Merry Christmas everybody! Hope you’re all having the best of times here in the Holiday Season. Today, Christmas Day, the TimeGhost of History Past is flying back to 1758, where German astronomer Johann Palitzsch confirms Halley’s Comet and the predictions made by Edmond Halley from 76 years prior. Though this comet might have a lot more to do with Christmas than you might think. So - was it the Star of Bethlehem? It’s seems to unlikely for me, but, hey, you never know. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, Rune. *Before commenting, please read our rules:* STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks. AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates. HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban. RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban. PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban.
@@georgedoolittle9015 it's the Gregorian date - most German Kingdoms and Principalities had by 1758 changed to Gregorian anyway) - stay tuned for more about that ;-)
I have heard that an observatory was once able to rewind what the stars looked like all the way back to near the year zero and they actuality found that a few stars appeared to overlap and form one big star, so I think that that might have been the Star of Bethlehem. Regardless of whether it was this or something else, it is certainly interesting to try to figure out what it was that the Wise Men saw.
I heard another theory that states the star was the planet Jupiter when it was in the constellation Aries. www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/12/19/was_the_star_of_bethlehem_the_planet_jupiter.html
This was the first Christmas I ever witnessed. I am attending the University of Arizona and come from Japan. Very quiet here in the dorms as everyone has gone for the break.
Merry Christmas Indy and crew! Idea for future show: "Indy's Cooking in the trenches!" with the motto "Death from within!". It can focus on whatever creative and improvised recipes are recovered from soldier's diaries, journals and letters. You're welcome!
Our very existence places us at the mercy of such phenomena as Haileys Comet. That event is so powerful within human psyche, it proves that we have no other lever.
It could well be that to past observers, at certain latitudes, the comet did appear to "stand" over a number of places, depending on where the observer was. You could use the light of the comet and the direction of the comet as a general direction guide but not to find a specific spot on the surface of the planet. Every place you go to would appear to have the comet sitting over it.
Everything is possible in dating history once we focus on oral history and books written thousands of years ago....to counter or support that we have real Science for dating organic & inorganic matters...and Astronomy to reproduce the skies during that time...so I trust in the astronomical science on this one...Merry Christmas Indy, team and all TimeGhost followers.
The specific identity of the "star" has a lot of different interpretations. As I (imperfectly) understand it, this is mostly because at that time "star" referred to any heavenly body, which would include meteorites, comets, and planets. Different astronomical phenomena took place that "could" have been the star as Matthew described it, and which the Wise Men, as astrologers "could" have interpreted as heralding Christ's birth, but it's hard to pin down with certainty. Either way, fascinating video. Happy Holidays!
Indy: "So was Jesus born in 5 BC or 12 BC?" me: "The modern calendar sits on a throne of lies!" (i.e. Jesus wasn't born in 1 AD - the first year of our Lord)
The date of birth of Jesus Christ was calculated in VI century by Dionisius Exiguus. Now we know he made mistake. Story of calendar is quite fascinating. Before AC/BC time was described like "in n-th year of reign of x king" or "during consul x" in ancient Rome I guess. Or why do we have weeks/months/years at all? Merry Christmas to everyone.
@@ReformedSooner24 It's supposed to be the year of his birth, but that's based on nothing more than wild guessing, to be honest. And neither are the claims that it's wrong. We really have no clue when the man known as Yeshua ben Yosef was born.
I imagine a lot of people assume there was a year 0. When you realise that it goes from 1BC straight to 1AD, it makes sense that [n]00AD is in the [n]th century.
Merry Christmas to you and the crew! I think it’s a stretch to say that the comet was the star of Bethlehem. It guided the wise men to Jesus for quite some time, if you read a few verses ahead into the Gospel of Matthew. “.. and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.” Matthew chapter 2 verse 9
Comets are really interesting in archeology, because it's a solid way to date events or sync calenders. Because they were always connected to significant events, long before Christianity
Merry Christmas! I think the real Christmas miracle was the comet that shot out of Indy's elbow at the end of the episode! Maybe that comet went back in time and became Halley's comet?
Actually, there is strong proof that Halley pronounced his name like Hawley, which was the standard British pronunciation of the time. That makes perfect sense as a large room in which people meet is a "hall." Surnames had only come back into common use in England during the middle ages, so many had to do with locations or trades. If a man named William owned a large building where people could meet, he might be named William of the Hall, which could then evolve into Halley. It was also proposed the pronunciation was HAL-lee, as the someone in the Royal Astronomical Society actually wrote a song about Sir Edmond in which his name rhymes with periodiCALLY and origNALLY (incorrectly stressed for artistic license, no doubt). Of all the comets in the sky, There’s none like Comet Halley. We see it with the naked eye And periodically. The first to see it was not he, But still we call it Halley. The notion that it would return Was his originally. The idea of his name being pronounced HAY-lee is a very modern misconception from the research I was able to do. It did not become popular until Bill Haley named his group "His Comets" (not "The Comets," btw).
That's contentious - pronunciation before audio recording is very, very hard to research. What indicates that he might have pronounced it like we do is how he Edmund most often spelled his last name (yup, that too was not standardized). His own most used spelling was Hailey, which _could_ indicate that it should be province like Haylee (the ai being the ay and the ey being the ee).
I happen to like baloney, and the magically delicious kind is the best. Just ask any leprechaun. Merry Christmas to the Time Ghost team. Here's hoping for even greater success in the coming year. In the spirit of the season I offer this simple prayer: May the good Lord keep Mr. U Toob Scrooge and Dr. Google Grinch . . . as far away from tinkering with your analytics as possible. Amen.
*Cough* nitpick: "ye" as in "ye olde shoppe" is actually pronounced "the". It's an old practice to use "y" instead of "þ" based on the misunderstanding since they look almost the same in old english blackletter. It's an understandable mistake, as "ye" also is an old version of "you" (second person plural). (Also: It's romantic bologna, not a comet! Happy midwinter!)
Hey indy and crew! I hope you all are having a good christmas. I really appreciate all you have done. I started watching you in 2016 with the great war and have been watching you almost every week ever since. I cant afford to be a patreon, but still wanted to leave you my appreciation. I hope one day ill be able to support you in more than views, but until then, i hope you all keep it up. Thank you for years of your dedication to history, and i hope to see both this channel and ww2 grow in 2020.
Bit of a late wrench into the works. No self respecting shepherd would have his flock out on the Judean Hills in mid winter. Many think Jesus was born in the Spring, during lambing, when the shepherds would be watching for new lambs. The other time that may fit was the days before the fall, high holy days. After that would come the rainy season. Peace and Love all and stay safe.
That's not a comet , it's a rat in a spaceship pretending to be a comet as part of a complicated plot to take over the world! (little Total War Warhammer 2 reference).
I am certian that Palitzsch didn't see the comet, when people gathered to celebrate the brith of Christ, since this happens on Christmas eve and not on Christmas day in Germany.
unfortunately it wasn't haley's comet they saw. back in the 80's for goodness sake that silly astronomy show on PBS, with the original host jack Horkheimer had the explanation. three stars came together in a conjunction , passing close enough to create an eye catching event. it appeared when Ju[piter, the sign of the king, was in Leo which was the symbol for Judea. hence the star they 'followed' was an announcement 'king born in judea' which is why they went to Herod figuring he had had a son and they would get in on his good side.
The timelines are close enough to link up, would definitely be interesting. That said; God could’ve always used another way of guiding the wise men west, so it doesn’t have to be Haley’s Comet.
I've heard a theory that the "star" of Bethlehem was some other astrological phenomenon (IIRC, something along the lines of Jupiter appearing to touch the edge of the moon). The sort of thing that ancient astrologers would attribute vast symbolic meaning to, but that the average person wouldn't really get, so when the story was written down, it was simplified to just a special star.
The best supported date for Christ's birth is the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles in 2 BC. December 25th wasn't set as Christmas Day until Constantine forced the change during his reign. He worshiped Apollo and December 25th was Apollo's birthday. In the Julian calendar, this would have been the winter solstice. Accounts of Constantine's deathbed conversion to Christianity are now thought spurious. However, Halley's comet could have still been the comet the "wise men" had originally seen, it all depends on how long it took them to analyze what the comet meant, how long it took to prepare for a journey and how difficult it was to find Bethlehem. A ten year search is not out of the question.
The real Christmas star is visible every year as are the 3 wise men. Sirius (the brightest star in the sky) and Orion's belt. Around the Winter Solstice, Sirius would reach it's zenith at midnight, 180 degrees opposite, directly below your feet with the Earth between you the Sun is in a barn, positioned between Sagittarius and Capricorn the horse and the goat. The Winter Solstice was considered the death and rebirth of the Sun as it's the shortest day of the year and all days after are longer and warmer thus a new Sun is born. So to recap, on the day of the birth of the Sun it sits in a barn between a horse and a goat, and above him in the night sky is the brightest star and the 3 wise men pointing the way to it, and just a few degrees away you see the Pleiades representing the Angels. You see similar stories about the birth of Sun gods going back to ancient Egypt (Moses was an Egyptian Prince and is the traditional author of the Torah) and even further back.
Merry Christmas Indy and crew. I loved the recent Sabaton music video of T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom. You look very identical to him Indy. Keep up the great work with these channels and Sabaton and lets have an excellent new year.
If there are two independent observers, then there's some chance it was the same phenomenon, but we can't be sure. The discrepancy of dates might be just a mistake of either of them. Ancient people, both Romans and Jews believed in astrology, so there might be some coincidence in their astronomical observations, even if their astrological interpretation was different.
The comet is likely linked to Jesus, even if the year is “wrong”. Maybe there was a real person named Jesus who started the core practices of Christianity, but much of “his” story has been steeped in myth. So...maybe the comet DID appear in 12 BC, and maybe Jesus was born in 5 BC, and the events were just linked as the stories were retold. Also, for a more interesting astronomical twist, maybe a different comet appeared in 5 BC. That would be a bigger stretch to see two in such a short timeframe, but it would perhaps give a frame of reference to drive people to Bethlehem a few years later.
i saw it in '86 but it was a bit difficult to observe, too much light pollution, (and from wikipedia source "worse vewying in 2000 years") my father even drove us to the countryside to see it. Still, wont forget it! Happy holydays!
Hate to be pedantic but the comet in question is Halley's Comet pronounced Hal-le not Hail-ey. The honour of the pronunciation Hail-ey goes to musician Bill Haley who had an astronomical backing band called The Comets who rocked around the clock with him in 50's! Happy Christmas.
Actually that is very much contested. The majority comes down with our pronunciation. It is impossible to know the pronunciation for sure as it was never recorded. Moreover, pronunciation of names is notoriously irregular in general and was even more so at the time. In fact even spelling was not consistent for individuals, so much so that Edmund himself spelled his last name differently at different times, alternating between Haley, Halley Halle and Hailey. But here we have a clue that the Bill Haley version could be correct. Edmund most often used the latter spelling: Hailey, which could indicate that it should be pronounced _hay-lee._
You'd be wishing upon a meteor, not a meteorite. A meteor is the fiery streak in the sky, while a meteorite is the leftover material post impact. A meteoroid is the object before it reaches the Earth's atmosphere. Just sayin'.
@@nickvenuto9803 Meteoroids are generally clouds of dust and particles left behind by comets, whereas asteroids are generally larger rocky bodies orbiting the sun. My knowledge of the definitions gets a bit murky beyond that though, such as rogue asteroids, or interstellar bodies. Or if an asteroid or comet impacts the Earth, does it become a meteorite?
Why not? The dates are not exactly correct for Haley's Comet showing up, but I've always heard the date of Christ's birth is also up for debate. The comet would certainly be a reasonable explanation for the Star of Bethlehem.
@@TimeGhost So there are a number that are visible to the naked eye, yes. I was mainly commenting on the fact that if Haley's came in 12BC it's not unforeseeable for another comet to show itself 7+ years later...
@@aaronpowell7608 of course you are right about that - there is an endless amount of possible explanations... some even include that none of it happened (no magi, no child) or only the child, no star, no magi. But it's Christmas, so we'll play along...
Please don't ban me for asking this but what are Indy's thoughts on the Aztecs? I had a dream last night that you guys were doing a live Timeghost episode at my old primary school and I said that I found the Aztecs kind of interesting during the Q&A at the start which made Indy frothing at the mouth angry, he kicked me out banning me from watching the channel ever again and I had to be comforted by an 7ft tall DomitiusOfMassilia as I walked home.
Merry Christmas my fellow history nerds! I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm going to get Martin Gilbert's book about World War 2. I hope everyone else is doing well.
Maybe the Magi saw the comet in 12 bc, but took them 7 years to reach Bethleham. By the way, meteorites are never seen in the ski, meteors are. Also, you pronounced the astronomer as Halely, as in the rock 'n' roller Bill Haley and the Comets. The astronomer's name is pronounced Halley, like Halle Berry.
It is not pronounced that way - it is pronounced same as Haley, Bill also of the Comets (that the names are pronounced the same is also why William 'Bill' John Clifton Haley called his band 'The Comets') . And it is also the other way wound regarding meteors and meteorites. Meteors are very seldom seen in the sky. Most 'shooting stars' that you see are meteorites - in other words, parts of a meteor, or asteroid, or very small meteors that enter the atmosphere and burn form the frictional heat as they go through the increasingly dense gases of our planetary system, what we call air.
While it is true the Bill Haley did name the band the "Comets" because that was the American pop culture pronunciation of the name at the time, this does not prove that it is the correct pronunciation. To be fair, I can't really cite a source that proves that the Halle Berry pronunciation is correct, either, in fact, both might be wrong, it might be pronounced "Holly" (keeping with the spirit of the holliday). All of this is based on Wikipedia and a quick and dirty Google search. If anyone has anything more definitive, I'm open to hearing it. As for meteors: In space, they are meteoroids, when they enter the atmosphere, they are meteors, and when they land, they are metorites. The bright light you see in the sky usually happens during the meteor phase as it is burning in the atmosphere, so Mr. Nowicki is correct in that regard.
Since they wouldn't just jump on their camels and head riding off into the desert, confident there will be a motel 6 along the way and easy camel care, that is logical.
@@big8dog887 well we stand beautifully corrected on the meteorites - thank you for that. As for the name, it is impossible to know for certain how Edmund pronounced his last name - today, it is definitely most often pronounced like Bill Haley. But there's a hint that this is also the way the astronomer himself would have said it. The contemporary spelling of the name varied, even by Edmund himself - but the most frequent spelling he used himself was Hailey and that is consistent with the pronunciation we use today.
It took them much less than 7 years to reach Bethlehem. According to the Gospel of Matthew chapter 2 verse 16, Herod orders all boys 2 Years and under to be killed, when he realizes the Magi/wise men did not return to him, inferring it takes less than 1 year to travel there.
The orbital time of Hale Bopp has not been determined exactly, but is at least 2,520 years - meaning that it passed earth more than half a millennia before AD1, to return only in 1997.
