In the real game Talion held off the forces of darkness in Mordor and himself for decades I believe it’s 30 years or more. but in this disgusting excuse for a DLC. he held he off for less than 24 hours. making his sacrifice in vain. she greatly speed up the process. another reason to hate The traitor
@@amirhaikal6672they’re implying that Talion … “descent” from grace was rather forced upon, not of his own will or decisions. He burdened himself for decades to fight off mordor to buy the people of Middle Earth time. His fall to succumbing to his ring and the Nazgûl was an inevitability. Hence a “push” (ie an an exterior force) led to said downfall
@@razagan1343 Ah, but Celebrimbor coerced Eltariel into taking the New Ring in the first place. Besides, giving Talion that ring would've ultimately corrupted him just like the Nazgul ring did
@@ybfromoblock3381 I think it's bad since Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War Talion feel like different people. The first one would probably just accept death in Gorgoroth and move on to his family, the second guy however... Why'd he even release Isildur from undeath? Since when a guy who probably made the worst mistake in Middle-Earths is deserving forgiveness?
@@einfachignorieren6156, Isildur isnt bad in movies and games. He is a man seduced by the one ring. Boromir,Frodo,Sam,Gollum, Galadriel...all were seduced by that evil ring. Isildur was a good king with human flaws.
In mine, this was a moment where he slipped his control, understandable since this woman stabbed him in the back with the thing that was keeping him alive lol but after being killed by her, he cames back to his senses when he rises again, keeping a tighter lid on the jar this time around, working hard for decades until he fell for real.
Yeah, it's a jarring plothole. They could've just adressed it like: "Talion is already corrupted too much to wear the Pure Ring without corrupting it too."
@@monkeycat6408 Yeah and/or they could have made it clear that even if Eltariel was willing to give up the New Ring, Talion wasn't going to stop wearing his Nazgul ring. He would have just worn both, rationalising it as a required power boost, and believing that the New Ring would offset Sauron's corruption from the Nazgul ring, which would guarantee that eventually, he would willingly hand the New Ring over to Sauron.
Eltariel was a typical elf, never admitting her own fault. Maybe if she had been more humble, owned up to her betrayal and appealed to Talions heart the bitterness inside of him might not have opened the door to Sauron.
Also, she spent the entire game not trusting Celebrimbor and his ring, but the second he offers it to her she puts it on without hesitation and leaves Tailon for dead even though he was doing far more to stop Sauron. And She and Celebrimbor failed to stop Sauron, tries to kill Tailon again while he is still doing everything in his power to hold Sauron back for sixty years (which by the way, why did it take her so long to get to Tailon). Seriously, this is why I love dwarfs, most of them don’t do shit like this.
Everything he said about her is true. If she was so righteous, she would offer the New Ring in exchange for Isildur's Ring. Make no mistake; Talion is both hero and victim here. Eltariel is selfish and has no true care for this man.
Talion was just too weak to resist the power of the ring, btw he was dead a loooong time ago, this could have been his last duty (but weak in the end - like Frodo)
@@janmoravek820 He spent over 50 years alone with the Ring whispering on his mind, worsening his already declining sanity and feeding his bitterness and depression. The man was stronger then you might consider. Especially since he was using a ring supposed to control humans, AND he was right in Sauron's turf.
@@justabraziliandragonborn3642 And he was MAN, a HUMAN, one of the most vulnerable races to the corruption of the ring. Like, shit, Talion is a fucking badass.
@@mateoleisbravo5991and I think I know how he resisted the rings influence because he had a strong will to protect others and he give his life and the only he falled was Eltariel because she remained him what she and Celebrimbor did to him and that's why he broke
Yea there’s no reasoning or sense behind her words. He truly fought that war alone. Even though it goes against what he thinks about it. “Celebrimbor’s lust for power clouded his vision. And yet I miss him. No war should be fought alone.”
But eltariel said “I’m sorry this is the only way”. Also technically Talion wasn’t supposed to be a nazgul it’s shelobs fault she messed with the future by showing Talion.
There's a line for when a plot point is so awful that the fans just collectively agree it didn't happen no matter what the creators say. The entire Galadriel DLC rockets past the line and keeps going. Shadow of War is my favorite game of all time and I won't let the elf propaganda ruin it for me.
Although I view the elf in the wrong this cut scene almost makes it. I love this fall from grace, it shows how the ring grabs onto those negative emotions and amplifies them until it can take over
Think of it as two separate timelines. The Talion from the main game’s ending held off the hordes of Mordor and the rings influence for decades before succumbing. In the BoG dlc here he just gives in to his anger and bitterness from the betrayal almost immediately after interacting with Eltariel. To me it’s a completely different narrative. So it’s up to you the player which you prefer more and which is your head canon. As far as I’m concerned he never saw Eltariel again after her betrayal, to me the main game is canon and as Shelob narrated at the end he fought his war for decades. It’s not like there’ll be a third game anytime soon or ever. The devs that made these two middle earth games have decided to take their nemesis system into some new Wonder Woman game. Kind of random if you ask me. But hey, maybe it’ll be good. The only reason I even remotely enjoyed this DLC was to play as Eltariel and break up the monotony with a unique and different combat style. I actually like her fluid and graceful elf dual wielding combat style. And the DLC is for those who strictly want to play the game hunting orc captains instead having to consider branding them etc. The Baranor DLC is just to give you a challenge and something new. You only have one life, and there’s a score system, to see if you can beat your own score. It’s more a speed record thing, if that’s your vibe, plus the unique new mechanics. But each is their own separate game, with its own canon. Talion’s timeline. Eltariel’s timeline, and Baranor’s timeline. Notice at the end of Baranor’s game, him and Serka the leader of the mercenaries destroy Lithlad’s fort so no one can ever use it again. There’s no reference to that in Talion’s main game. You can play in Lithlad normally like in any other map and conquer or defend the fort like normal. So,.....to me it’s like a multiverse thing. Each playable character’s arc is its own seowrarev timeline/universe. Create you’re own canon with each as you play. Or “role play”.
@@Cr1ms0nRav3n I think it could work if Eltariel's DLC happened barely before Hobbit or maybe even the Lord of the Rings (although, it's kinda weird cause the games are sort of based on the movies, not entirely on books) I'm pretty sure devs themselves said that Talion died when the One Ring was casted into the fires of Mount Doom, then and there Talion finally got his peace (although, doesn't really work with Celebrimbor and Sauron fighting for control)
It's funny that the brutish and disgusting orcs have been the ones there for Talion more than any other character, some of them do betray him but there are ones that will save him during moments of death.
And on top of it all, there's the rare few orcs that die in combat only to cheat death and CONTINUE to serve Talion. The orcs, for as vile and disgusting as they are, were the best and most supportive characters in the whole game.
… Oh god I just realized that throughout the entire game. The forces of Sauron were more friends to Talion than Celebrimbor or Eltarel ever were. Yes they were trying to kill him. But they also helped him while they were killing him. Even gave him a chance to continue fighting after being backstabbed and welcomed him with open arms once he was tired from all the fighting. Yes they did kill him a billion times. But all of those deaths were stabs at the front.
@@AysaMetricI know it’s a year later but becoming a Nazgul kinda symbolizes death since they are literally just vessels it wouldn’t be talion anymore basically just a body controlled by the witchking of him losing his will is basically him dying
If she just gave him the ring of power he wouldnt have to die or become a Nazgul after all the game and as we know very well from the entrance scene where Shelob unbonds Celebrimbor from Talion then Talion is fine with just wearing the ring of power. In simple words she could just give him her ring any time and save him but no she was too blinded by power and didnt. So in the end Talion wasnt the one who got corrupted by power Eltariel was
Both Talion and Elatriel would've been corrupted eventually. Eltariel faltered from her mission already due to seeking power and going against Sauron instead of the Nazgul. She did this because she thought she had the power. The New Ring already corrupted her. Talion was corrupted slowly once his mission started to falter and he got betrayed. In the end Talion is just a human and will eventually get corrupted. They never should've created another ring of power, but that's not what Celebrimor wanted. Talion's time was running out either way. Still don't like the idea that Celebrimor is able to hold his own against Sauron. Celebrimor should've been absorbed by Sauron.
@@johnbishop9621 that aint even the point Talion while having isildurs ring held back Sauron for 60-80 years he did that by as he says in his quotes keeping the balance in mordor betwen Minas Morgul and Bara dur he fought the armies of sauron and the nazgul while also fighting isildurs ring which was constantly trying to take hold of him. Now imagine if she just gave him the New ring which as we know is pure and stronger, if that happened then Talion would have been able to hold mordor even longer by the events of lotr Talion would have been still around bein a major help for our heroes arguably same scale as Gandalf, due to his position and political power in mordor. All this could have happened if she had just given him the ring which she didnt even need bu I understand that for the universe to make sence Talion and celebrimbor had to be eliminated from the story I just dont like how they did it the writting of this scene is just bad it did Talion so wrong
@@NiCoNiCoNiCola Helping him, and being forced to help him. otherwise decapitation, are two different things They didnt wanna help him in the first place, they were brainwashed to, that doesnt make them allies, it makes them slaves
In the real game Talion held off the forces of darkness in Mordor and himself for decades I believe it’s 30 years or more. but in this disgusting excuse for a DLC. he held he off for less than 24 hours. making his sacrifice in vain. she greatly speed up the process. another reason to hate The traitor
im pretty sure she left and came back decades later, its why he says he's fought the war alone. The game doesnt really do a good job of showing the passage of time
@@ErdnußRiegel6969Makes you wonder, if this whole time Minas Ithil was under allied occupation, where the heck was gondor? I mean in 70 Years would not somebody try to reestablish a garrison at one of your most important cities, which even holds a palantir. In the lore the siege was sudden, because cirith ungol was taken by betrayal. And after falling, Gondor was not able to retake the city. But in this timeline Talion holds off mordor, giving Gondor enough breathing room to reestablish defenses and bolster the citys garrison.
Everything about Eltariel shows she's a complete narcissist. She can never be in the wrong. Even when faced with the objective reality of the shittiness of her actions, she denies it outright.
I feel like there really was a chance Talion could've pushed past this brief moment of vulnerability and kept going like he had before, but then that bitch had the gall to bring up "betrayal" which immediately pushed him over the edge and made him into a Naz-gûl.
1:25 really puts it into perspective how hard that moment hurt him without needing context. In the beginning, Talion lost everything. His wife, his son, his friends at the black gate, even his own life. But then came Celebrimbor, crawling out of hell to curse him with immortality and force him to work for him. Then what did he get after all was said and done? Death… at the worst possible time for him to be granted his release. At the front door of Sauron, ready to rid the world of him. By the same spirit who damned him and his elf associate. He granted the one thing he wanted while simultaneously robbing his freedom to choose, the chance to fulfill his new wish when he was given a second chance at life, and the bond he thought he had with Celebrimbor. Simultaneously. Couldn’t even let him rest in peace rightfully. Only Sauron granted him that bit of comfort.
You know it’s messed up when the dark lord, nazgul and a cowardly orc are more loyal to you than an elf spirit who you have fought beside for years and an elf with the power of a flashlight sent by Galadriel
All she had to do was give HIS ring back and he would have continued fighting until Sauron was destroyed. But noooo! She was just as corrupted as the rest were.
They say man have weak willpower but look at talion he fought against Sauron and the curse of isuldurs ring for 25 years before he finally fell to its power. No other man or living thing in middle earth showed that resilience and will
Be a weak, nearly useless against non regular humans ghost? Movies may have showed us Nazgul as badass rignwraiths, but they're actually pretty weak. Hell, all of them except for Talion and maybe the Witch King are weak in sunlight
What do you mean? Is it because there are no drakes in minas morgul? He definitely rode it from the other area like nurnen. And not to mention he has the ability to summon a drake
@@coolraptor16 I haven't played the game in a long time so I forgot about not being able to use drake in minas morgul. But yeah my first point about him riding it from a different location still stands
I lost all respect for Eltariel and especially Celebrimbor when they betrayed Talion. In the end though, Talion had made the right decisions, if not for his sacrifices over the years, Middle Earth wouldn't have survived long enough for the ring to reach The Fellowship and after all was said and done, he finally got the peaceful afterlife with his family that he deserved.
It would still be nice if we could get a nazgul talion vs celembrimbor It would be nice if we would play as nazgul talion I mean he atleast deserves revenge He was trying to be merciful to Isildur whilst cel was trying to imprison him I mean I guess isildur was trying to enslave mordor but I don’t really remember Can someone else explain a better story I still feel talion deserves his revenge against celembrimbor
Both Talion and Celebrimbor were right in their own way. Both let emotions take hold of them. If Celebrimbor let Talion kill Sauron's physical form, then they both could dominate the energy left of the Dark Lord and afterwards dominate the entire Mordor and rule it with an iron hand. Obviously a better ending couldn't happen without breaking the canonicity of Lord of the Rings book
That shows just how Orcs and ESPECIALLY RATBAG where to most trustworthy Guys in the Game like yea some betray you but like my Bodyguard saved my life already 11 Times so Orcs are the most trustworthy in thr Game what i kinda find insane
I was kinda bummed when I saw the objective "Defeat Sauron" and to be not able to fight as Talion and Celebrimnor as one, and I straight up got fed up and uninstalled the game after seeing the objective "Defeat Talion" no I can't bring myself to do that.
Many years later at 1 am i question myself why she didn't just offer talion back his old ring. I know he would probably refuse because he has already fallen under the rings curse for to long but she could have at least tried.
IMO Eltariel should have been the one to die at the end of this DLC. Pointless to have her around as she's not a character in the main LOTR universe whatsoever. Really hated this character
I hate how Devs prefer to think that Talion is one of the Nazgul in Shire and also was one of the Nazgul at the Black Gates. Excuse me, but Talion solos all ringwraiths, can solo a lot of orcs and probably would burn down the One Ring himself if he was a ringwraith hunting down Frodo. Hell, it Celebrimbor didn't leave him Sauron's physical body would be killed and his ghostly remnants dominated, but since all Elves (except probably Legolas) suffer from permanent brain damage that didn't happen
Alternate theory: The Talion we play who uses all those moves is a complex person, able to think and adapt to situations in unusual ways. The Nazgul are basically puppets of Sauron, manifestations of his reach and will. The people they were are no more, the bodies the use, the voices they speak with, the things they tell of... all a mockery, a twisted echo of already broken minds. Nazgul Talion isn't as powerful because he's spent years being stripped of basically everything he was. This reduces him to being about on par with all the other Nazgul. Something else to note is that in places like the Shire, the Nazgul are far from the evil and the sorcery of mordor. Could it he that the distance is so great they have no access to their more... devastating powers?
Ah yes, the moment after Talion not only lost everything but was betrayed by not one, but two of his allies in the span of a few minutes and left him to die with little to no reason to then forced him to wear the Nazgul Ring just to stay "alive", making him fall further into darkness
Alot of people are saying why didn’t she give him her ring? 2 answers 1: Talion wanted to die and Eltariel trusted him to take off his ring. If she didn’t she would have killed him in mordor, but no he honored his request to die in Gondor which ultimately led to his downfall. 2: She lost two fingers on her right hand which contains the light of Galadriel. Meaning she probably couldn’t use it and lets be honest losing two fingers just to prolongs a mans life who is ready to die isn’t necessarily forthcoming
But she could have given him the new ring led him to Minas Morgul then killed him at his request before taking the new ring back to continue fighting the orcs/Nazgul/Sauron. Doing this would have allowed her to keep using the light of Galadriel, not have Talion fall, and let him die on his own terms.
@@backupaccount6341 yes but she would bleeding and in pain like the whole time they would travel to minas morgul and that’s a long way. Wouldn’t be a very fun trip
@@mrhappeh6067 She could cover the wounds to limit the bleeding and yes it would be a very long and painful trip but she wouldn't have to deal with Nazgul Talion and would have given him the death he wanted. (and after everything that she and Celebrimbor put him through I think she could handle it)
@@backupaccount6341 But middle earth isn’t very advanced when it comes to wounds like that so it may not limit the bleeding that much, besides we all know Talion is a legend if we had not known he turned evil we would probably assume he’d be ok. And put yourself in Eltariels shoes would you really be willing to ride that whole trip to Minas Morgul bleeding and in immense pain
Seeing a lot of people insist this isn't canon because it doesn't fit with Talion, but its very easy to accept this as Canon while still fitting. He fights his war for decades. Finally, Eterial shows up and the dlc happens, and after all that reminder of what happened, all those years of it whispering in his head, he finally gets "gotten" so to speak. It wore him down. I really don't see how this doesn't work.
The problem with games with their own character protagonist is that players see them as an extension of themselves, not as a separate character. Also don't get how people don't consider this canon when it fits and actually caps off what Talion really felt about the betrayal.
1:25 "You took everything from me.. you and Celebrimbor" ... ye, but considering he was deadman long time ago if wasnt for celebrimbor at Black Gate when he was killed... he forgot that somehow :D
Cel still abandoned talion in his thirst for power el left talion to die Talion wanted to die on his own terms not bleeding out on some godforsaken bridge Cel was using talion for his own (s)elfish means oh and also they were bound together by the black bois
@@thechicken1108 cause there were a mission to take... and btw again... Talion died already on Black Gate so if he wanted to be so much with his family - his mission was already done - somebody more capable took it
@@thechicken1108 yes, but didn't Talion motivate Celebrimbor to fight Sauron at the end ot Shadow of Mordor? Our not so Bright Lord kinda gave up after defeating Black Hand
imagine playing as talion for 99 percent of the game only to kill him. Literally what were they thinking. They should have allowed you to play him and destroy all of them haha. Th at would have been sick.
Because she do not trust him fully after what he choose ever since betrayed by Celebrimbor and since Elthariel follow orders from Galadriel she must’ve having complications
It was a disappointing finale, I have to say. Celebrimbor and Sauron fused together in a battle of minds lasting forever - that was genius. It's a good explanation why the dark forces in LotR often behave so stupidly even though "the wise" constantly tell everyone how crafty Sauron is. But Talion deserved better...
Can anybody tell me what is going on, I beat the game but I still don’t know the lore about this game I heard that its a spinoff from lord of the rings.
