The Mystery of Deltarune's Old Song from the Sea 

Vivet has the comfiest voice in the whole deltarune community

As of now, I think this "old song" is Penumbra Phantasm. It's not a "new song". An unfinished midi of it has a very distinct whale sample used in it, so it has something to do with water. Toby has hinted at it being related to Deltarune by saying "ＡＴ ＂ＳＨＡＤＯＷ＇Ｓ ＥＤＧＥ，＂ ＳＨＡＴＴＥＲ ＴＨＥ ＴＷＩＬＩＧＨＴ ＲＥＶＥＲＩＥ" when asked about it, which directly ties to his first tweet "The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet." (come on that's obviously about Deltarune.) Darkness also has A LOT of water symbolism and Penumbra Phantasm has both water and shadow symbolism. Penumbra Phantasm literally means "An Illusion at shadow's edge" It is also worth noting that The Holy's melody sounds like a modified version of a part of Penumbra Phantasm. Now, the issue with this is that this was meant to be a Homestuck song and a large part of it uses "Doctor", which is not Toby's motif. But do remember that Hopes And Dreams ALSO has Doctor hidden in it. Penumbra Phantasm also uses a modified version of Doctor as a base, which is technically original? It was used in a few homestuck tracks but it can probably be considered original. This wouldn't be the first time Toby made a song based on "Doctor" and used it in his game lol.

I sincerely think something will happen along the lines of "Gaster finally does something but you're not quite sure it's him at first", and then the "song from the sea" turns out to be his theme. I can imagine it being like a perfect "oh fuck, it's happening" moment.

A bit morbid, but something that this video made me think about is how deep sleep or near death, as reported from those who have had near death experiences, feels like being submerged in an ocean with waves gently pushing against you. You can't perceive the void, the darkness, but you can perceive being close to it. Oceans, especially with your darkness is related to nostalgia conclusion, represents freedom but they also present a very real danger if one is not careful traversing it. In some ways, there's a danger to nostalgia and it can trap you, leaving you yearning for it forever more. This song seems to capture that nostalgia, but it is also siren's call if one either listens too close or is not careful, much like nostalgia itself. We shall see what this may all mean as the prophesied story follows its seemingly set path. Hopefully I didn't go too wild and dark there but I'm full of shawarma and this video's got me thinking. Very refreshing work, Vivat!

You forgot IMAGE_DEPTH and the Sound Test. Onion says, while they've heard the whole Song once before, that they've also heard just *a piece* of a song, too. This might tie into the Sound Test, which takes place at a river bank, and with most of its songs just being 1-2 seconds of what appear to be but pieces of longer songs.

Theory: The song Onion hears comes from Dess, who is trapped in The Depths. Before disappearing, she used to play or sing the tune near Onion's home. Maybe, with her guitar?

imagine if somebody played the old song from the sea and it was just a much more long and detailed version of gaster's theme

I'm glad this channel exists, makes me feel less crazy when I make certain connections and interpretations regarding undertale and deltarune that seem logical to me but I never see them talked about anywhere else

UT/DR do such a good job at evoking a sense of mystery and intrigue with the more obscure little questions like this. People (understandably) focus on a lot of the major plot/world mechanic mysteries currently in Deltarune, but for me its this type of small possibly never to be answered stuff that really gets me. Toby has done a really good job at stoking that kind of stuff in Undertale and he really has cranked it up to 11 with Deltarune. Once the game is fully out and (a decent chunk) of the major mysteries are more clear/solved, it'll probably be stuff like this that'll keep that feeling going. A kind of wistful lost memory (with some slight ominous undertones?). And what do you know, that seems a bit like how they describe the song of the sea! Or it's a homestuck reference. It's always a homestuck reference.

The fact that I’ve never heard anything about the old song by the sea makes this all the more intriguing. Now I wonder if we’ll get anymore mentions to it in future chapters. I also feel nostalgic towards It’s Raining Somewhere Else, mainly because of its tune, and the fact that I heard it in videos LONG before I ever heard about Undertale. Great video, I hope you have a good day/night. 💜

Only after seeing what characters are prominent in Deltarune, I have to wonder if "starts with G" was always setting up a fake-out where we think we'll find Gaster but the person of importance was really Gerson

22:00 Yeah. I've talked about it a few times before to friends and people on forums how weirdly important Waterfall is in Undertale. I've been saying it for no exaggeration, YEARS. I'm really glad that someone with a lot of views is pointing it out too. Not to mention that all the tablets explaining Undertale's history are in Waterfall, which basically tells you outright "Hey guys, THIS is the big lore importance area!". It has the echo flowers, the dance shoes, the hidden item Legendary Artifact that Toby steals from us, the music box, don't even get me *STARTED* ON THAT _MUSIC BOX,_ the voice that tells us about the creepy face behind us, napsta-and-hapsta'blook's homes, Gerson's shop, the flashbacks of *_CHARA'S_* memories, and SO. FRIKKEN. MUCH. MORE! It is definitely the "Lore Hot Spot" area of the entire game in my opinion. It definitely holds mysteries we the fandom haven't figured out yet. I am sure of that. Not only that, but the entire area has song after song that feels nostalgic and calming. Like this is a familiar place... 😅 Sorry I'm rambling again... TL;DR I fully agree with you and then some about the huge importance of Waterfall.

I don't necessarily agree that IRSE is going to show up in Deltarune, but I think it's interesting to note that the track "sans.", which shares IRSE's leitmotif, is the only Undertale track that has so far appeared unaltered in not only Deltarune proper but on the soundtrack, as well. That would make it possible IRSE to show up without being divorced from its original musical context.

Girl I love how the vid got suddenly derailed by "it's raining somewhere else", this is my first time watching your channel and I can already see that you love it lol

It does seem pretty plausible to me that the river person's angel line is just about Asriel/Chara, so I'm not sure we can infer much from it. Undertale's plot does involve the coming of a being who once saw the surface and ends up emptying the Underground. It's also not clear to me in Deltarune whether the angel is coming or if it's already here. (Edit: Though I guess, even if the angel has been around since the start of Deltarune, Deltarune wasn't released yet when Undertale was released...) But things certainly can end up having double meanings, so it does seem worth noting at least.

The first 10 second were like: WAS THAT A TALLY HALL REFERENCE!!?!?!?!?? ‼️‼️🔥🗣️👔🟥🟨🟩🟦⬜🔲🔳🏝🌈

You have no idea how happy I was to see the title of this video. The topic of the old song coming from the sea is something I always found very very interesting. One thing I wanted to note is I found something while re-reading the dialogue for onion in deltarune that might support your theory that it's raining somewhere else is the old song. One of onions lines is "It's not a "new" song" when talking about the song coming from the sea. Perhaps the fact that onion states it's not a new song could serve as a hint to the song being something people have already heard before? Maybe this song is something people who have played undertale will be already familiar with, thus not making it a "new" song. After all what is one song from undertale that is just straight up reused in deltarune without any changes to it? sans.

YOO, spampton sweepstakes.... that blue chair with water dripping sfx. and turning into a void when you hover over it.. another water darkness connection

Great Video! Its nice to sea someone talk about this subject. It would be cool to hear your opinion about the shadow crystals as I feel that is also under discussed.

I stumbled onto this, and I adore it! Great video. It's the obscure tie in make Toby's worlds so alive. "It's Raining Somewhere Else" is a favourite of mine... But I don't think it's the Old Sea Song. (I always thought it was about the Goner Kid.) I do agree that Shyren and Shyra know the song-- but how does Frisk know it? They shouldn't, but they do. So Chara must have. Also, the ice palace that has been repeatedly forshadowed is implied to be underwater. In Undertale, we fell down over and over (falling down is the monster equivalent to death) while in Deltarune the imagery has been repeatly drowning... I don't know what it means yet. Now for something I think you will very much enjoy, as a fellow "It's Raining Somewhere Else" connoisseur- There is an old 1970 song by the band "The Guess Who" that is eerily similar. It's called Sour Suite. I swear you could melody these songs into each other seamlessly. Have a listen and read the lyrics. I want your two cents.

WOOOO YEAA BABYYY the repercussions the woody theory video has had on the fandom tho 😭😭😭

nice musical miracle reference

Vivat you should narrate an audiobook your voice is so perfect

This idea just came to me, the "man from the other world" could also be the everyman, I might be reaching though.

Yay! I get so happy when you post!

I have literally never pieced this together, what an amazing web of details you have uncovered.

Oh I am SO HAPPY to see a video on this. The first video I've seen from you and has earned an instant sub, thank you ❤

Some really interesting ideas in this video, plus I really appreciate your discussion of Deltarune's themes of escapism, nostalgia and innocence, I feel like that kind of thematic analysis is often missing from theorycrafting. Subscribed :)

I think this is great! Keep making videos!

ive been meaning to check out your videos for quite some times now! not dissapointed in the slightest! wowie... i love thematic analysis and this really scratches a specific itch i didnt know i had. also people expressing their love for something very specific within a game is ALWAYS fun, sot hat It's Raining Somewhere Else tangent was fun! :D

Great video, man. It's the first time RU-vid reccomended your channel and I like it. About the song, I don't think it will be literally IRSE tbh. Instead I believe the real OSBTS will have some references to it (maybe the instrumental or a leitmotif), like the Dummy part of Big Shot. On general, Toby seems to avoid to use the same song twice, with only a few exceptions. He, however, sometimes uses extended versions of musics already played (like NYE HE HE and Bonetrousle), which makes Don't Forget and Find Her more probable in my opinion.

Another wonderful Vivat Veritas video! I really love this channel. Amidst the (quite frankly) batshit insane theorycrafting channels, it's nice to have someone like you who dials things down & focuses on the more niche & underappreciated parts of these two games I love. So thank you vv much!!

I really like "It's raining somewhere else", too! Great video as always! 👍

But isn't "It's Raining Somewhere Else" a sans motif song? About half the melody in the same melody as the one in the sans. song? It's nostlagic for us, but it'd be odd for something sans associated to be considered nostalgic to Hometown residents for a long time like Kris or Noelle, where Sans and his brother are new to the town and Kris presumably meets him the first time in Chapter 1? Though I don't have a better idea though...

23:27 I'd also like to mention any water theme named Waterfall songs, and the song that plays when you fight the amalgamation with Snowdrake's mom fused into it. Also perhaps the ominous song that plays as the default for all the genocide encounters. After all, what song is better tied to the themes of darkness than that one? Even if it may be a little out of left field.

Heck yeah, we're getting into the good stuff! I love this more obsure topic.

I missed your Deltarune theories :)

Hi, I really liked the video! It's really one of the better Deltarune Theory/Analysis videos out there, and this is also one of my favorite mysteries in Deltarune. Keep up the good work! By the way, just wanted to let you know that at about 6:00 minutes into the video, it's a bit hard to hear you over the music. (I guess Waterfall is an unexpectedly loud track.)

Maybe when Toby had his fever dream, he got close to having a lucid dream.

Very good theory but it has a small flaw, the title of the song is "it's RAINING somewhere else" and if the song is coming from the sea, well... it can't be raining underwater, unless the connection is rain water ocean

Great video 🎉

I love this video so much, and I love the connections between the ocean, hometown, and the darkworlds that you make. It paints a picture of grandure, specificity, and personal emotion that connects very heavily with me; and having it being tied together by a nostalgic, ominous song really touches me. I'm not sure what the identity of the song might be, and we might never know. I don't necessarily think that it's raining somewhere else is the song, but I definitely wouldn't be mad if it was. This was a fantastic video, I loved the pacing, vibes, humor; everything just came together really well. I hope you have a great break, relax and focus on yourself. I will always be looking forward to hearing what else you are cooking

return of the queen!!! i don't have a super deep comment lol I just wanted to say it's soooooo juicy too see someone talking about Deltarune in a way that really strongly resonates with my own takes on the game and its themes. This is going to sound a little like a non sequiter but I did want to ask if you had ever read the When They Cry series, particularly Umineko? Pretty much everything to do w/the way I engage with fiction is founded on the way Umineko influenced my views as a formative work and I was just curious as if that was the same for you or you were just coming to similar conclusions from a different direction.

riverperson kinda looks like ralsey with the robe at start of chapter 1

Ralsei first appears in a cloak that makes him look like River Person. If we're looking for a Deltarune equivalent for River Person, it's likely Ralsei.

dream sweet in sea major

Well I don't know why the river person would mention the song such an ominous way (outside of them being an inherently ominous person in general). I don't think we really need to look into why Onion-son is so ominous about it. In chapter 1 Onion-son ends the conversation with him by telling Kris that he'll tell them a secret he "only tells friends" tomorrow in an incredibly ominous way, and in chapter 2, that secret is revealed to be him wanting to start a band. Given this, it seems like ending the conversation in the most ominous and mysterious way possible, only to be revealed to be mundane the next chapter seems like it's going to be a running gag with Onion-son, it might legitimately not be that deep. But what are the unsolved mystery test box of the river person is still oddly similar to the events mentioned by Onion-son, so who knows. P.S. these speech to text function on my phone keeps autocorrecting "son" to "song". Ooooio, spOoky./j

Awesome video 👍

Man this person has some good taste. The evo ref in the ralsei video and now the miracle musical ref at the start of this one?

the only other character of significance that doesn't appear in deltarune at all is _i think_ muffet?

Something I've been considering more recently is what the importance of the name "Gaster" is, and more specifically how it relates to the way he speaks. I mean, we are already pretty sure the "W. D." part stands for "Wingdings", representing his speaking font like Sans and Papyrus' names, but what about the "Gaster" part? This may be a bit of a stretch, but write "GASTER" (yes, all caps, just the same way he speaks in Undertale) in the Wingdings 1 font and you'll see a reference to water, where the old song plays from, snow, the trademark of Noelle, and therefore the Angel, a pointing hand, which I take as a reference to the pose Kris makes when performing ACT commands, which Ralsei himself implies is a "unique talent to Kris", and therefore is more about OUR influence than Kris', and the sun, representing the light and lightners. Aside from the first two letters, which show hands with 1 and 2 fingers up respectively, everything is a direct summary the key components of the prophecy of Deltarune. And yes, this may just be a coincidence, but consider the fact that if Gaster didn't write all of his text in all-caps, or Toby decided to pick ANY other name than "Gaster", say that contained a M, N, L, J, K, O, P, Q, X, Y, Z, B, or a couple others, the name would not makr any sense in connection with the prophecy at all. If you think that connecting the pointing hand to Kris and the player is a stretch, imagine if his name had a random bomb, waving flag, or smiley face in it. Point is, I think it's reasonable to assume Toby knows what he's doing anf has at least SOME reason for the name choice. Whether this is the reason or not, we SHOULD be looking into it more I feel.

Water and music make me think about The Tempest, I wonder what it would look like to parallel the play to Deltarune. Perhaps Gaster is Prospero, Dess as Ariel?

Onion also mentions wanting to start a band in Undertale, if you go back. I am sure it is just a throwaway thing, but it is interesting that music does come up in both games.

7:20 Riverperson is clearly Ralsei, just look how he first appeared

Suspicious Waves

That's pretty cool, but have you ever heard of Woody theory

I do have a see some connection of ocean and water with deltarune. If you look at some of the unused song files, there a song file that sound like waves from a beach. Also ocean has been associated with the subconscious and dreams.

I think it's from the dark world... the ocean can be so big and vast that when you go deep enough there are places without light or even oxygen for that matter

(unrelated) i can hardly explain but the riverperson really has the same vibe of the snail shamans from hollow knight

Thanks.

good video

Oh silly, The River Person is Ralsei wearing his hood ;) Ralsei IS mysterious, like River Person.

My first thought on hearing about a song from the sea was like a siren's song drawing you in and dragging you down

23:35 the song is called "It's Raining Somewhere Else" ??? I heard a youtuber call it that and I assumed they had the title wrong. I thought it was just "It's Raining Somewhere" (entirely because of Undertale the Musical)

very chill vid, i liked the meditative aspect until the raining somewhere else bit lol i promise you have unironically ruined any chance of me taking any theory around that song seriously lmao

Why not "Undertale"? It's played on guitar, which makes it linked to Dess; it uses the Asriel's theme leitmotiv, which has a heavy nostalgic impact; and the music that plays during Sans judgement in UT, conveniently named "The Choice", is a slowed down version of it, which connects "Undertale" to Deltarune's thematics. That's also, according to him, the song that Toby worked on the most during UT dev, changing it a lot for it to be perfect. The only argument I found against my hypothesis is the absence of connection with water/ocean. Do some of you guys have any other evidence to add, wether in favor or against my train of thoughts? I'd be interested to see it.

PENUMBRA PHANTASM !! It is Penumbra Phantasm

The old song from the sea might be coming from the underground.. maybe referring to waterfall? that still exists in the deltarune universe?

Tra la la Nice video Tra la la

I LOV DRLTARUNE THEORIES

Lore of The Mystery of Deltarune's Old Song from the Sea momentum 100

I’m sorry, Woody Theory is all powerful

kingdom hearts🤝deltarune Darkness=Ocean=Sleep=Death

Can’t be a deltarune theory without connecting Dess and Gaster

@4:53-.-I have never thought that this line referred to Gaster, and always thought this connection was a stretch. Entry 17 does uses all caps, and the hands that are all on the capital letters, which include the two most common letters in english, making them appear quite frequently, and technically "hands" is the most common motif in the font, I don't think any of this, even combined, necessarily makes hands the most notable thing about the font. Well hands are the most common motif, there are still only six hand characters (haha number associated with Gaster haha), it's only the most common because the symbols in the font are all over the place. And let's be honest, if this line of dialogue wasn't in the game, would anyone be associating the font with hands that strongly? Will there be any reason to associate Gaster with hands? I just think this is an incredibly tenuous connection. Like think of it from the perspective of intentionally trying to light a piece of dialogue that references Gaster, specifically through referencing the font he uses. Is "speaking in hands" really the phrasing you would go with? Is it even a top 10 contender? I wouldn't think so. I would go with something more like "the man who writes in decipherably", or "the man who speaks like a dingbat" (referencing WingDings category as a dingbat font). I don't know what would compel Toby to use this wording. And please don't mention how it would make it "too obvious", as if most of the things that connect to gangster aren't that obvious.

Somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand, and maybe you covered this in your It’s Raining Somewhere Else video, but given the common theory that UT sans is actually from deltarune, maybe the “Somewhere Else” is deltarune and we’ll get a track called “It’s Raining” in a future chapter

DecEnder