The New Mormon Offshoot in Town, "The Remnant" (feat. J. Griffin, Director, Who Killed Joseph Smith) 

Other people helped me the same way. I couldn't be more happy to meet you and hear a little bit about your journey.

Good to see you, always love your comments. Just want to add, their stand against polygamy is what led to their deaths.

@@freethinker1026 seems like a very plausible position. It’s also my current operating hypothesis.

In some of the documents it Joseph Smith says he is against the "Teaching and Preaching" of polygamy. There is one document in the Joseph Smith Papers Project where it looks like also the word "Practice" is written but then scratched out. Having said that I think Joseph saw the writing on the wall and that polygamy was in the long run going to be bad for the Church in Nauvoo and needed to step away from it. Also I bet Emma was a big influencer in getting rid of it.

@@celicalostandfound or he never was in favor of it, as he constantly preached. The fact is, the only reason we are told that polygamy came from Joseph is because other people said it did… I no longer believe this. I believe Joseph and Hyrum meant what they preached and that Emma was honest. I believe polygamy came from the Twelve. And I believe the documents bear this out.

That Joseph Smith had 11 children with Emma and zero with the 40+ women he was allegedly married to for years changed my mind.

The head of the show is a pain in the ass. I hate his voice and immaturity!!

But was it an intentionally false narrative? I don't care as much if they got it wrong. I care if Taylor and Richards intentionally mislead people, and if they did, why? The entire story about the watch could just be a misunderstanding. Taylor could have believed he was telling the truth. When it comes down to it, they were being shot at. Taylor had been shot many times. Is it not possible that they could have misinterpreted events? Yeah, totally.

@@richardclark2495 I agree, he may have thought his watch was shot and they could have just got the events wrong. Either way it should be questioned and re-examined to determine what really happened.

It was John Taylor who took a bullet to his vest pocket watch, stopping the time at 5:16 & 26 seconds. This was from a book by Ted Gibbons..."I Witnessed the Carthage Massacre, the testimony of Willard Richards." chapter 8. It's a small paperback booklet published in 1988.

I’m currently reading the second. The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph, and Hyrum is another good one.

I will defend the honor of my Prophet Joseph Smith with my life. I can’t wait to meet him one day.

Yes. And it’s deception.

I'm an SDA convert. Not sure what you're claiming about SDA. Are you saying our good fruits are used by us as evidence for our church being true?

@@truthbebold4009 Yes. There are Seventh-day Adventists who appeal to Ellen White’s “good fruits” to proclaim her a true prophet.

@@examiningreligiousclaims9883 But they speak of her good fruits alone as sufficient evidence?

@@truthbebold4009 The SDA Church claims to be the Remnant Church because they keep the true commandments of God (which includes keeping the true Sabbath holy), as well as having “the Gift of Prophecy”, referring to Ellen White’s revelations. The LDS Church claims to be the one true church because Joseph Smith is the one prophet through whom Jesus Christ allegedly restored his one true priesthood. The JW’s claim to be God’s one true organization because Jehovah supposedly came down to Earth and selected them for these final days.

@@examiningreligiousclaims9883 The SDA church believes that God has true believers in all churches. God raised up the Protestant Reformers to restore the Bible truths which the papacy had changed. The Adventist pioneers were the final phase of the Protestant Reformation.

Could you give me an example of what you mean?

@@stevenpictures1 Moroni 6 verses 1-3 details what the requirements of baptism should be. Compare that to how the lds church currently practices it. Dunking random 8 year olds wasn't something that the Book of Mormon advocates. That's a pretty minor example, but I figured I would share it since those verses came up in the discussion meeting after Sacrament that I attended earlier today.

@@longclaw99 wow, I guess bible believers are not christians? (doesn't the bible say to keep women silent in the church)? On a serious note, the Book of Mormon is a abridgment and telling of a story, and tells of teachings for us and what happened then. With that in mind, we also believe in continuing revelation (articles of faith) and God reveals procedures and teachings for our day. Read the old testament and no one is a follower of the Lord if you use that yard stick. Get real, God leads his church today and gives us doctrines for us today. (remember, more than the tribe of Levi can hold the priesthood today, for example).

@@brianstutzman5037 I tried to parse what sort of point you were trying to make about somehow bible believers not being Christians (?) but I can't make any logical sense of it. Cognitive dissonance? As for your more serious note, sure why don't you go ahead and throw that Book of Mormon away as useless garbage then? Just as long as you obey the one True Commandment to Rule them All, which is: "Follow the Prophet!" Since God changes His mind a lot, because He's really wishy-washy, thank goodness we've got 'living profits' (bad pun intended) to tell us what God means from day to day, because we sure can't trust what He said in the Book of Mormon, sheesh how behind the times am I to still be putting any stock in that old useless book? /sarc Still, the FACT remains that the Book of Mormon teachings do NOT comport with what the current lds corp teaches.

Your last sentence brings out and important point “… verses what was taught in church” remember what is taught in church is taught by lay members, not professional scriptorians, maybe not even very spiritual or even knowledgeable members, it takes a lot of work to study and learn. It’s very possible teachers in the church have taught false or misleading/untrue doctrine. I personally have not agreed on every point I’ve heard throughout the years in Sunday school or Priesthood. I agree with you that the Book of Mormon is key and the foundation of the church, which you said in around about way. Honestly, my faith is not shaken because someone in the church either purposely or ignorantly was not right on point. I’ve never walked out and thought oh well the church must not be true, it’s more likely I’ve walked out thinking yeah that wasn’t really my understanding of the doctrine…

How late was that journal entry written? I would love to see it. From what I have seen is that most people who "testified" of this didn't actually mention it at the time it was purported to happen. All of the accounts came decades later as the idea developed over time. It would be great if the account didn't become adulterated such as the story of the angel threatening Joseph's life if he didn't take multiple wives...angels don't do that.

@@prophetcentral actually angels do threaten on the Lord's behalf. If you recall the story of Balaam and his donkey. When the Lord opened his eyes after the donkey had spoke to him the angel said if the donkey hadn't turned away he was going to kill Balaam. As the Lord had instructed him. He told him this with a sword drawn. Just as described with the angel in Joseph's encounture. There is also the angel that killed 185,000 Assyria in Isaiah 37:36.

@@keithlott1916 I didn't say angels don't threaten, I am saying they don't force people to obey commandments of men. Polygamy was never properly established as a commandment from God.

Just look at his eyes yo tells u all u need to know

@@prophetcentral Jacob 2:23-30 literally puts forward the parameters for when God might "command [His] people" to have more than one wife. Also, if polygamy is always a sin, why would Abraham and Jacob/Israel be given so many incredible blessings? When we are baptized we are adopted into the Abrahamic covenant through Israel. Joseph Smith taught that Abraham is already sitting on a throne of glory, despite being a polygamist. I'm glad I don't have more than one wife, I never want one. But your assertion is silly.

They censored v@ccin3 because it brings down the hammer of RU-vid.

The remnant comes from 3 Nephi 21. The remnant of Jacob are those in the last days who enter the gate and are baptised by water, fire, and the Holy Ghost.

Brigham Young believed and propagated a bunch of wacky and racist stuff. Basing one's walk on his teachings is insane.

I’ll get on that… been trying to use the video upload function on Spotify with limited results.

That's none of our business, tbh. Yes, he is active in the church, and it is not up to us to judge whether people wear garments or not. It's a very personal topic, so let's not worry about it.

💯% and that’s what they don’t get! “In God’s eternal plan, salvation is an individual matter; exaltation is a family matter.” -President Russell M Nelson

No, everyone will not have salvation. As 1 Corinthians 15 teaches, in the resurrection there is the glory of the sun, the glory of the moon, the glory of the stars, Celestial and Terrestrial Kingdom's of salvation are mentioned. The Telestial Kingdom of salvation is spoken only as the glory of the stars. So people are saved in one of three different kingdoms of salvation. And those who deny the Holy Ghost, or Revelation 21: 8 suffer the second death.

Isaiah 56 is amazing thanks for sharing that testimony.

@@six1nyne thank you. I actually have the whole story on my RU-vid channel

What an awesome story! Thank you for sharing it!

Dude......... when you said the time the clock said I was sold. I get "most" all my signs, visions, visits, teachings, all kinds of stuff around 4:30-5am........ like clock work. Give or take daylight savings time.

@@SHREKfiona1234 wow that is crazy. Would you like to share some of your experiences. I have zoom and a small RU-vid channel.

Yep. Then oaks said the church is still under that condemnation. But nothing to see here, right?

What was the name of that talk?

Sounds like you're leaning very heavily upon the 'arm of flesh' to weight your ability to discern, which I think is pretty dangerous.

Sounds like you leaning on your OWN arm of flesh as if its better than an others flesh

I think people that leave the church and sometimes seemingly attack the church are also doing what they think is right. Do you think they will be judged harshly?

@@123mneil I don't know. I guess we'll see.

@@123mneil It's in the hands of God. Only he knows the hearts of all. I can't imagine a loving God dealing harshly with anyone who is doing their best to do what they believe is right, whether or not their actions really are right or not. Saul of Tarsus is a good example. The Lord appeared to him and was able to bring him over to his side. But before that he did all in his power to persecute the church. What if the Lord didn't appear to Saul and Saul remained an antagonist. I still think the Lord cared about him the same and saw the good in him. We all can only do our best. Now, on the contrary, if someone knows truth and fights against it and purposely seeks the sorrow and pain of others then are they really doing good and do they deserve harsh judgement? Still, only God knows the answers to that ultimately and the thoughts and intents of the heart. So, good question.

@@anichols2760 Exactly.

Nobody is denied the celestial kingdom. Their own choices dictate that's not where they want to be.

I actually wrote that comment before Kwaku voiced it! lol

I can see that many things point to Christ in the Book of Mormon but where is the temple imagery that is similar to what happens in LDS temples? Nephi built a temple where they may have fulfilled the law of Moses and sacrificed animals. Otherwise, it seems to be a meeting place: King Benjamin has his people gather near the temple and Jacob speaks to the sinners about pride and polygamy in the temple. I also don't see a "covenant path" in the Book of Mormon. Justin gave the impression that a lot has been added to the current church and I suspect he's correct.

Who is more obsessed with BY? These off shoots who disavow his doctrine or the LDS who disavow his doctrine but can’t disavow him.

@@justin-griffin I don’t disavow him, he was a prophet who led the pioneers across the plains, something that Joseph smith wasn’t called to do. He wasn’t perfect but who is? Including Joseph smith, Young had a calling and he did it extremely well. Those are just the facts. Brigham Young was a prophet every bit as much as Smith and I support him till the end

@@Cws7187 did you know when Brigham Young died, the church discovered he had “borrowed” from the tithing fund the equivalent of over $20million in todays dollars for his own personal expenses? 50+ wives. Multiple mansions. Richest man west of the Mississippi. No job. No one ever thought to ask how a man with no job could afford such an extravagant lifestyle.

@@justin-griffin do you think Joseph smith was perfect with Money? See Kirkland safety society, I give Young as much grace as I do smith. Who was far far from perfect

@@Cws7187 perfect with money? If one of the 15 today stole $20mm in tithing funds you’d say, “oh well, no one is perfect?”

Great book.

I have an in-law that one of his ancestors was in the mob.

Who was the first polygamist? Joseph or BY?

The only thing in the Restored Gospel that was sloppy being laid out or introduced was polygamy? There are public accounts of Joseph Smith putting down polygamy but none promoting it? I believe Mr. Griffin is correct in his argument. If not Joseph Smith was a liar, and it brings into question the credibility of the Book of Mormon and everything else. The only thing inconsistent is the introduction of polygamy by those who took over for Jospeh Smith.

@@erikpeoples8041 One important thing to realize about the restored gospel is that the credibility of The Book of Mormon is not dependant on Joseph Smith. It's the other way around. That's why it's the keystone rather than the prophet. Joseph Smith is chastised for his mistakes in the D&C. He never claimed perfection. I do think he was a better man than most. And a prophet. But, by his own admission, not without blemish.

There are very specific fruits that come from following the correct doctrine of Christ. All of the gifts of the spirit. The baptism of fire and Holy Ghost. Receiving the promise of eternal life. All of these can happen in this life. This is how you know.

This is, indeed, circular reasoning: using a personal belief in the source as a proof of the source.

They were about to be outed for practicing plural marriage and like David of old were willing to do anything to hide their sin and maintain their power. In a letter to Orson Hyde Nov. 12, 1845 William Smith, Joseph's only surviving brother wrote,"...in the event of your departure to the wild and cheerless far-west. Your tyrant usurpers will there be shielded from civilized law, and ere long you will be made to feel the lash of their power. My life and exertions will be (in order to perpetrate the names of my father's family and with honor to the noble martyred brothers Joseph and Hiram wipe away the disgrace, the stain, the evils that, since their deaths, have crept into the church. And by too frequent use of their names, the twelve are carrying out the most wicked, base and unhallowed purposes that could be devised under the cloak of Joseph and Hiram's names. Brethren! be assured that Joseph or Hiram never would have sanctioned the present wicked plans of the twelve; their corruption, their sink of iniquity, their removal to the wilderness, their doctrine of polygamy, usurpation, etc.) exercise for the redemption of the church to its original purity, and the rights of my father's and brother's family." (Warsaw Signal Nov. 26, 1845 Vol II, No 36) Published by William Smith (brother to Joseph) in the New York Tribune, Thursday, May 28 1857 "I have good reason for believing that my brother Samuel H. Smith, died of poison at Nauvoo, administered by order of Brigham Young and Willard Richards, only a few weeks subsequent to the unlawful murder of my other brothers, Joseph and Hiram Smith, while incarcerated in Carthage jail. Several other persons who were presumed to stand between Brigham Young and the accomplishment of his ambitions and wicked designs mysteriously disappeared from Nauvoo about the same time, and have never since been heard from." Joseph was an honest man who loved his only wife Emma. He translated the BOM that not only condemned polygamy but also doing things in secret. He was tarred and feathered, mocked and beaten, jailed and killed for refusing to deny the truth. Yet, we are asked to believe Brigham's narrative that the man who had enough faith to see God the Father and his son Jesus Christ and refused to deny it would lie, sneak around, decieve his wife and deny living a commandment God had given him. Isn't it interesting that polygamy finally ended for good when Hyrum's son became president of the church. It's as though God righted the wrong and got the church back on track. Tender mercy if you ask me.

@@freethinker1026 Thank you for posting this...

@@freethinker1026 1. Hyrum’s son, Joseph F. Smith, was not the one to end polygamy. That honor belongs instead to Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the church on October of 1890. 2. The Book of Mormon does condemn polygamy in Jacob 2:27, but then in verse 30 the Lord gives an exception to the rule, “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up ​​​seed​ unto me, I will command my people;” see also 2 Samuel 12:7-8. 3. There is a plethora of evidence that suggests that Joseph Smith did indeed practice polygamy. One obvious example would be all the women, including Eliza R Snow and Helen Mar Kimball, who admitted to being sealed to Joseph before his death. Did Brigham pay or bribe all these women to lie about it? I doubt it. 4. Joseph Smith handled polygamy in the worst ways possible because he feared the wrath of Emma more than God’s. He thought he found a loop hole by marrying for eternity only women who were already temporally only married. 5. Those letters by William Smith sure seem incriminating, however we need to look at them with the context I provided in the first four points above. I would also ask were William got his suspicions from and what makes him think that Samuel was poisoned by order of Brigham Young.

@@freethinker1026 1. Hyrum’s son, Joseph F. Smith, was not the one to end polygamy. That honor belongs instead to Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the church on October of 1890.

@@stevenpictures1 People were still secretly entering into polygamous marriages after Woodruffs manifesto. It wasn't until Joseph F. Smith essentially issued another manifesto threating excommunication that it really ended. You are reading Jacob 2 with the interpretation you have been given. Read it in context. The command is not to practice polygamy. And God has proven since the creation that he does not need polygamy to raise up seed. That Nathan says God gave David everything, including wives, does not mean literally. Everything we have technically comes from God. But unless you believe God contradicts himself, God didn't tell David to practice polygamy or give him extra wives as in Jacob 2:24 he says it was abominable before Him. Eliza R. Snow was married to Brigham and the story about Emma pushing her down the stairs has been proven a lie. It was Heber who told his daughter Helen he wanted her to marry Joseph. Helen never left her parents house until she married Horace Whitney. There would be no need for Brigham to bribe most of the alleged wives of Joseph as the majority of them were married to either Brigham or Heber and they all had a vested interest in protecting the practice of polygamy and thereby their families. There isn't a shred of credible contemporaneous evidence to substantiate the claim that Joseph was a polygamist. To accuse Joseph of fearing man (Emma) more than God, wow. Emma was not known for having a temper and Joseph wasn't known for being afraid of persecution. You are believing things that fly in the face of every testimony and document we have about them. Do you also believe Brigham's lie that Emma poisoned Joseph? Young Samuel died within a month of his brothers under suspcious circumstances. Samuel's wife and daughter also believed he was murdered. Writes author Richard Abanes: "[In the wake of Josepsh Smith's death,] Samuel Smith . . . seemed a reasonable choice to many Saints [for the Church's next president]. In fact, he nearly took control of the Church before the Twelve had returned [to Nauvoo], much to the irritation of Willard Richards, who wanted no leader to be named until all the Apostles were present. "Richards may have gone so far as to have Samuel murdered to prevent any succession. Samuel's wife believed this to be the case, naming as her husband's murderer the Chief of Police--Hosea Stout, a Danite widely known for having a violent streak and a cold-hearted disposition. "Everyone knew he was more than capable of homicide. He had already been, and would continue to be, connected with several murders and assaults involving apostates and Church critics. . . . "In the case of Samuel Smith, Stout had acted as Samuel's care-giver when he fell ill, and in that capacity had given Samuel 'white powder' medicine daily until his death. Samuel's wife, daughter, and brother . . . all believed the powder to be poison." (Richard Abanes, "One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church" [New York, New York: Four Walls Eight Windows, 2002], p. 207)

Lol. Yeah… we’re so defensive that we invited him to come on our show… and so obtuse, he came back… lol.

You make solid points but I would ask what is your evidence that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and not a narcissistic charlatan?

Your comments reveal that you didn't give much attention, or even watch the documentary of Justin's.

It's ridiculous if they wanted the prophet en his brother killed, the just have to do nothing and the mob will killed them ( like they actually did) no need to murder there brothers it's really ridiculous, it's don't make any sense. This guy is crazy, he really confused the Spirit with the devil 😈. I served a mission, I have two brothers than are inactive, my oldest brother come up with his unique believe he is 💯 procent " sure" it's is the holy ghost, he believe the prophets are wrong, his core believe is that Jesus Christ did not suffer for us, but he show us how we have to do like he did, he believe that in this life we have to become perfect and transform or body to perfection. If not we are doomed to reincarnation until you do it in the flesh. I know it's crazy and ridiculous,but he believed it is the only way and the only truth.

And it is awesome, keep up your powers of observation.

Getting an answer from the Holy Spirit and gaining a spiritual witness are two different things?

@@CMZIEBARTH regardless we still have a case where two groups are claiming that they receive answers from the holy spirit and they arrive at two different conclusions. How do we know which conclusion is correct?

@@dukeofsahib4967 By actually and truly having the Spirit with us individually.

@@CMZIEBARTH ok, so how do we actually and truly have the spirit with us? Both camps (along with muslims, evangelicals, and other religious sects) sincerely believe that they have the spirit with them.

@@kraniodesign4555 That's for each individual to work out. There is no wording that can come from someone that can perfectly explain it to another person. Someone thinking they have the Spirit with them doesn't mean that they do.

Oi! I have lived in Brazil before and I can tell you what an amazing country it is. It is unfortunate that such bad things happen to good people. The Brazilian people are some of the best in the world. Amo vocês brasileiros!

@@jacobbuzan374 Thank you, brother. Brazil is one of the best countries in the world. It is a pitty corruption destroys it.

Actually D&C 45 says only those who can hear and follow the spirit will be saved in the last days. It’s the real leap of faith.