Does not ah???? Well, when we had killed 2 million of German Civilians at a loss of ZERO American ones in order to destroy the Nazi Regime ,does that correlate to you? When Red Army had stormed Berlin and was destroying all that moved with its Artillery Fire and Katiusha Salvos , killing tens of thousands German civilians in the process --were there people like you today , telling them : "stop , you killing German children " ?? or every body were just pushing them on - finish the Bastard State ? Use some basic thinking , not your bias against Jewish people that you been condition to have with bullshit lies over 2000 years if you re in Christian world and 1400 years if you re in Muslim world.
We are our guys and they are their guys. When it comes to survival or high threat incidents, good guy bad guy gets blurred. Are you going to be a good guy to someone holding a gun to your child's head if you get 1 moment of opportunity? Now put that perspective across a broad region.
And where is the error? Bunch of Muslims trying to kill the same group of people. This people fight back because they want to live. Very very simple. You probably can't understand that cause you also lives in a good and safe country.
A man who presents war as something good or necessary and laments over the fact that the world is moving away from that is sick. Especially if he never experienced it himself. I am from Bosnia, half of my family was killed in Srebrenica and trust me, there is nothing and no reason that anyone needs war in any way. You only have People who were not affected by it later justifying how it was somehow needed. Absolutely wrong way of thinking in every way.
you sound ignorant you said all that but didn't come up with a solution but what the innocents killed on october 7 that started this whole debate? he never glorified anything it's no wonder why the world is the way it is because people like you weak minded and can't help anything just see hear and the complain
So how do you oppose people who want to slaughter you? Just keep running away? How is that an option for the whole nation? What should Israelis do? Most of them lived in Arab countries before Israel was created. Should they go back to Bagdad, Tripolis, Aleppo, Cairo.... etc??? Nobody would let them back in. What do you suggest should be done if Hamas takes over "from the river to the sea" with 7 million Jewish refugees? Should they allow themselves to be slaughtered? How many are you willing to take into your home? It's great to talk in abstract, but Israelis have nowhere to go.
@@AdamSmithChill The only proper way of thinking is the one where war is seen for what it is, as the absolute worst of human behavior. It should never be justified in any way as that way of thinking leads to more war.
@@brianmay7111 ok so if your country is attacked or even invaded what would your response be? hand over your wife and daughter to them? beg them not to hurt you?
Same. Joe comparing Mexican gangs to Hamas. Mexican gangs would never be as motivated as Hamas to slaughter civilians because Hamas conflict is about RELIGION not MONEY. Hamas has religious reasons for hating and wanting to kill Jews
"Unprecedented" in the sense that this conflict is the first with a number of excellent first hand coverage, not just from media but mostly from civilians on the ground. Also, the open debates between the sides on social media is also a first. I think that's what was meant, just my opinion though.
@@burdawg3000 where? are bitching about russia and ukraine? what about armenian christian's being killed over land by azerbaijani muslims? lol you guys are the delusional people his talking about
Jews have been living in that area literally thousands of years before Islam, or Arabs were even a concept. How far back do you want to go before you say this is the starting point? History didn't start on October 7th, or 1948, or 1917, or 1840, or 1831, or 1516.
This obtuse argument is insane. Killing innocent people will never be ok. War zone or no war zone. Mowing down people gathering flour for bread is not an excuse for mass execution.
@@georgiadawgs8260 without civilians casualties you can't, but theres a scale, that makes it an acceptable military target, say there's 2 militants to one civilian, or even a 1 to one ratio, those are acceptable numbers on the international level, but 300 civilians to one possible militant isnt,
Classic anti-Israeli non sequitur. He is talking about young western ignoramuses who support Hamas because they are "oppressed". They aren't. If they used the billions in aid money the west has sent them for anything other than making their leaders in Qatar billionaires and bombs, they could be a flourishing people. But they aren't and they are two b*tch made to admit it's their own fault.
@5dollarshake263 planning on addressing any of them? Or should the free world never wage war against people who put their military HQ underneath their own hospitals? 🏥
Ah, the good old Western propaganda on the JRE. "Britain had to make a decision to go fight the Nazis"..... he simply "forgot" to mention who actually ENDED the war. THE SOVIETS. To the UK and the US, war means business, and profits, the longer a war lasts, the better for the billionaires running the show. By the way, the only country that is still legally allowed to rally out in public, flying a swastika flag is the United States, everywhere else on the planet, it's illegal. In early 1945, Allied troops entered Germany. By mid-April, the SOVIETS had encircled the German capital of Berlin. On April 30, 1945, Adolf Hitler killed himself. The German armed forces surrendered unconditionally in the west on May 7 and in the east on May 9, 1945, bringing an end to World War II in Europe. You're welcome, Britain.
It’s become a Trend where people just support hamas and Palestine without thinking. Both sides have their faults, with Israel being the main aggressor but don’t think for one minute that hamas are the good guys. They’re benefitting from this conflict
@@figsy69 yep he is absolutely not a clown in any way shape or form. i guess he just doesnt say what the op wants him to say so therfore starts name calling like a perpetual child. i would argue @farhada6488 is the clown here. A total NOBODY in a comment section if you will
It's pretty bold to keep asking the question of what is "morally" right, yet still implying the answer is: "killing innocent civilians is a means to an end."
Your ignorance about war, the history of war, and the laws of war, is just proof of the total failure of the educational system. I don't hold that against you. What I do hold against you is offering an opinion about something about which you know nothing.
@josejaquez4100 You really naive if you think it is about territory and not ideology. Look at the map and find the river and the sea and see for yourself what territory they want.
@@nerolia7986They need to come to an agreement some way or another, killing off an entire race doesn’t seem very logical, but Israel is trying to anyways
Excuse me, as a European, my great grandfather did not shove any Jew into any oven. Be specific about who did that and maybe those people should offer part of their state to the Jewish people.
Calls Hamas a barbaric army because they stab and kill civilians then proceeds to defend Israel for bombing and killing civilians because “that’s just war, innit?”
Meh, not really comparable tbh. One is personal, and without warning; the other is impersonal and directed specifically at soldiers, soldiers that choose to hide in areas populated by innocent lives. Weird how they went south with the flow of civilians instead of staying in an area where they know THEIR PEOPLE wouldn't be, but so is an extremist death cult, idolizing being "martyred" and hoping their civilians will feel the same.
Well Hamas did it because they hate jews and want to exterminate them in any gruesome manner. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and Israel actions is to get rid of a terrorist ruled state. I don't like that Israel is bombing like crazy but I myself know nothing of war so I wouldn't know any other alternative. I think letting Hamas continue like nothing happened is the biggest mistake and its signalling that they have a very effective tactic of making themselves untouchable
One of the big questions to ask is "Do the Palestinians know who among them is Hamas?" if so can we call them completely innocent? And what moral responsibility do they owe, at least to themselves for their own safety?
Dude definitely expected Joe to just fold on him and agree. It's not ok to kill innocent people, it doesn't matter how many words you use to explain it, how much it was done in the past, or whose homeland you're attempting to establish.
He didn't say killing innocent people is "ok". He said the deaths of innocent people is unfortunately unavoidable in war. Especially when their own government is using them as Human Shields, building bunkers under their homes, fighting out of uniform, and firing from behind them.
@@dshappir watch it again man. Joe makes a point that he wouldn't be ok with "unavoidable" deaths if they were Jewish. Bombing a hospital is not "unavoidable".
The discussion in this war is absurd. First. Israel acted selflessly to live in peace with the Palestinians in Gaza. It was more than a decade ago when Israel itself ordered Israeli citizens who had lived there for decades to literally leave their homes. The first thing the Palestinians did in return was to elect a government that enshrined the goal of destroying Israel in the constitution. The elected government followed through with its promise. Since its founding, thousands of rockets have flown into Israeli settlement areas. Dozens of civilians died in terrorist attacks. Millions of aid funds - intended for civilian institutions - were misused to sponsor this terrorism. October 7th was just what Humus had been doing for years. Secondly. Israel behaved more humanely in this conflict than any other conceivable party in any imaginable conflict. It allowed Palestinians to work in Israel, receive medical care or even migrate to Israel. During war, they warn civilians where their military is operating. They admit collateral damage and apologize for it. The situation is clear. In no other conflict the responsibility for the suffering has been so one sided and clear - in no other conflict have the perpetrators been held accountable so weakly. People with voice and power who claim to reject war and the nature of war have a duty to unequivocally name the culprit of this war and do everything in their power to eliminate them. Everything else is responsibility for the resulting suffering and is as history has proved continuing this madness.
@@jankaufmann4305 yeah cause humus are literally a death cult that see pally deaths as heroism even for kids, they don't care about their own lives let alone pally people, all they wanna do is keep doing oct7ths and even at larger scales if they could, up to the ultimate scale. yet millions in the west march and protest for them =)) the post-truth society is a wild place
genocide isn’t a immediate thing. What is this take? lol actually mind blowing. Obviously there would be backlash from the nations in the world so they need to attempt to justify it.. which they did in the following weeks oct 7. Facts: Right now in gaza there is unmarked mass graves filled with all sorts of people.. Including women and kids and people with little to no military/gov connection, How can that be justified?
Sure 75 years ago and every freakin year after that. Your colonialist mindset will not let you see that. You can’t just get away with it. Call them whatever you like, they have every right whatsoever to rise up against the people oppressing and occupying them
@@beetalius He just leaves out the fact that Israel violently removed some 750,000 Palestinians from their land in 1948 and has persecuted them since. Tries to make it sound like it's all just a matter of hating Joos. And then simply denies their current war crimes that the whole world can see.
Nah it was more like not wanting innocent civilians to be killed over and over and over again. Whereas they take out Hamas now and it should be over unless palestine attacks again
This british clown is making money of the killing of children, in one way or another. Strange joe keeps having these guys on, but none of the voices who are against whats happening
Wow... tell that to the rest of the Middle East who look at Palestinians as peasants! Israel has been kinder to them over the years than the fellow Arabs! You know Israel employed Gazans and gave them medical care? Water and electricity? Did you know the other Arab neighbors look down on Gazans and would never do the same?
Im just sayin ... if its a war they should b allowed to call on and have support from there allies...... but its not ... its a mass murder and 1 big landgrab More terrorists were made after Israel invaded gaza alllll d years of the occupation
There are striking back every day, this is why it's called a war. Tit for tat. But Israel has taken this war back to Gaza, so this why you don't hear much about how this war is happening.
No kidding. I've never seen anything so evil. We are seeing children being killed and amputated every day, most with no anesthetics. They are an Apartheid State. The idf is full of shit. Lies, lies, lies.
His argument is that the western view has never had to experience conflict so we don’t understand but I feel like all the years of war tearing down and building back up so we can build a future where we don’t have. I’m sorry if I’m missing something.
Sorry man you had to be put through that I tried to join the military at 19 but I had a withdrawal Caesar from alcohol from bad choices I wanted to be a fighter pilot and fly f-16s and if I couldn't fly them I wanted to fly the f-15 strike eagle thank you for your service❤❤❤❤
See Dresden, WWII. Civilian deaths are always terrible, but this war was started by an action of terror by Hamas, whose strategy is always using civilian human shields. Why did they never build bomb shelters for their people in 15 years? They were receiving billions in aid.
@littlecatfeet9064 you do realize that Dresden was condemned by the allies and why international law was created...at this point why even discuss war crimes?
The most ironic part of this whole dialogue was when he talks about "just" causes for wars and mentions populations fighting against "colonialism" He doesn't even realize.....
As a Irishman watching this, it doesn't surprise me. he gives a complete green light to the Zionist regime. Prick makes me sick, just like black and tans
The amount of factual selectivity makes me wanna throw up. Maybe just start with the fact that Israel is in a apartheid state? As deemed by nearly every human rights group out there. INCLUDING THOSES IN ISRAEL
A moral judgment call is not easy in war. Innocent people do die, tragic as it is. War strategists, though immoral as they are portrayed by many, must often decide to what extent a campaign must go. Is it for the betterment of mankind or just selfish immoral psychopathic worthless endeavors.
Listening to your logic is unsetlling. You: "Look Israel I know that for 70 years the Palestinian government has supported, funded, and taught terrorists who rape, murder, and kill Jews simply because they are Jews, but you should just lay down and take it. I mean look, even though we are rewarding terrorists by refusing to kill them if they hide behind their own familie's lives, not to mention allowing them to repeat more attacks on your own women and children in the future, it's still wrong to try to kill them." The inverted morality is shocking to see.
“Innocent people do not deserve to die” When Hamas says they will conduct October 7 attacks again and again, that is exactly what Israel is trying to prevent. Why can’t you see that if you don’t want endless innocent deaths year after year ?
Yeah, that paid Al Jazeera mouthpiece who can vomit lies with a straight face who openly admits that she doesn`t even know really what happened on Oct. 7, but that does not prevent her from parroting the lies to accuse Israel of every imaginable crime. What a waste of human life
@@chivomartinez If you read history, after the Islamic conquest, Spain became one of the richest countries, and Christians, Muslims, and Jews lived in luxury until the Crusades came. Which carried out massacres against Jews, Muslims, and opposing Christians. If what you are saying is true, the Spaniards would still hate Muslims, but anyone who reads history knows that the largest massacres in Spain were at the hands of campaigns Crusader
@@theearthisntflat5863Jews did NOT live in luxury under Spanish rule...ever heard of the Inquisition?! Literally one of the biggest forms of persecution against the Jewish people happened under Spanish & Portuguese rule in the 14/1500s...Jews were almost never living in great conditions...something gentiles generally agreed on across the board historically was that they hated Jewish people. Muslims 🫱🏻🫲🏼Christians 🫱🏻🫲🏼Catholics🫱🏻🫲🏼Pagans all hated Jews historically speaking..
"Do we defend ourselves against this seige of antisemites?" Uhm, Palestinians are also semitic people. This guy is literally suffocating us with his ignorance.
And even if you accept "antisemitism" meaning anti-Jew, he leaves out the part where Israel stole the land they're on and has persecuted Palestinians for 75+ years. What a complete tool.
@@dudebro91-fn7rz Of course my previous comment (not to you) got removed. But even if we go with antisemitism meaning anti joo, this guy completely ignores the history of is ray el land theft and persecution of the people who had lived there for hundreds of years.
@ShalomReza Look up the dictionary definition of antisemitism before you continue To make yourself look even dumber. I'm trying to do you a favor here.
Sometimes you got to do terrible things to survive. That is life. a lot of people in the comments dont understand this about life but their children will.
He's out of his mind. US is the big dog with all the money and weapons. We should control Israel not the other way around. Why the US hasn't told them to stop the genocide is a question we all deserve an answer to? Why are we letting our little bitch in the middle east cause all this trouble?
I have a psychological issues . I struggle to get over it and I work hard on it. But I can tell you , when I lie, I literally don’t feel any problem. It comes so normal. The lie detector doesn’t now sense a thing . I tried it . These guys like this.
You have to invite the israeli historian Ilan Pappe or the american political science professor John Mearsheimer in order to understand the myths about Israel that this guys is spreading
Not once does he call the truly affected civilians as they are. They are Palestinians, they have been ethnically cleansed for 75 years, they have have been killed in the tens of thousands, they are children of refugees, and are under occupation.
“They need their own country because of what we (Europe) did to them 80 years ago.” Very good point. But then why not give them land in Europe? Why use them to displace a population of people (who had nothing to do with the terrible things that were done to the Jewish people) who have lived on a land for generations and then act surprised when those displaced people don’t want to give up their rights to their land. That is where the problem and conflict started. Not Oct 7.
Jewish people are INDIGENOUS to the LAND OF ISRAEL according to *ALL* archeological, anthropological, genetic, biological, & verbal evidence. Even during the Diaspora, there has *always* remained a steady Jewish presence in that land...Palestine isnt even an Arabic word, it was renamed Judea-Palestina by the ROMANS when they conquered the area, & since then there has *never been* an independent country named Palestine ever (the Arabic language doesn't even have the letter P). Just bec European Jews have adapted European looks (biological adaptation 101 btw) bec they migrated there centuries ago after being expelled by the Romans etc, that doesn't negate anything. Besides, what about all the ethnic Sefardi Jews that arent European?! You know the ~850k that were ethnically cleansed from Arab countries? Ahhhh so conveniently forgotten about eh? 🤨🤨...so why should Jewish people be "given" a Homeland anywhere but where they've already been residing for thousands of years?
What did Europe do? It was only after several major Israeli terror attacks against the British did they pull out of the mandate and gave it back to the U.N. General Assembly. On 29 November 1947 the UN General Assembly voted on the partition plan, ADAOPTED BY 33 VOTES TO 13 with 10 abstentions. The Jewish side accepted the UN plan for the establishment of two states. The Arabs rejected it and launched a war of annihilation against the Jewish state.
@@melbialo4919 Yes, Jewish people of Arab descent have lived in Palestine forever, and peacefully coexisted with other Arabs of different faiths (Muslims and Christians). Regardless of what you choose to call the land, the conflicts, which continue to this day and have only become bloodier over time, began after Western nations chose to declare the state of Israel on that land and displace the indigenous people with Europeans. Even Palestinian Jews in the Westbank are not treated the same as Israeli Jews. You don’t have to agree with me, but at some point we all have to acknowledge the truth. I don’t believe in the slaughter of any people, regardless of what they believe or where they come from. God gave us life and placed us here on Earth to live in peace. We are the ones who have chosen to make war with one another instead.
@@bodasactra I was quoting Brendan O’Neill, hence the quotation marks around the statement. And he was referencing the atrocities committed by the Nazis during the Holocaust.
@@FordeTough You agree with it. Israel was approved by the U.N. and created by the Jews themselves fighting off Arab coalition invasion they day they declared a state, its forged with Jewish blood. The Arab invasions displaced Muslims. Israel's constitution stated all were welcome and many stayed. Israel today has over 21% equal Muslim citizens, 2 million people. Muslim states cleansed all their Jews out of spite.
The problem with trying to win a moral argument about war is that morals are just words. In the real world good and bad do not exist, only perceptions of things that are beneficial or harmful to oneself and people. The only thing that matters about war is winning it for your side. And if the threat is existential in nature, meaning your own and your people’s existence is at stake, then you have no choice but to do everything possible to win. And both sides have that idea. For them, it is correct and the other side is wrong. There is no winning a moral argument.
Very fascinating to me that he brings up that the Iraq war was started under false pretenses and that it was wrong right after spouting out propaganda hasbara IDF talking points.
Oh Israel is just supposed to stop, this isnt a game, If Hamas actually cared about their people they could surrender any time. But they dont for some reason.
@@gsp3428They can keep going. But need to cut it out with calling others terrorist when they are committing terroristic acts themselves. They are no longer the “good” guys
It is a war. Hamas represents the Palestinian vote. They voted for ppl who organized and did these atrocities to Israeli civilians. It is a declaration of war.
The West Bank is literally called Judah and Samaria for 3000 years, and all of the historic names of the ancient cities are in Hebrew. I think there might be a reason that’s the land they ended in…
@@ElishaZakaiwhat other people's would you find acceptable to uproot the current people and import people who lived there in antiquity? That's a genuine question.
you make it sound like "palestine" existed as a country, before 69 :D before westbank, it was Jordan, before Jordan it was the british, Before british it was egypt. Before egypt it was ottomans, before ottomans it was mamluks before mamluks it was Annubids, before annubids it was kingdom jerusalem, So what "before" are you talking about?
its simple really, if your sister were taken into gaza, wouldn't you support this to make them release her? if you lived near gaza, wouldn't you support this to ensure your children can live peacfully?
No, because murdering thousands of innocent children. Doesn't make you more safe. It actually puts you in a lot more danger from the tens of thousands of angry parents now looking for revenge at all cost
@@travispenner3048 ? Do you not read the IDF reports that ARE PUBLISHED BY THE IDF??? and are you trying to say thousands of ppl havnt died? lol cope more bud
The fact they are both overlooking is: despite Hamas being intrenched in the civilian population, Israel does not indiscriminately bomb Gaza. The IDF identifies targets and uses precision strikes. The destruction you see in Gaza is due to pretty much every neighborhood being filled with weapons, tunnels and launch facilities. Most of it gets cleared and destroyed while nobody is there. That’s also reflected in the low number of civilian casualties. Out of 30,000 casualties, 10,000 -15,000 are “innocent” civilians. If Israel didn’t care about civilians, they would’ve bombed the shit out of Gaza without sending in ground troops (or send them in after everything was flattened). One may also raise the question how innocent those civilians are. Let’s not forget that civilians betrayed Israelians who offered them work and help. They murdered, raped, looted and celebrated with Hamas. And what future do Palestinians have if they get raised to hate Israel and become murderers and terrorists.
Whether he did or didn't is utterly irrelevant he was highlighting just how ignorant this generation is because they've never had to fight for anything they have
@@ianjones2731A man who presents war as something good and laments over the fact that the world is moving away from that is sick. Especially if he never experienced it himself. I am from Bosnia, half of my family was killed in Srebrenica and trust me, there is nothing and no reason that anyone needs war in any way. You only have People who were not affected by it later justifying how it was somehow needed. Absolutely wrong way of thinking in every way.
@ianjones2731 I'm an Iraq vet and am pro Palestine. Have I never fought for anything I have? I know the Iraq war was a sham job and bs propaganda spewed by my govt but isn't that the whole point we're missing here. The people we allow to stay in charge are ruining this world. Somehow we outnumber the establishment yet we continue to let this trash go on and these dip do's try to justify it. Maybe if a certain group of people hadn't stolen land from another group of people and then lock them within a fence and take away their basic human rights we wouldn't have all these problems.
This is NOT a war. The Palestinians do NOT have any military, no army, no soldiers no tanks, no jets, no bombs, no drones, etc, nothing to defend themselves with!! The other side is armed to the teeth from the No.1 military industrial complex in the world.
Have you been to war? That is the reality of war! That is part of war, you can't wage wars and be polite! That's why we should avoid war, and hamas started it!
@@waterbear1337 That is what happens between combatants . Not against unarmed civilians . You are calling war crimes . War Gazans are occupied people . They don’t have a sovereign state This is a genocide aided by USA
We dont know the true numbers . The death counts come from hamas. Probably greatly exaggerated. But yes israel doesn't care much about them anymore. And who can blame them at this point?
Funny to hear a Brit talking about no-one in the west having had a war when we have at least 4 generations of Irish people who grew up in the Troubles, which his country caused by Occupation
And getting worse. Mossad is full power right now with shutting down the protests and putting sheep like this guy in front of cameras. He says make a moral judgement, I don’t think he knows what morals are.
Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza than there are dead Palestinians during this conflict. Does that sound like a genocide? Or just maybe war is complex and sucks for everyone...
