I just noticed - when zelda places down an item, it uses up one of the triangles from the tri fairy so that's probably the limit, it seems to start at 3 and you earn more, potentially like heart containers?
Seems you can excede the limit by a bit as well. At 4:41 I noticed the first bed that was places begins to flash yellow, most likely as an indicator to let you know it’ll be destroyed
The number of items you can place at a time probably is limited because if you look in the trailer every time Zelda places an item one of the triangles that floats behind Tri get's put over the item and in the menu it has like a symbol for how many triangles are used this number probably increases throughout the game by collected something
Idk. As a person who is used to pause menus since og OoT. I really don’t mind this issue. Although I think the radial system might be good. Im fine with either.
good point compared to ocarina of time n64 we can’t complain LOL - but I’m defo thinking this will be a big contentious point for the game years from now as it may lead to players being less creative out of choosing whatever’s convenient - hope I’m wrong and the game has a menu system I’m not yet realising!
Zelda 1 recognized the problem of having a large inventory and presented them in a grid menu with the ability to hotkey them. Subsequent games increased the number of hotkeys as controllers gained more buttons. They could EASILY make a hotkey system for a radial quick menu, yet for some reason they insist on presenting these gargantuan lists of items as linear menus.
What would be the point of a radial quick menu of hotkeyed items. If you sort your list by most recently used or most used it's more or less the same thing. Radial menus are also controllded one of two ways. Either you point the analog stick in a specific direction and it just goes to that angle position. Or like it did in TP with its radial menu where it was a glorified list where you tapped left and right to move round the radial menu. Using radial angled direction is not as user friendly as you think. Especially as you add more items to they radial menu they become harder to select quickly. If you also have to spend your time in the main menu hotkeying items doesn't they defeats the point of a quick menu? If you hotkey 8 items you'll then spend all the time just using those 8. It encourages less experimentation on the fly. I saw the same arguments about totk but never saw someone present a workable solution that makes selection as quick, ensure more experimentation, and let you sort quickly without needing to scan through a grid or radial list of ever changing items. There are pros and cons for all menu types in games. I'm a ui designer. And I see backseat designers all the time think they know what they want but in reality they really don't. There's also the aspect of what the game designer wants to encourage users to do. Which often gets overlooked by gamers. Unless you're Mark Brown analysing the hell out of this stuff. Radial menus would be less efficient than the quick menu if you want to select something you've used recently but not in the past 8 to 16 items as the higher that number of items appear in a radial menu the harder it becomes to select without making a mistake. It's the reason radial works in shooters because you don't have as many guns.
@@neonswift To answer your first question, one immediate difference between a radial "hotkey" menu and a "most used" list is muscle memory. With the "most used" options, items are prone to changing places and the player has to always think and look for what they want to use, which adds to the pace-breaking nature of the menu. Consider how much simpler it is to select a rune in TOTK compared to selecting a certain item from your first 8. From its very inception, the Zelda series had the design challenge of giving the player too many items for the amount of buttons available. They solved that problem by letting them place items into hotkeys, a solution that got better as more hotkeys became available and better still when the Wii-U gamepad allowed for more seamless hotkey changes. That solution worked because players set the items they expect to use in a certain situations. If players never change their hotkeyed items, that only means the game is not giving them reasons to change it, which is a fault of the game design and not the menu. As far as experimentation goes, I fail to see how pausing the game to select items from a GRID to put into hotkeys is anything but an improvement over scrolling through a linear list. If I want to try out an item I haven't used before I need to spend a whole minute scrolling. If I want to try out another item, that's another minute scrolling. Meanwhile with a radial "hotkey" menu, I could just pick a bunch to try out in quick succession.
I mean, it definitely looks like there’s gonna be separate categories in the item management judging from the dots underneath, but even if it’s organized by like enemies vs decoration or something like that, that’s still a LOT of items 😅
I agree, a radial system would make it a LOT more bearable, maybe you could even organize them to your preferred orders. Can't WAIT to play the game regardless though!
I’m really worried about this too. It was SUCH a big issue with Tears, even though it might not seem like much. Hope that notebook system actually does have a way to sort them out..
I noticed that too!! They must love that pause menu 😂 but at least this game it seems like that object is attached to a button instead of having to fuse something individually each time.
I feel like the bed is the end all be all way to get height, we saw it all throughout the trailer. I'd like if each item had it's own drawback so there wasn't the risk of something like the hoverbike situation in TOTK.
4:00 i notice it particularlly because the brightbloom seeds and the bombs are far away from eachother and the keese eye are distanced from those items too
Honestly, I've had a few issues with the menus in Tears of the Kingdom, but I do recall having a small issue with the list of items just recently. Whenever I'm attaching something to an arrow or throwing something down, I tend to like the Most Used sorting, but when I'm just going through the menu, I oftentimes prefer the sorting by type. It is a little annoying to switch between those sorting systems. I'd rather it be in the back of my mind. At one point I accidentally sorted my main weapon's menu, and now I get kinda lost in it. I got used to the sorting by retrieval, but that's not a sorting option, so I couldn't get it back. As for an unrelated menu issue, I could be wrong, but I could have sworn saving was in the minus menu for Breath of the Wild, which through me off starting out Tears of the Kingdom, and onward that still feels like it would have been more intuitive.
In general I think the way in which Zelda games have recently been striving for "INFINITE POSSIBILITIES" is getting a bit ridiculous.. it was perfect for BOTW, but TOTK? i don't need to be able to attach every type of food/insect/frog/bodypart to an arrow when that mechanic is only built for like 5% of items and the rest is just subtle damage buffs, AND you have to attach every item manually for every single arrow making it slow I get they want you to play the game in your own silly way and get creative with it but i wish you were just able to sort items with your own preference instead, and that items with identical functions get grouped together (like, at 2:56, what is the difference between a square table and a round table?? 😭😭😭 this is what i mean by ridiculous)
In both BotW and TotK I always swapped weapons/shields using the pause menu because the grid menu is sooooo much better than those vertical and horizontal lists both games have
I think the summoning system will be very simple: you can 'upgrade' Tri, who will have more triangles the more you upgrade. Summoning something like a bed or box will take 1 triangle, but spawning an enemy will take 2
While your criticism is valid and your suggestion for improvement of the inventory makes sense and is good, I feel like some people exaggerate the annoyance of having a long list of items, and act like it has destroyed TotK and will destroy EoW. I mean it was sortable by multiple options in TotK, so if you selected the "Most used"-option, most of the time not much had to be scrolled in the menu. And I feel it will be similar in EoW as well. Without this option, yeah, I'd agree that it would've been a horrible system. Honestly, I have a feeling many people (probably including me) will just resort to using waterblocks when having to gain height quickly, since you can just stack them on top of each other while (unlike with tables) you will only need one column to advance the player-character (upwards, in this case). But so far, I don't really mind that - I just hope we don't get waterblocks early into the game. They seem to be obtainable in the other dimension, so there's hope they are more a midgame-item. Considering you brought up the worry that people might skip creative ways to pass a puzzle, I feel like this second paragraph of mine still connects to your video...
Idk dude I think you just wanted to rush out a video on a hot topic here but I love your presentation and you seem pretty entertaining and positive which is great. There's 5 Sorting Options in the Echoes menu shown in the trailer, we see the "Last Used" one, it's gonna be fine!
@@GettingMadz honestly I didn’t even have a problem with this whole thing in tears of the kingdom, so I don’t really see this making a problem in echoes of wisdom
The menus of TOTK being just slapped into this game as they were in TOTK is definitely a problem, but I don't know if Mario Maker's system necessarily works all that much better. We just need better sorting(more categories) and maybe some option to favorite certain objects manually. TOTK worked okay, but I ended up just ignoring so many of the items that existed because I never wanted to scroll to find the ones I didn't already use the most, and also certain items like the brightbloom seeds would always inevitably be at the top of the most-used list.
I think that having a way to ‘favourite’ items would help fix the problem and after pressing the sort button in the menu it could swap to the favourites tab
@@user-rv7lq6wr2o I'm sure that'll be fixed around the end of the game. Though imagine if after a certain point you can go co op with someone as Zelda and someone as Link
My opinions are quite complex, Michael, I am unsure if I'll like the gameplay or not. I feel I may wait until it comes out to see reviews and gameplay to truly decide. I've never played a 2D Zelda and this one is quite unique. Will I give it a go? We all must see.
Another big fear of mine is that the tight and focused dungeon design, one of the highlights of 2D zelda, would be compromised by the freedom offered by the echo mechanic. Similiarly to Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom
That's what I'm worried about too. I was willing to accept the new style of the 3D games if 2D Zelda kept what made the series great, but now they're dumbing that down too? Why? I'm tired of the Garry's Mod sandbox shenanigans, I just want a Zelda game.
I really wished they would have went with a different UI than a minimalistic one. Something more like A Link Between Worlds with how it's UI icons and menus are done I feel like would fit much better than the modern simple design they chose
Pretty sure we can't spam echos in the game. Watching the trailer, each time Zelda spawns something, the fairy loses a 'triforce' from it's head. A max of 4, at least in the trailer, assuming we can't upgrade Tri later.
A radial system would not work in this game. There are way too many items. Radial becomes harder to select items the more you add to a radial menu. Mario maker has considerably less items. It doesn't work no matter what you think. If you split into lots of radial menus you then have to navigate back and forward so much. Radial menus absolutely suck. They work in games like first person shooters because you have less weapons to navigate through. I spend a lot of time analysing software as I'm a designer. Trust me. It wouldn't make it easier when you get to the same number of items that totk got harder to navigate. You could implement a menu that is like the pause menu but that defeats the point of a quick menu on the dpad. In totk you would go into the menu to search through and drop what you needed to marge but that pauses the game too. You cannot have a grid menu easily nevigated without pausing the game. The quick menu in totk worked for when you needed to select something powerful or recently used because you only needed to pause for a split second. Otherwise you should jump into the main inventory menu.
If this issue stays in the game, it will suffer from the same thing totk does, where there may be hundreds of items you can use, but you just use the same 5 items over and over again because of how inconvenient it is to use others.
Do you know what would be perfect - Be able to favorite the items you use the most, after you favorite them they move to the very first few items. I think this would help.
The gameplay of this game heavily reminds me of the post game of anodyne which has a similar wand based ability to move any tile in the world to somewhere else
For people who care about lore i think uts in the dead link timline in a sort of like a mirror to the legend of zelda nes or after it wich shows link getting sucked in
Getting used to a poorly designed menu doesn't mean it isn't poorly designed. They had six years to come up with something better and they just didn't even try.
Maybe they should h e just made a Zelda maker, I didn’t like the crafting in tear of the kingdom nor did I like the links awakening remake so this one to me is giving wand of gamalon if anything won’t be getting it cute idea and all but I wanna fight as Zelda not summon beds and chairs
Nah the biggest problem is that it’s called legend of zelda and not legend of link since everyone that doesn’t know anything about Zelda thinks that link is called Zelda
How to fix this game: Give Zelda a sword, shield, bow, etc. and make it a dungeon crawler where she has to use stealth and subterfuge (both acts of wisdom, mind you)in order to find new tools and defeat the dungeons. There, I fixed it. You're welcome. We haven't had a proper Zelda game since Twilight Princess.
What an insane focus for the first Zelda focused game ever. First video of yours I've ever been recommended and I definitely won't watch more. What a terrible attitude
