The great experiment of VCII and Pope Paul is failing...don't wait from Rome to help you reach salvation, it's our's to secure... Seek out a Holy Mass (Latin) and start attending...offer up the sacrifice of travel for atonement of sins.
The issue of con-celebration of masses in the novus ordo. concelebrating masses took away from the number of masses being said. I would like people also to understand how this is not Catholic and how it has contributed in the war against the Traditional Latin Mass.
I think that this(the Council of Trent) is the most compelling reason for rejecting the novus ordo. Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that Michael Voris doesn't include that among the issues he presents in his documentary Weapons of Mass Destruction. I assume the reason for that was because he didn't want to suggest that VII was an invalid council. What is more interesting is that I think (though I'm not certain) that Fr. Cedaka (sp?) also doesn't mention the Council of Trent in his series, Work of Human Hands. There wouldn't be any reason for him not to mention it.
The current thought in the Church however, Father, was introduced by Benedict XVI, that the two masses are different forms of the same rite, not two different rites. If there is disobedience, it is strictly within the modification understood as change.
Dear Friend, With all respect, saying something is so does not make it so, and there is no authority that can change the facts. The received and approved Roman Rite of Mass is not an extraordinary form of that rite, and neither is the Novus Ordo anything other than a New Rite. God bless you. Father Gruner
I often must aske myself, Father, is this a new rite which I am "celebrating". I ask myself that question almost everytime I celebrate the new rite. I have yet to come to a proper conclusion. I am confused. If I say yes, then that means that the sanctity of my ordination is questionable, or that my bishop and everyone around me is thoroughly decieved. If I say no, then I am left with contradiction on very high levels, considering quo primum. I celebrate the "old" mass twice a week. Few parishioners come. I could not force my parish to change because they clearly have shown contempt for Latin. What do you think? The consecration of NO is valid, but everything else is worthless drivel. The displacement of the phrase mysterium fidei worried me, however I do not think it is necessary to quote God directly, save in the equivocation hoc est...
mulg1 Dear Father, With your permission I would like to address your question in a larger forum where many people can profit from this important discussion, on my video program called Your Questions Answered. The new segments are posted routinely on both the Fatima Center's RU-vid and Facebook pages. God bless you. Father Gruner
So Fr. Gruner said the New Rite (which is supposedly to be the Roman Rite) should be forbidden? I read somewhere (maybe Fr. Hesse) that the New Rite is a schismatic Rite. What does it mean exactly?
Archbishop Vigano recently wrote on this very question: "It is not acceptable for the supreme authority of the Church to allow itself to cancel, in a disturbing operation of cancel culture in a religious key, the inheritance it has received from its Fathers; nor is it permissible to consider as being outside of the Church those who are not prepared to accept the privation of the Mass and the Sacraments celebrated in the form that has molded almost two thousand years of Saints. The Church is not an agency in which the marketing office decides to cancel old products from the catalog and propose new ones in their stead according to customer requests. Imposing the liturgical revolution with force on priests and the faithful in the name of obedience to the Council, stripping away from them the very soul of the Christian life and replacing it with a rite that the Freemason Bugnini copied from Cranmer’s Book of Common Prayer, was already painful. That abuse, partially healed by Benedict XVI with the Motu Proprio, cannot be repeated in any way now in the presence of elements that are all largely in favor of the liberalization of the ancient liturgy. If one really wanted to help the people of God in this crisis, the reformed liturgy should have been abolished, which in fifty years has caused more damage than Calvinism has done." catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2021/06/10/archbishop-vigano-considerations-on-the-feared-modification-of-the-motu-proprio-summorum-pontificum/
If we know better we should not go .. I go after mass is over and pray before the Sacraments and go to Confession and will now only go to EUCHARIST at end of Mass and I only take it from the Priest on the tongue .. only Scary... reminds me of Our Blessed Mothers Warnings that many priests take with them to perdition many of the faithful
What if this just means if a priest or even pope omits or changes something without the pope actually changing the Mass is a mortal sin. Like, if Pope Paul VI, hypothetically, celebrated the Old Mass and changed things himself at Mass. It could be about that, but not if he with his papal authority changed it to wear he can legally promulgate the Mass.
Yes. Without casting doubt upon the validity of the Sacraments administered according to their New Rites, we must remember that the Church's rites of worship are by nature traditional: "I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you..." (1 Cor. 11:23); "I delivered unto you first of all, which I also received..." (1 Cor. 15:3); "If anyone says that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments may be despised, or may be freely omitted by the ministers without sin, or may be CHANGED INTO OTHER NEW RITES BY ANY CHURCH PASTOR WHOMSOEVER, let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, Session VII, Canon 13, Dz. 856) God bless you.
@@TheFatimaCenter so if there is no traditional confession around I would have to make an act of contrition at home until I find a traditional priest right?
@@bradycutler8192 On a normal basis, yes, but if you have the misfortune to fall into mortal sin, it would certainly be worthwhile to approach any priest as soon as possible -- an Eastern rite priest, for instance, or even a Novus Ordo priest whom you could ask to administer the Sacrament in the traditional rite. (You could bring a copy of the words for him.) If he refused to use the old rite, you would do well to confess anyway, and the burden of his refusal to use the proper rite would be on his conscience. God bless you.
@@TheFatimaCenter But how come it is not permissible to attend a Novus Ordo, which I know it is, but permissible if there is not traditional priest, to attend the Novus Ordo confession? Thank you and sorry for the many questions.
Also, one of the many reasons it is not permissible to attend the Novus Ordo is because of doubtful validity of not only the Mass, but of the priest's Holy Orders. This is why the SSPX re-does Holy Orders for Novus Ordo priests who enter because of that doubt. It is sacrilegious to partake in a sacrament with doubtful validity. The reason I ask is because I go to a high school where the only source of confession for me is a Novus Ordo priest who comes to offer it, and I'm wondering if I should or should not go if I'm in mortal sin, and instead make a perfect contrition until I can find a traditional priest. I didnt think it was permissible to take part in any Novus Ordo rite, since Trent says "changed into other rites" not "other forms of the Mass." And confession is a rite of the Church. Would this also apply to blessing in the Novus Ordo form? Thank you.
It is more precise to speak of objective matter of sin than of actual personal sin. The First Commandment forbids false worship, which would include worship of the True God in a manner contrary to divine law or to the established traditional rites of the Church.
"received rites from the Apostles?" I doubt the Apostles said the TLM. what is this all about? Trent was a Counter-Reformation council 500 years ago. The Church needs to move on and away from that Counter-Reformation mindset.
The similarities and parallels in all of the Church's traditional rites point to a single model upon which they were formed. Father James Meagher writes in "How Christ Said the First Mass": "The Liturgy of the Passover was the foundation on which the Apostles formed the fifty-four different Liturgies of the Mass. The most famous, the Roman Rite, established by Peter in the Eternal City, and with little change, comes down to us under the name of the Latin or Roman Mass." (p. 389)
***** I doubt if I could go back to the Last Supper and watch what transpired there it would even remotely look like high mass at the local fssp parish. If anything I'd say the NO was closer to the original.
