The Obstacles to a Return of the Quebec Nordiques 

If the nordiques come back I will personally go to Quebec city to see them play

Crazy how popular the Nordiques are even today. In the Avs team store, you can still buy Nordiques jerseys and gear

I could listen to Shannon read the phone book. His videos help me get through my long days between nursing school and my full-time job as a machinist. I would love to see Quebec City get a NHL team again. 😊

I truly feel for the fans in Quebec. It’s a total hockey city, and they have been waiting an awful long time to get a team. I hope it works out for them..

The problem is the disconnect between "growing the game" and profits. Quebec will obviously generate immediate profits, but the nhl is saying they want to grow the game. But when there are constant and distracting ads, blackouts, ignoring fan feedback, and making it prohibitively expensive to go, you're gaining immediate profits at the expense of growing the game. The disconnect is frustrating and is making a less enjoyable product with people who want to see a classic team return feel like they're getting the short end of the stick for no reason

As a Canadiens fan, I admit that I miss the Habs-Nordiques rivalry.

Not only is Peladeau loaded, but conveniently his company, Quebecor is the operator of the Videotron Centre, the new rink in Quebec City.

Shannon gave us a better explanation in 1/2 an hr, than the league has given us in decades

Hello from Quebec city :-) I grew up a Nordiques fan. They moved when I was 12. Hockey has never been the same after that. I miss making fun of Habs fans :-) Would be fun to revive the rivalry.

There is one thing you didn't mention in your analysis; the Quebec / Montreal rivalry was one of the most intense (if not "the" most intense) in hockey history...in my opinion that has to count for something and at the same time would generate new fans because a lot of those new fans have parents that lived that rivalry and would pass down that knowledge to them...just my 2 cents worth. Great video!...stay safe!

Crazy to think the Flames were bought from Atlanta for only 16 million dollars. And that was a record breaking high price for an NHL team back in 1980! Those days are long gone. I hope Quebec City gets an NHL team back some day but it would cost a lot of money.

It’s interesting that Seattle has a team now, because I was hearing for years about the threat of the Canucks, especially when John McCaw bought the team, moving there because of the Canadian dollar, coupled with how bad things had gotten for the franchise in general. People think things are bad now for the Canucks and I don’t dispute that, but they were scary for a while in Vancouver just a few years after 1994. Things went from amazing to near disaster fast.

As a Leaf fan I love the Nordiques logo. Everytime I visit Quebec, I buy a Nordiques hat or toque.

MOST thoughtful explanation I’ve heard on why NHL return to Quebec is not likely. Well done, sir!

If Quebec city gets a team I will cheer for them. I am planning to move to Quebec City within the next 5 years. Once I'm almost fluent in French I will move.

Avalanche fan here since day 1. I am so grateful Denver got graced with this incredible franchise in 1995 and winning the Stanley Cup in 96 and basically those first 7 years were absolutely epic. The success of the Avalanche as a whole is proof that the move was not a mistake, even if we went through our own stretch of misery that very much rivaled the Nord's late 80s/early 90s. Having said that living on the East Coast for some years now has allowed me to visit Quebec City a couple of times already. And man I love every bit of that city! People who haven't been don't realize how quite unique that place is. Quebec reminds me a lot of Prague actually with the citadelle, the old town and all. The fact that they built a bona fide NHL arena and still haven't been awarded a franchise is an absolute crime in my opinion. I get that in the short term, the financials don't speak for Quebec City. But with some 25 years of data, can we say that some of these sunshine state teams have really worked out? Atlanta certainly didn't. Arizona? 1 decent playoff run and they are now playing in a college arena. Is that a success story? Even the Panthers really haven't been all that convincing as a franchise. You said it yourself. The Nordiques have obviously become a bit of a cult with their pijama style uniforms, their lovely postmodern igloo logo. And this is what makes for great marketing today. Great iconography with a mysterious Cold-War era background story. It's like a James Bond wrapped up with an original pair of Jordans. Why Bettman is unwilling to see that is beyond me. Well, it's not beyond me. The NHL leadership is a bunch of old dudes who lack vision...like Jeremy Jacobs. Who cares what an 83 old geezer says who probably can't even use a cell phone.

I remember the short lived but well regarded Las Vegas Thunder. They proved (like the Chill in Columbus) that the city could support hockey. Love them or hate them at least the fans have taken to the team and they have generated exposure around the world in non traditional hockey markets.

I meet people on a daily basis who dont know about hockey and are semi interested to learn and I always recommend this channel to them!

I am in Quebec City and we still feel the pain of our loss... What about the Winnipeg Jets with a 15k seats building compared to us with a top of the line building of 18 500 in a similar market and in the same country ? Peladeau is a separatist and I don't see the NHL willing to have anything to do with that guy... The Desmarais family (Power Corporation) is the one to get it back imo ... Thanks for speaking about it :)

I grew up following the WHA as well as the NHL. Hated when Quebec left. Cried when Winnipeg left. But this is one of the most level-headed, smart examinations of why the NHL’s not rushing back to Quebec and it’s not Bettman’s fault. Also loved that he explained well why the NHL had interest in Seattle and Vegas being good quickly and how the salary cap helped that happen. The first NFL expansion after 19 years and a salary cap introduction produced Carolina and Jacksonville, which were very good very fast. Also, this isn’t the 1970s or 1980s - you can’t suck your first 8 years or more the way Washington or the Scouts/Rockies/Devils did and expect people to pay modern cost of attendance (tickets, parking, concessions). Even in Canada (except Toronto), if you suck for too long, attendance drops. Suck longer, apathy sets in. With free agency, the cap, and event drafting, that shouldn’t happen but look at Florida until they got their shit together a few years ago. Anyway, great video.

2nd toronto team would be so funny 😁 especially when they get to round 2 before the leafs 😂

"The years just seem to blend in the older you get", how true a statement, Shannon. I'm much older than you, and it's true what people used to tell me as I got older, that the older you get the faster time goes by. I do wish the Nordiques were still a team up in Quebec, but I don't think they want 2 teams in Quebec, and they need a bigger stadium. Still have my Nordiques jersey.

I’ve been an Oilers fan my whole life, but the only other team I ever truly rooted for was the Nordiques. A lot if it could be because I always liked Stastny and Goulet. And truth be told, I always had a soft spot for the Whalers and Jets too so maybe there’s a WHA connection involved, although I wasn’t even alive when the WHA folded. I could never understand why the Nordiques never came back. I was on the “Bettman Hates Canada” bandwagon, until I remember in 1997 (I think) when Pocklington was wanting to sell my beloved Oilers and some guy from Houston (ironically) wanted to buy the Oilers and move them down there. The Jets and Nordiques were already gone, and it looked like the Oilers, Senators, and Flames could and most likely would be next to head south. Bettman brought in that program for the Oilers, Flames, and Senators where they would receive funding on the conditions that they would hit a percentage of attendance and commit to eventually building new arenas. I guess when you’re just a teenager and you watched teams like the Nordiques and Jets go rather quickly and your favourite team could be next, you just look at the blame at face value. There are some comparatives between the mid/late 90s and today. I’m doing my best to not get political but it does have a lot of bearing in this (believe it or not). Back then, we had a Liberal government in power who overspent badly and took Canada into a recession and a big devaluing of our dollar with a rise in cost of living. Today, we have another Liberal government who has overspent even more so, a larger devaluing of our dollar, and yet a higher cost of living. When your team has to charge so much for tickets, and then charge even more, it’s harder to get to games. When everything else becomes so expensive that you are jostling money around figuring out how to buy the necessities in life and working as much overtime as you can just to get ahead, it’s tough. I live three hours east of Edmonton just an hour into Saskatchewan. In the late 2000s to mid 2010s i would easily go to at least one Oilers game a season. That’s the ticket(s), the petrol to drive there and back, going for lunch, getting a hotel room, beer at the game. Now, I’m seriously considering cutting my television just to eliminate another bill. I’m not trying to get sympathy nor trying to push a political issue, I’m just stating facts. And I totally get why the NHL is bullish on returning to Quebec City at this time. I’m just one example, and all things considered I’m in somewhat decent shape financially compared to a lot of other Canadians.

That was probably the best discussion I have ever heard on the subject of the Nordiques and expansion in general.

Ah yes, every hockey fan's favourite topic to come back to every 8-12 months.

If Quebec get's an NHL team then Toronto might want one.

I saw this video recommended by a fan on facebook. I'm glad I came by to watch. Subscribed and looking forward to really checking out your channel in depth. Greetings from the sad city of Philadelphia

im 40 and i had the chance to see the nordiques about 75 times. I can see the old colisee from my backyard. Thanks for your love of the nordiques !

I'm from Quebec and I was in the building for the last game ever. The Nordiques were my favorite team growing up and it's because of them that I worked 15 years in the hockey world and fell in love with our beautiful sport. But, even if I would be so hapy to see them back, I have to be agree with you and I don't think they will be back. I think the only chance for that is to have a team in the Eastern Conference who ''WANTS'' to move to Quebec City. I know it's sad for people here, but we have to see the reality and often, reality sucks! Btw, keep doing that, I really love your content, one of my favorite discoveries this year on youtube! :)

I think if a Quebec team was to return to the league, they’d have to add another in the Western Conference to balance things out. For example Quebec/Houston. Same goes for adding a team in the West, there’d need to be a 34th team which would be in the East.

The NHL having a discussion with Quebec is simply showing respect. Nothing wrong with being courteous.

Here's to hoping the Nordiques return. Small market or not, I still think it's a bad look on the league to not have a team there.

Enjoyed this as a new hockey fan and recently moving to Northern New York, would be cool to see them come back and have another team relatively nearby. Hoping to go to a Canadiens game next year!

Up until recently the Florida Panthers would have been in the discussion realm about relocation to Quebec City however with their success in the past two seasons and the Panthers now on the cusp of their first ever Stanley Cup, Hockey passion has been rebirthed here in South Florida and the Panthers are here to stay long term.

And finally, I'm not surprised that tiny Saskatoon was having a hard time getting the yes votes, that eventually gave St. Louis enough time to make an 11th hour save. Saskatoon is like Green Bay. Big enough to support less than ten regular season home games (despite the Roughriders being based in even tinier Regina), but can they support 41 hockey games a season? Just because it's Canada doesn't automatically mean instant success. Of course, I would rather have Saskatoon over Arizona at this point if given the choice.

What a ridiculous franchise fee difference between Seattle and Columbus and Minnesota. Absolutely brutal in that time frame! How could a Canadian team not lose money, players get paid in US dollars and their revenue is in Canadian dollars for the most part, like you mentioned. As for Quebec, who’s going to want to live there.

As for new fans, talk to people in Quebec city area and a lot of them just arent hockey fans anymore. They completely boycotted the league but they would absolutely come back if Quebec had a team.

Gotta love that Shannon has the time, energy, and wrist strength to put this video together during the playoffs. Very interesting topic, unfortunate that it's not going to happen.

Great video. Perhaps you can do a companion video on the amazing unlikely circumstances that allowed the Winnipeg Jets to return to the league. And how Winnipeg would be sitting in the same situation as Quebec if they were looking for a team today.

Phase 1: Quebec City, Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake City Phase 2 : Indianapolis, New Orleans, Kansas City, Saskatoon

I love how people are bashing Bettman when he's one of the main reason we still have teams in Canada other than Montreal.

Like how you mentioned Hamilton as a spot for another NHL team. Such an overlooked location, and maybe just a bit cheaper than having to go to Toronto to watch the only Canadian team close by .

This was very interesting and informative. Thanks Hockey Guy!

Great video, great sports talk! Glad I found the channel.

“In Atalanta if there’s actual flame” Haha i see what you did there TFG

Whoa! I'm not sure if it was coincidence but I just commented about this as a video topic! This is awesome! I'm not sure if I had anything to do with it but I want to thank you for the video either way! Super cool to make a comment then it pops up on your feed

Great in-depth video. Thanks

"If there's actual *flame* where there's that smoke about Atlanta coming in....." I see what you did there.

The NHL will NEVER return to Quebec. Not happening. They will go back to Atlanta again and Houston first.

Quebec is a hockey city bringing fans and players from a large area. People that truly love and play the game day in day out. Not having a team there is a huge loss for the game holistically. It really shows the NHL is not about hockey it’s just about money. Maybe time for a change at the helm of the NHL.

Merci Hockey Guy, great assessment.

Wow what a great video. I saw you on Brodie Brazil’s channel and immediately subscribed to your channel. Growing up in NYC following the Isles and having lived 20 years on Houston, Houston can easily support the NHL.

Would Milwaukee be viable for NHL? I mean it's a hockey state in Wisconsin

Hi Shannon, I view 90% of all your videos, on a daily basis, and this one was MY favorite. Great video and hit the mark on every single point on the real obstacles that will make it challenging for the Nordiques to return to Quebec.

i went to quebec city for a flyers nordiques game the atmosphere was fantastic

vive le québec libre

Let me say this, when you are a distant #4 behind the others with a soccer league that is basically the soccer equivalent of the Indoor Football League creeping up on you, you have to cut your losses! Adding more expansion teams does NOT accomplish that! When the American college conference, The Sun Belt got raided by Conference USA about 10 years ago, the Belt lost some major metros. So they decided to reload by raiding small metros, but with hardcore ticket paying football fans from conferences like the Big South, Southern etc. And guess what? It has worked out great for them. Meanwhile, Conference USA with their big metros ended up being a dud. Now the shoe is on the other foot with The Sun Belt raiding Conference USA recently! In other words, Quebec City=Coastal Carolina of the Sun Belt. Arizona=Florida International of Conference USA.

one of my favorite channels, on any subject. ........i learn so much. thanks for posting.

I live in Colorado and obviously the Nordiques came here approximately 20 years ago and of course you all know the history. As an avs fan I feel like we almost stole a title from Quebec City. You won't hear me complain about the 3 Stanley cups. That being said I wish the great people in Quebec could get a team

Also, when it comes to expansion, don't. Relocate teams that don't deserve it. If it were up to me, -Relocate the New Jersey Devils. Three teams in the Big Apple metro is too many! -Relocate the Florida Panthers. Two teams in Florida is too many. -Relocate the Arizona Coyotes. There have been given chance after chance. Enough already! -Relocate the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Two teams in the Hollywood metro is too many. Should have gone to San Diego to begin with. -If Hamilton wants a hockey team, go get the Buffalo Sabres. -If Atlanta or Charlotte wants a hockey team, go get the Carolina Hurricanes. -If Cincinnati or Cleveland wants a hockey team, go get the Columbus Blue Jackets. -If Hartford wants a hockey team, go get the New York Islanders. My FANTASY division realignment: Pacific - Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton. Central - Colorado, Winnipeg, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas, Houston. Metro - Detroit, Columbus, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Long Island, Manhattan, Buffalo. Atlantic - Nashville, Tampa Bay, Charlotte, Boston, Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Toronto.

I appreciate you actually engaging with the issue and doing the research instead of just saying Bettman is evil and calling it a day. It’s interesting to hear the actual considerations that go into making this kind of decision.

Shannon, great analysis on this subject. Well thought out and sensible.

Impressive research, thank you for all your work and reminding us how it happened. 👍

Hey Shannon, a solution for smaller market : a coop owned team, a bit like the Green Bay Packers? Could the citizens of Quebec city who wants to be members just buy a part of the team? I'm sure plenty of fans would love to put of their money to claim they own a bit of their team! Love your content!

It would be cool if the WHA returned and we could see cool communities like Hartford and Quebec City again!

Ok I'm in the Phoenix area and you can rip AZ all you want but the market is huge and when the team has been good it can attract fans. Remember the NHL ran the team for years and they had their best success during that time. The logistics of the valley hurt the team with the location of the Glendale arena. You're talking about a metro area that is over 80+ miles wide. The drive to the far side of the valley during rush hour was a nightmare. If/when a Tempe stadium is built would be a huge win for the fans as it would make it easier for those from both sides of the valley. I am originally from Las Vegas (born and raised) and never would have thought a hockey team would be huge. What helped was good ownership and a winning team. So LV is proof hockey can succeed in AZ, it just needs a chance to have a run of success. Also the youth hockey here has really grown leaps and bounds with help from the NHL/Coyotes (example: Auston Matthews). So don't count AZ out. Yes Houston is a bigger market (7 million to PHX 5) but AZ already has the fans and history with the team.

My Canadian friends would love me. In Custom League in NHL I expand to 40 teams across 8 divisions with no conferences and Québec, Hamilton and Saskatoon are in, alongside Hartford, Houston, Atlanta, Utah, and Wisconsin.

I live 5+ hours away from mtl. I love hockey but never been to a game, been a fan of Montreal all my life. If there were a team in Quebec I'd go often and would change allegiance right away. The mtl-qc rivalry would make bank for the league and not only for the first years. Edit: tourism is really big in Québec city. That's a lot of international people coming to a city and maybe going to a game one night.

Their expansion was deferred not rejected I believe they will return sooner or later than expected just as I believe with Las Vegas and Seattle

This is the first video I came across from your channel and I like your style, no fuss, no BS, plain facts. Nothing you said in there was wrong. Cheers from Montreal!

I would love to see the Nordiques back in Qc City! Hey would it be amaizng if Quebec media etc had their way and all players were Quebec born players!

beauty jersey

Great video!! Thanks a lot

excellent podcast re this hockey subject....good info and great dialogue.and the podcaster does a very fine job of doing it !!!

I gotta say. Where I live, is equidistant from Boston, Montreal, and NYC. It’s cheaper for my wife and I to cross the border into Montreal, get tickets for us and our two boys, AND stay overnight, than it is to get two tickets and a cheap room in Boston or NY. Jeremy Jacobs should really give back to the bruins fans. Until then, I’ll keep going and watching the Canadiens live.

Great analysis. Finally someone who doesn't just automatically blame Bettman. Bettman is a good soldier and that's why he has the job he has. His boss isn't the fans. His bosses are the Board of Governors (owners) and the owners LOVE what he is doing in helping them make money. There was a saying in Moneyball (movie) that rings true here. "Baseball (hockey) can hate him, the great thing about money is that it buys a lot of thing. One of which is to disregard what baseball likes doesn't like." The owners know what they are doing and having growth of fans is more important to them than immediate profits. Deferred profits are promised to be bigger than cashing in today (that's their belief).

Amazing job man! You really know your stuff and you explain it so well. Thank you for the video. Liked and subscribed!

As a Coyotes fan I am intimately aware of the whole Quebec City situation. Not a day goes by when some enterprising Nords fan tells me that I am not worthy of being a hockey fan or having a home team because of where I live (I guess that didn't apply back in the good ol' days when I watched Wayne Gretzky play for the Indianapolis Racers, but I digress). Having said that, I would love to see the Nordiques back in the NHL. But it's got to make sense, and I think that there's not a way for it to happen without some sort of public subsidy arrangement similar to how the Jets worked out their deal with Winnipeg. If they can get that figured out, then by all means, put a team in Centre Videotron. The Nords/Habs rivalry would be incredible.

1) to throw people off you should keep the Nordiques sticker up for game 2 💀 and 2) as an Avs fan I would love to see the return of the Nordiques I could only imagine the Avs vs Nordiques game at ball arena that would be nuts

I love your approach on this topic. 👍

What hurts Quebec the most is the sales of cooperation (luxury)boxes they would need more investments from local companies to be viable.

Would a double expansion be possible? Houston gets a team and Quebec City gets a team? Double the profits for the NHL and balanced conferences. There isn't really that much of another option if the NHL wants balanced conferences, unless Toronto gets a 2nd team, which I doubt is likely

I think the "create new fans" focus from the NHL is to make broadcasting rights and sponsorship rights more valuable. That's mo' money for everybody in the league.

Just got back from Montréal and Quebec City. Best time ever. Only thing missing was playoff hockey. Quebec will make so much money and generate new fans immediately.

This has been the best vid I’ve watched in a while , thanks again

It's also a super french market like it or not and that's an issue! Like many times before, the team would have a hard time retaining players long term and attracting them to sign. You aren't getting Americans or Western Canadians, playing in Quebec long term, Montreal has a hard enough time.

It's funny to think about how Bettman saved Canadian teams back in the 90s and some people will say Bettman hates Canadian teams

Their logo and jersey is one of my favorites of all time. I hope they come back one day. I think it would be cool if we had a 4 way expansion draft where the Nordiques, Thrashers, Whalers, and a new team came in to be the final NHL teams to be added. Did you know that Winnipeg was actually supposed to be an expansion and Atlanta was supposed to stay, but things didn’t end up working out? This draft would essentially be bringing an alternative timeline into the NHL, where the Avalanche, the new Jets, and the Hurricanes were expansion franchises! I think that would be quite cool!

Good video a very thoughtful discussion

As a Coyotes fan I usually get the worst of the Francophone crying lol. I’d put some money in to bring the Nordiques back just so it stops.

I would love to see another New England team. Never gonna happen but it would be amazing.

Arizona is definitely a market that deserves a team. When they are playing well they draw a lot of fans and there's a ton of amateur leagues here. Also Austin Matthews is an Arizona native showing that people are playing and watching hockey here

Love how the series ended up!

I, quite honestly, do not see the NHL expanding any time soon. MLB will go to 32 long before NHL goes to 33 or 34.

Yes! I totally agree. I think fans think 'they'll fill the building! That's growth!' When it is just siphoning fans from other markets. Quebec City would be like owning the only coffee shop in town and then opening another. Would you get customers? Yeah, but you're just competing in a market that you already had. There are so many places that would be better for the game as a whole than QC. Nothing against the Nordiques, it's just a terrible market for growth of the game

Lots of work behind this video, well done Shannon!

If they come back ill go see them for sure!

A random scattered thought: Living in the southeast in the last 20 years really opened my eyes on something. The NFL does well down here. But if every single team moved north? They'd be like "well more money to spend on SEC football (and even to much lesser but still significant extent, ACC football). For a variety of cultural reasons, CHL/junior hockey does *NOT* have this same hold in Canada. For all we profess to love the game, we go bananas about junior hockey for 3-4 weeks in December/January, then go compartively apathetic about it the other 11 months of the year. Sure, the games are attended decently enough for the markets they're in, but NCAA football (the gridiron equivalent of junior hockey) is a *religion* down here. In a way CHL/junior hockey just isn’t in Canada. You don't have hours of time eaten up on Sportscenter evaluating the games, preseason, etc etc etc. In other words, the meccas of gridiron football don't need to beg for the NFL. They'd rather have it, absolutely, but college (and even high school) football is more than enough to sate their pride. If Canadian hockey fans built their entire fan culture & identity around the CHL the way southerners do around the SEC, it'd be the NHL begging them for more attention & not the other way around.

No more expansion. 32 is enough

Very clear commentary. Success in QC would have a lot to do with how much they can invest in players and the quality of coach they get - Vegas and Seattle did well in their first couple years. Both are clearly hockey towns. But they have to win early and often.