I bought a pair [consecutive serial numbers] of U87s from Neumann in 1976. They have worked to perfection 47 years and remain my favorite vocal microphone ever. So, to the poster claiming they are overpriced, he may not be aware of that characteristic of Neumann microphones. 47 years of heavy use; live on stage, hung as MS pairs, 80 hour weeks in the studio; nothing has ever changed. I take good care of them but many a cheaper microphone, including my C414s, 412s, etc, have needed repairs numerous times. If this sounds like it would make you happy, it’s something to consider.
I have a pair of U87's and I have been using them for many years now. The most remarkable thing about them is when you use them on a lead vocal in a song with multiple instruments and then go to mix. The vocal recorded on the U87 just seems to "fits" in the mix perfectly, requires minimal processing (if any) and sounds like a record. When you listen to the U87 on a solo vocal by itself, it may not sound remarkable. In fact, solo vocals on many less expensive condenser mics might sound better by themselves, but when you go to mix that vocal in with everything else, that's when the U87 really shines. That cheaper condenser mic now usually sounds harsh, and will require equalization to sound good, but the U87 will sound fine, as is, with nothing else needed. That allows you to work faster and is why professionals love the U87. If you buy a used one, my advice is to be sure it contains a genuine Neumann capsule and not a 3rd party "reskinned" capsule as those never sound the same.
Very interesting seeing your recording process, and great hearing your guitar and voice through these classic mics. Thank you for sharing Mary. Keep up the fantastic work.
Bring back memories of working in the professional sound recording studio before the days of digital. At the end of a session the Neuman's, and Sennheiser's always went back into the cases. Then the cases into the vault.
U87 can be so magical! I mostly record classical/jazz/acoustic music and find myself using an old one like yours quite a bit, though it’s not my first reach. I’m very partial to nice small diaphragm condensers, because in addition to the sweet sound, they tend to render the room (or any other instruments in it) in a very uniform way. Schoeps mk4 or 5, DPA 4011, all great choices. Vintage Neumann KM54 *chefs kiss*
I sropped measuring time when I am recording. I just look out the window and see if the sun is coming up yet.....it always does. Love the comfey jumper.
I always loved being able to use U87s back in my engineering days. Seeing you use them made me wish I could have used them on more sessions, but the studio I worked at wasn't busy enough for me to be able to pay the bills.
I believe the original U87 had the Telefunken Valve Preamp within - they discontinued production and they then converted the Mic to a FET Transistor Amp.
Back when I went to audio engineering school... uh... jeez almost 20 years ago... we had the opportunity to use these mics a number of times. Always sounded great. I never really embraced engineering as an profession but still record frequently, with lesser mics. Maybe I'll get my hands on a beat up pair of these again someday.
Mary you are a true artist. I’m so envious of your finger style playing. I’m a 77 yr young newbie hacking away at basic cords & a few pentatonic scales but just cannot get the coordination for finger style. I really like the effect that it displays. It appears that your using your thumb on a down stroke and upstroke picking with your first, second & third fingers, yes/no? I’m just exploring my way attempting to land on a method that I feel comfortable with and can progress further along in my musical journey. I’m have an acoustic & an electric Telecaster. You’re amazing 😊
Hi Mary, the U87 has always been my dream-mike but I am not rich enough for two of them (I always wanted to have a pair for recording stereo). So three years ago I bought two TLM 107's for half the price of one U87. They have the same diaphragms as the U87 but due to the missing transformer (TLM=TransformerLessMicrophone) they have quite a lower output. But if you compensate in the preamp, you can't hear a difference. I compared it in a studio. As always a beautiful video - thank you! Thomas
U 87 is hands down top microphone I've ever worked with - I had been privileged to borrow it several times for my studio sessions. I have a music studio and I used to produce bands and I had a friend who was borrowing me a stereo pair of U 87s no less. I have bought the TLM 193 which is significantly cheaper - I got it in 2011 for about 800 eur + 50 for a rip off of a Neuman shock absorber and even the TLM has served me fantastic although the U 87 has no comparison on the high end. If your budget allows you, you can not go wrong with this microphone. The only thing then is if perhaps it does not suit your particular voice. Some people like to experiment and try different microphones on singers and determine which suits them best.
I loved your candid way to share this experience. I take from watching it that I need to be way more patient, handle the preparations and testing as a craftsman does, no rushing or skipping steps, checking more details that I usually do. Thank you!
Very interesting, Mary. I play guitar (mostly electric), but I'm not even a real musician, so I enjoy seeing how this sort of thing is done by someone who knows what they're doing. Thanks for the "behind the scenes" look.
Of course without testing, can't say for sure, but I would hazard a guess and say the vocal mic was picking up a reflected sound from a table or whatever you might have had in front of you when you did your mic level testing. The vocal mic backside is pointing towards the floor or table or whatever, vs the guitar mic backside is pointing towards the ceiling.
Mary, I’ve also been on a mic quest for guitar and vocals and I think I’ve settled on active ribbon mics. For the price of 1 Neumann U87 you can get 2 amazing ribbon mics and I feel you get a much better result.
I've been in the process of self recording my next album for the last year and a half, and this video was invaluable for the information it gave me on mic setup for me and my acoustic. Thank you!
Nice video Mary. I would record vocals and guitar with a higher input level, at least for what I saw from your Logic screen. Acoustic sounds (vocals included) are better recorded with a higher signal to noise ratio.
Thanks for sharing your experience with these mics! Some caveats, the Neumann's are expensive! However, an entry level large diaphragm condenser mic can be had for under 100 and well worth it, since it will probably outperform your dynamic mic, in the same price range. A mixer/preamp with phantom power is necessary, and not hard to find. These mics are so sensitive, you cannot really use them with PA due to feedback, they are only for recording. Definitely try a Mid/Side mic (M/S) configuration with two mics! Position the mics together such that the response lobes are perpendicular, then use your mixer or post software to adjust the stereo separation, balance, and pan. Positioning with that technique would probably be easier, sound better, and provide more flexibility in editing!
To have 'zero' crosstalk you should have tip of guitar mic pointed directly at your mouth and the tip of the voice mic pointed directly at the guitar, the midpoint between the F holes, with the seam in line with the axis of the neck. The Neumann U87 definitely doesn't look "just like a Telefunken U47."
Mary, it's great that you've invested in the two U-87s, as they are expensive, and I know you want to have one for vocal and one for guitar, but honestly, I would use two smaller diaphragm mics (such as a Bruel & Kjaer pair or Schoeps, or two AKG C-451s) on the guitar simultaneously with the U-87 on vocal.
Nice! I'm baffled microphones from that age sound so precise! I can hear a lot of details from the guitar with my T5p headphones. I see you remember geometry: with mikes perpendicular to each other and sources directed towards them, you get the best separation. Maybe not the best comfort, but an engineer always finds a good compromise.
Before anyone gets carried away with buying very expensive mics I suggest that their money can be better spent on acoustical treatment of the recording space and making sure they have the best electronic signal chain and recording equipment they can afford. Mary has the advantage of being in the "land of Neve" because the Brits (especially Neve) are known for being a great source for good mic Preamps (Neve preamps have been known as the gold standard in mic preamps for decades). The next item of concern are the A/D (analog to digital) convertors, no they aren't all the same. Next channel EQ, once again the Brits are known for having the best channel EQ and anyone recording in a European language will want at least digital electronics with algorithms that mimic the really good Brit EQ curves. And last, but not least is using the highest sample rate (assuming digital recording) available that your digital equipment can support (more bits = more accuracy).
the best indicator during creative endeavours that I am indeed onto something - I lose track of time. I think I've been writing for half an hour, but two hours are gone. I decide to paint for an hour and four hours evaporate. it feels really good...
This video took me back to my days as a wannabe Rock Star in my Parent's garage with my buddies as we learned how to play music together. Seemed our only problem at the time was making sure we didn't knock the power out of my Parents house AND that we had everyone there WITH amps and equipment! We never worried about those "other things" such as clarity or sound.🤣 We ended up playing together for a few years and getting paid to do gigs for friends. We entered a Battle Of The Bands and got 3rd place out of 18 Bands. Then life hit as in marriages and kids. So when you showed up Mary, I smiled and thought "Cool, I can at least Ride on Your bus" Awesome Informative video! Cheers From Ohio 🎶🎸🎤🎧
I record using a variety of condenser, dynamic, ribbon mics including Neumann, Rode, EV, Shure the “dirty little secret” is it always depends on what you are doing and what you want. don’t forget the preamp factor in your experiments. Buy what you can afford and trust your ears not someone else’s opinion
Professional engineer here! Hey, I don't hear any phasing and that's the most important thing lol. You certainly could have moved the vocal mic forward a bit and tilted it up some more but I give your mic placement a solid 8/10! Not many ways to get much better than that. I make my living in Logic Pro, cool to see you using it. Great DAW!
Have you tried the trick with 2 figure 8 mics? Position them head to head, on end such that they’re horizontal, but rotate them 90 degrees so the patterns both interact & cover more.
Wonderful sound from that Epiphone! It reminds me of my old Swedish Levin guitar 😍 And of course, your voice and the microphone just glues everything together 💯 Love to see more of this 🙏
Any machinist worth a chip, or any truly expert watchmaker, would say that the time needed for setup is often much longer than that required to perform the desired task. Good job, Mary.
A classic! I bought a Warm Audio WA87 for vocals on my new record - I'll never be able to afford a Neumann, and it's a beautiful replica. So if you're hankering after the Neumann but don't have the pennies, check it out! :)
A neumann tlm103 has the same capsule as an 87 and is much cheaper. The downside is you can’t switch the polar paterns. If you record without effects like in this example it would probably be fine. But if you want to use effects on the vocals and guitar it might be difficult to record without voice/guitar bleed.
Two of those captured the whole sound from John Bonham's drums on "Physical Graffiti". I'll be the last to complain on how they delivered :) Nice video.
I've found Neumann and Schoeps tend to have a low intrinsic noise floor, but disregarding (often intentional) humps in their frequency response, can't say they sounded any better than cheaper equivalents (around the £750+ mark - below that and quality does suffer). But you can't beat the feeling of playing through them - sort of connects you to history..
Sounds great Mary. 2 figure 8s completely sideways on the same axis would be the most isolated, but would not necessarily sound the best. Sometimes a bit of bleed is good!
Bought my first U87 in the late 70s, when $800.00 seemed like a huge amount of money. I think I paid a little over 450.00 for a C414 around the same time. Something about that mic that seems to work for many clients, sort of like an old p bass!
I found this setup to be one of the most tricky things to record because of phase issues (which become more obvious with compression added in post) - I didn't have the time to try it yet but next time I'll record vocals & acoustic I'll keep both U87 head to head horizontally oriented, ca. 90 degree twisted: one pointing at the guitar, one at the singer. This way there shouldn't be phase issues for the off-axis spill... Beautiful guitar!
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The vintage Neumann U87 is one of the most used LDC mics in recording studios on the planet. It's a classic now becoming out of reach for most except those with deep pockets. Nothing sounds exactly like it, but someone will eventually get it right. The gap is getting smaller every year between the real deal and clones. Most people can't tell the difference except for the trained ears of music professionals (Engineers, Producers, and Musicians). I am comparing a vintage U87 from the early 80's, which is fully serviced and maintained to some of my less expensive large diaphragm condensers mics. The differences are subtle but there, ie. the mids and the air (The infamous 1%). Unfortunately, the price being asked for it is not within my means. I am looking into STAM audio SA87 as they get consistently excellent reviews. I have a friend who has purchased a few of their mics and swears by them. Until I can afford a U87 this will have to do.
i loved this video, Mary. It's always great to see you on your journey, as you continually refine your craft, expand and broaden your horizons and share useful insights on all of it with us. Your improv test recording was delightful :-). The U87s have been on my wish list forever. Someday. May end up picking up a pair of Warm Audio WA87s and calling it a day. Thanks again for posting!
Detailed technical insight into a process. The guitar,in the accompanying video, sings with a lovely clarity. Your voice would sound good anywhere,recorded on anything, engineered by anyone.
A very helpful, well produced video. In the last month I recorded myself with solo guitar for the first time. I have recorded others before but I recorded myself with original songs for the first time. I have been recorded while playing in a band before but I found the "red light fever" was much worse when recording myself solo (but I got through it). I found (for me) it was more difficult than it looks. I've always loved your music and recordings and after my experience, I appreciate them even more. Thanks!
I noticed you scratched placing the guitar for the microphone near the f-holes and moving it near the neck! Much brighter sound and I like it! I did a studio session in Washington, D.C using a 1976 Ovation guitar I had and they actually miked the sound hole and near the neck both to blend the two and came up with a nice sound for a very bright sounding guitar!
Hi Mary, that sounded great and your microphone positioning is excellent for what you are doing. A little bit of advice from a sound engineer of 40 years in the industry (live and studio) and owner of over 100 microphones, I would not bother spending that sort of money on U87s as main microphones. In their day they were ubiquitous but many engineers hate them but had no choice but to use them and they had to spend a lot of effort getting the sound they wanted. The U87 has a nasty midrange peak as well as rolled off low and high frequency. The midrange peak brings out the vocal or the instrument's presence and it can seem a good thing at first and somewhat exciting, but after listening to it a while that midrange becomes annoying. I own a pair of Neumann TLM170s and brand new, they are probably cheaper than vintage the U87s. The TLM170 has a superior low end, flatter high end and much less midrange nastyness. You can always eq the TLM170 to emphasise the midrange, you can filter out the low end etc., but it's really hard to get rid of the tonal characteristics of the U87. I sold my two U87s and my U67 (because it's just a softer version of the same sound). I go to the TLM170 or the Sony C48 for vocals and, if I'm feeling generous, my Gefell UM75 which is one of the most flattering vocal mics I've heard. The UM75 is a remake of an even earlier Neumann and only 75 were made. I hire mics and many people ask to hire a U87 for vocals. When I still had the U87s I would send them that and a Sony C48 and let them choose. EVERY time they chose the C48!
There's no one right way but if you're looking for separation, I'd suggest a better technique..... one I use often. In fig 8 mode, the side of the mic rejects everything, so if you position both mics sideways. The guitar mic facing the guitar and the side of the mic facing your mouth. The vocal mic positioned in such a way that it's side is facing the guitar. Using this technique you can get an amazing amount of separation.
❤ Love my old faithful U87’s, KM184’s & M147. Also love equally and even more so, my amazing Avantone CV12, my AKG 414’s, and my AudioTechnica 4033’s. Point is, you really don’t need to drop 5 grand on just one mike in this day and age. There are so many great alternatives now, many costing mere hundreds. Let’s keep it real, huh?
LOL... Mary, you just did what I have always wanted to do, like since I ever started playing. With my ear down as a kid on the bout of my Gibson. I was "in" the guitar hearing otherworldly beauty. Thanks. Great Video. The great Mic of my childhood was the Telefunken U47. And, I may never sing... but, never say never! Great Video and so encouraging!
Hi - Thanx for posting this insight to your experimentarium. So many traps'n'treasures to meet, avoid and enjoy. Quite demanding to record alone, isn't it. At the same time also very free almost weightless. . Have Fun Heps from Copenhagen
I have a great deal of respect and admiration for your artistry and attitude, Mary, but please don't perpetuate the myth that gear makes a difference for most of us... it only makes a difference for a very rarified few! I've been recording in my "home studio" since the late 70's. I ended up with a cherished, rare, and classic 70's version of the U-87 (NOT the more modern U-87ai) when the radio chain I was working at switched all their studios to RE20's and were going to throw out all the existing mics (I also got several original Sennheiser MD421's and an original Shure SM7...before the SM7b). We had been using the U-87 in the main studio since the late 70's. I rescued it from the scrap heap, used it for several years, then sold it for enough money to buy a motorcycle. Back in the day, nothing could touch a U-87... nowadays, there are quite a few reasonably-priced mics that come pretty damned close! In fact, today, you can set up a studio system with gear that would almost rival the biggest studios of the 70's and early 80's for less than it would have cost back then to record a single! It's a mixed blessing, though... on the one hand, it allows many talented and creative artists to release amazing art made in their bedroom (read 'Finneas' who recorded Billy Eilish's early vocals on a $100 AT2020)... on the other hand, it allows people who aren't (yet?) talented enough to produce anything radio-ready to believe all they need is the right equipment to be a star (not suggesting you're one of them!) Welcome to Dunning Kruger Studios! Remember, just like Eric Clapton playing a $120 knock-off sounds better than most of us playing a Custom Shop or genuine vintage 50's Strat or Les Paul, you could give Steve Lillywhite, George Martin, Quincy Jones or Mutt Lange an SM57 and a Tascam 4-track on cassette and they'd end up with a better result than most of us would recording at Muscle Shoals, Electric Lady, Sunset, or Abbey Road! IT'S NOT THE GEAR, folks!! Just go record stuff on whatever you have... it's the ONLY way you'll get better!
Several observations: Very unusual to record vocals on the figure of 8 pattern, unless there are two vocalists facing each other. Cardioid is much more common for a single vocal due to better back rejection. Figure of 8 has a narrower pickup from the front, tighter side rejection but picks up equally from the rear, potentially getting much more room. U87's are not a flat response microphone. It is a sound quality that we are used to. It does have a presence boost that some find pleasing but it's not as necessary as it was when the microphone was introduced. Make sure that a vintage U87 has been properly maintained. Caps age and capsules can be contaminated and need to be cleaned occasionally, even in clean environments. Back in the 80's the studio I worked with had a U87 that sounded terrible on almost every source, which I later traced to some defective components in the preamp. I had and still have a matched pair of AKG 414's I've always used for neutral sound on almost every source I've used them on. They don't have a presence boost and I don't miss it particularly with current tech preamps and digital recording. Recording chains of the past had considerable high frequency losses due to analog processing and tape recording so pre boosting the top end was helpful to the final quality. With all of the great mics, with much better technical specs, on the market today I would find it very hard to justify the costs of a U87. I would recommend the Roswell Pro Audio Mini K87 as a much lower cost alternative. Mics are tools not magic. If I need a presence boost, I add EQ.
I could not say it better. back when I was an engineer working in major LA studios, u87 was not first choice for most things it’s good but really that great. but putting it in figure 8 is the wrong choice for this recording Cardioid is the preferred vocal config as most pro engineers would advise
I`ve got one old U87 (not XLR out but Tuchel connector, I have to replace it) and it`s killer mic ! Mine looks like veteran but sounds amazing. It works on polish language, wich got a lot of sibilants. only Chandler TG Mic do the same ;-)
What is not so important, the microphone, the guitar, the room, the downscaling of fidelity to streaming media standards. What is important, your talent, your performance, your infectious energy and drive, your ability to connect with your audience. Don't be distracted by shiny objects...
Everything that’s said about the quality of Neumann mics is true. This said it is the same with speakers and mics: room acoustics and positioning is 100 times more important than the mic. A 100,- halfway decent mic or speaker will sound way better used the right way than the most expensive and best mic or speaker positioned and used the wrong way. A Neumann used the right way will sound a bit better than way cheaper mics. People who don’t have a treated room or know what to do with the acoustics when using a mic will be disappointed when investing into an expensive mic to get better results. A great mic like the U87 might even make it worse. But yes: Neumann mics are great, even the less expensive ones like the TLM 103 and 102. I know some will hate me for this, but the TLM 103 gives you about 95% of the U87. It just has a bit less body and richness compared to the U87 in direct comparison.
Neumann seem to be the mic of choice. When watching Mary McCartneys documentary on Abbey Road studios last week I noticed they had a few of those Neumann U-87's
I've been reading interviews with audio engineers for years now to try to learn a bit about how this or that recording was made, and it's noticeable how seldom the U87 (or its modern counterpart, the U87ai) is mentioned. It's a well made and famous mic, and definitely it has been the vocal mic used on various hit recordings - although perhaps not on some of your favourites. It's a great mic, a workhorse as they say, but many audio engineers will bypass it when it comes to vocals if there are other decent options available.
Hi Mary, Great sound, the U87 is a beautiful sounding mic.... another setup you could try is to use the 2 U87's in an XY configuration one inverted on top of the other, one facing the guitar sound hole the other at a 45 degree angle to recorded the guitar and use a 3rd mic with a pop shield to record the vocal but bring it closer into you for a more intimate sound. the XY setup can then be panned to widen the guitar sound. your setup is great this would be different.
Thank you for not being one of those people who say "you don't need an expensive microphone all you need is a 200 dollar mic" well this is true, but nothing beats the sound quality of a Neumann u87 I CAN DEFINITELY TELL the sound quality difference between a u87 and a cheaper microphone I mean sure most people listen to music on RU-vid Spotify or MP3 so sure a 200 dollar microphone is just "good enough" to record vocals
Memories. All the vocals I did for Ruth White were on an RCA ribbon mic. It always surprised me with everyone screaming about the superiority of condensers that Stevie Wonder did so well with an EV RE-20.
