The Narcissism Continuum. From Normal to Pathological. Narcissistic Personality Disorder NPD Expert 

They do want to hurt people. Whether is to have power or whatever, they do hurt you.

Awful but true. Then the person can feel the anger they were not able to feel long ago, only it becomes self-directed because they are hurting someone they respect and identify with: their lover. And then when the lover takes it, like they they themselves did as a child, the lover becomes the weak, disgusting part of themselves that did not fight back. Thereby deserving punishment.

Hi Rune, interesting observation. I agree, with a few (large) caveats. I should preface this by saying that my mother is on the narcissist spectrum and that the following postulations are from personal observation only. I would inclined to agree that the pain suffered at the hands of a narcissist is "emotional" in nature, rather than calculated (or as you said "effective"). I have seen this many times before - how my mother will harrass my father with the aim of projecting her own feelings os inadequacy and pain onto him. HOWEVER, where-as the psychopath sets out explicitly to cause the suffering of his victim, the narcissist will do so only when provoked or "triggered" into connecting with their own pain and cannot stand the shame of their own feelings - thus sensing their *only* option for self-preservation is to belittle another. Often the narcissist wants the abuse to stop, for them to be loved/adored/accepted again, but sees no way of doing this (seeing as apologising and accepting responsibility is out of the question) so they dig their way deeper until they have convinced absolutely everyone that they, in fact, are the victim. Their aim is not to harm the other person for the sake or enjoyment, but to avoid their own feelings of shame. Where-as a psychopath may prefer power and fear from his victim, a narcissist prefers power and adoration and so will likely avoid these conflicts if they can. A good example of this is something I witnessed only a few months ago. My mother, having been triggered into some feeling of inadequacy, launched a mighty attack on me and my father. After the initial burst of anger, she wailed in the other room for some good time. She did not, in fact, want to continue the "attack" (despite having the power to do so) but rather wanted to maintain her "defence" (loudly enough for us both to hear). On the arrival of a friend (unknowing of the situation) she perked right up, content that she could rely on him for some form of validation. Her abuse was not focussed on the suffering of my father, which she dropped easily on the arrival of our friend, but rather on her own feelings of validation. When the friend left, she continued to be happy for the rest of the night, avoiding all mention of the discomfort she had caused. She took no pride in the abuse, but would resort to it if she felt she had to in order to avoid pleasant feelings. Her focus never was on the happiness or suffering of my father, but on her own happiness and suffering. That's just my two cents. EDIT: I am referring to benign narcissists (as with this video) rather than malignant narcissists.

That's interesting Ted. I have had a different experience, which makes sense given Ross' differentiation between the different 'types' of narcissist.

I hear you. What I am saying is that I have been brought up by someone who shares enough of the characteristics described by SaralaBlossom to be considered a narcissist, but that her behaviours differ in some ways from the description so as to be considered another form of narcissist. This is in-keeping with Ross Rosenberg's observations about different forms and degrees of narcissism.

Could you please tell me what I am not understanding? As far as I can see, you have only encountered one type of narcissist, therefore you think only one type exists. I've encountered a different type so I'm inclined to think different variations exist. Did I miss anything?

Sorry to hear that, and yet, I'm glad you posted as that was similar to my experience.

NPD primary motivation is to make themselves feel good about who they are, not to hurt people. They often cast themselves into the hero or good guy persona, but just in their mind. When they hurt someone, it is because that person made them feel bad about themselves. It is not motivated by the need to hurt others just because they can. However, a subcategory of narcissists, Malignant Narcissists combine both the sociopathy and the narcissism in one big package. They are rare, but the most destructive.

Thank you.

Ross Rosenberg Narcissists do have the sadistic tendency of enjoyment in the humiliation of the other.

He lives for his "tendencies." I am divorcing him after 12 years of hell. I have told my family and friends if something happens to me to not believe the suicide note.

Thank you Jill. He ignores court orders with zero accountability and zero consequence.

Yes, NPD's and BPD's can care for someone, but it is a distorted love. As long as the person can make them feel good about themselves, they feel attachment/love for that person. But it is fragile love, as when their narcissistic needs are not met or challenged, they strike back and hurt the people they most love. In other words, from a subjective point of view they love deeply. From an objective point of view, it is a one-sided and selfish love. They just don't know it.

So insightful, thank you.

Ross Rosenberg It looks like "care", but its not for the other person its for them selves. What looks like "care" is actually securing their own narcissistic supply. There is a big difference from normal care witch involve empathy. Its actually all about egocentrism.

How true. In fact, there is a category for narcissists who change our world: Productive Narcissists. www.maccoby.com/Articles/NarLeaders.shtml

Thanks, I do believe most

of us can use the "bad" about us for "good"

***** I think it depends on the harm these people do. Most people put on personalities,that's human. Look at pop stars, I have no idea who Lana Del Ray really is, I'm still a huge fan because I love the characters she presents herself as. Is she doing harm, no she's entertaining us and doing very well out of that but when people in power tell lies and it does harm that's bad and they should be shown up for who they are.

***** I see your point about reality stars, some are even famous for being drunk. Lana Del Ray does it with thought,art and talent, most celebs just losers with a camera crew. I talk to my kids about how sad these people are but they are bad role models. I have a different character on line and use different voices to write in, I am trying to be a mini celeb. I don't know how much real talent I really have, that's up to my readers to decide. We must not go too far but I enjoy it. My daughter laughs at You Tube characters with more overdone hair than brains, everyone needs to learn to laugh and these people need to grow up.