This video is exactly what I am experiencing right now. Only it’s my fellow shooters & not the internet. I joined an informal 200y Varmint shoot last year. Shooting Varmint silhouettes with 3/4 to 1/2 bullseyes at 200y. Great folks, lots of fun & sharing techniques & load data. Everyone sincerely wants to help everyone. I finished the 1st year averaging 5th out of 25 shooters in 6 matches. This year I am struggling to do any better than 10th of 25. & I finally believe much of it, is the radical variation in my shooting techniques, due to advice I’m trying to follow, as opposed to simply shooting, the way I would naturally. I believe there is plenty of room for improvement in my natural technique, it’s just that I need to introduce change, 1 subtle technique at a time, not 6. In my sled, my rifles & loads are so easily capable of winning. On my rest, with me behind the gun, everything falls apart horribly. I can’t even remember now, how I used to shoot. Practice, practice, practice. Introduce 1 shift in technique at a time, until you either improve or determine it doesn’t suit you. Trust yourself & your instincts. Be very careful about blindly eating, what other truly well meaning shooters feed you. Their techniques may not work for you.
I was banned from SnipersHide for saying almost exactly what you are saying. They claimed I was harassing sponsors which I was not. I was very polite and was able to put up actual measurements for various types of gear I had used. Nothing people selling super expensive gear hate more than a man with experience and integrity talking young men with credit cards out of spending themselves into debt when it is not needed. Do not tell someone to master the solid basics of precision reloading and reading the wind to get you banned! LOL There are times when you really gain a significant advantage with a more expensive piece a gear and times when it will not really make or break you! Knowing the difference comes from experience and trial and error!
I like my beam scales and trust them... my electronic scales tend to wander... plural because I have more than 1 beam scale and more than one electronic scale.. No auto tricklers thou
@@jetthreat5000 They drift less, but if you do a Google search it's not hard to find people who have found they still drift. A beam scale does not do this. This is why the Prometheus uses a beam scale at its core, not any kind of electronic scale.
Honestly, it's been done. Even the best digital scales drift. Honestly, I think it would be a waste of his time. Digital scales are faster, beam scales are more accurate.
Wow ! This was basically the most real world I've seen about reloading and no BS rant lol thank you I really enjoy watching your videos and yes that would be cool to see the comparison with a budget scale and the Gucci scale
I shoot mid range FTR with as "cheap" of a set up as possible. I have had some success in finishing top 3 in a couple of matches, but I am guilty of "chasing" the perfect load, bullet, seating depth, etc. My novice advice is listen to Keith, John, or Eric... but find something that is repeatable, then practice. Like the channel!
I would like to see how your beam scale compares to you $5k electronic scale for accuracy & constancy. I trust my (Ohaus variant) beam scales over my electronic scales ... My best beam scale (Lyman D5) is accurate to within a granule of extruded powder (like Varget) and ~6 granules of fine ball powder (like WC748). My electronic scales (are not high end) all wander when trickling up a charge.
My personal experience with reloading equipment is this... You can make some very precise ammo with the inexpensive entry level equipment. But you'll pay for it in time. If you want to make a lot of precise ammo in a short amount of time... Get out your wallet. Precision will cost you in one way or another. It is up to the shooter to decide which is more important to him/her... Money or time.
I live in a world of precision accuracy (+0/-0.001inch is loose for me in the mechanics I order). The bean will be more accurate. The question is whether you're patient enough to put up with it and use it consistently.
I still use that same old scale. At 53, and a non-competitive bench and varmint shooter, I am in no hurry and only shoot a couple thousand rounds a year now. Thanks for another delightful video.
I shot H.P. for some years, and reached High Master. I will agree that accuracy and consistency in your equipment is vital and I did the same, single stage RCBS press, with RCBS dies. Loaded thousands of rounds with the combination. Everyone was looking for the winning combo. IME, what you mentioned at the top of this video about shooters is correct, and example, a minute and half shooter will have great difficulty shooting quarter minute groups, but will never admit to it. It`s always the "equipment" which is at fault.They don`t advance because they are not honest with themselves. Seems the shooter is never evaluated, just the equipment.
Enjoyed that! I would like to see the product placement offers, just for entertainment. Currently reading Rifle Accuracy Facts by Harold R. Vaughn, a retired rocket scientist... interesting book from 1998.
i load with a rock chucker, forster dies, and a chargemaster 1500. Gets th job done. I do like gucci gear but thats just because i like it, not the need for it. I get sub half moa with my rifle on a good day and thats good enough for my needs
How you get better? Shooter/target analysis. Now, what I think about your post, spot on. My Creds: US Distinguished Rifleman, American High Power Rifleman Award in Long-Range, Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS Training. BTW, I am a hand loader not by preference but for need. At any rate, for sure there are better places and sources for Marksmanship instruction than gleaning from RU-vid videos produced by folks who do not have the credentials to profess on the subject.
Beam scale V electronic. What most people don't realize is, with a lot of test equipment your quality analog devices are what you use to calibrate electronic equipment. It's just a lot faster with the electronics not really more precise.
From the looks of the comments, I'd say the 5-0-5 vs Autotrickler test is going to be verrryy popular indeed. At least the watching of it'll be popular, the results will be what the results will be. Bring it on, pls!
If you're wanting to do long range precision, only listen to those who are doing it well. There truly are only a few people out here worth listening to. I stayed confused for an embarrassing amount of time before realizing just how fractured the shooting community is. Lots of hunters out here talking about long range. Their definition of long range is 3-400yrds. Lol
I just discovered your channel and I already like it a lot. The line that meant the most to me in this video was the comment about all the medals hanging on your wall being won using a one piece die and a set of competition shell holders. Honestly, I didn't know shell holders were a thing, much less special ones for competition. I am new to long distance shooting so there are lots of decisions that I'll have to make, but I'm pretty sure that the 80/20 rule applies to long distance shooting as it does everything I've ever seen. Figuring out the 20 percent of things I need to focus on to get 80 percent of the way to competitive success is an interesting problem and might make for a good video. 🙂
Guys - if you already have a good trickler - the auto trickler can be a big expense - but if you can’t afford the auto trickler get the A&D scale and a pair of tweezers - Run your old trickler and sit the load on the A&D - then add or subtract grains with a pair of tweezers until you are spot on the load you want - this way you can get the exact load every load - if you still miss then this is on you!
Surround yourself with the best shooters and compete with them. You will learn quickly about what works and what doesn't. Oh, and I have shot against the best shooters in the country and beat them all one time. Oh memories of 2015. Joe
I’ve got the Gucci stuff already, AT-V4, Zero press, but don’t see any need for Gucci dies. Red, yellow and green box dies have worked for 40+ years. We could all use a good laugh with a video on stuff they’re trying to get you to pitch.
I would love to see the difference between a 505 and the auto trickler set up from canada. How about you tell us what caliber you shoot and your load information. So do the scale comparison.
Beam scale wins every time. We use two or three auto trickers to dump .3 grains under and the beam scale for the last little bit. Perfection every time.
I know that there are all sorts of trolls on the internet, but it never occurred to me that a competitor would disseminate false info to sabotage others.
*pauses video around **00:04:23* YES, YES, YES, please: shootout between the 505 & the Fx120i. I'm facing that question personally right now. Wondering: if the losd is consistent/accurate/good/shoots, is the variances that 505 pointer really going to show on paper.
@@winninginthewindmaybe they know something we don’t. Maybe there’s a demand among precision shooters for putting fake eyelashes on their new garden gnomes. Another youtuber I watch had a similarly incongruous sponsor and he routinely made fun of the company whilst reading the ad copy but whatever he was doing was working for them, they sponsored him for ~2 years.
Shot past 300yds for the first time today. I had plenty of prep before hand, strelok ready to go, my own excel sheet to calculate clicks from inches off center from any range, sighted in close at 100yds. 200yds, easy. 300yds with 5.56/6.5cm with good box ammo, no issue. 400yds wasnt too bad with 5.56 & 6.5cm but Bulk .308 ammo is where i had issue. 300yds i wasnt sure i was hitting every time. Recoil made spotting my shots impossible and the targets being a couple feet off the ground made it impossible for me to tell where my miss went. I for sure have new respect for getting on target at 400+. My goal was to hit a 800yd plate... Its going to take some more shooting time. What is the grouping size at 100-200 that you need to be able to make in order to hit at 400+ with a high hit percentage?
I've got an RCBS 505 scale! I've often wondered how accurate the balance scale is compared to my Lyman scale. I stopped wondering that after seeing how far a single grain of R22 will move the needle. It's why powder comes in "SC" variants now.
Great great advice. Too many shooters are buying whatever is touted as the latest new thing with the thinking it will automatically make my group size improve. I've heard people down play shooting for practice because it's wearing my barrel out, too expensive etc etc then justify dropping money on 419 press. Yes it's a nice press but hardly a magical ammo creating wonder. Marketing and money are powerful tools, be wise with your wallet.
Mmmm, I’m gunna havetah say physical fitness. Lay off the caffeine too, cut it out completely if possible. Then burpees and running, or swimming if you’re wicked old and broken.
Yes, I'd really enjoy watching the outcomes, on target, of using the two different scales! That sounds like a very worthwhile use of my time. No, I'm not being sarcastic. I do think it would benefit me.
I load with the old equipment because it is what I can afford and what I have and I agree with you 100% just shoot and have fun... enjoy the sport at whatever level Oh I am 73 and still trying to be good.......would love to see a balance beam scale against a digital on the target.. great video...
I'm going to be honest the area I'm most interested in in terms of cost benefit would be tests and bipods. I'm getting very good bench and poutine results with my $15 bipod from Amazon, but I'm continuously curious how much better the others are.
I like this video. Noticed there some other videos not doing well on same subject. Goofy holding gun is biggest variable in the whole process. Internet perfection ist spend to much time on tube than shooting. Signature procrastinator here. Need a better chair. An llbean scarf .ya a better hat .I saw these really good sun glasses on -- oh well😢
Great video and advice Keith, you can’t just buy your way to a podium place, sure you can buy your way away from a lot of problems but at the of the day it’s the consistency and repeatability that comes from controlling the process(es) that give you the solid base from which to manage the real-time conditions that affect each shot - and that only comes with time on range. And yes, would be really interested to see the Autotrickler v Beam showdown.
Sitting at my loading bench I am not a competitive shooter but I have benchrest rifles have competed in short range in high power and I do a few barnyard shoots each year and I got to say I like the neolube it keeps my seating pressures very consistent which increases my accuracy noticeably thank you very much for the information tried many other things this works the best for me
I would love to see the scale comparison. I ha e delt with a lot that you must have the best of the best to do anything. That is the reason I had stepped back from fclass shooting. Been told your chassis tells me your not serious about the sport and everything else and you know them personally.
Great to see some honesty on YT. This is why I subscribe... alternate views of traditional lore based on mathematical and physicics-based truths. Would love to see the scale vid AND the unsolicited product emails. Thanks for bringing balance and sanity to this community
Quick question, have you ever annealed after sizing? I did it accidently a while back and the seating force seamed exponentially less, or was I mistaken?
Bringing material science to bear, it wasn't in your head. When you resize after annealing you build up stress in the material, stress you relieved during annealing. This is "good" because it lets the brass act more like a spring and hold the bullet a little more securely and consistently. If you're taking your ammo into the field or putting it in a magazine, that matters quite a bit (yes I've done this and regretted it). I'd be curious if it makes a big difference if you single feed though. Could be better for some chambers honestly.
Great videos Keith would love to see an actual comparison of the scales not so much the trickle,r the beam scale with some added reference points, and a Magnifier or Camera, to make variations in the poise, more discernible. I believe the scales if used by the same person are only a reference. The only time it would be different would be if I gave you a load to be dropped on a different scale. Perhaps an older Ohaus beam, a medium price, load cell electronic, reloaders, brand, and an A&D , analytical balance
Not to come out of left field, and the scale test sounds fun, but I'd like to see you test freshly loaded ammo, vs the same ammo thats sat loaded for a month, vs ammo that sat but was seated long and then given a final seat at the same time as the fresh ammo. Ive tried to test this and i think it does make a verifiable difference but im not confident enough in my ability to weed out unintended variables to be confident.
I've tested left over ammo that was over a year old and was final seated just before firing (seating force was within normal values). To my surprise, it had a much lower velocity than expected when compared to freshly loaded ammo. I can only theorize that the powder humidity level changed over time. Additional testing showed that storing the already slow loads in a desiccated container for a month did not improve the velocity much leaving me with a question as to the exact cause. My problem is finding the exact cause. I don't want to put a guess out there. I will only make a video about it *if* I can prove it.
I hear you. I am lucky to finally live within driving distance of a club that allows unsupervised 600 yard shooting. It hasn't always been like this, and my success started back when I only had a 100 yard range to work with. I would encourage you to spend some time working out how to work with what you have. I used to shoot at vertical lines to teach myself to make wind calls at short range.
Statistical significance is well outside of my personal resources. I would expect a difference, if any, to be very small, requiring many thousands of rounds to define.
100% You just can't trust a channel by someone who goes by an ambiguous name like "John" and never shows his face, even going so far as to wear gloves to conceal his identity. That's why I watch your channel instead...😉
@@winninginthewind Yes, you, John, and Erik have moved the sport forward immeasurably, and it would be a dream come true for me to compete (and inevitably lose) to you folks. There are a lot of anonymous people out there that provide bad information, but I judge the information by the value in what is said, not who is saying it. Even a broke clock is right twice a day, and even guys like you, John, and Erik are only human: the consumer has a responsibility to judge what they are consuming.
I'd be interested to see, if there's any real difference between high-end FL bushing dies vs humble Lee Collet + Redding Body combo. Both work the brass only as much as necessary, but the first set costs 2-3 times as much (at least in Europe).
I can say I've noticed a difference jumping from RCBS to Hornady's match stuff in terms of consistency on the shoulder shape and angle, but I couldn't tell you when you get finishing returns.
