The Philosophy of Amon and Communism in Avatar 

Ok

Looking forward to it :)

Cool

Cue the Tolkien quote about allegory and applicability.

To be honest I thought that Kuvira was the closets to representing Communism or the closest to the Chinese Communist Party. The forceful takeover and expansion, destroying the monarchy and being a dictator.

Agreed. Any suggestions?

@@alyseleem2692 a further Avatar series could maybe focus again on the bender vs non-bender dynamic as their world moves further away from the elemental conflicts with the coming together of the nations. Perhaps non-benders need more representation! As Tim says, the council has a representative of each nation/element and they're all benders. Perhaps they need a representative who isn't a bender, to hold them accountable for power which benefits benders the most. We saw more of it in Korra with Amon's crew, but I'd love to see more of the world to do with non-benders. How could they develop strategies to combat benders in combat, for example. Or even a story from the PoV of a non-bender to truly see how they see benders. Maybe they don't see them favourably!

@@GeorgeThoughts SPOILERS! Sadly, they did away with that in LOK. We've got President Raiko,first president of the United Republic and a nonbender. He's not a good ruler,and his character isn't explored. There's also Firelord Izumi,who appears only once. The revolution is barely ever mentioned, with no consequences in sight.

@@GeorgeThoughts As for combat, we got platinum mechs,chi blocking ,general martial arts,glorified tasers,some guy with electric kali sticks and a big mustache ( he ded. 😥),WWII style bombers and so on.

@@GeorgeThoughts If your suggestions are to come to fruition,we need a rewrite.

I had it in the original script. Just didn't make the cut in the end.

Well given that it isn’t a 1 to 1 allegory...... why bother bringing it up? I mean, it clearly was not objectively meant to be read that way and I know that for sure. So.....

They did that with Ozai and the Fire Nation already.

@@lainiwakura1776 That's because it can actually be applied to Ozai and the fire nation. Given that it's an eastern inspired show, visual reflections will be present, yes, but is there more to be said beyond that?

@@HelloFutureMe I thought Amon was more of a fascist especially because he is named after a nazi. Also the flag and the first scene we saw him reminds me of the swastika and hitlers speech

Yeah, like Hillbilly Elegy. It wasn't political, but because it was giving the audience a closer look at broken families and individuals rather than people groups, Rotten Tomatoes pretended it was toxic.

@@marshmallowvampire8503 How many times do I have to say this: Rotten Tomatoes literally justs compiles reviews of critics. They do not "decide" or "pretend" anything.

Up to what point is that the audience fault for not understanding, and the author's fault for not being clearer about their intentions?

@@Xitoshi Certainly a difficult question. I don't think it's possible for such a definite point to be established. I think it's on a case-by-case basis. That being said, a large portion of the audience seeing red and gold and a vaguely Stalin inspired poster and going "IT'S COMMUNISM!!" while ignoring all the *MASSIVE* textual differences between Amon's ideology and Communism is 100% the fault of the audience for not understanding.

facism is mostly aesthetics

AGREED!

Only a wierd few like those love triangles but I'll be damned if probending wasn't worth every second of screen time it got

I'd say it was more a problem of the producers not giving enough time to flesh it out, rather than the size of the writing team.

@@malaineeward5249 Both were part of the issue. More writers could have figured out a solution and/or theoretically written the story better

@@malaineeward5249 As I said, they chose to spend most of their time with the love triangles and a sport that went no where

i think that season should have been two seasons, having the bad guy of the season is kinda like having the bad guy of the week in other shows

An explanation does not make it better and they still wasted a lot of screentime on nostalgia and the love triangle for example. Just compare the introduction of characters to ATLA: it sets up the world and the main conflict in one minute with the special intro and then all the 1st tier characters in the following 10 minutes. Even if it is contrived we jump directly from Katara and Sokka squabbling and finding Aang to Zuko explaining that he needs to capture the Avatar to regain his honor and Iroh trying to calm him down. And then they all interact. If ATLA was like TLOK Aang would just pick up Katara on a trip to the north pole to find a teacher and then somewhere in the 5th episode would they randomly run into Zuko.

>_> they MIGHt have more breathing room if they didn't keep doing the whole love triangle... ... just saying...

@@battybuddy The Corporate Ordered Love Triangle?

To be fair, they had forever to plan TLA and made the same mistake. TLA's all about Taoism and there being some good in evil and vice-versa -- but Ozai, Zhao, and Long Feng all turned out to be absolute evils (and pretty cliched villains, especially Ozai). The mistakes Tim points out in this video are the same mistakes these writers have been making since the beginning.

Or maybe Amon AND the Red Lotus! It could work, if only for a temporary alliance.

@@KevinACarroll1996 The Red Lotus wanted pure Anarchy, and destruction of major organisation. The Equalists wanted bending to be a non-issue, to destroy the rampant abuse of bending over non-benders. They both are villains for political reasons, but come from completely different places. Maybe some equalists would have some Red Lotus ideals, maybe a member of the Red Lotus may contemplate Equalist solutions, but for the most part they would most likely be hostile to each other. Still, the thought of Amon fighting the Red Lotus just sounds way too cool.

@@isleep2dream762 I think they would at least get along temporarily in some instances because they have so many common enemies. The avatar and rulers of the nations are enemies they both share. I don't know how the Equalists would feel about working with murderers though. But yeah, Amon trying to take on all 4 main members of the Red Lotus would be awesome to watch!

@@KevinACarroll1996 I disagree. Amon is too OP. Bloodbending shuts down anyone unless your the Avatar.

@@Drake00000010 That's a good point. I forgot that it was shown to work on an entire room of people. I was thinking that 4 powerful benders could resist, but definitely not after showing what Yakone was capable of.

Probably yes. It'll take time to forget him.

I actually think that Amonism could become a lasting ideology in the avatar world. But overtime will develop into separate branches based on different interpretations. Like real life ideologies. Although I think equalism would be a better name. For example: Orthodox Equalism - hardcore equalist, who believe a violent revolution and overthrowing the benders, is the only way to equality. Prioritize aggressive propaganda, agitation, and open confrontation. Aka: Amonist Equalism Reformist Equalism - believe in achieving equality for non benders, via legal & legitimate means . Like voting for laws in favor of non benders, and boycotting ones against them. Wants to promote the idea of non-bender class conscious. Aka: Equalism with fire nation characteristics Industrial Equalism - wants to achieve equality with mass industrialization & technological advancement. Believe that though modernization non benders could potentially even the playing field. Popular with non bender majority labor unions Aka: Hiroshi Sato thought / Satoist Equalism National Equalism- believe that for the revolution to be achieved requires a centralized authority. Namely making a new nation for non benders. Want to solidify power first with in a localized area, seeing reckless expansion as damaging the cause. Aka: Equalism in one country Red Equalism- combining equalism with aspects of red lotus philosophy. Argue that inequality is a product of unjust hierarchies/authority. Believing that benders not only benefit, but perpetrated this system. Questions the idea of both state & benders authority. Aka: Anarcho equalism Edit: Possible names for an equalist country in avatar, either the union of equalist republics or just the equalist union.

@@michaelsayavong2656 I was just making a joke about Marxism and how socialism is a boogeyman.

@@michaelsayavong2656 That could be a real interesting exploration of the themes amon brings up. I personally believe that amon was kinda right that non-benders are exploited and shut out of society but i would be as you put it a 'reformist equalist', using similar methods to the real life civil rights movement.

I started world building for an Avatar from a nonbending Earth Kingdom village that still held the feelings of LoK B1

He's not sympathetic though. "Create equality by bringing privileged / advantaged people down" is an abhorrent idea. It's better for some people to advantaged than for everyone to be disadvantaged.

@@XavionofThera easy to say from the position of privelege

@@Urfin_Djus Aka the less biased position. The position where you aren't consumed by jealousy (an irrational and fundamentally immoral state of mind - feeling that others should suffer because you suffered). Regardless, this ("eAsY fOr YoU to SaY") is such a bad argument. It's not meaningful. It's not falsifiable. It's just a dumb, self-righteous attempt at a gotcha.

@@XavionofThera Ah yes, the position of privilege is less biased, because you absolutely don't have any vested interests in keeping the unequal status-quo. "See, it's better when I can bend and you can't, than when we both can't". Because maintaining the inherently unjust social hierarchy is a highly moral and ethical stance to take.

@@Urfin_Djus "Not tearing people down simply for being born privileged" is the moral position to take. That's removing value from the world to sate your jealousy. "Others have more than me" isn't a moral wrong. And intellectually having a logical "vested interest" is quite different from the highly emotional state of being jealous of others good fortune.

Well said. Unfortunately, dictators too often consider themselves 'honor bound' to stripping advantage from those who have it over helping others improve. Another thing often missed is that at their core, almost every philosophy based on this core premise will result in similar damage to society that ultimately destroys, no matter what the intentions may be of those who perpetuate these ideas.

@@g.davidturnblom5751 I agree, but also I think a huge problem in society today is how many progressive ideologies get demonized with strawman arguments about stripping advantages that only get reinforced by TV plots like the one with Amon. I see people freak out all the time the minute the word "privilege" is mentioned because if they do have privilege, their first instinct is to fear that anyone making a critique of that privilege is doing so because they want to take their privilege away, when in fact that is often not the case at all and what is really being argued for is that the advantaged group's privilege is unfair, and that is exactly why we need to extend that privilege to the disadvantaged group. That's what made me think how different Legend of Korra would be if Amon were able to give bending to non-benders instead.

@@princesseuphemia1007, good points. Unfortunately, the extremists on both sides contribute a lot to this confusion. When people are asked to "check your privilege" and that is based on non-commutable traits, it hurts the arguments that others are making in hopes of improving life for everyone. The biggest problem, though, is when choice becomes the domain of a precious few, especially among those claiming a desire to make choice more accessible.

@@g.davidturnblom5751 I see what you mean. I just think the whole "check your privilege" thing also occupies a grey area. For example, if you're white that is in fact an immutable trait, but having white privilege is less immutable not because your skin inherently has privilege encoded into it's DNA or something, but because the society around you is pervaded with prejudice in favor of whites and that can affect you and your beliefs about the world without you being totally aware of it. That doesn't mean everyone in society is super racist or that every judgement call you ever make it automatically going to be wrong because it may come from a place of privilege. Sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes we're even wrong as a direct result of our privilege in society. To me that doesn't mean we should guilt trip ourselves all day long or never say anything ever again because it "might" come from a place of privilege we didn't think about yet, more that we should just remember to keep it in mind as a possibility and try to examine it honestly when it does pop up. Hopefully in the future society will become equal to the point that it won't be an issue anymore, but for the time being it's something we become all the wiser for keeping in mind. Now on the other hand if someone is arguing that white people are inherently impure or inferior as a direct result of the DNA that makes our skin white then that truly is persecution for an immutable trait, but that isn't at all the same thing as saying "check your privilege that you currently happen to have in society due to a complex history of sociopolitical, cultural, and economic factors".

@@g.davidturnblom5751 Also I want to acknowledge that some people will use the privilege argument to deflect from a point that is actually legitimate just because it happens to come from someone who is privileged in some way, and that definitely isn't helpful, but that also doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater because like I said, sometimes we are in fact wrong or just ignorant of the wider context and nuance of things going on around us as a direct result of having privilege so I don't see any reason not to consider that if we want to help change the world the better.

The creators specifically wanted to to do it this way to tackle more political ideologies outside their bubble. Idk what the second season was supposed to be though, eco-fascism?

I think the effects of season 1 should've been more apparent in season 2,it would help season 1 feel less different from the others 1st season is very political, the start of the 2nd is as well then it changes to spirits and the rest are very political as well

​@@sskpsp When they made the first season, they didn't know they were going to get a second season. So they tried to make it a self contained story and I think that's a big reason it feels so rushed.

@@Disthron Ah that's true, but I feel like there is also an element holding over from ATLA where the political moral pushed by the writers is not really justified fully, just kinda put out there and it happens because the writers want it to... Like Aang training for 3 seasons to master being the Avatar and fight the Fire Lord then suddenly he doesn't want to be violent, rejects all the lore of previous Avatars, then meets a lion turtle who supersedes the titular Avatar and the four-element-bending with spirit-bending just so the writers didn't have to make Aang kill the Fire Lord.

I'm pretty sure the first season is like it is because they were only originally given one season so the story of it was wrapped up in case they didn't get any more seasons

Yeah….I can kind of get it as a blind spot for a non-American, though.

Is communism the same as socialism?

@@ibrahimihsan2090 Nope. They're related but different economic approaches.

@@lindenshepherd6085the distinction only really exists nowadays, with communism describing Marxism Leninism and Socialism being democratic socialism. IIRC Marx didn’t really define them as separate things, them both referring to an economy controlled by the workers.

That's a really fair comparison - should have mentioned it. ~ Tim

@@HelloFutureMe it happens, I just hope you’ll consider a the disabled perspective more in the future

Hey, also disabled here. It might be interesting to dig into the social model of disability - draws a distinction between impairment and disability, with impairment being the fact of ones body, and disability being constructed by society.

Sort off. While it definitely limits the things you can do, no one will discriminate against you because of it.

@@larsdejong7396 people definitely discriminate against me for being disabled.

Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? I see the way you're acting like you're somebody else. Gets me frustrated. Just admit that you love the videos I make, my dear ta

yeah, is not that he likely has editors besides himself that could be in any timezone

Nah I did get up at 3am mate ~ Tim

@@AxxLAfriku _get out_

@@HelloFutureMe please do an Attack on titan video.

Me,too.

Yeah, that twist was really dumb and contrived. It's almost as if the writers couldn't find a compelling reason why Amon was wrong, and just resorted to "look, he's a hypocrite after all" in an attempt to quickly end that plotline before they write themselves into a corner.

@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus I don't see it as bad more like rushed. The idea of benders helping even leading ain't bad as a base it's more execution that fails. There is a reason people like Amon his ideals those radical have merit yet he also shows this even further as in reality a non bender revolution would need bender allies if they don't want major casualties. Technology can only level the field so much without firearms. If they had more time this could have worked.

​@@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus Lol it wasn't contrived. The idea of Amon being a bender who hates bending is actually more interested than Amon just being a non-bender who hates bending. As tarrlok said, Amon's intentions were genuine. I agree with Jack Lau that the ending was rushed, though. The concept was brilliant and had potential but they didn't milk it fully. Still a good season tho.

How many times do you people have to be told season 1 was supposed to be the entire series. Season 2 was officiated much later

Then what is the Divide between benders and nonbenders? What is it that makes them feel so oppressed as to cause this? A few street thugs? Simple Fear?

@@alyseleem2692 hi! to me the seperation of non-benders and benders in republic city is more through the government and police/military. the council was made up of all benders who were not elected, meaning benders run the city. this allows people like tarrlok to come into power and oppress non-benders through the council. the police force is also made up of and run by benders. also, even though benders dont necessarily have an advantage getting jobs, they do have an advantage in the crime scene. triads like the triple threats start to run the poorer areas of the city by using their bending to oppress non-benders. this seperates the non-benders and benders more than class in republic city.

@@danalockhart1841 Good idea. Thank you for this answer!

Except it backfired. mako and Bolin used bending to become rich as pro benders. Caste systems will always be evil and immoral Amon is correct.

​@alyseleem2692 No taxation without representation! That is basically the simple truth of the divide in that city. Benders are represented and have power. Non benders aren't and have no power.

He already did one on zaheer

@@rulersaury can you link it?

The season 3 group was an incoherent mix of contradictory ideologies. They tried to mix the anti-monarchy and anti-bureaucracy of anarchism with the let the strong rule the weak of anarcho-capitalism, which are very strongly opposed ideologies. It sounds like it was made by someone who didn’t understand anything about anarchism trying to make an antagonist based around anarchism.

@@GogiRegion Where did Zaheer make any might makes right statements?!? He is more of the philosophy of abolishing all (unjust) hierarchies, 'might' is also a hierarchy...

@@GogiRegion ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--DyKwTXPar4.html Kay and Skittles did an entire series on the politics of Korra, with this one about Zaheer as a lazy embodiment of anarchism

i too, yet nickelodeon messed the writers around that much that it wasn't possible

Yeah, it just seemed like as soon as Amon was defeated, they just gave some halfass blink-and-you-missed-it explanation of why he was able to take away bending, but I don't think they even began to touch on anything like motive, or how he gained power, or what would have happened if it was revealed that he himself was a bender, or anything like that. He's just defeated and then never even really mentioned again.

@@battybuddy And everything sorted itself out. The inequality between Benders and Non-Benders. S2: "What"

Not entirely, next time you see Rep City, they have an elected nonbender president, instead of a council of benders from the nations. So there was a big change, it just wasn't elaborated on.

@@Szentatyaisten this,in episode 4 we see that the council immediately treat the Equalists aggressively,since they're all benders they are immediately threatened by the taking away of bending so refuse to hear their complaints. A Non-Bender leader means that they would likely be more sympathetic to the struggles of non benders

Agreed.

True, every single season was rushed but Amon's story was the most interesting one

You have to remember that during this time, they were only guaranteed a season at a time, so they made each season wrap up nicely so they wouldn’t leave their audience at a cliffhanger in case it wasn’t going to return. Thus, the faster paced storytelling. If they had the time like Avatar had, then they definitely could’ve explored more, but they didn’t know what time they were working with and only worked in the frame of the time they were given upfront. So it’s extremely unfortunate because Korra’s villains are so dynamic and interesting and worth exploring. And they’re better because it’s geared for an older audience. Blame Nickelodeon for stunting this show.

@@VargsTV We wanted a cliffhanger! We could've filled it with fanfiction or whatever!

Yeah Amon worked really well as a parallel to Korra. As Korras aggressive tendencies and obsession of bending showed the potential of what Amon was trying to remove. Thats why Korra as so fearful of him because her identity revolved around being an all powerful super hero who beats up bad guys. Amon taking away her bending means she loses her identity and is ultimately nothing in her mind. Yet..... The ending sequence with Aang restoring her bending as well as giving her FULL CONTROL of the avatar state and freaking energy bending to undo all of Amons damage... This pretty much deletes her entire arc in book one as start of book two shes immediately shown abusing the avatar state in a very childish way (racing children) as well as yelling at Mako Tenzin and her father every opportunity she has. She was suppose to learn how her bending was an obsession and how it played into her identity of the avatar causing her negative traits of aggression naivety selfishness ect. Season one was set up to be that reality check and by losing her identity she was placed in a very humbling place to learn this. Aang even says to her "When we are at our lowest point we are the most open to change" yet he just totally contradicts this statement by instead letting her be open to the change hes talking about throws her back to square one by giving her all she lost as well as two extremely powerful tools at her disposal she never earned making that avatar obsession stronger then ever. Season 1 had other problems as well (Love triangle..) But the ending by far is the worst of it. Season 1 was also the season with barely any continuity to its conflict. Korras character development is erased as stated above, all of Amons bending removal damage is neutralized because of Korras new energy bending (Barring a few gangsters that show up in season 2). Amon and Tarrlok just die by themselves without anyone knowing but the viewer and are never brought up or searched for, How benders and non benders are dealing with the new change of Raiko becoming President is never shown, Pro Bending still existing despite being one of the forms of "inequality" Bryke was hinting at ect. So yeah the ending and lack of continuity really made season one feel lack luster and really messed up the cool character development Korra had ultimately paving the road to people disliking her as a character.

If they wanted to end the season with Korra with her bending, they should have gone the predictable route and had her go Avatar State yip yip when Amon is about to take her bending. That's how it works when you can't control it, it happened a lot with Aang.

I disliked how fast Korra learned airbending. We only had one real episode of her training, and I felt really unsatisfied by the finale. She really just learns it out of the blue in the finale.

Since Korra has a spiritual block it also blocked her ability to use the avatar state. This spiritual block wasn't broken until Amon took away her bending. This block is caused by her mental image of herself being an all powerful super hero who can solve any problem so she completely ignores every duty and other responsibilities of the avatar except for physical strength ability and the powers at her disposal to use in combat because she really is naive enough to believe she can solve any problem with physical aggression. (Why Tenzin, the White Lotus, Katara, her parents, every and every responsible adult let her end up being this disrespectful self centered brat when they had 14 years to train her in times of peace is beyond me but thats a criticism for another day) Point is she couldnt even use the avatar state if she wanted to because of this block from her naive over confident beliefs she had of herself as the avatar. The avatar state is very spiritual based (As The Guru episode of ATLA shows) and how the past lives the source of power of the avatar state (Well only kinda now because of Korra making it the Ravaa state...) But talking to your past usually involves some form of spirituality like meditation. You could argue that AFTER she got her bending taken away Korra could have gone into the avatar state by breaking her spiritual block when Mako was about to lose his bending to Amon instead of Airbending (Note that the airbending Korra does vs Amon actually makes sense and isnt just some bs hidden power plot device and i can explain it if you want but for now ill stick to my main point. Just to point out it has nothing to do with Korra overcoming her fear of Amon like some peeps think but it makes 0 sense if you think about when the block starts and when her fears of Amon start) However theres one part of the sudden airbending that is very flawed of it and thats Amon being written to be dumb enough to over look the fact that the avatar can bend 4 elements not just 3. So instead of Korra airbending in that scene heres an interesting question. What if she lost all her bending air included because Amon didnt want to be an idiot but could now use the avatar state? What would that look like? Would she become a master martial artist? All bending is different forms and styles of marital arts so pretty much any benders that know the motions of bending know the martial arts that come from it. Id find it pretty entertaining that Amon was beaten by a non bender while he himself was a bender all along it would be a pretty cool message for the equality conflict of the 1st season if he was beaten like that. Of course the avatar state kinda undermines the message that non benders can still be just as strong as benders as the avatar can only use it so it isnt perfect of course. However it would not only be more interesting then just airbending because we have Korra take out Amon without bending as shown by the Yakone flashback episode the avatar state completely resists even psychic bloodbending but it also wouldnt have to make Amon be an idiot and undermine his cool character with an idiotic mistake.

@@silentsniper9000 THISS! It's really a shame too cause i feel like season 1 had a lot of potential to be really great, ik it has to do with production issues and all that, it just makes me a bit sad.

One problem with saying the show never talked about property, labor or economics is that a lot of media depicting communists doesn't mention any of that, especially due to the red scare. Most just scrub the content of the ideology squeaky clean, leaving some people not knowing at all what communists believe, or, in this case, people crying communist on Amon when better metaphors stick.

In the comics doesn’t team avatar crack down on unionists who work at industrial factories?

@@spartida3850 no idea lol only saw the shows

Totally agree. A big issue I had was that we had a huge amount of time spent trying to assert that nonbenders were screwed over but we were given so much visual storytelling to say the opposite. The Sato family are nonbenders and wield immense power, Mako and Bolin are cheated of their winnings at every turn. Aside from the metalbending police force, it seems as though the ability to wield force (in which benders hold a clear advantage) has been largely worked out of society, nullifying that advantage.

Tl/Dr, Anything>Communism

When it comes to this show, never expect them to go too deep. They ain't never gonna go through with it,no matter how much they pretend to be edgy grownups.

​@@alyseleem2692I mean they'll go deep on some things, but politics ain't really one of em. Their politics are solidly milquetoast "can't we all just get along" liberalism, and it's pretty clearly just because they've never seriously considered (whether by choice or circumstance) the reasons that doesn't work and only serves to squash the efforts of the oppressed in seeking liberation.

but magic is just science that we don't yet understand so technically "a wizard did it" is just "it's complicated" in disguise

@@jeffreydenenberg7101 Not really.... "A wizard did it!" is typically used to summarize when something happens in a work with no real explanation. Rather or not actual magic is used in the work is irrelevant.

@@13KuriMaster hey kindred spirit. I know that. And i do appreciate you taking the time to point it out. But it was a joke in support of his videos on how common he uses the phrases it's complicated and less common a wizard did it.

@@jeffreydenenberg7101 Magic isn't science. We use science to understand reality. So if magic existed science would help us understand at least some of the principles behind it , but that wouldn't make magic a science. (The study of magic would, but magic itself would just be a thing in the world.) A storm isn't science, but it can be explained by science.

@@donchon7580 13KuriMaster was replying to Jeffery Denenberg not you

I remember a similar story, where those who are advantaged are implanted with technology or forced to wear restraints and deliberately handicapped to prevent them from being better physically than others. If they were more attractive, they had to wear masks. The story ended when someone who managed to throw off their mask and shackles was executed. Unfortunately, I can't recall the title of the story or the author.

@@downtime86stars17 Yes, that’s Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut. I don’t like it very much-it fundamentally misunderstands what equality is and suggests it isn’t something worth striving for.

@@thegreatkingofevilganondor1500 I don't think it misunderstands equality, it is a metaphor for what can happen when a society distorts equality. I live in a part of the country where civic "leaders" ran -- and got elected -- on platforms in which they PROMISED to punish successful people. They are doing it, too, using economics rather than physical restraints and brain implants, but the parallels are there.

Pretty sure the kid gets shot in the end actually. Least the story I read of that sort.

​@@downtime86stars17 do you mean not letting capitalists hoard the vast majority of wealth at the expense of impoverishing the rest of society because if you do. That's not a punishment, that's accountability.

Which would work a bell of a lot better if they hadn't set Legend of Korra in the fucking industrial revolution

@@firetarrasque4667 Or made it a Republic in the first place. Seriously, these guys can vote!

Until you realize that he was absolutely misguided in an attempt to destroy a government system and ended up making it worse politically.

I always find Zaheer interesting on a meta level in how wrong the show portrays Anarchism. I guess its a compliment to an ideology when the only way to 'debunk it' is to miss-characterize it so grossly that it isn't that ideology anymore.

Not really but that's just me

@@alexgroot2508 Even if you are right, Iroh himself points out that Zaheer is not inherently wrong, but merely taking his ideology too far and falling out of balance

@@taylor_green_9 Toph is the one that points that out, but my issue is not with Zaheer taking 'anarchism too far'- what Zaheer preaches is straight up *not anarchism.* You can't go 'too far' in something you're not even doing a little of.

Viewed in that context imagine a disability movement that was about cutting off people's limbs or removing their ability to walk or move. I think any disability advocate would disavow that sort of violent extremism.

@@AlicedeTerre yeah. That's why it works as a better tie in to bending then money. Removing someone's limbs is horrifying just like what the equalists were doing.

The revolutionary duo

Radiation bending when

We already have a nuclear allegory with the vine bombs developed by Varick

If kuvira reunited the earth kingdom it would’ve been that way between her and the fire nation.

That would be savage

friendly mushroom... mushy giant frieeeend

True.

And against nazism, USSR biggest ally wasn't USA?

@@MineralTrainer Kinda yes. Kinda no. By the end of the war,open suspicion boiled on both sides.

Well to be fair, the Kay and Skittles video does go into detail on that point. Even though Amon isn't communist in any ideological sense, he and the conflict in the first season are still meant to be an allegory for socialism, just like the later antagonists are allegories for anarchism and nationalism. They are not exactly good allegories, but they are allegories nonetheless, and clearly intended to be understood as such by the authors.

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

Friedrich Engels was exactly that though - wealthy industrialist who cared about the working class. His first titular study in that field is called "The Condition of the Working Class in England".

Because Communism is a huge lie - so it actually fits pretty well

@@AL-gy8fx as a socialist il ask you why do you think thet

​@@bosniencommie1202 Don't know, ask a starving commie

@Діма Базалюк Yes

indeeed, the floor here is made of floor

Well, both the US and the Nazis took pages from each other’s books. But yes, I would say it better describes the US than Nazi Germany.

Agreed.

Not every show has to be one giant series arc. I miss older more episodic shows personally.

@@XavionofThera It would've been great. 😭

True.

Ah Amon, the only villain in this sequel that I believed was actually good till they ruined him. It would've been better if he remained as a symbol of Fighting the Inequalities that non-benders faced, like "V" from "V for Vendetta." I.M.O., the "inequality" that the non-benders face is as fabricated as the "oppression" faced by the Faunus in RWBY. I don't recall any non-bender character in TLOK to ever complaing that benders had more advantages than they did. If anything, all the tech that non-benders have actually gives them the same advantages; they know how to make electricity, build, and even live without the need for bending, SO WHY WERE THIS WORLD'S EQUIVALENT OF MAGICIANS EVER A PROBLEM??? We aren't shown that non-benders have it worse than benders and even if we were, it apparently wasn't impactful enough to leave a lasting memory. Also, if the fact that Benders are a threat because of their magic is what the Equalists are really all about, then they wouldn't even be called "Equalists." Rather, they would be called something else that associates them with their goals of eradicating "the source of the world wars." It doesn't matter how many video essayists will dissect TLOK and call it "brilliant," the fact still remains that it was horribly put together. How would you like it if the Fire Lord was defeated in the first season of TLAB and they had to start out from scratch with a bigger more threatening villain for the next??? It gives the overall story a sense that there's no endgame planned since we'll just keep getting a new big bad next season. Just imagine how things would've turned out if TLOK was just focused on Benders vs Non-benders and what exactly the Avatar's place in the world would be if there's no imbalance between the Four Elements.

Your take makes it seem like Amon is faking his passion to get personal power, but this isn't the case. Amon is completely genuine in his cause.

@@cometmoon4485 With all due respect, No. The moment he was revealed to be a bender,any truth coming from him became suspect. That he kept using his bending in the way you saw in the finale only confirmed it. If he didn't believe in it,he was purely a liar. If he did, he was a hypocrite.

@@alyseleem2692 The writers have stated that Amon's motives were genuine. Even if you want to disregard their comments, the narrative treats Amon as a well-intentioned extremist as well, because he never acts contrary to his cause, and Tarrlok says as much to Korra and Mako. Personally, I don't find Amon to be a hypocrite. The Equalists believed that benders should not use their powers to abuse and extort non-benders; that was their main societal grievance. Amon only ever used his bending against other benders in the defense of non-benders (with the exception of his lieutenant, which was self-defense and necessary to keeping his secret from spreading and ruining the movement). Even in the final fight with Korra and Mako, he only used his powers to subdue them long enough to take their bending. He wasn't out to kill or power-trip; his bloodbending was used for utilitarian reasons only.

And this is reinforced by society. To be wealthy is to be smart, accomplished, worthy. Stems from days of royalty and the intertwining of religion.

I don't think you've ever talked to someone with wealth. They view it as something they've rightfully earned through their efforts, because they have.

I've talked to and know people with wealth. They inherited it. They did nothing for it. They didn't work for it. It was given to them. Passed down. And they DID think they really did something to get it. That they were worthy and worked hard (they didn't). It was laughable to see how they viewed themselves. But also sad.

@@Markadown there fathers propley eared it

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl how do you know that? How do you know it was not passed down? Generational wealth is a thing. But what does that even has to do with the person who did nothing to earn it? Whose to say the wealth is from their father's and not their mother?

I agree. Like Zootopia, it isn't meant to perfectly parallel real life, but it's a metaphor for real life issues. The most interesting thing about Zootopia, for me anyway is that they made the odd choice of making predators not just hated, but they used to "rule" the world. They used to consume and attack others, until later. Plus, it's presented as a both sides thing, as both have reasons to fear each other: the prey just don't like predators for their past actions, and the predators are angry b'coz they're stereotyped as, in Nick Canon's words, acting out of a deficiency (or primitive, savage ways) and "that's how they servived". In the case of the predators it's semi true, but anyone can defy their nature and be good people/creatures.

@@swangrisly2148 "making prey not just hated, but they used to "rule" the world." i think you meant to write predator lol Also i agree its really intresting, adds some nuance to it.

@@lucyandecember2843 Yes that's what I meant. My fault. That predators controlled the world.😄😅😅

@Connor B_THATNERDYGUY they obviously didn't. They even made the idiotic racism comparison for Zootopia when it was literally NEVER about racism, it was about Prejudice

@@tutumazibuko2510 ...prejudice based on race.

@fightingfalcon777 now i have the image of amon taking away korra mojo...

@@chongwillson972 🤣🤣🤣 Amon: *finds frozen Korra* HAHAHAHA! I’ve got your mojo now, Avatar! *extracts the mojo* Korra: *in bed with Asami* OH, MY RAAVA! I’ve lost my mojo!

I don’t think that would change or challenge Amons stance at all. Amon IS a water bender and understands more than most how even that can be corrupted to a high degree.

@@Falcon.Crunch you're right. I don't think it's enough to challenge his stance, especially since he refers to it as an impurity, but I would've like to see the topic addressed for his viewpoint and further discussion.

@@PhoutianPhill yeah that’s fair. I can’t say that I wouldn’t also like to see how he’d respond to that.

It'd be interesting to hear his rationalization, but that's ultimately what he'd do.

His hatred is effectively religious in it's fervour. In his eyes,all bending must be replaced by hard earned tech and work. In short ,a world like our own.

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

Agreed.

YA stories that use wizards as a metaphor for oppressed ethnic minorities really annoy me because ethnic minorities are never that different to the majority of their society in a way that justifies discrimination, whereas if wizards existed I would definitely want laws in place restricting what they can do. If people with magic powers should be a metaphor for anyone, it's the wealthy, because if they did exist they would probably sit right at the top of the pyramid.

that's half correct. I think that even "aliens" are relatable enough to make a good story about the human condition. also, it's exactly this arbitrary divide that can serve as a great narrative tool: because in the real world, many people do feel (and it's justified to an extent) that wealth and stuff is just "inborn" and luck dependent. also, there is a real life analog to this: disabilities.

I think that neither realism nor fantasy is perfect on their own. You're right that fantasy often falls into tropes and patterns that makes it harder to relate their messages to the real world. For instance, fantasy racism doesn't map onto real world racism perfectly, since fantasy races are often actually different from each other and not just a cultural construct. It becomes at least one step divorced from it's real world counterpart in most cases. But I think that fantasy stories can offer a different perspective on real world issues. If you limit yourself to only thinking in terms of what is possible in the real world, you unnecessarily limit the discussion to what we believe is possible. Thinking about what is right and wrong in different contexts is a good exercise, even if it doesn't lead to a direct material outcome, because it helps develop your understanding of those concepts in stronger and more flexible ways. That said, I do think that it is really important that we do distinguish the limits of fantasy. The more you change the context, the more separate it's outcomes will be from reality. That said, I think dehumanizing people in fantasy stories is really weird. I think I understand what you mean by it, but you might want to rethink that wording.

The boys (2019)

your comment had a perfect ending! I regard this a canon now lol

Basically mutants vs humans in X-Men

@@Excalibur01 kind of, but not really. in x men they wanted to exterminate the mutants, and mutant powers are much more extreme than bending

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 but still a special power only the few can have and can be dangerous

@@Excalibur01 yes, but it's still far from being "basically the same thing"

HFM definitely did not understand Kay and Skittles' analysis... which makes this video incorrect ^^ I agree with your statement

Indeed!

Yes leftists totally dont identify with wealth? Have you been to any fucking major city in america? Yea people in cali totally dont do that. Not like the people there want to always be around their wealthy friends lmao. Its totally just because of his personality tho lol

@@Ryleeman54number2 I completely agree with you that Left-leaning people are just as materialistic and attracted to wealth as anyone else. That wasn't my point and I believed that you misunderstood what I wrote. What I was arguing is that most people on the Left do not believe wealth to be an immutable trait. For example, people on the Left believe that a person is born gay. They couldn't not be gay because it's immutable, it's part of their very being. People on the Right (at least used to) believe that gay is a choice and that if a gay person sincerely does not want to be gay that their "gayness" is separable and they could leave it behind. When it comes to wealth, people on the Left tend to see wealth as a choice and you can be the same person whether or not you are wealthy. On the Right, wealth tends to be seen as an external validation for how good someone is and taking that wealth would be forcing a person to give up something that rightfully belongs to them and is nearly immutable. That's the argument.

@@oremfrien ive honestly see the opposite. I grew up in a very republican area and they dont really care about being rich per se. In my experience leftists are way more obsessed with it. While far leftists dont care too much about wealth i believe a vast majority of liberals do. Even if they say otherwise. They talk and walk differently if you get what I mean. While most republicans ive met just want to fish and drink beer and listen to shitty music lmao

I understand your anguish, living with an incurable condition myself. However, as far as I know, glaucoma can be slowed down very much by treatment. If you get your eyes checked regularly and they spot it early and begin treatment, it can take as long as 30-40 years until you lose sight in the eye. Of course, it's still a bitch to deal with. I wish you well and hope that the fear of losing your sight doesn't overshadow your life to the point of paralysis. And congrats on the design degree.

im just commenting so i can find this comment again

You don't just become blind the moment you develop glaucoma. I was born with it and it went untreated for years, I was finally diagnosed at the age of 11, when I noticed I could barely see out of my right eye when I covered my left one, and we went to the optician's where it turned out that my eye pressures were far too high. I have it in both eyes but it's at a more advanced stage in my right, I only have 10% of my optic nerve left in that eye. I use eye drops twice a day in both my eyes for it, and had an operation on my right eye when I was 13 (which left me half deaf and with tinnitus but that's another story), which have been effective at halting the condition and maintaining my eye pressures at normal levels. It doesn't affect me much since I have my left eye to compensate basically. Hopefully since you know you're at risk the condition wouldn't progress to the point you're almost blind, another reason I didn't notice is because it only really affected one of my eyes. The point is if it's detected early and you get the right treatment the condition can be halted/prevented from making you blind. It's obviously a scary prospect that you could lose your sight one day, especially since you're passionate about visual arts, but it doesn't really work instantly like that with glaucoma. Idk if you'll ever read this haha, but you should feel reassured, and hopefully you might not end up developing it at all. :)

as someone who recently discovered I'm disabled, I fully feel this. I have often cried over the fear I may never be able to dance or enjoy life again like I used to. having your passions stripped away from you is incredibly terrifying. I'm really glad you're living your life and I hope you are able to pursue the things that make you happy for a long time!

This! I was watching this video and, like, I’m glad my boy Tim knows what communism actually is but his fundamental misunderstanding is that what Amon is in the show is likely what mike and Bryan think it is.

Has always been, to be honest. The kulak is basically a racial class. Most early communists were also anti-semitic at their core, marx and engles as pristine examples.

@@lloydgush The kulak is not and never has been a racial class. It refered to high income peasants. There were also terms for middle income (serednyak) and low income (bednyak) peasants. You never hear about those two because they actually supported the collectivisation policies in the early Soviet Union. Most people in general in the 1800s and early 1900s were antisemitic. You could say "Marx and Engels supported the wearing of mustaches to their core" and it would be about as much a commentary of their personality.

@@lloydgush Stalin for another, he may have survived had he not arrested all Jewish doctors a short time before his stroke.

‘Woke culture’ is the pursuit of redistribution of wealth, power, and land down race gender and class lines in pursuit of aims of 'social justice' -Ash Sarkar People like Ash Sarkar are applying communist theory to immutable traits such as race and gender and this is why ‘equality’ is seen as a communist dog whistle as Tim points out. Because communists are using it as a dog whissle. Now that people started catching on they started using 'equity'.

Same.

It's also kinda funny to me that he knows either not much or bs about American politics.😂😂😂😂

Why Do you Type Like this?

@@milospollonia1121 What do you mean ?

@@marshmallowvampire8503 Most people know nothing about politics in general, lets be honest

So they're cultural marxists then?

@@gabekeeter6415 yes

There is a recognition at the end of the season that only allowing benders in government is messed up. It’s also suggested that nonbenders are generally poorer, since we only see one wealthy nonbender family compared to bending politicians, Korras comfy white lotus international life style, Tenzin “my family has their own island”, and the rich bending criminals.

@@gabekeeter6415 You know nobody actually identifies with that and it's just a strawman to demonize people who just want equal rights, right?

@@johnkronz7562 I guess but the two most powerful and influential corporations Sato Inc. And Cabbage Corps. Are both owned by nonbenders. And in the homeless town there's a mixture of benders and nonbenders.

Based

Agreed, and cool take! But I wonder, is there any way in the Avatar universe to "dismantling the pyramid of hierarchy and supremacy" of bending? Benders would always inherently have a higher capacity for usefulness than a non-bender.

Hello Future Me put more thought into this than the Writers, obviously. I normally never say this about this channel, but this time, he's overthinkig it. LOK is just a Mess.

Communist aren't people

@@kingnothing5678 ok boomer

yeah, I mean that was the point of the K&s vid

"Nobody cared who I was until I put on the mask"

I still prefer the season 3, but season 1 is undoubtely very good (the second in my list). almost everything about it is compeling and well written

**Among Us Theme starts playing**

I think you're missing my point here. My point is not that the writers didn't draw on communist and fascist ideas when building Amon. My point is that they drew on them for effect, to recall certain fears and certain feelings, and not because Amon is intended as 1:1 allegory as some people suggest. So treating it as 1:1 creates bad media criticism. People were right to say there are aesthetic similarities that invoke certain ideas, but not correct to say that Amon IS a critique of real-world communism. ~ Tim

Yeah, I agree with Kay and Skittles, the story is an insight to the politics of the writers. Socialists are as bad as fascists. Keep it status quo.

Mind ti 'edit' again for grammar? Hope you dont mind.

That.. Is the POINT of appropriating the imagery. Its not that the connection is non existent, its just not an exact parallel; Even on top of that its less directly a connection on communism itself and more so populism, people are just a bit trigger happy with Communism particularly.

@@zashgekido5616 "We arent anti-communist we just use names, aesthetics, and visuals to evoke those feelings."

@@aevum6667 for real lmao I can't with these people defending Mike and Bryan

Individualism. He is the epitome of individualism. Stirner 101.

@@Padtedesco that Beavis looking guy talking about spooks?

At least we know that actual anarchists exist in ATLA. In S2 it's mentioned that there's an anarchist cell in Ba Sing Se.

Sorry but I don't remember Zaheer pushing for capitalism at all. And those acts of chaos seem much more in line with black block anarchists.

At what point was Zaheer an ancap, and how do you define that as being an oxymoron?

sokka? is that you?

Somebody had to say it.

I mean, lots of figures have their ideologies named after them. So it's not far off.

cue bad joke amon meme template

Communism with bending characteristics

Ok i absolutely agree with that being a problem But lime hello future me was arguing amon was not supposed to represemt comunism

@@anyoneatall3488 I know. But that is how and why he does miss the point. The point never was that Amon is supposed to 100% represent communism, the point is that Amon's portrayal heavily lends from negative portrayals of communism and as such propagates misinformation and negative stereotypes.

Yea as much as I enjoyed LOK they very often liked making their villains minority groups rising up against their oppressors. "Oh they are taking it to the extreme so that's why it's bad" well then you are insinuating that any revolutions had are villainous. Oppressors don't listen to peaceful protests and often, as even seen in the show, punish those doing it. So in the end what are these people left to do? And then LOK paints those people in villainous tones for realizing their peaceful protests are just being ignored and turn to the path of revolution. edit: grammar

Technology was meant to replace the power of bending. It's a labor movement with heavy factory worker backing. These guys are led/financed by major technological innovators, and their fighting represents that. I'd almost call them tech benders.

This is an issue I have with this discussion is that we can't discuss Amon's ideas without discussing him as a character. The reason why he believes that it's evil despite all evidence otherwise is because he has seen bending at its most evil, I would even say traumatized by it. I think that one of the reasons why I would say "Amon took his ideas too far" isn't the fact that he was fighting for equality or a revolution, it's the fact that he was working to not only remove a core part of a benders identity, but he also didn't realize that the world does function better with benders, who can provide unique advantages: being good healers, creating electricity. Those things benefit non-benders too. Amon wasn't trying to come up with a solution that benefitted everyone the most, he was only focused on helping non-benders, so his solution was damaging and kind of unfair to benders who don't abuse their power and who use it to actively help people. The problem with the Equalist movement, and the reason why I believe it was painted the way it was, is because it actively hurt people. Bending is a part of someone's identity, and that was being ripped away from them. Not to mention that the movement also electrocuted people, scared benders and nonbenders alike, and was actively tearing away a huge part of the economy, people's livelihoods. That's not a victimless crime, that hurt people. Maybe Amon's intentions were good, but we can't pretend like his actions were because they weren't.

Yeah, I think Tim (and the show runners, for that matter) really missed the mark here. Abled and disabled people are a thing that exist in a real world. No matter how hard I work, I'm never going to not have asthma. No matter how good at a job I am, it's always going to be more difficult for me to exist in a work environment because I have autism and ADHD. There was potential to explore bending as a kind of super-ability, which would have been really cool and a good way to get around how we in the real world often picture anyone with a disability as worth less than abled people. Instead, we got... Whatever the fuck it is we got.

That would be awesome, however, bending has become a part of economic and technological advancements, so taking it away would make them have to find new methods of producing electricity and stuff like that.

Yeah,while I can agree it would've been better for him to be a real energy bender ,I believe he could've been used in discovering the art itself, and it's role in ancient society.

Right, nobody's saying that Amon is a textbook communist any more than Kuvira is a textbook fascist. There is no Marx or Mussolini in the LOK world so therefore neither ideology can exist. But Amon's ideology is quite similar to the basic premise of communism, and Tarrlok's crackdown on the Equalists is an obvious parallel to Mussolini and Hitler's crackdown on the communists. You also have to take into account the fact that communism was a global movement that was quite popular in the early 1900s (roughly when LOK takes place). I have a problem with how people are so quick to write off the Amon-communism parallels because it's clear that they exist.

@ナノ人 Well, it makes sense in ANY world when you have established differences in people. It's OTHERING, and it's always done, just in different ways.

While Amon did want to do away with the hierarchy that places benders above non-benders, his use of bending shows he wanted to create a different hierarchy, with him at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Then there is the part where he wasn't trying to move towards a stateless society or remove all hierarchies, such as wealth and ability hierarchies. To call him an anarchist is...a stretch at best.

thats a pretty cool masters to have

@@casteanpreswyn7528 yes, making him more like a fascist

He's a revolutionary liberal. He wants to get rid of a hereditary aristocracy who are viewed as impure due to that inheritance (in our world inbreeding) and he wants to get rid of that social privilege (having the right to be represented in the council for example) that defines them as a minority and then he has a belief that equality is essentially the highest goal in a post-aristocratic society. These ideas are all shared with french revolutionaries. Hell, it was the rich non-aristocrats who started the revolution and who were then turned on for having too many of the indicators of the aristocratic lifestyle, just as Amon, for also having the indicator of this world's aristocracy (bending) is soon abandoned after they realise that he shares this. I want to add that I don't think the writers tried to represent this ideology, they just inserted almost all the same themes as it had. Some of it is easier to compare with communism, as Amon being a bender may be better compared to Lenin being bourgeois

The american left thinks anyone who osnt them is a commie

Faschism = Communism + Nationalism.

Imo, Amon is an egalitarian : everyone should have the same outcome regardless of their individuality. If you add the populist rhetoric that wanna look like a civil right movement but is just regressing society, you kinda get the woke movement.

@@Dark_Peace “woke” go back to 2016 lmao