Clear and concise video Jan - and to the point. It’s a lot of work to print then compile a 13 min vid like this and your voice is calming to listen to. You have got me changing my extruder bearings that I’ve been putting off as I’m keen to print something after watching your vid :) good work mate and cheers from Australia :)
Oh, thank you so much for your lovely comment. That makes me very happy and motivates me. Happy printing and greetings from the other side of the world ;) Jan
Polypropylene is an underrated filament indeed! A few things that weren't mentioned: - you print hinges with it: the plastic can bend many times without breaking - it's very useful when you want a part with low friction coefficient, so much for that it can be considered self lubricating in some use cases - it's easier than expected to print on clear packing tape. I had great results with Fiberlogy's natural PP on clear tape, 30°C bed.
Wow that PP CF filament has some impressive properties. Some properties of both filaments are not that impressive, but the density is! Almost like comparing steel to aluminum in terms of strength per weight. Wow the temp resistance too is quite good, especially for the PP CF. If only it was more affordable and widely available! Thanks for the testing.
Fiberlogy, Filamentum and Innovatefil all have PP in their portfolio. Innovatefil also has glass and carbon fiber variants. The prices I see are more than ASA but less than nylons.
Great video! I remember trying PP-GF a long time ago and never could get large parts to stick well. Having that right build surface probably would have helped. Cheers!
@@JanTecEngineering I attempted PP-GF and Magigoo PP on both a PEI sticker and textured PEI back in the day and it would just warp like crazy. Materials are the wild wild west in 3D printing though, so it's possible that newer PP blends have better additives in them now to minimize warping
Awesome video! the ppprint bed looks nice, it'd be interesting to see how that kit holds over time as it's certainly more expensive and operational work. Also why is their PP so expensive? Normal rolls are maybe 15-25EUR/kg....
Fun fact to note, just since he mentioned that CF filament was black cause of the fibers, most CF filaments are colored black. Naturally filament is translucent or clear, so adding fibers to it just makes it have little specs throughout. Ambrosia Filament actually sells red and blue CF-ASA in addition to their normal black CF-ASA. Really you can dye CF filament any color, just black is the most reasonable color since the dark fibers will naturally make any color darker.
I recently found out that my employer discards tons of PP in thin strips that would be very easily chopped up into small pieces perfect for a pellet extruder, so I've been curious about PP printing ever since. This looks very promising! I'd love to give this a try!
If you’re allowed, definitely start collecting them. If not, find out which garbage company services their dumpster and contact them directly, or ask the driver (a small tip or a cold drink can be a nice incentive). I did this after my local vape shop discarded dozens of unopened flavored vapes following the flavored vape ban. They wouldn’t let me take them from the dumpster, so I found out their garbage pickup schedule and asked the drivers directly. I brought potential gifts, took a good look at the situation, and decided that ice-cold beer would do the trick-and it did! The drivers were thrilled, and so was I (though the vape shop owner wasn’t as happy). 😂
Forgot to add this, the unopened vapes or even opened are great for usb c/micro usb c port pcbs and, of course, the rechargeable battery inside. Free small rechargeable batteries are the best kind! They work great for small 3d printed rc projects and drones,etc.
Great video! In the industrial extrusion world, PP is extremely common, and often used as a purge material for other materials because of how cheap the raw materials are. I haven’t seen someone be able to print with it as easily as you did, and I never really considered that you could just use a different print bed surface. Also, since PP is less dense than water, it one of the few materials that we have to “weigh down” when making because it wants to float in the water baths used for cooling during production. Lastly, this is one of those times where I wonder why we sell filament by WEIGHT instead of LENGTH. Since PLA is about 37% more dense than PLA, it means that you’d get about 37% more 3D prints from a 1kg spool of PP compared to PLA. It seems like selling by length (or volume) would make more sense than weight because essentially PP could be 37% “more expensive” than PLA for 1kg, and still be the same price by volume. I have a few materials I’m saving up for you over here. We should be making the 3rd and final material next week, and then I plan on shipping them out to you (as long as I get the OK from the rest of my team)
Thank you for this valuable information. I wrote down that I will compare filament prices in €/metre next time. That's fantastic! Looking forward to trying Polar Filament soon :)
Definitely want to know this as well. I'm afraid this is often overlooked and a lot of people are wasting their health and the health of their colleagues/housemates by not knowing about VOC's.
@JanTec3D - Great video, enjoyed the content. I do have a few questions - 1 - How is the UV resistance if we wanted to use this outdoors or in a vehicle for dash mount components? 2 - Are there any especially dangerous VOCs like with ASA & ABS that would require fume extraction / ventilation?
I don't know, requires specialized build plate, slow extrusion, higher price, tendency to warp (which may be reduced when going for even pricier options), needs 120 bed just to remove, ... sure, may have some niche applications, but I don't think it is a good general option.
Magigoo PP on a Garolite bed works on PP and GF-PP for me, even on open machines. PP is such a wonderful material. Almost unbelievably light weight, "slippery" finish, watertight and as tough as they come. GF-PP prints with a very "grippy" texture and really stiffens up the print also doesn't warp as much as PP.
You're absolutely right. After I did this video, I also printed some PP-GF with Magigoo PP and it worked perfectly (even sticked a bit too well to the print sheet).
@@justinreinsma9772 Magigoo PP is a must and print on garolite that is at least 3mm thick. If you use anything thinner like a spring steel sheet the PP will lift it off the bed. Print no faster than 60mm/sec. The first 3-5 layers print at 30mm/sec. 245/75 are the temps I use.
Great video, but one important thing should be told to viewers. Material being food safe doesnt mean the process is. FDM 3d printers cannot manufacture food safe products unfortunately. Its not just the brass tip, that might have led in it, (you can anyway buy an iron one or stainless steel) Its the lack of smoothness and layer lines that become a problem. Between the layers are unfortunately perfect spots for bacterial colony growth. My tech fun youtube channel did scientific tests. Coating with food safe resin might work, but it is not an permanent solution as resin makes the surface smooth but it slowly may degrade.
Please also take into account that this filament is a compound! That means that the added components inside the filament also have their chemical properties that are most likely not the ones the labeled PP has.
That's my only gripe with "PP" filaments. If you want true solvent and chemical resistance, unless you have pure PP, then you can't know for sure how inert it really is. Without knowing the types of additives, in high level scientific research, it's a risk to use without concern for contamination. Pure PP printing is probably not really possible unfortunately without some serious investment. Unless PPrint can validate and guarantee their additives in certain applications.
Great testing and thanks for doing these in English! Just a small note, it has been scientifically proven that you can easily clean 3d prints and that layers and pores are not the issue for bacteria as soap can reach anywhere they can.
Thank you! Also for adding this note. I didn't know about this. Can you tell me where to find more information about this research? Food safe 3d printing is a really big topic.
@@JanTecEngineering I posted a link, you will probably have to manually enable my comment to show :) if not, it was done by Matt Thomas, should be easy to find on ggl
Yeah RU-vid must have removed that link and there's no way for me to enable it... Anyway, found his study on ResearchGate and downloaded the paper - thanks again!
These are honestly the most gorgeous PP prints ive ever seen, and this is one of if not the best PP printing overview videos on RU-vid. You should make more in which you push the system to the limit. Its one thing to print benchies and low profile small items, or even the small bed surface contact large manifold part (which was simply stunning) but its another to print something tall, nearly solid, with large surface area on the bed and long corners. I tried this material for the bed, and when stress testing it even with a 20mm brim, i couldn't get a 100*100*30(z) cube like item to print without pulling up the corners.
I recently found a nice improved replacement for PETG in the form of Filalab's PCTG, and now it seems PP might be an improvement over that for my applications, where temperature resistance and ease of printability are priority (I'm steering away from ABS and ASA for the lack of an enclosed printer for now). Thank you for the video and bringing this to our attention :) Perhaps PCTG might be something worth your study time as well?
It is worth noting that PP CAN be food safe. But that doesn't mean that the 3D printing filament is food safe or that a printed part will be food safe... And if you add carbon fibre...
I'm not a fan of PP CF just because you lose so much layer adhesion by the addition of the carbon fiber. Regular PP has perfect layer adhesion and is an amazing material for making bottles and other water proof items. A better solvent resistant material that is also rigid and strong is PPS CF. It's expensive and requires a high temp printer, but it is a much better material for solvent resistant 3d printed structural parts.
The PP print stuf doesnt work at all on any of my raise3D machines. The best result is on a dedicated hard PP plate or PP packing tape. The PPprint surface/plate never gave me any usefull results. Maybe they fixed some stuff today... i bought a set 2-3 years ago and it is like i said useless. I produce a lot of stuff for chemical rich environments so PP is a must but saddly i always have to use PP tape or hard PP plate with magnets inside... I was really dissapointed. Good thing about PP is the chemical resistance + its kinda soft and bendy so its hard to break. Temperature is a problem though.
I've had similar issues with this product in the sample size printing for fuel cell and battery research. I'd love to chat with you about how you've been getting functional PP parts. Unfortunately I think the ultimate way to go about this is to move toward PP powder SLS in which none of the typical PP issues are deal breakers, although the cost barrier...
@@dmax9324 i just buught a bunch of 200x200mm PP plates and clamped them to the print bed. THe PP only sticks to PP so... THe adhesion is not a problem anymore. The bad side is that the plates deteriorate pretty quickly or you brake them when taking the prints off. PP brown packing tape is also a great option. I just put it over buildtak sometimes for smaller parts and it works wonders. I bought from PPprint the set for my printer and i got everything the guy in the video got but the thing is useless. I never had any sucessfull print off of it.
Now a version of PP or perhaps PP-CF that foams in the nozzle like LW-PLA would be the ultimate material for 3d printed rc aircraft. I would love to see that
To print on polypropylene you only need a polypropylene base. And do you know one of the flattest things that are made of polypropylene?: meat cutting boards. Generally food equipment is made of LDPE, HDPE, Nylon or PP. You can go to a market and see if there is a PP meat cutting board, cut it to the size of your table and use it to print PP. I've been doing this for years and it works. There are also polypropylene signs that you can buy online from visual communication companies/that manufacture signs or advertising signs. They are smooth polypropylene sheets in different thicknesses and colors that exist. I have been working with polypropylene in 3D printing for 4 years and I can say that it works as if it were PLA. Tips: buy a piece that is not too thin, 5mm is ideal, but if it is thicker, like 10mm, it will work too but you won't have as much flexibility to twist the table and remove the piece after printing. You can warp the table (if it comes warped or has warped over the years) with heat, a flat surface and a lot of weight. I straightened it in the oven at 120º, then placed it on a marble stone with a normal printing plate and lots of books on top. Then just put it in the printer and print with the table temperature turned off. You can adjust the level of adhesion of the PP to the table according to the temperature of the first layer: if it is too hot it will fuse with the table, if it is too cold it will not adhere. I suggest starting 10ºC below the specified temperature of the material and very slowly, wait for the piece to cool and try to remove it from the table, it should have the same adhesion as PETG. Remembering that PP does not need to be cooled as it can warp. Turn off all part cooling fans. And if the HOTEND cooling fan blows, check if the air is very cold. If it is, you should consider modifying the wind flow with a deflector so it doesn't go straight to the part. If the wind is hot there is no problem, PP handles printing at high temperatures well. You don't need a closed chamber to print PP, it's not like ABS, but if you have one it's better, the finish of the piece is slightly better, apart from the fact that it doesn't contaminate the adhesion surface of each layer with dust particles contained within. in the external environment.
its a pita to print for one. the low extrusion speed of max 60mms is another reason. then there is bed adhesion. meh to pp. good for lifetime hinges. thats about it? asa-lw outperforms pp for aero or hydro sir. personal experience here, pp has been on the marked since the fdm game started. for all aero is asa-lw the best option. its a bit tricky on some platforms to calibrate flow, but once you get that right? oh man,. current planning a new tiny drone project with asa-lw for forest ranger services. and the asa is just the thing for it, its just a bit shy in the color dept. so they will get a black prototype :)
Do you have any tips for helping avoid warping? I'm suffering right now trying to print 3DXTECH PP-GF on a pp plate in my P1s. I've got a 50c space heater warming up the enclosure and I'm trying to print with no fans going. It seems like it's adhering alright but the warping is killing me. I'm going with 90 to 100c for the bed temp and 235-260 for the nozzle. I've tried dropping the bed temp from 70c to 20c after the first layer as recommended for the PPCF filaments from pp print, but my printer struggles to get the temp down after the chamber is all heated up.
I have bambulab a1 with ams, and tried to print with verbatim PP. I just waste 1kg of it, it is warping so hard. I never had problem with ABS, PETG, ASA, PA12, and CF variant of these but PP is impossible for me...
I'm still deciding between PP CF and PC CF for my intake manifold, will do some testing pressure holding capabilities of each. ASA held 5 bar at 5mm thick
I actually havent had adherence issues with PP and PPS on standard PEI plates with some pva glue. I have a heated chamber though which is necessary to prevent warping.
Brilliant video I absolutely love pp and I agree that it is massively underrated. I am baffled why more people don't use it. Unfortunately it seems because so few try pp the market for it struggles a bit and makes it not the easiest product to get hold of but hopefully one day it will catch on and become more available.
Custom bed is honestly the only way to go about solving adhesion issues with PP. It's a very complicated problem with pretty high level polymer science and physics involved, hence higher cost for a solution that actually works.
Just wanted to add when using packing tape for small items what works for me is to heat the bed to 80 apply the tape getting it really smooth and bubble free (use a cloth to rub it down and to avoid burns) then cool the bed to 35 this really bonds the tape down and helps reduce warping.
Price point is quite a downside thought. It feels like you would only use if you really needed the specific material properties. Do you have all your test results-comparing other materials in a single place? Would a really nice resource. Love the professional and scientific approach!
How about printing supports? I believe PP sticks to itself really well, are there good settings to use or should a specific compatible support material be used?
I currently use addnorth matte ht pla pro matte and this cf variant seems like a competitor. However, this seems messy to print and has cf which i hate sanding.
Nicht 'underrated', vielmehr maßlos 'overpriced'. Wären die Preise im gleichen Rahmen wie bei PETG-CF und ABS-GF, dann würden 100x mehr Leute PP Filamente benutzen. Aber 100+ € für ne Spule von dem Zeug ist Wahnsinn, zumal PP einer der weit-verbreitetsten und billigsten Industrie-Kunststoffe überhaupt ist. Abzocke pur.
Drei Rollen wurden mir auf Anfrage geschickt, Bedingungen gab es keine und ich habe genau die Ergebnisse gezeigt, die bei meinen Standard-Tests herauskamen. Dass der Preis vergleichsweise hoch ist stimmt, es gibt jedoch auch Alternativen (die ich so jedoch jetzt nicht getestet habe). Eins kann ich jedoch versichern, ich verkaufe mich nicht für ein paar kostenlose Spulen Filament ;)
Excellent video. I"m new to 3d printing and this is extremely interesting. Would PP suffice as for interior automotive parts in extreme environments like ABA/ASA?
This is just a sponsored video isnt it? Your comparison of filaments seemed to be cherry picked and not consistent. Like what doing the impact tests you didnt compare it to Nylon CF.
It is not. There is no comparison with PA CF, as I had never tested it before at that time (created the video last year). And: why is it not consistent? Each property gets compared with the exact same filaments I have tested before.
I like yout methodical way of work, at first (sound) I tought it is Stefan (from CNC kitchen)'s video. However, I found a logical error: as conclusion you said that PP printed pipe for hydrogen peroxide would resist interlayer adhesion stress regardless of your previous interlayer adhesion test which shows thad PP has lower Z-direction strength than PLA. Also, it will be interesting to see comparison of PP with the other, much cheaper and much more 3d printing friendly, food friendly material: PCTG. Please make similar tests with PCTG and put it in your charts.
Chemically... good luck. melting together layers with a blow torch or heat gun works tough. just be careful, slight under extrusion or entrained water (as in soaked, pp is absolutely non-hygroscopic) will cause the surface to bubble. Worked great with verbatim, meh with fiberology brand. Tough I doubt CF would be conducive to smoothing out layer lines.
