The missile knows where it is at all times, it knows this because it knows where it isn't, by subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is...
Leme break it down for yall, ARH means the missile has its own radar set IOG means the missile can travel to the last known trajectory of the target and DL means the missile can communicate directly with the mothership, which allows it to relock targets instead of lose the transponder link and the missile blows up 1st scenario : when you launch a ARH missile and unlock the target, the missile will use IOG guidance to predict the location of the target, once the missile thinks its within 16km of the target it will activate its own radar set to look for the target, if it finds a target it will lock the target and fly towards it until it hits, 2nd scenario : you launch the missile with a radar lock, in this scenario the missile will use the aircraft radar and switch to its own radar once in range
What does IOG mean? Im not a jet player but thanks to phly saying what S/ARH, DL and the otherday from the Stream, TWS means, ive always been curious what thr acronyms stands for. Is it "Internal Ordnance Guidance?"
Hey Phly! This will be long, but I am trying to keep it brief. The ARH seekers don’t look for target reflections like a SARH missile. Even if you maintain lock on target, it’s still only using datalink to close to the target, then turning on its own radar (or it should, idk how gaijin is modeling it). DCS does not model the Husky mode of the AIM-120, so I am assuming Gaijin isn’t going to either. Before the missile goes Pitbull, it goes Husky. Basically the missile’s radar is searching for a head on target at long range (HIGH pulse repetition frequency or HPRF). It will use the datalink from the plane’s radar to select the correct target that it sees. Once it gets close enough, it switches to Pitbull (MEDIUM prf, or MPRF). This mode is better at following targets flying near perpendicular and closer range, so it locks the target with this mode. Thought someone else here might find that information interesting, as I did. The missile’s radar is on and looking before it locks, and never uses the radar returns from the plane to find the target, only datalink.
@@Doberman300yeah your explanation is just a little bit off, it does get the initial information via datalink, from the aircraft that is launching it. Then and only then after it's launched it can continue to be guided in via data link from either the original aircraft or an a-wax or given the new technology another aircraft such as the f-35. It can also be launched enamel called home on jam, where it will home in on the aircraft that is attempting to jam it
I agree with your sentiment on WWII and Cold War Era planes being relegated to their own battle rating. They are simply too much fun to be interfered with. Missle Thunder is a whole new game now.
For anyone who's confused, don't worry -- i got you. The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
I remember I was soloing my brother on DCS, he was using the F-15 and I was in the Su-27, he'd launch the AIM-120 out from 12-15km away and my early warning system didn't even beep once and I died
Mirage 2000 is my favorite delta of all time and I've spaded both tech tree variants, so the MICAs being added was something I anticipated and very well welcomed in.
@@liamoneal7643 Do you seriously think arms dealers were like "It's impossible to make missiles that can turn" and just gave up? It's not unrealistic at all lmao. Missile technology was never going to be hard locked at WW2 capabilities.
@Kraus- aim120s do not work like that. They can't pull turns like that. And only the most recent IR missiles sort of can if the series of events is perfect
BRING BACK PLAYER OPERATED DRONE ARTILLERY! (Day 13) You can play the BMP-3/BMD-4 if you are solo as the HE shell only goes 250m/s If your playing with Odd or others I beg of you to have one player in a drone, and the other in a Sturmtiger, as it would be hilarious to get a 3km kill with a sturmtiger rocket. The player operated artillery video you made ages ago has since been my favorite on the channel.
I've been saying similar Phly. Separate by eras now rather than just BR. WW2 and have a top tier there, Cold War with its own top tier, and Post Cold War/Modern
Not much will change. Top tier is still mostly at the deck, because multipathing is still a thing. This gives some extra options for BVR, because you can defeat the missile while yours is flying out and you dont have to maintain lock. Yeah the missiles can pull a lot, but R73, Magic 2s and Aim 9Ms can already pull quite a bit, its nothing new. These missiles will obviously hammer bad players, but if youre a decent player, not much is changing for you.
i remember a time when the developers would strike down any forum post about air to air missiles. one thing they refuse to budge on though, is a canadian or commonwealth tech tree.
Love to see knew long vids of earlier planes like P40 Warhawk , like go through early planes and tanks with better experience and explaining how you’ve learned to be better .
Please make more videos of low-tier aircraft. Modern jets armed with high-tech missiles make for boring content where the early planes from pre-WW2 to Korean War eras were all about deft maneuvering and gun accuracy.
Another comment to clarify the Chaff thing; Gaijin recent made chaff effective against Pulse Doppler (Despite that not exactly being a thing because, you know, speed differences). So chaff can defect any radar missile with the correct notching maneuvers.
@@Brzzzyexe Not really. Chaff is incredibly light, so it stops almost instantly and "hangs" in the air. Sometimes it is almost literally like a confetti.
This might be the most funny & entertaining first 1:50 of a phly daily video I’ve ever seen 😂 glad to see you’re back and enjoying making videos.( ps: the video with your child firing the rockets by accident is also great entertainment)
I believe if you dropped chaff and did some 180 degree "beaming" that might work. These missile track object that are moving toward or away from them because they track the speed difference-doppler effect. A lot of store door openers have a similar system. These advanced missiles must also detect objects in the air to foil using beaming as a defense The use of chaff will give them a stronger object other then you to lock on to after you start beaming. Try and see ..Beaming foils the first way they track you but not the second unless you use chaff. Police radar works on speed difference also. In the early days if you hit the brakes hard as your radar detector we off they wouldn't get your speed. Not anymore they are far too quick. Good luck Phil.
Not quite 180 degrees but you need to crank to the notch which is 90 degrees to the missile's heading. That way you are neither moving closer or further away from the missile relative to the terrain
I think it’s the seeker on the missile (ARH seeker) that is being affected by chaff causing the missile to miss so if you relook your target it should work like a normal SARH missile I doubt chaff affects internal guidance (IOG) nor the datalink (DL) to the aircraft…?
We are reaching a point where the devs have to decide between realism or making the game easier. Missiles are meant to be effective against planes, not fair to the enemy. Multipathing for example allows for unrealistic safety from all radar missiles just for balance but that means BVR is basically dead because players will prefer easier tactics and so everyone will be hugging the ground and that can lead to stale gameplay. They can also make for example air arcade easier and air realistic harder because they are extremely similar right now with jets.
Using terrain isn't OP in War Thunder. I've had my AIM54C kill people in the mountains hugging the ground. I've been killed in the same places by an AIM54 orbital striking me. You really need to put solid land mass between you and missiles. That being said, you can fight at high altitude with other players. You just need to accurately keep track of how close they are so you can defend these missiles at their max ranges. These missiles require an Enduring Confrentation game mode in air realistic so players can learn.
@@PyroBlonde7777 Hugging the ground in the mountains is different from hugging the ground on flat ground. Phoenixes will always miss the target at the right distance from the ground but if the target is too low, the explosion will still damage it. Phoenixes are more effective due to this reason so it doesn't mean that the new Fox 3s should be as effective.
@@ollilaine6763 hugging the ground in the mountains should make it much harder for the missiles to track compared to flat ground. I know what a proximity fuse is. I'm talking about getting domed directly by the missile. Yes, hugging the ground helps. Especially against fox 1s.
@@PyroBlonde7777 The missile tracks the target with a speedgate, ground clutter doesn't do anything except for the reflection from the ground with the same doppler shift. I've never seen anyone get hit directly with a Phoenix when under 100 meters from the ground. If you are at over 100 meters or at 10 meters, that of course happens.
9:33 on the SRAAM they dont have external control surfaces like traditional missiles thats why they fall off so hard when they run out of fuel. More modern thrust vectoring missiles (r-73,mica,9x) have both thrust vectoring nozzles and normal flight control surfaces. Look up on youtube for "AIM-9X icing test)
DCS/Vtol VR player here, you have a few options to defeat these missiles. 1. Go cold (Away from enemy mothership/Missile drop chaff and drag it into thicker air.) (You will need altitude & reduce quickly while doing small jinks to make it constantly adjust heading reducing maximum kinetic energy). 2. Notch mothership, drop chaff & high G maneuver at the very last second. (IRL typically bends airframe you need 12G's+ Barrel roll) 3. Use terrain & Radar Masking to hide & popup. (Flanker specialty) 4. Have a better Radar Cross-section to lock earlier & Be locked later. Cross-section (I.E F-22) Fun facts 1. Going head on & dropping chaff does nada to defeat ARH missiles.(You need to put chaff in-between you & the threat) 2. If you're within 20KM you're within Pitbull WEZ for the Aim-120's. If you get locked & Launched at this range you must fire off a amraam to break mothership lock & go defensive. While you're evading they're forced to go defensive also. This (Prevents closure for IR missiles.) Typically in this scenario whoever has higher altitude has an advantage as gravity & thinner air will give your missile higher kinetic potential & Distance. (Faster Mach due to thinner air & Gravity to accelerate). This patch will show who's truly skilled at modern A2A BVR & who isn't. (Looking at you R-27ER goomba's) SOL even with a higher Max G overload. It's all positioning & Flight mechanics at this point.
Two things need to be included in this patch. Or ASAP The ability to toggle flare/Chaff on or off when pressing counter measures. Enemy player nametags removed across the map in air-rb or it will be a disadvantage to the Ruskies. They have super maneuverable fighters compared to nato & won't be able to utilize it if they can't close the distance with stealth.
dcs player here... we got for alle eternity the aim 120c and also the r-77 ingame and they are extremely deadly... i said it prior to seeing this video since i knew it comes that they shout set a hard cap for br 12 planes that can take those missiles... they are on another lvl and the way to play with them is also in normal parameters different... you can fire those at 50miles distance and get a kill if you are above 35k feet and are around mach 0.95... most chances on kill range begins at 30 nm with an altitude of around 15000-20000ft... and you got a very high kill chance... if you get within the MR (minimum range and its defined for by the probability of defending the missile means inside the MR you are very very very very likely to die) you should get terrain and that quick... i think based on what im seeing is that they increased the effectiveness of chaff by 5000% or so normally at a range that close chaff is useless radars esspecially the ones in the f-15c or the f16c are too good to be fooled by the chaff... they are very strong at a range of like 25-35nm with a crank/notch you can defeat the radar so it looses lock and the 120c/r77 goes dumb... then you can re engage from a different angle so the missile doesnt decide to go "maddog" and just pitbull on to you as soon as it sees you (it most likely will on anything it sees means also friendlys)... thats how engagements in warthunder probably will be on the longterm higher and longer range so actuall bvr not the acm with radar guided missile cluster frick its right now
this is interesting, kind of means that the aim-7s still have a place as a way to counter chaff, as well as IR missiles having an advantage if the meta is running chaff
Huh, didn't think I could be less interested in top tier, but here we go. Can you prove the whole "Best jet players" thing and play the Class 3 P with fitting jet Anti-CAS?
Spamm ramms oh boy. I wonder how this compares to dcs. I sadly dont play dcd nor have top tier in WT but from watching dcs you can defeat fox 3 with some maneuvers and a mountain
@JamalWitherSpoon most people in War Thunder fly with World War II prop plane logic. They have a very basic understanding of radar missiles and they don't know how to avoid them. Using terrain and distance from the target will become essential. Large maps will also become important to maximize effective range and give players the best chance of outrunning or breaking missile lock.
I agree with keeping ww2 in a more or less bracket of it's own. though at around 1200bh and not really touching any modern tiers myself my opinions biased at best. still glade to have you back.
the amount of keybinds is getting kinda bad yeah, but it is not that hard to manage honestly. it seems like alot, but i can fit all my important binds for fiddling with my radar on 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 at the top of my keyboard, while reserving radar lock for X. when it comes to all the weapons, literally just bind 'fire primary weapons' to left mouse and 'fire secondary weapons' to one of the spare mouse buttons, unbind all other default keys for rockets, bombs, missiles etc and set tilde as your 'switch secondary weapons' and boom you have one button that can fire AAMs, drop bombs, shoot rockets etc. while maintaining your familiar control scheme really alot of it is just clearing the game defaults and making your own
I think chaff is not supposed to affect the radar on the plane but it confuses the missile reciever with mixed signals when it gets closer Thats whay SARH always acts like its locked on tight but chase chaff on the last moment
I’m VERY interested to see how this all plays out in game, im curious to see how war thunder reacts when it comes to live servers I think the days of flying low to avoid radar missiles is over, I think SARH missiles will be dead after the release of ARH missiles. I think if they retain the ability to just chaff off radar ARH missiles it might keep things moving in the right direction. If maintaining the radar lock aircraft to enemy helps ignore chaff then things will be VERY interesting I’m excited and nervous at these additions tbh
