Love all of those systems. One that recently caught my eye is Outcast Silver Raiders and The Black Sword Hack. Lesser known games but still awesome. You of course know I love Shadowdark and Knave though. Totally backed Dolmenwood too 🍻
Hyperborea and Outcast Silver Raiders! Though Dolmenwood over the years has been shaping up to be tremendous, too. Looking forward to finally getting my hands on the final product.
@@PaladinProse Outcast Silver Raiders has the very best introduction and explanation of "how to run a game, specifically an OSR game" at the beginning of its Referee's Guide. Some real great advice that covers a wide variety of topics.
Sensei noticed me! 👁️👄👁️ Thank you so much, sir. You (and Deathbringer) or two of my biggest inspirations on the platform. Your support means the world to me. 🤘
Ah professor Dungeon Master is here. I doubt you will care about this as I am just one person but I have wanted to express this criticism to you for a while. I used to be subscribed to your channel and watch your content regularly then you made a video where you claimed that BECMI and 5E are equally as lethal by minimally theory crafting Morgan Ironwolf in both systems. I find that ridiculous that in order to make that claim you had to ignore Fighting Styles and Second wind not to mention the fact that 1st level 5E fighters get their full Hit dice at level one, while BECMI fighters roll for HP. You call yourself Professor Dungeon Master yet you did not do the research or even prove your theory by running the combat of Morgan Ironwolf vs a hobgoblin in both systems in the video. I can't respect your thoughts and opinions if you're going to publish a video like that.
I’m with you, OSR is so much more than the games, it’s a community and a great place to get creative. If you are not aware, last year a small group of creators started “OSR October” - though in typical OSR fashion, some call it “OSoctober” much of what happens is on the podcast world, but it would be cool to have more creators involved. If you are interested, Let me know and I can point you in the right direction - or you can do your own thing, it’s the OSR after all 😊
Woah! I love your channel man 🥲 it's an honor to have you here. And yes, I'd love to hear more, that sounds amazing! Feel free to shoot me an email, would love to chat with ya
I am in a Basic Fantasy group. You can't beat the price. As I watched this video, I had the Cairn book open on my desk for a first time read. Quite a coincidence.
The OSR/Indie wave has inspired me to really go after my own game design. Even if my own system doesn’t turn out like I’m envisioning, I know that there is a lot of genius coming out of the indie scene, and I’ll always have something good to play. Now, back to work. I just noticed some problems with my basic resolution mechanic and a couple of systems in the game.
Just find something that is closest, and homebrew that which you want to change. Like Five Torches Deep, but also like karma dice and hero dice from EZD6, add it. Or start with 5e Essentials rules and add what you like. Like the crazy roll to hit and mishap tables of DCC or Shadow Dark, steal it. It isnt hard to do.
Thanks I started with Shadowdark, and its super easy to pick up. I was able to learn how it works in about 10 minutes. My only other exposure to games like this were Wargames.@@PaladinProse
The OSR subreddit was very friendly when I was looking for an idea of what game to start my osr journey with. Sand even friendly when I was asking dumb questions. For the most part.
I'm a huge Basic Fantasy rpg fan! Sure it's not as flashy as OSE (a great game as well), but I enjoy the hackable system and of course it's generosity.
Hyperborea 3E Mentioned is an absolute W. Anyway, my favorite OSR systems, right now, have to be the holy (or unholy) trinity of Swords & Wizardry Complete, Hyperborea 3e, and Mork Borg. They all scratch a different and more particular itch than any other game I've played, though that's not to say that I don't love me some OSE as well!
One thing he left out, is that most OSR games have a vastly lower cost to entry than 5e. Many times a single book provides everything required to do everything (PHB+DMG+MM).
@JMcMillen I know I'm late to the conversation, but to add on, most OSR and indie publishers will also provide you with the pdf in addition to the print. Makes it much easier to get into and read in spare time when you don't always have your books with you.
I'm pretty new to the OSR, but I always felt like if you can play a game and it's backwards compatible with and to the original 1975 ODnD, its OSR. Its pretty simple how i see it at least lmao Great vid btw!!!
Every time I try to go to any other game I keep wishing I was running something OSR. Something about having entire toolboxes for sandbox adventures and extreme intercompatibility just speaks to me. Worlds Without Number is my OSR system of choice and I love its dying earth setting as well as the gargantuan toolbox it gives me in its core and expansion book. To me, OSR isn't dwarf-as-class or descending AC, it's all about being able to rapidly generate usable adventure content, about prewritten adventures that are mechanically compatible with very little conversion work, and about making stories at the table rather than during prep. Also, love the Etrian Odyssey music in the background. Somehow always a good vibe for OSR.
Hehe nice ear! I love Etrian Odyssey. And hey man, I know what you mean. You can totally add a lot of OSR-inspired philosophy into your games no matter what system. But yeah, the compatibility and modularity between OSR systems is hard to beat and easily my favorite part about the scene, too!
I'm with you man. Like Paladin said, it's as much a mentally/philosophy as it is any specific features. I've hacked together my own Notion with tables from ShadowDark, Knave, Pathfinder, etc. What keeps me coming back is the ability to always be around to that toolkit.
Did I really just click off of listening to Etrian Odyssey music just to find a video recommended by Bandit's Keep with Etrian Odyssey music in the background? For a moment, my brain sort of wondered if I had actually clicked your video at all.
Great video! You did a great synopsis of OSR in 5 minutes. And OSR is growing -- OSR is going from OS Renaissance to OS Revolution. Tons of great OSR games out there and it's not like you're considered weird anymore if you play OSR games - it is definitely becoming more mainstream. 🙂
Great video. I've recently gotten into Shadowdark which is just spectacular and so easy to run. I picked up Mork Borg a few months ago but have yet to run a game, the design and quality is just beautiful.
One of the best things about many OSR games is how easily you can run an adventure written for one OSR game system while using a completely different OSR game system. Most share so much in common it's really not hard to convert any good material over to the flavor of OSR you prefer.
Im all about the rules lite . Easy math, more roleplay and story telling right now. THANKS TO THE OSR. Games are much more enjoyable from a GM and Player perspective
Honestly the osr comunity is just so cool sometimes I just read rules just for relaxing like I'm most likely not gonna run all of them but it's so cool having so many options. Also great video keep it going and if possible could you please talk more in depth about single osr system i think it would interesting
While Castles and Crusades isn't OSR mechanic , it is very first edition in character class style and perhaps should be considered OSR. Gaey Gygax once said that, if he had written the 3rd edition for D&D, he would have basically made C&C.
I’m 49. Came into gaming in 1986 We guys LOVE ANYONE who wish to explore this type of gaming! Our arms are wide open! Many forums, etc exist for all of us to learn from one another! 🙂
Loved this video! Choosing a favorite OSR game is like choosing a favorite child. They each bring unique aspects that you love, but it is hard to put a finger on the “best”… which is perhaps why my shelves are overflowing. Lol
Love OSR and PBTA, I am more of a PBTA guy, but the OSR guys are great, and I support their playstyle wholeheartedly. They focus on the spirit of the game. Great video!
Great explainer! Definitely gonna pass this one to OSR-curious friends. Is there a good way to get in touch with you about potential OSR game coverage on the channel?
While a majority of OSR games are related in some form to one of the Pre 3.X versions of D&D, OSR also includes other non-D&D Games that have been around just as long including Traveller, Gamma World, to name a couple. Even TSR's Marvel Super Heroes (which is forbidden to be sold online by WotC because of copyright issues) has FASERIP clones that I would consider falling under OSR. Honestly though, I thought this was going to be another OSR is dead vid and was pleasantly surprised at your take and enjoyed the vid. Personally I fall under the Basic Fantasy camp though I have a lot of my own self-published Home Brewed rules for the game.
Yeah, I was thinking about mentioning Traveler and some other games but there's only so much I can cover in 5 minutes hehe. The classic Marvel Super Heroes game has always interested me. Would love to look into it sometime. Cheers, man!
Basically, the whole thing is about nabbing rules from here, there, and everywhere! That's how you can very easily come up with your own ruleset. In fact, Shadowdark basically takes a lot of the best already established rules from OSR and puts them all in an easy-to-use book.
This is mostly accurate as an observation of what is going on, but misses some elements that are important to me. That's okay, but I'm going to add my own thoughts. To me OSR is about seeing WHY the old rules worked and either keeping those rules, or keeping the same effect, even if you change the rules. Threat of death, character development through play emphasized over builds made out of the rule book, player skills emphasized over character sheet reading skills, fewer choices at character creation make a better game at the table. You did get me good with this video, though. I am writing my own OSR system now, so you know what you're talking about.
Thank you for the video, but unfortunately it made me even more confused... I have heard the term OSR being used for retro-clones; for any games based on basic mechanics of D&D, besides 5e clones created for copyright reasons and besides Pathfinder for some reason (I have seen people insisting that ICRPG is OSR, while I guess the author himself claimed that it wasn't); and for any ttrpg played "the old way" (thing like simplicity, randomly generated disposable characters, embracing some problematic aspects and so on) with no regards to D&D or to any particular system for that matter (it's how this term is used in my local community). These are three very different groups, and it's kinda confusing that I never know which one is meant in every particular case.
Yeah man, that is the crux of it, and why I decided to make this video. At the end of the day, the OSR started out as a small movement of bloggers writing about how they were bringing back the "old school" style of play to their tables. As the years have gone on, the term has been appropriated by the community as a kind of buzzword, catch-all term and no one agrees on what makes OSR OSR. "The truth is that no one really knows, just don't tell the grognards I let you in on that little secret." As long as you're having fun, that's all that matters my dude!
One thing I may need to try using is that weapons vs armor adjustment table from 1st ed. Makes the weapons and armor have distinct purposes based on interactions
I've spent so much money on OSR books and it's still less than I've spent on the 5e stuff I'll never use again. Mork Borg is the one that tickles my fancy the most, through.
@@PaladinProse The visuals are what sold me initially, but after reading through it, I got another couple dozen printed supplements for it. Supporting indie creators is the only way to cut into megacorp profits and maybe force them to be less shitty. That or a good ole fashioned revolution, but one is more likely and more practical than the other.
My personal favorite OSR system right now is OSE. I have played 5e for a year and i just cant get back into it. OSE’s ruleset is simple, easy to master. Just started to get a good demo of hackmaster 5e as well.
Even though I think most of the OSR is just repeated drek of retroclone after retroclone of basic 40 year old game design there are some that actually are different enough to be worth looking at. Thats Hyperborea, ACKS II, any Kevin Crawford rpg and Hackmaster.
Because you need to do your homework to know the basics about a subject. It's very hard to do that when you're spending your time reviewing Mork Borg and reducing lotfp as being just an edgy b/x clone.
IMO, OSR is a very specific term and a lot of things that claim to be actually aren't. IMO, OSR is specifically Emulating or directly returning to older editions of D&D as accurately as possible. a lot of stuff that claims to be OSR is not, but its still under the wider branch of Oldschool Gaming. Its just the not the very specific niche goal of trying to go back to AD&D or Basic D&D or LBB. P.S. OSR can be "punk" but if anything its very staunchly traditionalist.
The OSR's biggest boon to the community, I think, is that shock to the system that you can truly make a game your own. When I grew up playing 3.5, 4e, and Pathfinder 1e, I always accepted everything n the book as coming from words on high, people who know better than me about what they're doing, and everything I could fathom in an RPG would start with that as a base. And back then, when I was in high school, maybe that was true! But getting into RPGs now, it's about the freedom, the customization, the ability to go off book and still right the train. In OSR, you are encouraged to brave the wilderness and make your own system with as few rules as possible to get you onto the table and playing, or even just embrace that old ruleset that people think is busted but might just have some great ideas. It's about taking bits and pieces to make a new whole. It's so freeing to have just a few pages of rules rather than a few _books_ of rules. It makes me realize just how easy it is to find your own way and do your own thing and not have to dance at the whims of the big companies. It's great, even just for that.
Basic Fantasy if 30 bucks is your limit, Shadowdark if you want the best and here take my money. I have both. There are a lot of choices in the middle. Most are ok. Anything past 1st edition was more about selling you books than about making the game better. Given a choice of 80 bucks for Shadowdark or every book in original release form from 2nd to 5th edition, I just laugh knowing I'd merely sell all the 2nd through 5th and buy a lot of copies of Shadowdark and have fun giving some away to friends. 2nd through 5th is for fools who are easily parted from their cash.
The thing I hate about osr is that ttrpgs have to be done their way or not at all. It's not a system, it's not a philosophy, it's an attitude, a bad attitude
I think Basic Fantasy would be more successful if we charged more and did less. At present, we're like that accommodating love interest that still secretly dreams you'll marry us despite the many years of neglect and your endless drunken philandering. And frankly you're getting a big gut and we wish you'd shower more and you really weren't that good looking to start with, but... whassat? WHAT? YES! YES!! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!! (wakes up) Oh, man... :(
@@PaladinProse Thank you! I liked the video a lot. We're actually a pretty good-humoured bunch and we're happy for people to use our materials regardless of which RPG they prefer! Stay tuned for two brand new titles coming to print soon, plus some expanded and revised re-releases under CC-BY-SA.
OSR - I still don't get it. I was around in the early 80s and I don't see what all this fuzz about OSR is all about. "In the old days gold meant experience!". Materialism at its best. Yeah, I really loved it when Aragorn and Gimli plundered the treasures in Moria... oh wait, didn't happen. "Characters died!" I hated characters to die because of some stupid chance. "Orcs were evil" - okay. I subscribe to that. Love myself monster means monster means free to kill them games. I'm with you on that. There are no good orcs or goblins or kobolds in in my games you don't get to play any monsters. They're there to be killed - or eat little children, do things with your pet dog and create half orcs unless you kill them all first. My favourite OSR system? Rolemaster minus the magic. The less magic, the better. Sounds like "Adventures in Middle-Earth for 5e" to me... maybe OS Games really sucked? No, I remember the red box and the blue box fondly. Many, many good memories. Until I found MERP. Never looked back to the old D&D except to be thankful I had it at that time. So glad that things have moved on (except "fricking orcs are civilized too" whining these days).
So, C&C is a modern RPG like I've told numerous people. It CAPTURES the flavor of TSR's D&D with MODERN game mechanics. D&D 5th "borrowed" mechanics from it.
@@PaladinProse I agree it has many nostalgic fans. I just feel it’s the edition where rules bloat set in, with all the splat books. Thanks for the video!
Old school reinessance is correct. I forget which youtube did the deep dive but the founders never used "revival". Maybe Bandit's keep? Reinessence is "too european"... for some people. Pretty francophobic if you ask me..
I'm still having trouble understanding the point of OSR. Is it JUST nostalgia? It sounds an awful lot like throwing away decades worth of learned lessons about game design. Or is this like a reaction against the increasingly narrative style of modern RPGs?
Most people in the 'osr' space are too young to be motivated by nostalgia. They played 5th Edition D&D and found it unenjoyable. Beyond that, it is a complicated topic. I would caution you against assuming that newer is better. Corporations capture brand names all the time, and their products are often NOT based on any sound principles of game design. We see the same thing in video games where AAA games are often unimpressive failures.
Genuinely there are two camps, in my brief experience. One is more nostalgic, opting for the same rules, art, style and philosophy all in a handful of books, rather than the dozens for AD&D or D&DB. These are your DCCs, your OSEs, Basic Fantasy Roleplay, etc. In the other camp, opting towards Mork Borg and Shadowdark and Cairn are the folks who follow the OSR in philosophy and general style, but do opt for simplified/streamlined rules. In the last year following the OGL stuff with 5e, I've seen an explosion of these types of games.
I would dispute "throwing away decades worth of learned lessons about game design." It first assumes that the OSR community ignores developments in other RPGs, which isn't true as many systems, including one of the first four, Basic Fantasy RPG, adopted ascending armor class. The advantage and disadvantage mechanic from 5e is a common house rule in the community as well. Second, it assumes that the "learned lessons" were good lessons to learn. Single family homes and running freeways through our cities was the accepted ideal in urban planning from the 50s onwards, but the past couple of decades have had us learning that both of those were awful mistakes, that are hollowing out our cities. Loading up character sheets with "action buttons" (defined skills) and various combat feats was a step in the wrong direction if your gameplay style is more oriented to exploration and creative problem solving. The OSR playstyle is more focused on exploration and puzzle solving than the combat heavy orientation of modern D&D. It prefers open worlds and player agency over narrative. It's more interested in the gameworld than in one players' singular character. Characters die but the world goes on. Basically, it is more "gamist" and "simulationalist" (at least from the standpoint of the game world not hinging on the PCs contributions) than the more "narrativist" leanings of modern D&D. (Excuse the Forge terminology. It's the easiest shorthand I know of to refer to what I mean.)
It is throwing away the garbage that is 5th Edition (and 4th edition). It is throwing away the 4 hour combat sessions (with everyone either tuned out on their phones or staring at their rulebooks thumbing through their 2700 pages of "core and optional rulebooks"), nerfed encounters so the characters ALWAYS win, instant and damn near never ending healing, and every other bit of the game designed for the participation trophy generation.
You're not only misunderstanding and ignorant of the OSR, but TTRPGs as a whole. If this wasn't RU-vid I'd address the things you bring up, but I'm not gonna write an essay in the comments.
