I've seen suggestions that the scripted movement is necessary to synchronize the gate's closing animation with the payload passing through, but there are maps that disprove this. For example, the gates on Junkertown close once the payload passes through without relying on any scripted movement. I should have included this in the voiceover 🗿
This is true, but probably an oversight based on older maps, since Junkertown is a 'newer' map. The new OW2 maps doing this is completely beyond me though since the doors don't close...
The voiceover probably would have helped, but it's not your fault people comment garbage like that without even checking, let alone understanding the engine :/
The Eichenwalde closing animation does not really make sense if it can be delayed. Like why would the gate collapse a minute after the door was broken? The one on Dorado however does not really make sense. Why would that door have to close immideately? You'd think it could stay open for a while, and then close once the payload is through.
@@Eknoma Yes, but it also conveniently waits for the cart to get through as it is so its not massively farfetched. I imagine the dorado door closed because without it there's a major sight-line right though the main entrance into that part of the map, its required for cover.
Good point. Thought the same. My idea why they only fixed the Route 66 thing is that the bug took to much effort to properly fix. Before the launch some dev did fix it for one map, but after the game launch they didn't find the time to fix an others. Maybe at some point, fixing them was even too hard, because it might affect other behaviour, messing up competitive or some backend game tracking which would make stats harder.
I've noticed this many times but don't consider it a bug. It is consistent. If you kill the enemy team just after they arrive at the Dorado gate, the spot AFTER the gate closes is instantly marked. If they can't get back to move it more and the round ends, the spot stays there. Same for you in round 2. If the enemy kills YOU in the same spot, your progress is marked in the exact same spot on the far side of the gate. If you can't get back to move it more before the round ends, it's a draw. Might look a little weird because the enemy killed you before the cart reaches the spot marked on the ground... but the cart has no choice but to move there.
Sometimes us devs think we fixed a bug because we run through the specific scenario that was reported and the bug doesn't show up anymore, ignoring abother bug with similar results is still in the code. The QA team is supposed to test every build in deep, but if the release cycle is too short or the project is too big it's impossible to go over every single scenario.
Also it is cool on how the second check point on Junkertown the gate will stay open until the payload goes through. I think it is because it’s newer than the two maps mentioned in the video.
It's unrelated to how new it is. Junkertown has a massive bend that blocks sightlines, as well as stairs up to the high ground, so there is no need to close the door. This is also why the door on Route 66 doesn't close. It did close at one point during development, but due to the attacker's spawn location and the shack creating a sharp bend right before choke it didn't need to close, and so they scrapped it. This is why the payload movement was classified as a "bugfix", because they had forgotten to remove the scripted movement trigger when they made the doors stay open, not because the trigger was never meant to be there.
the overwatch 2 scripted distance makes more sense why OWL teams will just leave the payload, i just thought they'd leave someone there but this explains it
Why are Dorado and Eichenwalde not bugs? The same reason they removed the option to change D.va's ammo in custom game in like 2017 and never bothered to fix it yet.
"we may never know why Eichenwald or Dorado payloads auto move after the checkpoint" that would most likely be due to the fact that the doors close behind the payload, Eichenwald has the rubble falling counting as a door closing to give attackers cover when entering the next segment of the map. An easy fix would be for the game to check the position of the payload and if it is withing X meters of the checkpoint it adds a small amount of distance that the next attacking team needs to cover after the checkpoint so the game doesn't have the capture point of the cart right on the end of the checkpoint scripted track segment, it isn't the most elegant fix but I think it would work. Edit: I just read the pinned comment about Junkertown, now I don't know what to think, I guess since the Junkertown gates might have a script that says once past point X close gates and the Devs are too lazy to change the others...?
Yes, we may never know... what the devs specifically stated. /s The rubble was added to cut sightlines between the choke and attacker spawn. The reason they didn't take the absolute room temp IQ plan of making the rubble fall only after attackers push choke is because there would be no point. "Let's just let the attackers out of spawn", "Yeah, but that's too easy", "Okay, but what if we only let them push out of spawn, AFTER they've pushed out of spawn!" "Brilliant!" This was one of the least informed videos I've watched in a REALLY long time, everything about these doors is just basic FPS level design, it was never a mystery. For Junkertown, as well as Route 66 btw, it's legit just that an L bend does the same job of breaking sniper sightlines and so a door doesn't have to. The Route 66 "bug" is just that the doors used to close, but it was removed because it was unnecessary and the devs forgot to remove the cart's movement trigger. It's a 'bug' because they were cleaning up a detail they'd missed, not because the cart movement was never intended to happen.
well, eichenwalde you see that rocks fall after the payload moved trough the gate, if the payload wouldnt automaticly move trough te gate the rocks would fall to early
this is very interesting. i wonder if they removed the route 66 one and not the others because of spawn points maybe? route 66 the spawn is right there but on the others there is a big area before the payload.
No, it's intentional. Dorado's payload moves automatically because they scripted it to, and the doors close off specifically to close sightlines between the choke and attacker spawn. Same as Eichenwald, a place where the closing and automatic movement actions were ADDED, with that express purpose. The devs have talked in length about this, specifically in regards to Eichenwald, and this video was just highly uninformed. Worth noting, the removal of Route 66's movement was called a bug for entirely unrelated reasons to the content of this video as well. In development the doors did close, but when they changed the doors to stay open they forgot to remove the payload movement trigger. It's a bug because they missed the detail when making a change to the map, not because it just magically moved on it's own without their intention.
Bro, I am so happy that after 6 years, someone actually started to talk about the video game mechanics. If you didn't play old overwatch and looked into it yourself then you wouldn't know anything about this stuff
We were in the trenches in the old days trying to figure out mechanics and data lmao, I remember spending a lot of time in custom servers with friends trying to figure out the actual damage per bullet from various characters and what kinds of damage gave Mercy ult charge for boosting them. Blizzard could’ve done a lot for the game if they’d been more public about the exact mechanics and numbers of the game - a big part of why I’m hesitant to get back into it is that it’s hard to get caught back up to where all the patches have left all the characters beyond piecing it together from wikis.
@@Joe_Payne I think what Myseglis means, is the possible automatically triggered Overtime. If everyone's dead on the attacking team but the payload moves during overtime without being pushed, the attackers can possibly regroup during those ~20 seconds.
@@chiichen5322 Yep, exactly what I meant, I feel like the payload pushing itself for that long will allow attackers to regroup in OT to touch the payload again even though the entire team died.
Although this is a fair point, the way this actually comes up in high level play in my experience is just that players know to not bother trying to contest the playload at certain points on the map. The very rare circumstance you mention requires the attackers on the previous side to have lost the playload during that sequence *and the extra overtime*. Ie, they basically need to die right when the scripting sequence hits, and they need to all die at once. That's pretty rare! Should be fixed ofc, but after years of playing OW, I've never seen this bug
It's not really a bug, and it doesn't really affect the competition. It's just some mild visual inconsistency. The thing is, both teams get that scripted sequence, and for both teams the point isn't playable during it, so there's no unfairness. If you make it to the checkpoint, you automatically get that extra 6m. If the cart instantly teleported those 6m instead, nobody would complain, despite being functionally the same.
So what would really fix the problem would be if they added another 6 meters onto the payload track. That way, it isn't a question of "are there any attackers on the cart after the scripted movement" but instead becomes "can the attackers push the cart the remaining 6 meters after the scripted movement." Would make things look... A lot less stupid.
Should just be determined by best out of 4. if there's a tie make it by best time. if both are tied by defends only make the tie breaker be by who pushed the payload the furthest on attack.
I really like the longer scripted movements in overwatch 2 because it gives players more time to realize they need to back up since they can’t contest the payload anyway
I imagine the reason why these scripted movement scenes exist and aren't considered a bug is because after the payload moves forward a certain amount the gates behind them close and it's easier to have the payload automatically move past these points then to have it stop midway and force the gates to stay open. Although, the same thing happens in Route 66 so I'm not sure why that one in particular was considered a bug.
@@godsturf8210 I'm pretty sure they don't close until the payload moves through, it's just weird that this one instance isn't scripted when all of the others are.
There is no real reason for this. If u want to make this fair, create second script point on route. Like it doesn't count for checkpoints so it doesn't count in score. But it cut down route till this coordinates and launches needed animation once reached. Worst thing they forced to do is split animations on halfs(open/close; break gates/crash entrance). I would say that it's evening of work. IMHO it's not harder than cut footage for youtubers( this can do even retards( I mean look on some of YT makers))
The payload on Route 66 change was a bug because, at one point in development, the doors did close. The payload movement was left over from that change on accident. The reason Junkertown and R66 don't close but Eichenwald and Dorado do is a result of sightlines. Eichenwald had an issue on release (can't remember if it was full game or just PTR) where snipers could shoot at spawn from the choke with a ton of cover due to the downwards slope. The devs added the rubble to counter these sightlines, and the payload movement so it wouldn't clip through the rubble. The rubble has to fall as soon as you capture because there would be no point to it otherwise. What good is rubble letting you get out of spawn, if it only falls down to help you after you've pushed past where you actually need it? Dorado has a similar issue, with near direct sightlines to attacker spawn on 3rd point. Junkertown and R66 fix this in another way, though. They both have harsh L turns right after the choke which cuts sniper sightlines more naturally, as well as much more direct high ground access for flankers to make use of.
I’d guess it had to do with intentional map design instead of a bug. The devs want those sections to be closed, whereas they’re fine with the non-scripted points being open until the payload is pushed. This would explain why it was a bug on r66 but not dorado. They want the dorado door closed for some reason so they auto script it. Or on eich they want the crumbling door animation to trigger so it’s auto scripted (this makes some sense bc of the cover the crumbled door provides to the attacking team).
i agree with this reasoning of it is easier to have the movement script but is it better for a competitive game where that script can ruin a lot of games for people in comp and even regular play but that's just my thought also nice comment Damian Lego
Once, when I was playing Rain on a defenders team, I snuck behind the payload with enemy team contesting it right before is was to pass the gate. I shattered enemies at the payload and was instantly killed by rest of the team. But thanks to the scripted movement, payload C9'ed itself leaving enemies previously contesting it behind.
This is especially going to be a problem in Push maps after making a comeback in overtime. The speed the robot moves when it's not pushing the barrier, it's almost the same as the player, I could barely keep up. I can imagine this exact scenario when you shatter or grav the whole enemy team from the side without contesting the robot, it just leaves you xD
@@X1erra Not really an issue, because win \ loss in push is determined by furthest distance, not current robot position. If you stop touching the robot for any reason then your current push has ended (and you can still get graved off point in any other mode anyways.)
You are easily one of my new favorite RU-vidrs. I like this technical kind of talk, but could only listen to it if it was about something else I loved. Hope you get some good content out of OW 2 when it releases.
Nice catch. But I don't understand how the first round on XQC game (or the other examples) could progress LESS than what it's the minumum scripted, resulting in their team to loose at the next round..
the bitrate in the xQc clip is bad, but both teams push to 28.92m. it's possible that older versions of the game used a greater-than-or-equal-to comparison (ATTACKERS >= DEFENDERS) to determine if the attacking team should win, rather than a greater-than comparison (ATTACKERS > DEFENDERS). this is something I would have explored in the video, but we don't have access to old versions of OW
@@Marblr So in the current live service, we should find no longer possible such a weird happening, both in Eichenwalde and Dorado? That'd be a good news to me.
I mean, if the capture happens during the scripted sequence, it means current attackers got to the endpoint of the scripted animation in less time then the opponent. that is equivalent to the cap being on the trigger point of the script, but on a delay. As long as the cap is registering correctly, it doesn't break balance, just becomes a novelty deciding criterium, right?
I don’t necessarily think that this is a problem, the scripted movement pushing the payload into the victory area may FEEL undeserved and bad but in the end it’s perfectly fair because in competitive both teams will have access to the scripted movement. If a team wins via scripted movement then that means that the last team got it too, they both got the movement and technically both benefit from it. From how you talked about it I think it seems like the issue where the movement would push the payload beyond the checkpoint and make it impossible to win the game was patched, and that’s good cause that’s a genuine problem, but yeah I don’t think the forced movement is a bad thing
@@mineinmonkey9787 They didn't "fix" it on Route 66, the reason they called it a bug is entirely unrelated to the content of this video. Early in development the doors DID close. When they changed the doors to stay open, they forgot to remove the scripted movement, hence why when they fixed that missed detail they called it a bug. The doors closing and the automated movement on Dorado or Eichenwald are INTENTIONAL, I can't stress that enough. They even ADDED it to Eichenwald, with the express purpose of closing off sightlines between the choke and attacker spawn. Notice that Route 66 and Junkertown both have an L bend right at the choke for this same purpose, to break sight between spawn and choke, but Eichenwald and Dorado don't if you remove the doors. The devs have talked at length about this, the fact yall're even talking about it like it's a bug is braindead AF.
i still cant grasp how the team who starts on attack could finish with the payload ahead of the the finish line of scripted movement, shouldnt scripted forward movement always end on the same meter count every time leading to a draw if contested at the end? im so confused, does anyone know?
I believe that in some maps the payload is forced to move through the gate is when there's a long sightline from defenders place, because if it stops in the middle of the gate keeping it open it will create a new choke point and give the defenders an advantage as long as it remains there allowing snipers to spawn kill attackers
Why you ask? It's because blizzard is a multi cent company that will happily monetize the crap out of their games. Yet do little in terms of forethought and game design. Which causes more issues than it solves every single time they do.
I don't play overwatch because everytime I play it, people just curse at me bcs I do'nt know how to play, wich is fair because I've played like 2 or 3 times MAX, but still it's annoying asf so I install it, play a game, getting insulted and all, leaving bcs this game is toxic, uninstall the game bcs of that, and some month later, I say "hey I should play that I forgot why I uninstalled it ?" launch it, play a game and when getting insulted "yeah that was why.." and uninstall it again etc...
it seems like the problem isn't the scripted movement, but rather that the game treats *matching* the previous round's distance the same as exceeding it. If one team got past the gates but no further, and the other team reaches the exact same spot but no further, the match should end in a tie. The condition for victory should require at least slightly exceeding the previous team. This is a problem in all competitive payload maps and QP push maps. It's just unlikely to come up outside of scripted movement.
3:20 not the point but holy shit this man is the reason ow gets a bad rep. Possibly the most annoying person in the world and the kind who always blames his team or the game
Yo man you’re the goat!!! I love the technical nature of your videos, it’s soo good and refreshing rather than saying what you think the cause may be. You dedicate time to scripting in the workshop, finding map origins and stuff like that. I appreciate you deeply for that lets get you to 1 mil xD you got this
i believe they may have fixed this in overwatch 2 after the controversial match result on OWL on eichenwalde! the lack of consistency is kinda crazy though
so the cap area for the payload is exactly the same that the other team left it at while attacking? i always assumed that you had to push just one tiny bit further to actually win, because that would prevent something like this from happening, but i guess it would be weird to measure because whats the unit youd go with? meters? cms? pixels? stuff like that shouldnt be happening though, its just based on luck whether you get attack second (and inevitably win in such a case) or win by skill, teamplay and so on
I've seen some of your content, and you remind me of Shounic who does TF2 videos about gameplay, such as bugs, exploits, and overall code. Keep it up, very interesting stuff!
Went into this video thinking it was going to be similar to an edge case in Team Fortress 2 where the payload can be capped while contested because an attacker touching the cart applies an unstoppable acceleration force that can sometimes be just enough to inch the payload past the checkpoint. Glad to see that's not the case for OW at least.
While Eichenwald has the whole breaking down the door segment and small bit of rubble to create a small wall, that is still at a checkpoint, Dorado's scripted segment does not occur at a checkpoint, it is a brief ways into the third and final portion of the payload route, and I wonder if this has something to do with the scripted sequence behaving differently. More importantly, the fact that a team can push the payload beyond the distance set by the first team during a scripted sequence even when contested must mean that in the first round, the round had ended while the payload was still in motion, meaning that someone still has to be there to "escort" the payload during one of those sequences at the end of the round or during overtime, else the distance will be cut short before the full scripted segment is finished.
The question isn't why Route 66 classed as a bug for its scripted movement, the better question is why is there even scripted movement for check points in the 1st or why doesn't the game make sure a team cannot finish in the scripted movement area? I understand scripted movement for hybrid but for normal payload nah
It's to close off sightlines. It was even added to Eichenwald after it was tested by the players. Without the doors closing the defenders can see attacker spawn from choke, and without the automatic movement the cart would clip through the door/rubble. Of course you could always take the room temp IQ approach of not closing the sightlines until after the choke has been pushed, but what would be the purpose of letting the attackers out of spawn only AFTER they've managed to, ya know, push the F out of spawn? Route 66 movement was a bug because the doors did close at one point in development, and they just forgot to remove the scripted movement. The rest are game balancing. It's that simple.
I still don't really get how the enemy team in the xqc clip escorted the payload further than 28.92 meters when xqc jumped on the payload while it was moving in it's scripted scene... Shouldn't it only move until 28.92 meters then - and end in a draw once the attackers have left the payload?
For the same logic, if the payload follows the script and cannot be stopped before the animation ends, xqc should have drawn that game. The payload stopped right after the gate and it was the point where xqc's team pushed it on attack, the same logic applies to the xqc's defending team, if the payload reached that specific point the outcome would have been a draw. Otherwise that should have been a last fight while stalling the cart to declare the winning team..
It's strange. Why not just script the gate closing or the rubble falling after the payload reaches a certain distance after the scripted gate-opening or gate-smashing? We've already established that it takes ten seconds for the payload to start moving backwards without attackers pushing it, so even if the payload gets pushed exactly that distance and everyone gets wiped out with a Dva nuke, that's still more than enough time for the game to play out the animation and establish a new minimum distance
All I can say is that if the attackers the first round are guaranteed that amount of distance just for getting the CP, and that’s only as far as they got, then if the next round the new attackers get the checkpoint, then they matched their distance. Fair game.
'Gotta love when Blizzard keeps calling their design mistakes "bugs" and completely ruins being able to follow their patch logic. So fun, HUGE fan of seeing people bicker over the wording on the forums and then being called out for being skeptical of the word of god-- I mean Overwatch devs' explainations, thanks Blizzard
"HEy players in ranked are shitting themselves over our poor choices ... lets double down and make even longer scripted unfun, gameplay breaking payload cutscenes" Blizzard...so fukin sad dude. 6 years ago if you told me this would happen id never have started playing this game. I got kicked out of masters due to that dorado bug. Maybe that makes me biased but dude...OW2 is the worst game blizzard has ever touched.
It wasn’t just a bug on 66. It’s a bug on all 3. Blizzard is just such a lazy ass company that they never took the time to pay attention and realize that the bug affected more than one of their maps. And it’s because everyone bitched and complained about it being an issue on 66, because it was encountered significantly more than the other 2. The simple answer is that they simply don’t want to fix the problems with their game. Because that means, more work, and acknowledging you didn’t do a great job in the first place. They don’t want to hurt their income so they ignore it, and call it “A FEATURE”
