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The New & Improved Royal Heirs! (AoE2) 

Spirit Of The Law
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One of the upcoming changes in the next patch I'm most interested in is the new "Royal Heirs" effect. What sounds like an innocuous -3 damage taken from mounted units may be a much bigger deal than it sounds when you start looking into it. That's exactly what we'll be doing in this video!
0:18 Previous effect
1:05 Shotel Warrior overview
1:45 Shotel Warrior in Castle Age
5:55 Shotel Warrior in Imperial Age
8:45 Camel Riders in Castle Age
11:03 Heavy Camels in Imperial Age
12:45 Final thoughts
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition

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6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 374   
@laservsvecchiette
@laservsvecchiette Год назад
Arrow comes from a standing guy Gasp! Arrow comes from guy on a horse It's Shotiln time!
@omargoodman2999
@omargoodman2999 Год назад
Their royal blood won't tolerate mounted archers... looking down on them. [Rimshot]
@nathangamble125
@nathangamble125 Год назад
Shotiln?
@jayvishnuvenkatesh870
@jayvishnuvenkatesh870 Год назад
More like SotLin' time
@kodacv1612
@kodacv1612 Год назад
Ahahhaha nice one! xD Thanks for making my day ;:D
@Burgher1605
@Burgher1605 Год назад
Hahaha
@JJBeauregard1
@JJBeauregard1 Год назад
I think it's a really nice and strong buff for the lesser used units of the Ethiopians, what I don't like about effects like this is that they're not shown anywhere in the stats or with visual indicators or anything. I feel like there's already too much going on "behind the scenes" in AoE2 and adding to that really doesn't help.
@SuperD863
@SuperD863 Год назад
I have actually worked a lot with aoe2 mods in the past. One of the issues with displaying such things is the high number of armor classes (armor classes are things like pierce armor, melee armor, building armor etc.). One of the main issues here is that 1 unit doesn't have 1 armor class, but multiple. And the same is true for attack class types. I remember seeing some units (and buildings) which had a total of more than 12 classes (if we count attack and defense separately) which would have taken up a lot of space. Something I can recommend: go to the aoe2 game folder, in there is a folder called "Tools" where a software called "AdvancedGenieEditor" is located. This software can be used to view the real stats of units. It's quite enlightening to see the number of attributes and stats that define a unit.
@qwerty222999
@qwerty222999 Год назад
That's my concern as well. I think the hidden effect will result in players playing mind games with their opponent, by showing a few shotel warriors on the battlefield. You don't even have to research Royal Heirs to make a smart player turn around, because they are not willing to sacrifice their calvary to find out.
@astrid2432
@astrid2432 Год назад
@@qwerty222999 to be fair psychological warfare was used in the medieval time or even earlier
@llSuperSnivyll
@llSuperSnivyll Год назад
I completely agree. Especially in the bonus damage/armor department, as you are never informed of how much damage your unit deals to other units. And AoE's interface is incredibly simple - even on laptops there's enough space to list bonus damage/resistances.
@sjetong
@sjetong Год назад
I also dont like that they get +3 defense against mounted archers, it should be only against melee units. Seems totally busted
@daishi711
@daishi711 Год назад
“dark blue” aka ROYAL blue 😉
@RudOnd
@RudOnd Год назад
3:25 Japanese mentioned in a positive way in a video about whole different civ ✔️
@nicolasdragas
@nicolasdragas Год назад
this technology should add the hero glow to the shotels
@devangnivatkar2649
@devangnivatkar2649 Год назад
Finally! The 'Mangudais have no counter' meme is dead! Some weird interactions I found: 1 - Royal Heirs blocks armour piercing attacks. Elite Leitis without Relics do 15 damage to Shotels, instead of the expected 18 2 - Royal Heirs does not block Cataphract trample damage. The Shotel attacking from behind takes 5 damage irrespective of the tech 3 - Royal Heirs does block Elephant type trample damage which accounts for armour. The reduction is factored into the base attack of the Elephant before the trample damage is calculated. A Shotel consistently takes -1 trample damage compared to an Ethiopian Halb for example
@RiskyDramaUploads
@RiskyDramaUploads Год назад
Well, #2 is consistent with Elite Teutonic Knights taking 5 splash damage from Slav spearmen with Druzhina and no blacksmith upgrades (so two ETKs next to each other probably perform worse than one)
@hiphop2u
@hiphop2u Год назад
Thank you
@raizan5946
@raizan5946 Год назад
It isn't blocking armor piercing effects since it isn't armor, not the displayed armor at least, since it adds +3 to the special hidden anti-cavalry armor.
@ArawnOfAnnwn
@ArawnOfAnnwn Год назад
That first one should really be fixed. It definitely doesn't sound like it should work like that.
@raizan5946
@raizan5946 Год назад
@@ArawnOfAnnwn 😅
@grammaton3773
@grammaton3773 Год назад
Cav and archers dominate the game now but devs are trying to get infantry up there. I am still waiting for SotLs 6 hours long video about how last patch changes the meta. Realy looking forward to it.
@thepersonwhocomentz
@thepersonwhocomentz Год назад
Important to note that this is coming in the context of swordsmen being made into a more meta-friendly option for army composition in general. So while Shotels are getting one hell of a buff, their most obvious counter is also going to come more into relevance right alongside them. Not to say that anything the swordsmen line is getting is going to make them better against Shotels, but rather that you're going to be more likely to be making swordsmen *anyway* for a variety of contexts, so having Shotels become stronger isn't one of those things where your hand is going to be forced into pumping out a counter unit that's not useful for anything else other than *just* countering Shotels.
@markusdegenhardt8678
@markusdegenhardt8678 Год назад
I doubt that anybody will Like to Produce the Milita line against ethiopians.
@lenovowhite5601
@lenovowhite5601 Год назад
I don't play AoE2 but dude the way you present the game and it's changes make me get a dopamine hit everytime I see you uploaded something new !
@llSuperSnivyll
@llSuperSnivyll Год назад
It would have been interesting, just for curiosity's sake, to see how this tech makes the Konnik matchup change, whether it's Mounted or Dismounted the one that is easier to deal with.
@astrid2432
@astrid2432 Год назад
It would be interesting how the chariot would work out too sure it's always mounted, but idk, seeing how they match up with a mixed melee/ranged unit would be interesting
@Dorfjunge
@Dorfjunge Год назад
Konnik remains one of the most interesting units in the game! ♥
@0super
@0super Год назад
“Over the hump” I see what you did there, sir
@garbagegarage4525
@garbagegarage4525 Год назад
What is also interesting to me is how they implemented it and if it is going to be available in the scenario editor
@ordinaryrat
@ordinaryrat Год назад
They could manually reduce the attack against shotel warriors to -3.
@harooooo1
@harooooo1 Год назад
every mounted unit gained a -3 bonus vs shotels/ethiopian camels, while the royal heirs tech itself just modifies the Shotel armor of shotels from -3 to 0 and the new armor of ethiopian camels from -3 to 0
@RiskyDramaUploads
@RiskyDramaUploads Год назад
​@@harooooo1 Weird because normally damage contribution from an armor class can't go below 0. I wonder if they had to change the engine, or if it has always worked this way for negative damage (but too lazy to test using Advanced Genie Editor)
@da_BemBem
@da_BemBem Год назад
Thanks for going over the Cataphract! That's what I was most curious about.
@vaxfantomen
@vaxfantomen Год назад
Watched your videos for years and for some reason that "like a good infintary civ, like japaneese" sounded so personal. 3:22 Old Sotl bias! Love your videos as always man : ]
@Krecikdwamiljony
@Krecikdwamiljony Год назад
Hera is going to be pretty upset once he notices this Edit: although, to be fair, at least this comes in pretty late in the game but also, on the other hand, Ethiopians already have good archers so idk
@williampounds5191
@williampounds5191 Год назад
This is a castle age tech. This isn't late game. They have good archers and siege too. They should not have this technology.
@Tpoleful
@Tpoleful Год назад
Hera's complain was regarding only two camel civs (Hindustanis and Gurjaras) whose bonuses are quite oppressive even in early castle. This bonus comes late in castle age and only affects two units Ethiopians don't even use. I doubt the camels will see any play still since they already have free pikes. I would keep my eyes on the Shotels though, they're looking kinda scary.
@Krecikdwamiljony
@Krecikdwamiljony Год назад
@@Tpoleful Yep, that's exactly what I meant
@martytu20
@martytu20 Год назад
If nothing else, Mongols/Huns/Magyars are going to face problems against Ethiopians. Tatars should be able to use hand cannoneers and Cumans have FU champs.
@Nazuiko
@Nazuiko Год назад
@@martytu20 I know that probably means "Fully upgraded" but I like the idea that Cuman infantry are just so frustratingly good as to be called "F'ed up champs".
@mr_ekshun
@mr_ekshun Год назад
With techs like this, do you think maybe it'd be important for the game to display an icon on the unit's card somewhere (for when you select it as an enemy) that'll show they're being affected by a specific tech? I feel like this might be an important thing to have shown for certain techs that buff a unit but aren't visible in any other way (like the unit's stats). An argument against this would be that you can just learn the matchup, but I think that's an unreasonable expectation for most players given the sheer volume of civs and different techs in this game, made even more complex by updates changing things over time.
@UnfamiliarPlace
@UnfamiliarPlace Год назад
Yes, I think that would be very good. Somewhere under the stats so that you still have to click on them (like watching for blacksmith upgrades), requiring some skill/expertise, but not invisible until you've lost a fight. Meanwhile ballistics is right on the edge of "at least it can be detected through masterful observation"...
@da_BemBem
@da_BemBem Год назад
"Learn the match up" has been the answer since the Byzentines got Logistica.
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Logistica, Druzhina, and Royal Heirs would be the techs I can think of that this would apply to.
@devangnivatkar2649
@devangnivatkar2649 Год назад
I'd like a silver crown next to the unit icon to denote Royal Heirs being active
@llSuperSnivyll
@llSuperSnivyll Год назад
The unit info section in the UI is very big with today's resolutions. I think they can comfortably add three new columns, "Unit Type", "Bonus Damage", "Resistances", on the right of the existing HP/Attack/Armor/Range indicators.
@CptManboobs
@CptManboobs Год назад
The most shocking thing is that nothing special happens when fighting with Cataphracts
@Stelphy876
@Stelphy876 Год назад
cataphracts have their own armor type and probably also their own attack type, they are a very 'special' unit in the game
@Erik_Dz
@Erik_Dz Год назад
@@Stelphy876 cataphracts do not have their own armor type nor do they have their own attack type. They just do bonus damage to infantry and take reduced anti-cavalry damage.
@kylew1950
@kylew1950 Год назад
​@@Erik_Dz consider cats as infantry, they're weak to archers
@Krecikdwamiljony
@Krecikdwamiljony Год назад
​As far as armor types (and bonus damage) go, they are cavalry, except they actually have significant non-zero cavalry armour.
@myolgiden
@myolgiden Год назад
@@kylew1950 Yeah, an infantry with a huuge 150 hp and they are not weak to archers because most of archers are not hitting hard.
@Hestorios
@Hestorios Год назад
Great video as always! Didn't think the impact would be this huge. Does anyone know when the new patch will be released?
@Dorfjunge
@Dorfjunge Год назад
I still think Ethiopians should have a unique tech that makes them not needing any food for any unit.
@kremepye3613
@kremepye3613 Год назад
Spicy
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Lmao 🤣
@mikelivingood7797
@mikelivingood7797 Год назад
I know you go into great detail, but is it possible to see how they match up against the top tier civs. For example, shotels vs Frank knights or Bulgarian knights with stirrups. You did this for camels and it was greatly appreciated. Ethiopians certainly seem to be a much stronger civ than before with archers to counter strong camel civs and shotels/camels for strong cavalry civs.
@CallofDutyBlackOps28
@CallofDutyBlackOps28 Год назад
It feels nice that; as much as you'd think trying to protect your archers with a squishy melee unit is bad, i find Shotel wars are really fun to use, being that they run the gap to situations that a slower unit might not save a straggling archer, or maybe avenge it.
@ScatterShock360
@ScatterShock360 Год назад
I feel like they are going in a direction to have a lot more infantry battles, which is awesome because cab and archers have been DOMINANT for so long now
@ScatterShock360
@ScatterShock360 Год назад
Cav*
@alor700
@alor700 Год назад
What about the droid attack on the Wookie?
@kR-qj7rw
@kR-qj7rw Год назад
Faster more hp and ranged units will always dominate
@lightworker2956
@lightworker2956 Год назад
I agree. It's nice if three instead of two categories of units are viable. Plus historically most armies were infantry-centric, which makes it a bit weird that infantry is so rare / bad in AoE2. k R: historically you could probably train 20-100 guys with spears for every 1 knight or like 5 competent archers you could field. So at some point the balance is going to flip towards infantry.
@Valchrist1313
@Valchrist1313 Год назад
Looking forward to seeing the shotel vs conq matchup.
@dustyacer
@dustyacer Год назад
results are kinda what i expected. it fits in with them in that its a strong castle age tech but does fall off a bit in imperial/lategame. The weird thing is now that ethipians has 3 good counters vs calvary. They get the pike upgrade for free, along with the new camels and shotels. Ofc each have a bit of pros and cons with that.
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
This does seem to make them almost invincible against knight civs in mid castle age onwards. On top of already being able to fire faster than other archer civs all game plus flatten archer civs in late game with torsion engines.
@paulpritchard1541
@paulpritchard1541 Год назад
One unit I'm curious about is how/if it will also affect the Khmer Ballista Elephant
@vesejir
@vesejir Год назад
5:37 -38%
@paulpritchard1541
@paulpritchard1541 Год назад
@@vesejir ahh I'm totally blind I thought that was an elephant archer.
@mubashirulmoula1798
@mubashirulmoula1798 Год назад
Seems like Shotel can single handedly counter anything Bengalis throws in.
@Fenet2000
@Fenet2000 Год назад
And also Magyars, Mongols, Tatars, Gurjaras, Huns, Berbers, maybe even Turks, Burgundians, Hindustanis and Persians
@mubashirulmoula1798
@mubashirulmoula1798 Год назад
@@Fenet2000 Tatars, Berbers, Burgundians, Hindustanis, Persians have HC. Turks have HC and Janissary. Gurjaras have HC and Chakram. Magyars, Mongols and Huns CA can at least hit and run.
@Fenet2000
@Fenet2000 Год назад
@@mubashirulmoula1798HC against such a quick unit? They already perform poorly aginst regular infantry if they have no meat shield. Without a meat shield the HC get shredded before even attacking twice Same thought process for janissaries and chakrams. Janissaries are even straight up worse than HC vs infantry Check this SOTL video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NxHPksqFrYQ.html
@mubashirulmoula1798
@mubashirulmoula1798 Год назад
@@Fenet2000 They are not as bad as Bengalis units.
@pbsoccer2
@pbsoccer2 Год назад
Crossbow/arbs and shotels will be a really strong composition in late castle and early imperial. High DPS combo and can't be countered with mass cav like before.
@StephenParlow
@StephenParlow Год назад
Interesting that the castle age camels get a buff when Ethiopians already get free pikeman upgrade
@gregor9921
@gregor9921 Год назад
Hey there :) What I'm often missing in your comparisons is equal resources factoring in the upgrade cost, basically analysing the break even point of "how many units do I have to create on top of the upgrade so it is worth it" instead of only taking equal res for the troops without considering the res you need for the upgrade
@sirsecular1277
@sirsecular1277 Год назад
I wish Ethiopians still got free Halberdier:(
@spinyslasher6586
@spinyslasher6586 Год назад
Don't forget that this is in addition to Ethiopians already having some of the best archer and siege in the game. So in imp, these shotels are gonna be backed by minigun arbs and ICBM BBCs.
@kinglyknight
@kinglyknight Год назад
If shotels were meant to ge a head to head unit then this doesn't seem to bad, but the fact that they were already a really good raiding unit with their better speed now makes these guys seem really overtuned. I also don't like how visually it doesn't follow that àrmorless guys dual weilding swords are super resistant to mounted horse archers and elphants
@RiskyDramaUploads
@RiskyDramaUploads Год назад
Incan eagle warriors taking a ballista to the face and shrugging it off because they have some feathers
@kinglyknight
@kinglyknight Год назад
@@RiskyDramaUploads to be fair everyone takes ballistas to the face pretty well in AoE2
@RiskyDramaUploads
@RiskyDramaUploads Год назад
@@kinglyknight I thought Shotels (as well as Gbetos) seemed too strong when they were introduced in HD; I wasn't actually able to play them due not having the right expansion, but with buffs to other non-elite unique infantry and Supplies I'm fine with how they are, even with this new tech. Remember, they still die to crossbowmen with equal resources. And I checked, Mayan eagles also beat them. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dXKaOQtmbVk.html
@danielslattery3090
@danielslattery3090 Год назад
I wish the devs would add some optic when you click on an enemy unit that shows if they have researched these “invisible” techs. I can see whether they have got fletching etc so why not something that shows the damage reduction or in the case of Vikings the chieftains tech?
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Yeah, Royal Heirs, Chieftains, Druzhina, and Logistica are all the invisible techs I can think of.
@FuelDropforthewin
@FuelDropforthewin Год назад
Spirit, how does it interact with units that ignore armour such as the Leitis?
@franzluggin398
@franzluggin398 Год назад
I read that this effect is actually implemented as giving every mounted unit -3 bonus damage against them, while giving the Shotel Warrior -3 armor against that bonus damage until Royal Heirs bumps that up from -3 to 0, giving the net effect of 3 less damage taken. If that is the case, I would expect ignore armor to do nothing more than neuter blacksmith upgrades just as with every other unit, since treating the Shotel Warrior's -3/0 "Shotel armor" as 0 doesn't make the calculation better.
@devangnivatkar2649
@devangnivatkar2649 Год назад
It blocks exactly 3 damage from cavalry AP attacks. Eg. No Relic Leitis does 15 damage to Royal Shotels instead of the expected 18
@Blockiess
@Blockiess Год назад
Imagine the videos when ROR comes in may
@Kawabongahlive
@Kawabongahlive Год назад
I can't wait... I'm telling you, I just can't wait. Civ overviews, matchups, strategies...
@a.nick20
@a.nick20 Год назад
Snack time and AoE 2 video, perfect! Thanks SotL 👏👍✌️
@breg5993
@breg5993 Год назад
Hey Spirit, I know you're probably busy with the new patch stuff, but I have a weird specific question: what's the villager ratio you need on wood to support x number of farms?
@NPChuman
@NPChuman Год назад
They will start to suspect something when their cavalry get stomped. Lol that was a good one.
@edmis90
@edmis90 Год назад
Yesterday was Hera video about how Camel civs break the game balance for Knight civs. Today is a SotL video about how an upcoming patch has a major buff to a camel civ vs cavalry. Is this conspiracy or coincidence or just the nature of things?
@riccardocorradini6713
@riccardocorradini6713 Год назад
seriously OP tech imho especially for a civ that does not need this kind of buff either. meanwhile you see a lot of archer civs with no love at all in the PUP
@JAKEATO
@JAKEATO Год назад
The Scary part of Shotel is how the civ have the Economy for do the unit, still players gonna mix with pikes against mounted units for maximum damage and archer/siege support for possible counters.
@hawkticus_history_corner
@hawkticus_history_corner Год назад
Oh. Oh my. I love Shotels so this is nutty. This is gonna be great
@RolfReibach
@RolfReibach Год назад
It's a cool new tech that has a great unique effect
@tag180rotax
@tag180rotax Год назад
Billy Mays up in heaven partying like it's $19.99
@annaairahala9462
@annaairahala9462 Год назад
Enjoy it while it lasts, no way this won't get nerfed by either making it more expensive or decreasing it to 2 instead of 3
@ArunKumar-zk9ot
@ArunKumar-zk9ot Год назад
Thanks! Nice show and tell!
@ambrascetnarwhal2695
@ambrascetnarwhal2695 Год назад
2:41 I guess they will add a sound effect displayed for their enemies to make them be aware like they did with some other unique techs.
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Probably not. While there’s a public notification for Flemish Revolution and First Crusade, there’s no notification for otherwise invisible stat boost techs like Logistica and Druzhina.
@ethribin4188
@ethribin4188 Год назад
Not sure if this buff is nessecary. But it is a very heavy buff
@RMOB
@RMOB Год назад
"Have you heard about that shotel warriors?" "They have curved swords. Curved swords."
@HiyokoSupiritto
@HiyokoSupiritto Год назад
I really like this new effect to be honest for an old unique tech, I hope other techs can have a similar treatment
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Yeah, the move away from unique techs that merely enhance an already inherent feature in a unit is a welcome change. Shotels already train quickly, so researching a tech that makes them deploy even faster is kinda dumb. Same with Viking Berserkergang which made them regenerate faster; it’s now just inherent in the elite version of Shotels and is at least inherent in elite berserks and maybe also in regular berserks. Now to just give Persians something better than merely Mahouts making elephants 30% faster… That should be automatic for elite war elephants.
@stuartmacaulay5761
@stuartmacaulay5761 Год назад
@@jefffinkbonner9551 Persian trash bow is borderline overpowered though in some matchups though (mega random with nearly no gold for example). Imagine how OP Persians become when they have that epic eco bonuses + 2 powerhouse unique techs lol
@NewandForgiven
@NewandForgiven Год назад
@@stuartmacaulay5761 Persian trash-monks, maybe?
@HiyokoSupiritto
@HiyokoSupiritto Год назад
@@NewandForgiven Why not Boiling Oil, but better?
@NewandForgiven
@NewandForgiven Год назад
@user-ck7gy4lw1q It would be cool to see a version of that be useful, for sure
@Terry_T_ODST
@Terry_T_ODST Год назад
I love this tech from a flavor sense. Before, having faster creation didn't really make sense considering they were, well, royalty. Now, their better training and resources makes them take less damage. It's perfect (although a bit underpriced XD)
@ggg21201
@ggg21201 Год назад
Well, the faster creation thing is still there though. They just get it inherently.
@Terry_T_ODST
@Terry_T_ODST Год назад
@@ggg21201 the creation time is nice, it just didn't fit the name of the tech (also it was a bit cheesy in castle age XS)
@SIGNOR-G
@SIGNOR-G Год назад
Would be cool if it was historically flavoured but i guess they didnt have anything worthy...
@Terry_T_ODST
@Terry_T_ODST Год назад
@@SIGNOR-G oh for sure, and my logic wasn't probably what they were going for. This has been a (mostly) balancing patch, with historical relevancy applied later. I'll wait for the next expansion for more historically interesting bits 👀
@SIGNOR-G
@SIGNOR-G Год назад
@@Terry_T_ODST yes. Lets see how it goes.
@TheCoincidence
@TheCoincidence Год назад
The civ already got Pikemen for free (and formerly Halbs as well) while also fielding incredibly strong archers, it's good to see the Shotels get some appreciation but this might potentially be a bit overkill. At least the unique tech is made a bit more useful.
@SerenissimaRepublica
@SerenissimaRepublica Год назад
I guess the plan to encourage more infantry play is just to make cavalry civs unplayable these days! Not a fan of this change. I don't see how a cavalry civ is supposed to counter this when the Ethiopians will have much better archers too, and already had free pike.
@MasterSonicKnight
@MasterSonicKnight Год назад
let's take one of the most fragile units in the game and make it counter all meta units! ...except crossbow and onagers jokes aside, i think this is too much damage reduction against ranged units, i'd personally make it -3 for melee mounted and -1 or -2 for ranged mounted, but well time will tell how good it is
@cjc2010
@cjc2010 Год назад
The king must be really busy making that army.
@olefredrikskjegstad5972
@olefredrikskjegstad5972 7 месяцев назад
The Ethiopians really benefit particularly from the fact that the improvement is being given to some of their faster units. The real power-units for the Ethiopians are their archers and siege, and cavalry is an obvious counter to both. Improving your ability to intercept Cavalry and take fights helps protect those units
@bartoszmichaek8497
@bartoszmichaek8497 Год назад
How does it interact with Wootz Steel?
@TheGore1021
@TheGore1021 Год назад
Pretty nice buff to the unique unit. This means I can consider that Shotel warriors will be useful in more battle situations.
@indnwkybrd
@indnwkybrd Год назад
Idk... honestly, I'm pretty excited for most of the April patch changes & the buffs that the Militia line are getting, but I _really_ am not into this one. (1) It doesn't seem fun or fair at all that the opponent has _no_ ability to know whether he's fighting Ethiopian units with Royal Heirs, short of flat out losing an army to it first. I mean... if there's an interface which purports to tell the player "this is how much damage this unit does; this is how much damage that unit resists", then it should just do that straightforwardly... not hide things! Bonus damage is understandable, because that's at least _consistent_ which makes it predictable and fair. Imagine if you saw your opponent with a bunch of halbs, but you couldn't actually know whether they dealt bonus damage to cavalry or not, until you actually fought them! Fun? Fair? I don't think so. (2) It doesn't really make a ton of sense to me that it applies to _all_ mounted units, whether mêlée or ranged. It's a little disappointing to me to see AoE2 increasingly just making techs with random names that do random things, instead of stuff that actually has at least _some_ immersive basis in reality. Is their awesommmmme aristocratic blood just somehow deflecting both swords _and_ arrows, or something? (3) Last but not least, the tech just seems kinda OP. You're basically getting +3/+3 for _two_ different units, against a _huge_ array of opposing units of different damage types, and for only 300F 300G?? And moreover, _neither_ of those units is even the archer line, or even an archer at all, despite Ethiopians being an archer & siege civ? Tbh, I'm betting/hoping that this is gonna get dialed back pretty quickly, and/or increased in cost at the very least.
@richardsorgo8600
@richardsorgo8600 Год назад
Goths with Perfusion: Finally a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!
@goncal7099
@goncal7099 Год назад
This seems too strong to me, specially since it affects both camels and shotels. I am not sure what Magyars or Tatars would do against ethiopians, or even some camel civs (considering ethiopians already have very strong archers)
@rp18125
@rp18125 Год назад
ethiopian pocket shotel spam might become pretty good in teamgames
@LightKnight_Age_Of
@LightKnight_Age_Of Год назад
I wish Genoese Crossbowmen had a resistance against cavalry as well. An attack bonus is nice, but their shield should really mean sth, and I guess they're supposed to be first good against cavalry because of that shield: it would make a lot of sense if a bit of their attack bonus was replaced by a mounted units attack reduction.
@orirune3079
@orirune3079 Год назад
True, but GCs are already pretty strong, I don't think they need a buff.
@MrTerapak
@MrTerapak Год назад
actually the shield had more a function against other archers/crossbows, which is presented in the game by the tech pavese
@LightKnight_Age_Of
@LightKnight_Age_Of Год назад
@@orirune3079 I would have their bonus attack be reduced in exchange.
@rahzoriel2103
@rahzoriel2103 Год назад
@@MrTerapak I'd rather have the tech halved in cost, give +0/+1 armor, while GC/EGC gets 0-1/1-2 armor.
@orirune3079
@orirune3079 Год назад
@@LightKnight_Age_Of NOOOOO absolutely not, when you're the Italian player there's nothing more satisfying than mowing through endless hussars in a late-game imperial age war
@lumptydumpty6992
@lumptydumpty6992 Год назад
This tech affecting camels is what makes it broken. I’m fine with the shottels, but Ethiopians generally had a good matchup vs CA/Cav civs like huns and Tatars. They have one of the best halb-siege combos, have BBC w/ Tortion, fully upgraded skirm, and now top tier camels. That’s just silly.
@yamcha111
@yamcha111 Год назад
Not top tier camel
@chrisdaley2852
@chrisdaley2852 Год назад
Some other points: - Yes you should consider the unit to unit matchup for a lot of cheap units but it matters least for units like the Shotel that train insanely fast. 2 Castles is easily enough to produces a corresponding force of Shotels to a more expensive unique unit since you can train about 3 or more(Or twice as much for Elite Shotels) in the time most unique units take to train 1. - Ethiopian camels will now probably struggle to make an impact as a fast cavalry counter since Shotels are acting in the same role now. They have some marginal advantages but it gets grossly overshadowed by the advantages of Shotels. Notably, Shotels were already disgusting raiding units(Being fast and eating TCs for breakfast). This is particularly bad since camels are typically used to counter the units that Shotels performed really well against in these tests like cav archers. As crazy as it might seem, to me this tech feels like a significant nerf to camels.
@nheimi99
@nheimi99 Год назад
Shotels desperately needed this buff, well done AOE2 devs!
@youcanthandlethetruth5433
@youcanthandlethetruth5433 Год назад
No they didn't. What do civs like berbers do vs them now? Archers and shotels shred anything they can do
@TheKobasen
@TheKobasen Год назад
Shotel get instantly 4 sec creation time when researching elite upgrade is a massive boost for Ethiopian. Maybe a surprise fast imp castle drop.
@marcuspontius3967
@marcuspontius3967 Год назад
On a maybe side note, I find this tech interesting, but not so much intuitiv. How do you imagine a unit getting less damage due to the other unit on a horse/camel/elephant? I can imagine a unit dealing more damage to a horse/camel/elephant and in fact, thats how I viewed the spearmenline bonusdamage, but I find it odd the other way around. Take the archer vs cavalry archer, how would one arrow hit more, but the other arrow hit less? Ofc its not all about realism, but I prefer the more intuitive behavior.
@The_Foxymew
@The_Foxymew Год назад
Because they use different techniques and weapons, obviously. A foot archer and a cavalry archer may not use the same type of bow, nor arrow, and don't fire them in the same way. Same goes for melee. Different techniques and tools. Only one I could truly argue it wouldn't make sense is maybe the elephant archer, since they're on a platform, and thus could totally use any type of bow. It doesn't make 100% sense, of course, but there's a throughline here that's close enough for video game logic, if you ask me.
@nostalji75
@nostalji75 Год назад
" how would one arrow hit more, but the other arrow hit less?" Logically there are many realistic reasons why the damage of one arrow hit would inflict more or less damage than another. Different bow, and arrows/arrowheads are just the most obvious ones. Training, positioning, momentum etc are more suttle options to make solid arguements for one kind of archer to inflict more damage than another type. "How do you imagine a unit getting less damage due to the other unit on a horse/camel/elephant?" Welp also several ways. If you have weapons or defenses effective against these animals you should recieve less damage. One more realistic way to show the effects of a knight on horseback vs one on camel, would be to give the camel unit a fear mechanic against cav.
@GameFuMaster
@GameFuMaster Год назад
well then why do spearmen do so little damage to almost naked villagers?
@The_Foxymew
@The_Foxymew Год назад
@@GameFuMaster Villagers got them schmooves, and dance out of the way of the attempted stabs. Slashes are harder to dodge, however. I'm being facetious, of course.
@GameFuMaster
@GameFuMaster Год назад
@@The_Foxymew you're right, I mean, just look at the female villager in SoTL's intro, who's twisting madly while dodging all of those javelins!
@Weldedhodag
@Weldedhodag Год назад
how do Teutonic Paladins do? Their armor bonus in this interaction isn't as big as the Shotel or Camel, but I'd imagine it'd skew the results a bit since they're taking 2 less damage either way.
@rickardberglund1564
@rickardberglund1564 Год назад
yes makes the Shotel Warrior even stronger. Because it wasn't the before
@Burgher1605
@Burgher1605 Год назад
Thanks for some more great content.
@couchpotatoe91
@couchpotatoe91 Год назад
So, what are the best unique castle techs? Yeomen? Polishzic privileges?
@Darkstriker133713
@Darkstriker133713 Год назад
I'd love to see this mounted armor bonus be applied to all infantry for other civs. A +1 or 2 would aid against knight rushes in castle age and make man at arms more viable.
@lelouch3
@lelouch3 Год назад
Why ?
@13g0man
@13g0man Год назад
It sounds like against Ethiopians you can't rely on pure cav to counter their archers, you need to use a mixed force of anti-archer cav and a steady archer/melee line to retreat behind.
@jm2270
@jm2270 Год назад
Feels like a hard counter to CA and Light Cav Civs.
@finneich5105
@finneich5105 Год назад
Yeah I like the change in general but I think Magyar or hunns are done In this matchup, it should be more like -3 vs Cavs and -1/2 vs ca
@BeyondYore
@BeyondYore Год назад
I think the devs are trying to push for more diverse and somewhat more realistic army compositions and especially highlighting some of the features that make the civs stand out uniquely against each other. I think it's cool to make some civs really shine in certain niches to maintain a sense of uniqueness and also should lead to way more strategic and thought out match ups, since it's now much more risky to send in some knights to deal with Ethiopian crossbows, when they are guarded by Shotels or Camels. That forces players to think more about the civs in general and utilize bonuses stronger.
@ursleiter5611
@ursleiter5611 Год назад
HOW are they doing this? That really interests me. Some hidden armour that only cavalry units check? Damage packets including unit type now? How would this interact with Leitis? It might open many possibilities for the future. But then, they seem to be doing this a lot recently.
@bionetik
@bionetik Год назад
They probably just get more anti-cavalry and anti-cavalry-archer armor, similar to the cataphract which has anti-infantry armor and has been in the game for a long time now Leitis also ignore only melee armor, not these unit/unit-class specific types of armor Obviously it's just a guess, but it feels like the easiest way to implement such a change
@ursleiter5611
@ursleiter5611 Год назад
​@@bionetik The Cataphract has bonus armour against Anti-Cavalry attacks, no matter where they come from, as well as dealing bonus damage to infantry specifically. The armour does not need to know the source - it works against attacks from ANY source, like Camel riders and Genoese Crossbowmen. And the way they implemented the Condottiero resistance against Hand canoneers was to create a special armour class that only this unit has, and gave all units the same attack bonuses against it as they do against regular Infantry, except for hand canoneers. So either they now changed the engine to allow attacks to confer information of its source to the target entity, or they changed the attack of all mounted units to be 3 less, with 3 bonus damage applying to everything that does not have this bonus resistance. I'm personally hoping for the former.
@BigAmp2012
@BigAmp2012 Год назад
This is a balanced update for the Shotel Warrior, well deserved for a Unique Unit. Their camels dont have bloodlines or final cav armor so no big deal.
@troydowns7748
@troydowns7748 Год назад
I'll be honest, I'll miss watching the flood coming from a single castle push.
@WackyConundrum
@WackyConundrum Год назад
Over the hump! 🐪
@PeterFendrich
@PeterFendrich Год назад
So what you're saying is, ironically, this will probably do as much to help push players into using the swordsman line (What you going to be a better counter to this unit than mounted troops)... Which seems to be a desire from the devs anyway.
@Fenet2000
@Fenet2000 Год назад
Yeah... Sounds like a great idea against the civ with the highest damage output archers
@LonesomeDevil
@LonesomeDevil Год назад
Not necessarily. Don't forget Ethiopians specialize in both Archers and Siege. I'm guessing they gave that buff because fast cavalry units tend to trample both of them.
@Fenet2000
@Fenet2000 Год назад
@@LonesomeDevil but Ethiopians already had free pikemen, so why make shotels so ridiculously strong?
@LonesomeDevil
@LonesomeDevil Год назад
​@@Fenet2000 Most likely because Shotels were considered one of the worst unique units in the meta and nobody ever used Ethiopian Camels. I don't think it'll change how the civ is played that much, to be honest. Like you said, Pikemen and Halbs also have a tiny boost and are much easier to train as a cavalry counter. It's a very strong tech for sure, but I do think it'll still be a niche one to use. You're still not gonna see it researched every single game.
@Fenet2000
@Fenet2000 Год назад
@@LonesomeDevil I hope you are right, but I am afraid we might get another civ that becomes almost impossible to counter Hera dropped a video yesterday that addresses that exact problem with Hindustanis and gurjaras. And now we are giving also Ethiopians a bonus on top of their camels which I think is just not necessary. It means that it will be a lot more difficult to balance that in the future when people have figured out how ridiculous that tech is
@Tobbzn
@Tobbzn Год назад
No info on whether this wording means that Genitours are just straight up not able to deal damage with imbalanced upgrades?
@jeanrenecarvalhocourcy1340
@jeanrenecarvalhocourcy1340 Год назад
Ehat about the Byzantine unique unit (can't type in english)? Is it cost efficient? Does it change drammaticaly the results)?
@Robert-sq7bp
@Robert-sq7bp Год назад
But how did they do it in engine? This should have required a big change to the way damage is done right, with attacks taking into account the armour types/properties of the unit the attack came from which wasn't a thing before right?
@The-jy3yq
@The-jy3yq Год назад
So what about the Coustillier? How many charge attacks does it take to kill a Shotel now?
@Davtwan
@Davtwan Год назад
Do you think they’re doing too much to knock down Calvary Civs or not enough? Or even just right?
@melonetankberry5211
@melonetankberry5211 Год назад
so to counter shotels you go either infantry (who get outrun so no counter for raiding) or archers against the 2nd best archer civ? seems off.
@Binarokaro
@Binarokaro Год назад
For all the efforts they've made to make infantry better in a meta dominated by cavalry and archers, I honestly feel like this is one of the more interesting ways to do it
@tkzsfen
@tkzsfen Год назад
Spirit, can you guess from which side of a building the unit will come out, when it is trained?
@chronographer
@chronographer Год назад
How does this work mechanically? Do units gain a 'shotel' attack/armor type? What about for camels?
@Vaknuva
@Vaknuva Год назад
But does it have an affect on trample damage from mounted units?
@AutumnReel4444
@AutumnReel4444 Год назад
Wild tech
@humanhaggis
@humanhaggis Год назад
Very cool upgrade for the camels, but a little worried about shotel warriors. A lot of cavalry civs feel like they just don't have a good option against Ethiopians in castle age now, even things like axemen play into the typical archer strategy. With imperial age, the elite upgrade has them producing at almost 10x the speed of the knight line, avoiding any problems with massing or transitioning, plus the saved gold, high speed, and high base attack make them excellent at filling the roles the civilization needed. Outside of the archer line, there doesn't seem to be any way to cost-effectively counter shotel raids, and this is against what is broadly considered one of the best archer civs in the game.
@cuccooverlord9812
@cuccooverlord9812 Год назад
Amazing tech
@da_ghoul9432
@da_ghoul9432 Год назад
So Shotel, Elite Skirm, and Torsion Engine Onagers is now unstoppable.
@Jukettaja
@Jukettaja Год назад
9:44 I see what you did there
@jefffinkbonner9551
@jefffinkbonner9551 Год назад
Surprised no one else has commented about this 😂
@deepasadish
@deepasadish Год назад
infantry should never lose to cavalry cost effectively! it should be classical rock/paper/scissors between infantry/archers/cavalry. while the spear line can be a hard counter, the regular infantry should at least be a weak counter. i fully understand this is "specialized" infantry, they should at least break even with cavalry.
@matercheff
@matercheff Год назад
I’m wondering when does this patch come I can’t wait to try it
@valger3652
@valger3652 Год назад
Btw someone know, why gurjaras mounted unit deal not correct damage to shotels (with UT) ?
@MoRDekai1364
@MoRDekai1364 Год назад
it would be super cool if they add mounted shotel warrior
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