There is a weakness I have found after using the optimal grip for about 3 years, and that would be needing to micro down. I have since transferred to a fingertip grip, but pushing my mouse at a diagonal with my thumb, so the mouse can be stable on the right side of my palm. I found this grip provides me with consistency, and better control towards my weaker sides. The downside with this grip is that you lose a little micro to the right side, but for me that is fine because it is my most consistent and accurate side. The point is that everyone is different and there is no such thing as an optimal grip, but rather you should tailor your grip so it can accommodate your weaknesses in your aim while maintaining a natural and comfortable feel.
For me, In this grip (With a mixed aim style, AKA wrist and arm aimming) my arm and wrist just don't move together well, I hit places where im "stuck" while tracking but when im in the range where its good its GOOD. Thing is, there are just certain things i can't do that i want to (especially in aim trainers) where i just don't have the range of motion to do them. I feel limited and don't like that. I notice in a weird type of "finger tip / claw" grip i use, where the whole back of my palm is off of the mouse i can move everywhere and anywhere without any "stuck feeling", But i just can't figure out why because its really not much of a change compared to the old claw grip i was using. Im guessing its some sort of bio mechanical issue where something just "opens up" when i switch to the new grip. It seems i don't sacrifice any control and only gain with this grip, but because im so "free" i end up out of my "optimal" ranges alot more and end up playing with my mouse at the very bottom of my mouse pad instead of the middle where it is with the other grip, I guess it just means i need to make the whole mouse pad my "opitmal range" but thats the only "hit" to my aim ive noticed.
Basically, your point is, every person will not totally benefit from the same/grip/position. Hence, there is no such thing as an "optimal mouse grip". I agree! I said up there in an OP: "First, the best mouse grip is actually having a mouse that fits in your hand well, to perfectly." I use a claw/tip grip. (I am right-handed.) My arm/hand points slighty to the left, which positions my mouse pointing a little to the left. For me, that allows a FAST perfect horizontal swipe from left/right and right/left. Also, my sensitivity is set up so as to only move my wrist. Little things can make a difference for each individual. For instance, if most people tested their movement distance, a right-hander may see that flicking 180 from center to left involves less mouse movement than flicking 180 from center to right. That was true for me. So, I taught myself to 180 flick left. (Of course, I may still flick right here and there.) Also, many people drag their pinky (or pinky tip) on their pad and don't even realize it. That was also true for me. I broke that habit by taping my pinky and third finger together. Heh heh! I don't do that anymore, but now that's not a problem for me. Different things can make a difference for each individual. As you pointed out, there may be pros and cons, but the point remains.
@@WorldKeepsSpinnin OK, I don't know if I can really help you. I mean, I bet my whole setup is different from the standard consensus. So, I will just write whatever. The main things people seem to be focused on now are grip, DPI, report rate, and low latency. (That, also in regards to system latency, FPS, and frame time.) Me, I have an old G-900: 1600 DPI; 1000 polling rate; no pointer precision. ASIDE: I never max FOV. I probably set in-game sensitivity higher than most people regarding and in relation to everything else. I do that to minimize mouse movement as much as possible but without over-shooting. I use my grip/wrist to move/aim. It's so rare my mouse comes off the pad I don't even think it ever does. From what I read, and I read it more than once, what seems to hinder you is too much mouse movement/distance. I don't know your system specs, but I can suggest - and maybe this is already true - whatever your monitor native resolution and refresh rate is, make sure your system/game supplies the FPS that equals the refresh rate. Depending, it may matter if it goes over. There are things to consider regarding that: Any kind of sync such as g-sync and vsync. Do you use the driver control panel, or not, for each game? Is your GPU usage at 99%? Do you use a frame limiter, such as RivaTuner. There is a lot to look into. Have you already set up everything the best you can regarding system latency, FPS, frame time, mouse DPI, polling rate, and in-game mouse sensitivity? You can also figure out how to correspond settings to different games so they match from game to game, so you are not good in one game and lacking in another because of different _feel._ You may already know all about everything, but since you did not mention it, I threw it out there.
I've pondered mouse grip for years as well, and recently I've kinda had a breakthrough I think. I also used to "anchor" my mice around the ringfinger knuckle part of the palm, or at least tried to because with many mice it's real awkward to do so as you probably know. I think I started out like that because the Logi G403 was my first mouse used in shooters and its pronounced hump made that grip possible and comfortable, but in turn I developed a kind of aversion to mice touching the fleshy part at the base of the thumb. For years I encountered mice that just wouldn't work right, like the Roccat Kone Pro which was an otherwise gorgeous mouse but I just couldn't unlock its full aiming potential with my grip as it was. So a couple weeks back I took the plunge and started anchoring it at the fleshy part of my palm (so, only rly the lower left part of the mouse touches my palm) and lo and behold, something just clicked in my brain when the mouse was more "to the left" within my hand. I found better spots for my pinky and Ringfinger, it was overall much less exhausting to use for a couple hours at a time, it didn't continually recede back into my palm when holding it like this (big issue with many mice without a juicy hump in the back when shoving them into your palm's right side), and somehow the position of the sensor within my hand was more in sync with how my hand moved in response to what was seen on screen. Wiggle room was still plenty, maybe even a little higher because of how stretchy the new anchor point is. That opened up a number of mice that it'd just written off and I can only recommend everyone to experiment with wildly different ways to position mice within the hand because you never know which combination works out with your particular hand shape & size.
Likewise bruva, I still have a few issues when pulling my mouse down into this fleshy part of my thumb where sometimes the fleshy part will almost obstruct or even get caught underneath the mouse when playing, does any of your knuckles touch the mouse with the new style? thanks for your insight man
This is the comment I needed, I have struggled for almost 2 years now switching and changing my grip style and I have been down the exact path you were I used to anchor with the right side of my lower palm and noticed inconsistency. I started using the fleshy part of my thumb although weird at first I really felt like i had control of where my sensor was going. My only issue now is that its gets a bit sticky and sometimes the skin of my thumb begins to go under my mouse and pinch me. Thank you for backing up my belief that this grip can work for other people.
@@supisal3401 I think it depends on the mouse, but not really, maybe one with a particularly high hump like the G403, or probably a Zowie ZA would (conjecture because I never owned one) Btw I currently main the Cooler Master MM731 because of its courageous departure from the Zowie EC ergo shape and especially the more forward sensor if you're wondering (beware of the gnarly Software though lmao. luckily you can set and forget about it for the most part, unless you like to switch binds around all the time)
Thank you so much for this, finding a comfortable grip on a mouse has always been a struggle for me, thanks for showing the touching points, especially the knuckles (2-3) I needed this!
I used to use the optimal grip but since everybody used palm grip i switched big mistake. Usualy people just say that each grib has pros and cons but they dont list them. Thank you really helped my accuracy went up by around 5 % and my worst accuracy stabled at around 50%
Luckily this is the natural grip I use when I switched from console to pc. Although it was subconsciously influenced cause I saw that most good aimers played a sort of claw fingertip hybrid in handcams it quickly became natural because I had no prior experience with a mouse.
Had a issue with finding a proper mouse grip for years. Tried every type of grip, mouse and mouse pads. finally found a perfect grip for myself from this video. man feels good
I’m literally giving up playing m and k. I have incredibly large hands (23 L 12.5 w). I’ve tried the deathadder v2 from a friend, g403, g903, g502. Nothing fits and aiming feels incredibly awkward. I try clawing fingertip etc but I just don’t have that feeling that I have full control of my crosshair. If only companies would give ppl like me an option for a suitable mouse. ( btw I have 400 hours in kovaaks so I’m totally convinced that my hand size is holding me back in terms of aim) Update: finally found the mouse I needed. It’s the Corsair rgb pro wireless. I have no idea how it fits me perfectly and my aim feels natural and smooth af. Srsly for guys that have big ass hands this is a must buy if you want to have good aim
That's a tough situation! Deathadder v2 is quite large, shame that wasn't a good fit. The hand in the video is 20.5 L 10.5 W and the Model D feels great if that provides any perspective at all. This blog may be helpful for you -themeta.com/blog/2020/8/27/optimising-your-mouse-width-with-a-simple-mod
I use a palm grip, changed my grip to this one to go through my KovaaK's playlist today. I just got new highscores in all scenarios by a significant margin. It also feels like it doesn't tense my arm up as hard as the palm grip. Thank god for this video lol.
@@r4nowo I did change a few months ago to a more versatile mouse. From a G402 to a Logitech G Pro Wireless. The G402 was kind of weird to hold unless you use a palm grip and the G Pro suits pretty much every grip.
man, thank you alot, you can't imagine the way you just helped me right now, I instantly improved my flicks by that vídeo and the other about flicking, I already had a really ok/good tracking but poor flicking and it helped me alot
Well apparently I’ve been using the right wrist placement and mouse grip subconsciously since I first switched to MnK a few weeks ago. No wonder my aim already felt so smooth and consistent despite being so new to using a mouse for FPS.
Do you keep your wrist planted on the mat as you move, and have it behave like a pivot point? I’m terrible at micro adjustments, and will often overflick short distances. Could doing that help?
someohow i am not able to replicate the optimal mouse grip shown in this video. i don't know what i do wrong but it just feels off. personally i use fingertip and it's been working really well for me but even with fingertip i struggle with micro-movements. got any tipps for me? i already play on a low sensitivity (for reverence: 400dpi 9vert, 9hor in rainbow six siege)
this grip works well for me so far. what i don't fully understand is if you say you can microadjust with your fingers, does the mouse still touch your palm when doing so? because if i move the mouse forward with my fingers while my wrist stays planted on the mousepad, the mouse doesn't touch my palm anymore and i lose a lot of stability and control. if i on the other hand just adjust a few mm so the mouse still is in contact with my palm, i can only go for very very small adjustments and they happen mostly by pushing the mouse further into my palm as opposed to pushing it away. so i'm not sure how to approach this problem and would be thankful for any advice.
It only works for very small adjustments like aiming from upper chest to head. The sensitivity you use will also impact the magnitude of these adjustments. Vertical aiming will generally require some arm/hand movements.
I actually do a weird holding style, I do palm grip, but my fingertips are raised just enough, so I can make micro adjustments, mostly used for spraying in csgo
I have trouble using my fingertips when i wanna make small adjustments do you have any advice on that? 17cm 9.5cm is my hand size and i use claw my mouse is the xm1.
Best not to overthink it, the fingertip movements usually aren't dramatic, and they complement simultaneous wrist/arm movements rather than move independently.
@@TheMeta Yeah what Kovaak said, remember your finger muscles are almost all controlled by your forearm muscles and tendons and then running down to your fingers. So think of you using these muscles in tandem with your fingers, this is true for always and even when it seems your hand and wrist are stationary.
Yeah your wrist should touch the mousepad. As for beating humidity, we actually have a blog on the topic that you may find quite helpful - themeta.com/how-checking-humidity-can-help-with-inconsistent-aim/
A strange thing happened to me where my hand seemed to force evolve my grip for me. I had been comfortably playing something of a loose fingertip grip on a small mouse (UL2) with larger hands (20x10 cm) for a while (with good results) until suddenly my hand just didn't like the grip anymore. I would feel like I couldn't hold my mouse right. And then the only grip that started to feel good (could still aim well and hold the mouse securely) was the optimal/claw grip you've highlighted.
RING FINRGER HURTS hey, so i have a big question im using the same claw girp and im prety decent with it, but i have a big problem i had to switch to finertip grip bc my ring finger hurts, not my finger actualy but... if u look ur ringfinger nail from above so the side wich is contacted to the mouse my nails kinda cutting in to my skin and it hurts whatever i do with my ring finger it hurts im i gripping wrong or what is happening somebody help thank you (sorry if i miss spelled something or its hard to understand english is not my first launguege
Probably because you’re using you’re whole arm the tracking is insane! I am a claw player personally, but I try to change grip mid game, so hybrid you could say, I will try fingertip for tracking and and claw for the rest
I always seem to change grips between claw and 2 types of finger tips...1 where it's like shown in the video and the other a more relaxed and only the tips of my fingers touch while the rest of my hand has a huge gap from the mouse so it's like I am pushing the mouse away. I can't palm grip, my hand just doesn't work that way...too awkward.
The optimal grip has the mouse sit against the base of your hand...so you can extend your fingers to aim up, but how do you aim down easily? The only reason it looks like you can vertically aim down is because you extended your fingers outwards (up) first, i.e., resetting your fingers back in will bring crosshair back to center position. From the optimal position, how do you aim down?
In the neutral position (not aiming up or down) there is some room to pull the mouse into the palm, pressing into the recess and against the skin. If it's a larger downward aiming movement your entire arm would move down.
im abit confused the thumbnail and the vid make conflicting points is my palm supposed to touch on the left or right side of the mouse? thumb says left while you say the righ t
Realistically, for the back of the palm the mouse is being gripped like this gyazo.com/dda1cf23113f7903410ba2fa3b616faf Where the green circles are in contact and the purple squiggle is not in contact. The thumbnail tries to indicate this with the blue lines. The video has more generalized advice for the back of the palm as this will change mouse to mouse. If I were to use a big ergo like the MX518 or just a wider mouse in general that purple squiggle would disappear.
@@TheMeta ah ty so much for the clarification, yup the thumbnail explained it perfectly got abit confused by the video but thanks for the clarification
If your wrist is hovering with that setup then you lose a lot of control, particularly over smaller aiming movements. Typically you don't want to be applying much force downwards into the mousepad which might be a problem if your palm is on top of the bump. Not saying you need to change what you are doing, but those are a few things to look out for.
Is that a model D-? I independently just started trying this 'anchored fingertip' palm hybrid where my ring and pinky are seated to the knuckle because my model o- felt really uncomfortable. I just ordered my D- yesterday and was wondering whether that was it or the Regular D.
I don't really get how you manage to use your fingers for vertical aiming without the mouse leaving the palm. Man, I've been experimenting with mouse grip for years now. Before I started experimenting, I had aim which felt really good. Now I can never find back to that feel, and I wish I never started experimenting. I want to just find a grip I know I have the most potential with, and stick with it, but I don't really understand if I'm doing this one right, as there are so many variables. Please halp
The fingers can help with some small vertical adjustments without it leaving the palm (like aiming from upper chest to the head), but for any significant movement you'll need to move the whole hand.
i tried doing different finger positioning or even slightly less curve but cant seem to find comfort. maybe its my mouse (razer deathadder v2) thats just not fit for my hand. edit: i had to force my hand to get used to it but after a while i was able to do a slight adjustment and it has the perfect balance of comfort and aim potential. TYSM
Maybe you can help me. I’m pretty much using the same grip. But I feel my pinky and thumb are in contact with the mouse pad, and I feel as though my wrist is fully anchoring and I’m mainly relying on my range on motion from there- which is wrist and fingers for the micro adjustments.. however that works well for static dots and target switching. But for tracking, I’m sort of doing this palm type, arm aiming thing where nothing is in contact with the mouse pad and I’m just touching the mouse only. It feels like I’m holding the target in my hands when I do this. Should I stick to one way? With my static dots grip I’m super shaky and inconsistent with speed tracking, I’ll be slow and then fast. But when I use palm and arm, I can control the tracking better.
Wouldn't recommend planting the wrist, or having a floating arm while tracking. Ideally you'll still have your wrist and forearm in contact with the pad, you just slide it around as you aim. If your arm sticks to the pad you may want to look at getting a sports sleeve to reduce the friction.
Wouldn't worry too much about forcing that. Hand and mice size will change things between players. If you can only get your knuckles to touch that's fine :)
I am a fingertip user with my wrist always planted, it's not floating. I almost never use my whole arm, my sensitivity is high enough so that when I swipe hard left or right I turn 180 degrees... "Optimal" grip works well for swiping left and right cause it's almost the same range of motion as fingertip but yes, with some more stability. But for vertical aiming I don't find it useful at all comparing to fingertip, because basically I have no range of motion. With fingertip I just move my fingers up and down while my wrist is planted, but with "optimal" my fingers are not longer free to move up and down, I'd have to move my whole arm.
Which mice are suitable for this sort of grip with a 15cm small hand? There are a lot of smaller office mice especially Hama Torino that feel comfy to me but no gaming performance mice. Currently using the Logi g300 but unhappy with the shape. One of the limitations I have is ring finger and pinky injury on my left hand so I prefer to have extra buttons on my mouse.
Hey Kovaak, i have some questions about this grip, i'm using fingertip but sometimes i'm just inconsistent and the grip just don't feel that stable, i'm tryng this grip that you show and i just realize how dependent i am on using my fingers to aim, so you think is worth keep this grip until it becomes natura ?, and you have some tips abou a sensitivity to make this transition better?!
Would recommend at least experimenting with this grip as there may be some small refinements that make it feel more comfortable than trying to directly copy what you see in the video. This grip would best suit mid-range sensitivities around 25-45cm/360. After experimenting with alternatives you should use what feels and performs best, which may simply be your original fingertip grip.
I have a claw-fingertip hybrid grip. Meaning that my fingers are arched as in a claw grip, but there is zero palm contact. As a result, I struggle with stability issues. I have a Model O Wireless, G305 and a GPW Clone and I find it so hard to touch the palm to the back of the mouse. Any tips?
Having it physically touch the center of your palm isn't really viable or necessary for many mice. You are primarily gripping the mouse with the knuckles of your pinky and thumb. Your fingers apply a small amount of force to pull the mouse into the back of your palm (even though it doesn't touch) which keeps things feeling stable and secure. Can't really see the benefit of having arched fingers for claw grip as that makes things feel less stable as you typically want your m1/m2 to be as low to the table as possible.
@@TheMeta Yes, I've recently been trying to extend my index and middle finger towards the front of the mouse more and it does feel a bit stable, but micro-adjustments get sightly restricted. I'm not used to longer mice, so let's see how it ends up.
Wouldn't focus too much on forcing it into a particular position as hand size and mouse shape will differ greatly between people. The main things to look out for are the position of the fingers. Personally, while I have multiple knuckles touching, it's primarily the pinky and thumb knuckles gripping on.
1:43 If a grip relies on palm support, that grip is definitely not fingertip. That grip right there is just a relaxed claw grip, and its freedom of micro-adjustments is nowhere near that of a fingertip grip. My hand is 20x10cm and I use a knuckle-fingertip grip. My grip is basically fingertip, but with my knuckles resting toward the back of the mouse for more stability. When I start controlling recoil, I transition into pure fingertip by lifting my knuckles off the mouse a bit. (My palm never touches the mouse.)
I used this mouse and literally the same mouse grip before I watched this video. I think its because of the glorious model o that i use and that it is too big for fingertip grip so I balance it with a claw hybrid. The knuckes are kind of for support (atleast in my experience).
As a long time wrist aimer and fingertip gripper, how do you look up and down much with the optimal grip? Doesn't it just hit your palm? How do you look straight down without it hitting your palm before you even look at the ground?
Depends a lot on your sensitivity, in most situations it would be a combination of everything - fingers, hand, wrist & arm. If your sensitivity is very high it may be more heavily dependent on fingers.
Hey i have a question for you guys and ive been looking for help on my ADSa Sens and sens on call of duty, i play on 8.00 sens and 0.75 ADS how would i get the ADS sens to kovaaks
Do you think Viper Ultimate can be nice for this grip ? I got exactly the same grip as you and my hands are like 19cm/10or10.5cm I've tryed the G Pro X Superlight and surprisingly i don't really like the shape i think the back of the mouse is not wide enough horizontally for my hand, so i guess maybe the low profile and wider back of the Viper Ultimage will fit my hand better but i'm not sure... Currently i have a Deathadder V2 and like it a lot but i just wanna try an ambi mice again as i really used to love the Zowie FK1 few years ago.
omg I've been using relaxed claw grip this entire time I thought I was using fingertip and also I can't use palm tip as my fingers cannot breathe and get uncomfortable after some time
Yeah they should for most mice, unless there's some intense comfort curves that block it. They can help adjust your friction, add more stopping power to flicks and help with very precise aiming movements by anchoring them but still moving the mouse.
It really depends on the size of your hand vs the size of the mouse. Visit the website for rocketjumpninja where he's complied a chart that shows you the best mice for every hand size and grip.
It should work for just about any ambi mouse, ergo can be tricky if they have exaggerated comfort curves and a really large body but ergo mice like the Model D work great.
We got about the same hand size , and I've always used fingertip . Using a razer viper atm and I can't, for the life of me , find a good position for my fingers to sit at without straining my entire hand :C
Players should indeed find what best suits them, but for many players out there they haven't tried everything and may be missing out on a potentially better setup. Would argue that this grip is objectively 'optimal' as it utilizes the fingers/hand/wrist/arm more than other grips but there are always outliers who may find better performance with other techniques.
@@TheMeta yeah I agree I was just kinda adding that it’s not a bad thing if this isnt comfortable for someone and that if they play better with something else they should use it
Ehh your kinda wrong bro. If your willing the put the time in, this grip is the best because you get the benefits of fingertip but the anchor and arm aiming and stability. Its taken me over 400 hours of kovaaks and many mice to come to this conclusion and i just found the grip independently the day before yesterday so seeing the makers of an aim trainer agree with me gives me some confidence to say its the best.
With fingertip grip, the only points of contact on the mouse are the fingertips. Optimal grip points of contact are the fingertips and the knuckles of the thumb and pinky. (Depending on mouse shape and hand size, other knuckles or the back of the palm may also be in contact)
When you grip the mouse, do you place your side fingers (thumb, ring, pinky) first, or your index and middle fingers first? Doing one over the other results in a very different mouse feel and I'm not sure which is better
Interesting, well for me I plant the knuckle of the middle finger first, then fingertips of the index > middle > ring > pinky > thumb and then gripping the mouse with the thumb and pinky knuckles.
Question...I not sure if it’s just me but the Valorant sens on kovaaks feels pretty different compared to the actual game. My sens is correct, chose the right game conversion, and used the correct fov..Any help?
me too, when converting kovaak's sens to apex legend. on kovaak's my sens is 1.3 but in apex legends my sens 1.8. so i am start installing another aim trainer but have the same result. after using Sensitivity Matcher my actual apex sens is 1.28 but it still diffrent but better.
There are other factors than sensitivity that are affecting the overall feel of your aim between different games. For each game, you need to adjust your mouse sensitivity based on movement speed, fov, resolution etc. to make it feel perfect. Despite the same mouse sensitivity, the scenarios and settings in Kovaak are significantly different than in Valorant (or any other games) so that can contribute to this feeling your sensitivity is not correct. I would advise checking your in-game settings are exactly the same (keep in mind the fov settings may differ between games even if you set the same figures, check the FOV video on this Kovaak channel) and just keep practising with it. Do not worry about your score in Kovaak, just focus on your consistency.
