THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL KNIFE SHARPENING VIDEO | The myth of grit progression for a sharp knife. 

Wow interesting I'll definitely try that. Thanks for the suggestion 👍

OUTDOORS55 finger nail bite test works great for me or shaving sharp.

I forgot about that test. Thanks for the reminder 😀

Hair splitting.

LCO213 proof link

Razor Ramone he got sharp wits

@@semigakpheep9791 never a dull moment

It definitely take some time to get a good mirror polish on a knife. As much as I resharpen, I'd spend a lot of time polishing. I usually only sharpen to 600-1000 grit. Those edges work well for me, others may feel differently. Thanks for watching 😀

Yup. Coarse edge is better for a work knife that needs to maintain its edge. William Collins has a video on it.

Working edge vs show edge?? Actually you’ve just proven you’re an idiot and don’t really know anything about knives. So knive guys like myself don’t know the difference? Uhh actually we do, it just depends on what we are working on. For cooking cutlery the details matter, for a wood chopping axe or utility knife it’s less strict. It’s non experts like yourself who don’t know the difference. 95 percent of tasks aren’t “good enough” for one method. It depends on the tool. Try sharpening a sushi knife on a 120 grit stone and watch what happens. He’s using a camping knife on a low grit. That’s fine. Again, it depends on the knife function. This is something knife guys, AKA not you actually understand.

Thanks for the comment! I've come to this conclusion myself. Although you wouldn't believe some of the comments and messages I get haha. I've experimented more since this video and have obtained some insanely sharp edges with the 220 grit. Almost unbelievably so. I'm no expert and learn every day, and I think if I saw this video several years ago, I wouldn't believe it myself. 😀 Thanks for watching and the comment!

OUTDOORS55 You also disproved another rampant misconception- That modern "super steels" require diamonds to sharpen. They don't. There's not a steel alloy of any kind that is even remotely close to the hardness of silicon carbide, aluminum oxide, or any natural sharpening stone. As you correctly point out, it's the coarse grits that form the apex and cutting edge. Everything after that is just polishing and refining. I wish this critical aspect of sharpening any type of cutting tool would get the attention it deserves. If it was better known, it would help so many "sharpening challenged" people become successful 👍

yeah making sure you form a correct apex at the very edge is the most important thing IMO. I think so much focus is brought to super high grit stones because they make the knife look good. And a good looking edge shows well on video. "It just looks sharp". And in many cases, it is. I think a lot of people would be surprised how "sharp " a knife can be on a low grit stone. Ive experimented a little with m4 and m390. Two very hard "super steels". They do take a little longer to sharpen but nothing crazy. I do think its easier to sharpen them incorrectly i.e. they are less forgiving, and that may be where that misconception comes from. 😀

Kme Sharpeners Well cpm rex 121 get very close to hardness of AL oxide and Arkansas stones at 72 hrc. But its the carbides in super steels that are the hardest part. Vanadium and Niobium carbides are about 85 hrc andtungsten are about 80hrc which is very hard. Sure you don't need diamond stones to sharpen steels (I don't use any except for really coarse to reprofile or super fine for final edge) but they will cut steels faster than ceramics and much faster than natural stones.

Kme Sharpeners so is there any point to higher grit stones besides the aesthetic appeal of a mirror finish?

Great comment! 100% agree. What is sharp is relative to what you're doing. Thanks for watching and the comment 👍

FoXHounDXD exactly! my bushcrafting knives I wouldnt even want (real) "razorsharp" It will get blunt faster and the little difference doesnt help much unless doing delicate work but then we get in to the catogory of tools. Where one would have a different tool for each job. Not for nothing there are so many different knives. Only my pro kitchen knives and shavingknive get to see #8000 and its very rare to need to do so as my kitchen knives see a hone and razor visits my strop. My chissels however know thats a different story. They see #4k quite allot. faster to use then stropping each time

FoXHounDXD you sound as if you've been watching skallagrim channel. on a serious note I agree with you on the Razr sharpness thing. some people have no idea

Charles Cannon ive never heard of that channel but ill check it out

Last i ever checked, stropping is grit progression. Yes its a super fine grit, but so is *gasp* 80000 grit. And i bet you if you strop over and over you will get a polished edge similar to standard grit progression. You have shown (effectively) that you dont need to have multiple stones going up to the thousands of grains to get a sharpened knive.

Yes..yes it did😭 Thanks my friend 👍

Woodswalker 1965 bicem

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I lost a bit of my soul watching that

Thanks for the comment 😀 I have practiced a lot, and been sharpening for a long time. Although, freehand sharpening is a lot easier than most people think. With the right stones and strop most people can get a decent edge after their first try. With proper guidance that is. Thanks again for the kind comment! And thanks for the sub, I really appreciate it!😁

Glad it was interesting. Thanks for watching Tim😀

Thanks for the comment, and good luck with your sharpening 👍

Yeah, 8000 grit stones are not really needed for most everyday applications. And most of the time can set you back if you were to start out on fine grit stones. Coarse stones remove metal faster and wont frustrate you buy not removing metal. If you have any questions let me now! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Shiny stuff is cool👊

I think you do get a slightly different edge when you go to a mirror finish. I don't know if I would call it a "sharper" edge because I think to toothy ness of a lower grit edge can help in a lot of situations. I think 99% of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test (however that would work😁) Thanks for the comment!

Most pull through sharpeners also have a fine side because they leave a pretty terrible edge with just the carbide side. And as for the cut with a sharp vs dull knife "toothiness" doesnt really have anything to do with that. Ive accidently sliced into my hand with a razor blade and despite the extremely low grit those ar shrpened at ( looks to be something around 120 or lower grit) I cant even see a scar where i was cut. Its more about a dull edge will tear through your skin leaving ragged edges to the cut which heal slower and worse. while a sharp cut with either a mirror polished or very low grit edge will slice through your skin leaving a much cleaner cut that heals faster and with less scaring. As far as I know, the reason that axes and such are given a courser edge is that a course toothy edge tends to last longer since they act kind of like serrations, while a super fine edge will push cut better but will also roll more easily since the teeth arent there to protect the cutting edge.

West Coast Warriors Archive its just not worth the time to bring a axe to a very fine edge. And it isnt really needed.

You are wrong on this part "a super fine edge will push cut better but will also roll more easily since the teeth arent there to protect the cutting edge." I could explain it but it takes too much effort, you can do your own research.

Haha! thanks for watching my friend!

Thanks for watching 👍

Awesome, buy some good stones and go to town!

That's sounds like a great test! I'll have to try that. The wicked edge system looks like a great system. The price is what keeps me away. Maybe one day I'll bite the bullet and buy one. Until then I'll try and keep getting better at freehand sharpening. I think having a system like the wicked edge would certainly make a difference at the highest levels of sharpness. I'd like to find someone who's owns one and do a head to head test. Human vs machine! I have no doubt the wicked edge would win, but it would still be interesting! Thanks for watching and the comment!😀

yeah, the W.E. system is quite expensive, especially if you buy the upper levels / kits they offer.....and, when you wear out a set of sharpening paddles, they also are quite expensive to replace as I've just recently found out. ( but they do have " seconds " and slightly used set they will sell you at about 1/2 price of a new set )....if you can afford it, I promise you that you won't regret the purchase as it is the BEST system I have ever used, hands down........but I do still enjoy hand sharpening occasionally just to keep the skill and muscle memory intact. I have considered getting the Murray Carter system of a 1000 grit, and a 6000 grit waterstone as he seems to get really nice edges with those, but the wife will kick my fanny most likely, LOL.

Thanks for the comment and the pun😀! I still enjoy a good polished edge, it just takes a lot of time to achieve, and it doesn't last long under hard use. Glad you found a system that works for you! Thanks for watching 😀

Haha thanks! Never used the sharp maker. The little stones do take some getting used to but they really do work very well. Thanks for watching 😀

Thanks 😀

Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching 😀

Thanks for watching 😀

Augustus McRae If you use knives professionally every day its nice to have a progression of stones at different grits in case a knife chips and you need to reshape it or if you need to touch up knives that are just a bit dull

I would say three items would suffice, 1 med grit stone, 1 fine grit stone, and a strop to get rid of the burr. anything more is just for the hobby knife enthusiast. If my knife chipped, I would send it to a professional anyway. No need for me to personally own all those stones.

Augustus McRae Maybe not but Im a chef I have 4 stones a coarse med and fine arkansas and than a double sided 1000 and 3000 waterstone also I don't have the luxury of time if I chip a knife on the job I need it fixed quickly

I can understand if you need them for your profession, but I've seen some guys use like 6 or 7 and they're not even chefs. Kind of overdoing it at that point, I would say.

Augustus McRae I can certainly agree with you on that its way overkill

Thanks for the comment! I agree with reading your work and making corrections as you go. I think that's the hardest part about learning to sharpen. Thanks for watching 😀👍

Haha yeah I was worried some people might think I'm on public land or something. Yeah freehand sharpening takes a little practice but it's definitely not hard. I think it's more muscle memory than anything. Thanks for watching Jason!

thanks my friend 😀

For me, I haven't noticed THAT much of a difference in edge retention, from a coarse to a fine grit. My question is, is the edge going last as long as it took to sharpen. So if it takes me 10 -15 minutes to progress through the grits, will I regain that time in edge retention.... realistically, I think it would depend on what you were cutting . Might be something to look into. Thanks for the comment 👍

Thanks for watching Papa😀

Awsome! I think I'm going to revisit this video in the near future and do a part two. After experimenting a little more with the 220grit stone, and some different knife steels, I've found some steels take a 220 edge better than others. Some steel will get crazy, crazy, scary sharp with a 220. Almost unbelievably so. While other steel won't. Thanks for watching and the comment 😀

I dont know, I haven't seen a HUGE difference in edge retention with grit progression. It takes a good amount of time to progress through the grits. The question is, does the edge last as long as it took to sharpen? Meaning, if I spend 20 minutes progressing through the grits, will the knife last another 20 minutes of constant cutting. In the little bit of testing I've done I haven't seen that to be the case. I don't know, I may make another video on this subject, and do some more testing. Thanks for the comment!😀

Yeah. I respect the rationale. I would agree that many obsess over a mirror finish for applications when it isn't necessary. My attitude towards different grits/finishes matches my attitude towards different steels: use the right one for the right job. It feels like higher grits extend the edge retention of a tool, but only as far as the application/tool necessitates. I'm generally a two stone/tool guy, but the stones differ from blade to blade...My VG10 Delica, for example, sees a 1000 and a 4000 before the strop. Going through two stones rather than one doesn't take up much more time. I just first decide on a finishing stone then pick an acceptably disparate coarseness down from that. As I mentioned before, taking my axes to 1000 after 250 (don't have 220) really makes a difference. Mind you this isn't a universal practice--I know many who don't feel the need to go beyond a lawn mower blade file. For myself and how keen an edge I feel comfortable with in chopping tasks, one extra stone (perhaps 5 min) means I can go several months between sharpening, where 220 leaves heads feeling adequate at first but somewhat dull after few uses. I couldn't say about constant cutting. That being said, I certainly wouldn't go to 4000, then 8000, or even higher for a chopping tool. A mirror finish wouldn't do anything for an axe or hatchet, given its use and the steel most axe heads are made of. I'll give an axe an extra 5 min for an extra month or two of use, but not 20 minutes. At the same time, I've shaved with a straight razor that was only brought to 320 after a guy at a knife store mistakenly convinced me that a Suehiro #800 stone was actually 8000 grit (it's actually 320 grit). The chemical stone was very hard out of the box before being used and felt like a fine Arkansas stone when sharpening, so I believed him....until I shaved with it. Not fun to feel that on my face, even after stropping with canvas and leather. So I feel comfortable saying from first hand experience that a straight razor should be brought to a mirror edge, the higher grit the better. I look forward to what ever videos you wind up doing on this. I enjoy your approach to sharpening (practical and not over done) and am impressed with your mechanics, so I'll be keeping an eye out for future vids.

Thanks for the comment! It's amazing how sharp a 220 feels when done properly. It just "bites". A strop is definitely a must! It is nice to polish every now and then though😀 Thanks for stopping by👍

Thanks 😀

Never tried diamond stones, but they are on the list😀 Thanks for the comment!

I'm not opposed to any sharpening method! As long as it works👍Thanks for the comment 😀

Sharpness, is just an items ability to cut something. If it cuts what you need it to cut its sharp 😀 I agree a polished edge doesn't do well on zip ties. Thanks for the comment 👍

Yeah it's all a compromise. Is the time that goes into sharpening to a mirror polish seen on the back end. It really depends on the user and their expectations. I usually only sharpen to 600 or 1000 any more than that for me isn't worth it for everyday use. For others that may be different. Thanks for the comment!

I agree that would be interesting to see. I know I've seen some pictures of a knife with a mirror polish under magnification and it still looked all scratched up. I think there's always going to be compromise in terms of edge holding a hair splitting edge. Unless some new super steel comes out and changes everything haha. Thanks for watching and the comment 😀

100% true! It's a matter of preference, and what works for you, and your cutting tasks, that matters. Thanks for the comment 😀

I'm not knocking grit progression. It offers a lot of benefits at the expense of time. Just depends on your needs, and wants. Thanks for the comment, I couldn't agree more😀

Yeah I agree. I'm a pretty hard user and have to cut a lot of really abrasive stuff. Sometimes a strop isn't enough for me. I rarely use a 220 grit and just use a 600-1000. I've been experimenting since this video and found a 220 is capable of a lot more. Proper technique is a must though 😀 Thanks for the comment 😀👍

Thanks for stopping by! Let me know how that worksharp works out!

Are you a purist about using only stones for sharpening? I don't know enough just yet but I see that some people are good with stones or belts and some like just one or the other. Just curious. PS, I really did the videos! Your intensity is intense!

Nope no purest here. I use stones because they are cheap compared to other methods. Thanks for watching! I really appreciate it!

Thank you my friend 😀

Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried that but never seem to get it to work. I'm probably not doing something right though haha.

It's all personal preference. I usually sharpen to 1000 grit and strop. It just takes time to progress through all the grits. A 220 edge isn't pretty but it definitely can be insanely sharp. Thanks for stopping by👍

Haha I wouldn't call hand stropping on fine green compound grit progression. Not much cut with this strop. A different strop with black compound... maybe. Thanks for watching!

Chase He was talking about stone grits. As far as I'm aware of, strop blocks are not stones.

OUTDOORS55 good

progression would be like 1,2,3,4,5, outdoors55 went from 1,5, that aint progression, there are a whole lot of grits between 220 and the strop.

cando333 exactly.

Thanks!

It all depends on what you want in the knife. Super refined edges work well on some things, and toothy edges work better on others. Honestly it all comes back to the user 😀

Yep couldn't agree more. Thanks for the comment!

I think you missed the point of the video.

Glad you found a method that works for you😀 Thanks for the comment 😀

I honestly have no idea what the angle is. IMO the angle isn't as important as fully apexing the edge. As long as the angle is not extreme in one direction or the other, you will achieve a sharp knife, as long as the edge is apexed and the burr is removed with a strop. Angles are a whole subject unto themselves. In Freehand sharpening the angle is never really consistent due to human error. I will probably make a video on angles in the near future. Hopefully I can explain it a little better. 😀 Thanks for stopping by👍

OUTDOORS55 I agree and disagree. Angle matter if you are usin a knife to precision cut or shaving. You can hone it at 15k stones at 40 degrees per side and you won't cut anything unless you use a hammer batoning it at the knifes spine. My guess you are using something about 10~12 degrees per side. Another issue is the thickness of the blade just behind the edge. Centofane is hollow grind which provide less metal behind the edge making easy to get a scary sharp at that point of the blade. But Im curious about angle because I would like to know if you used the strop as microbevel or the same sharpening angle? Nice video by the way. Kudos.

That works. They also make deburring blocks out of hard felt that do the same thing. 👍

Haha that would be an interesting test! Although it sounds a lot like trying to thread a needle attached to a low flying 747 with a backhoe! It may be worth a try though😀! Thanks for the comment!

LOL😀 Thanks for watching 👍

He got some sharp wits

Yeah I'm not recommending to only sharpen on a 220 grit. Just proof of concept. However a knife can be very, very sharp on a 220 grit. Experimenting more with this concept has changed my opinion on sharpening and what is sharp. Thanks for watching 😀

Thanks for the kind words Adrienne👍

Mirror edges don't last long under real world use that's for sure. Thanks for the comment 😀

Haha if I didn't add the disclaimer I'm sure someone would have said "your cutting trees on public property"! Thanks for watching 😀

lol😀 Thanks for watching😁

Sounds like you might not be hitting consistent angles. Have you tried the sharpie trick on the other side, or considered using an angle guide?

I have a lot of videos whittling hair with a 220 grit edge just not this one. Also stopping is edge refinement, but not grit progression. The 220 grit scratch pattern will not change due to simple stropping.

David Haas don't really know cuz my stone is old but I think 6-800 grid should do nicely

You need to go very fine. At least around a 8000 grit and higher for mirror polish.

2000grit paper will give mirror finish.

you get a mirror finish with 3000 and higher also you can make your knife sharp with a 3k btw you dont have to remove the mirror finish.

No, you get a mirror polish with 2000grit and higher imgur.com/a/C3PfU Look at this pic

I don't have any experience in using a knife steel. Some say it's bad and others say it's good. I just use a strop. Does the same thing. 😀

IEatModels truckstops sell 1 pound bricks of polishing compound various grits cheap