Th knights have a unique role in the Empire roster: The other units are pretty much all shock or skirmish cavalry. This is melee cavalry which can actually survive in prolonged combat.
If you have the chapter house of the knights on tier 4 they get a great buff. A skill that prevents that models die until you are beneath 50% of there health pool. Combine that with the fact they are heavy melee cavalry build for direct combat. You could combine them with shock cavalry to soften up the fronline first, then throw the black rose knights in to bind them in combat while you use your shock cavalry for attacking there back for an hammer and anvil strategy.
@@DarkFenix2k5 Agreed. Giving it a Talisman of Preservation is going to make it a significantly more dangerous unit, and there's a bunch of other items and ancillaries that will make it a scary thing to deal with
Note that in campaign if you get the landmark building for knights of the black rose, they get a pretty significant buff by being unkillable untill total unit health is below 50 %.
This! The reason why they perform nearly equal to just one gun in the tank is their narrow bullet-spread... with only a handful of models in the killzone per salvo, the regular hellblaster is giving up their numbers advantage...
Ive seen other folks talk about the Knghts and I think theyve filled the role other point to which is dedicated melee cav, the type that you charge into weaker infantry and keep them there for a bit to help hold the line, rather than shock/charging cav that the empire already has a fair amount of
My Take on the knights of morr is that They're really good for either messing with infantry charges or just trying up your opponents backline/flanks for a really, really long time owing to the fact that they have a huge defense rating combined with immune to psychology, which gives them a really useful niche in an army who'se melee options are generally craptacular.
thats crazy though, most of all battles are fought on land anyways, and that would be such an insane overhaul, it would require and entire different dedicated team, and you have to remember that this is the last installment in the trilogy, the best thing they can do now is improve the game, (which we know already needs a lot of it) but the game itself is still great and the naval battles like many people have been saying for years is not necessary.
Hopefully steal faith overhaul mod keeps both variants of Nuln ironsides. Because it would be cool to have the dlc version as tier 3 and have the repeaters rifles as a tier 4 or 5 unit.
9:09 I tested the Helblaster Volley Guns in the past and one thing i did see was that they often focus the same models. Which means 1 Gun is attacking a unit model and shortly later another gun is shooting at the same model, which most of the time misses because the model is already dead because of the first gun. I guess that is why the Steam Tank version isn't far behind damage wise. They also do that in your Video.
Hey guys, i just wanted to say that im so proud and happy for the team at The Great Book of Grudges, I loved warhammer growing up and when i came across lore videos it was hard to find them, and if you did then people kind of just talked through it, but instead The Great Book of Grudges team actually takes the time to explain everything, they narrate with passion, and ive been following your content for years and i remember saying you guys were gonna blow up and in a few short years you guys did and i just wanna say thank you, you guy deserve it and most of all i love the way you this team portrays the lore with so much passion, and detail. its amazing.
"The Landship is tier 4, I was expecting it to be tier 5 like the Steam Tank" The literal lore reason for the landship's existence is that it's easier to manufacture than a Steam Tank
The Nuln Ironsides being a smaller unit with a similar fire rate can be useful when it comes to getting them the clear lines of fire needed for gunpowder units. And the Hochland Long Rifles have one major advantage... they start with stalk and snipe, so they can and will be able to shoot from a long way off without being detected, which will straight up win them a lot of engagements with other missile troops, and will allow for some really nasty ambushes or flanking manoeuvres against enemy forces
One thing I will say that puts the landship a bit above the Steam tank, the landship's ammo only counts for the forward facing cannons, the repeater gunners have unlimited ammo, just as the Steam tank's turret has unlimited ammo. So once the Steam tank exhausts it's ammo, the landship is able to continue doing more damaged, as the main cannons on it are really there as an anti-large option.
Black rose are awesome. They have a lot of staying power. So you could make an entire front line of Black Rose instead of halberdiers or greatswords. Then use shock cav for hammer and anvil.
Im pretty excited for ironsides just being better gunners and having the long rifles. I still wish empire had a solid front line but we can't have it all
They will buff the witch hunter in the 5.0 patch with the grim resolve passive in melee which gives immunity to psychology to allied units around him in a 50 m radius so they have turned him into a pseudo grail relic and with accusation as well he will be great anywhere in the Empire's formation.
Honestly I really appreciate the more lopsided, specialized factions more than the ones that have something for every possible role these days. Gives their playstyle a lot more character in my experience. If every faction could do everything they'd risk blurring together to an extent.
9:15 Since Patch 4.1 Artillery will pretty much just focus fire the same Model in a unit, you can see it here pretty clearly, the Hellblasters are massively overkilling a couple zombies at a time.
Suggestion to fix the Empire General: Give them mutually exclusive Order Membership options: Panther, Blazing Sun, Reiksguard, Morr, etc. These can provide a character buff AND a thematic buff to Empire Knights where appropriate.
I was about to comment that the ironsides would burn through ammo faster than handgunners, and that was their downside, but no, they have almost 50% more ammo to compensate. They really are just a straight up upgrade. I...I'm not sure how feel about that honestly. I like having direct fire unit that can be a frontline, like the infernal guard with fireglaives, but the blunderbusses had their own advantages to compensate, notably their batshit insane damage output.
They have 60 models so their damage output is actually worse. They are a more expensive downgrade for 40 armor. Reload speed has a hard cap due to animations and can be increased through chevrons, so at highest tier for both units, handgunners outdamage them
Empire does have a cav lord, surprisingly it`s Volkmar, he gives wayfarer to knights and new cav changes make cav benefit big time from any speed buffs
You wont skip handgunners because handgunners are unlocked in the tier 2 building chain and ironsides are tier 3. You'll be relying on handgunners until you can get a settlement to tier 3.
@TheGreatBookofGrudges Now I've heard you mention it a couple of times in your latest videos and just want to point out that we already have the Knights of Morr as Elector Count State Troops. Also as far as I can tell from pictures I've seen, Elspeth has an increased access to them (unlocks recruitment and mercenary replenishment) through the Temple of Morr building in the Gardens of Morr mechanic. Just thought I'd let you know :)
12 types of steam tanks?!?! Dang, that is a nice amount of variety. This makes me think that out of all the factions we have seen so far that the Empire is the one with the most potential new units that can be added to its unit roster.
Yeah, poor Marcus himself feels *okay* to me as a LL, but most of the innovations and new stuff that came out with him kinda flopped and his campaign feels unsupported to me. Then again, being completely surrounded by horrifying enemies with nothing but gunpowder and the courage of men to see you through is the most Empire thing imaginable.
@@raynightshade8317 there can only be one apex predator in the jungle, and Markus is their top contender lol. Jokes aside yeah having played his campaign religiously since that dlc launched, it's becoming crazier and crazier in Lustria. And I love it
I never played the tabletop version, but the knights of the rose look sick! Think about in medieval time a unit like that is your enemy! I would run just because of their Armor!
I might be alone on this but I really hate when they pump out a virtual 1 for 1 of an existing unit in a factions roster like the ironsides and its just a "pay us to have better stats" deal. Same idiot thing they did with Akshina \ Streltsky at SOC launch.
God, the Landship is so much fun! Turn the acceleration on and just charge it around at random. The AI does everything it can to run its units out of the way, and then I come around the sides with my cav and catch them mid- movement and it's just over 😂
Different steam tanks could be implemented as upgrades to regular steam tanks. Like, when they get to a certain rank you could choose which variant it evolves too. Would be cool.
personally the one unit i really wish we had gotten was black guard of morr but they are already added to the game very well by mods and the other units/heroes/lords are quite nice, the empire desperately needed ironsides and long rifles as well as the engineers they are known for with the gunpowder roster. this update to the empire pleases me.
Knight of Morr are in the game since TWW2 "the hunter and the beast" august 2019 dlc as one of elector-count troops. Maybe knights black rose were chosen just to not overlap with existing knights of Morr.
The Landship is for me a must have. I'll try to get the right combination, so I can build up Rifles only Armies with canons, rifles and this Nice Landship, to Gund an ram the enemy down! The only melee will be the black rose Cavalary that will flank and protect missions.
I woulnd't call ironsides heavily armored, thats very medium at best. 60 is not a whole lot, dwarf quarrelers have more, cathay jade warrior crossbows etc. i'd call that high, 60 is very middle of the road.
I have a feeling the religious part of the empire will come with its final DLC when they bring Boris tod bringer and midland to the fore front (Then we will get chapter master, celestial hurricane, and upgraded warrior priests)
@@delta9915 Not just the hunters. Cult of Taal would probably be a more monstrous side to the Empire. Bears, Griffons, Great Stags. The main other Monstrous unit that would be with the Empire would be the Children of Ulric. Probably would wind up being reskinned skinwolves.
The land ship is great for shoot and scoot by using the full speed ability. Just ram straight into the guys normally and before they can surround you and you get to stuck in you hit the gas and get out of there. By the way how is the Amethyst version by comparison?
Would actually say, though that the biggest threat to a steam tank would be a metal wizard with plague of rust to lower its armor and final transmutation does a lot of damage to it
When I saw Master Engineers I was wondering if they were getting the "Druzhina Affect" that Kislev got in SoC where there's not 0 point in getting a Boyar (Or empire general in this case) with the addition of a Druzhina (and master engineers), atleast the huntsman generals still have use early in the game when it's really efficient to just build archer stacks and arch lectors are actually pretty good especially for Volkmar, but empire generals just got power crept and no longer have a place.
Maybe there is something wrong with me but the land ship just looks goofy to me and I really don't like it, but I am glad they added it since many people seem to like it.
Just remember this game has alot of hidden stats for units. Long rifles might not quite seem as good as the other snipers, but they might have better accuracy/calibration which is very powerful. Also, i dont think you can compare the volley tank and hel blaster volley guns, they both fill a completely different roll and from what ive seen, helblasters dish out way more damage as they should, being a differnt unit with a single purpose.
GreatBookofGrudges. I'm having a hell of a time deciding which faction to try first. I"ve not played either of these Order factions in WH3. I tried them in WH2 and was boooored. Help me decide which to try first.
Okay but unlike the other sniper units the long rifles have Snipe don't they? Which means that if they are hiding they won't reveal themselves when shooting which is probably something to mention
I already use 4 units of Handgunners as my main battle line protecting my artillery, with just a couple of units of melee infantry to guard their flanks and some cavalry to rear charge any enemy that survives to make contact. Nuln Ironsides will *definitely* be the new standard core unit for basically all my Empire armies going forwards, so the real question for me would be how they compare to Gunderman's Surefires with Karl Franz's new state troop-buffing trait? Putting Surefires on the line isn't their intended use, I know, but they do that job well thanks to their Decent Melee Combatant status. 🤔
I will never understand why they replaced the Ironsides repeater rifles for normal rifles, they’re just hand gunners now not much left that separates them
I wish they would have kept the repeaters. that test against zombies was barely better and making another unit useless isnt fun where a repeater would have opened up a different role
Can you do a video on what units have changes? I know a few have been changed but a lot of these videos just assume you already know what all the changes are.
The ironsides seem to be barely better than the regular hand gunners once you take into account the unit numbers(about a 37% increase overall) Not even taking into account the ten second wait for their passive to kick in to get to that point. But even from a visual point of view their volleys look weak and unsatisfying. Compare that while for every 2 volleys the ironsides let off, the handgunners 1 (while doing less damage overall) does damage to a unit in a larger chunk than the ironside's faster chipping away. The armor and and melee attack are too low to mean jack shit.
Imo if the lore actively makes the game more boring, then the lore is being more of a hinderance instead of a boon. They should have repeaters it would make the unit more unique while not just being a better handgunner. This with the kislev stuff from Shadow of Change will only continue to be a hindrance for the gqme in the future
I seriously doubt they made the change out of their own volition if it was implemented this late... I'd put 20 dollars on Games Workshop 'protecting their IP' by shooting the idea of Ironsides with Repeater Rifles down at the last minute.
I am happy to see the Master engineer be good. The other Empire Lord options are bland and uninteresting, I really hope they get an overhaul and massive buff so they are at least mildly interesting. I just feel nothing for any of them.
Empire Generals are still superb duelists once they get their big bird and can deal with enemy lords and heroes very easily, especially those small single entities that guns tend to have trouble with if they're mixed in the melee. Arch Lectors and Huntsmen Generals are kind of lacking a niche though... Huntsmen Generals at least make for good leaders of crap stacks.
Not gonna lie, I was hoping the longrifles would have came with Stalk at least. I mean it's fine it's just they're gonna get picked apart by artillery and Crane/Jezzails before getting into range.
I really don't know which campaign I'm going to run first, this DLC is looking great. I assume it'll be as overpriced as the last, but it's looking to be just as high quality at least.
Are you seriously surprised by that? The blogs were incredibly clear repeater rifles were out of the question for some reason. And given that CA clearly wanted to implement them in trailers and early builds of the game I'd bet Games Workshop stopped that particular party.
@@the_tactician9858 i am aware of that, i am just disappointed. I really hoped that Ironsides would be much cooler than just a 'better handgunner'...that's all
@@coaiemandushman1079 So did I... and I expect that CA is kinda disappointed too. But let's see if these units can have their place anyway. Having a unit just be a straight upgrade from a earlier unit doesn't have to be bad either.
