The scariest feeling I can imagine is knowing you’re about to die but have it be sudden and with little to no warning. Being old and dying on your death bed is one thing but for it to be sudden has to be frightening and heartbreaking. May everyone lost rest in peace.
I think we need to talk about the fact that the flight crew weren't being paid enough and had to resort to getting second jobs... That on its own is kind of a red flag.
I would think that that would be the norm now with inflation as high as it is. To stay competitive it seems like the individual airlines would have no choice. They are always cutting corners to reduce fares & eliminate any amenities that might push the cost up. No more free Beer Nuts etc - nowadays bring them from home if you want them.😢😅
I’ve seen the starting salaries of BA and Virgin Atlantic cabin crew. I couldn’t rent a storage room with this money. Particularly not in London. I assume they all have a second method of earning income.
I would consider them to be survivors. Out of pure chance they did not perish, but all of the people who were on the plane they were supposed to be on did. If you look up survivors guilt, some of the examples listed include Waylon Jennings giving up his seat on Buddy Holly’s ill fated plane and a Liverpool fan who gave his football ticket to a friend who went on to die at the match. Basically, you “survive” but feel guilty that someone else died. I don’t think you need to have physically been in the accident or scenario of death in order to feel responsible for it. (Although that is also a valid scenario)
@@superpotterfan7435 Thank You! You saved me the trouble of researching it myself because I felt pretty confident that it was certainly a possibility for them.
What I find most unbelievable is the total lack of airmanship displayed by the captain! No idea of airspeed, no idea of engine performance, clearly oblivious to what his instruments were telling him and if these serious mistakes weren’t enough then takes totally inappropriate action to recover from an imminent stall. Unbelievable!
Right?!?! How is the FO the only one to figure out they were in a stall? Wasn’t the violently shaking stick in his hands a pretty good clue?! I’ve never flown a plane and I found myself screaming “push the nose down” at the tv. 🤦🏻♂️
To get out of a stall. Point the aircraft downwards. That will give airflow to the wings. Then level up. The captain kept the nose up. Not enough airflow to the engine turbines. But I understand. He wasn't properly trained. Sad
@@tanan616 question do you point it all the way down like a dive then level off ..or just down enough to get air flow to wings..never flown a plane but I like watching these videos never knew planes were this interesting
Honestly it’s sad how often the first officer correctly identifies what they actually need to do, but the fear of punishment from their superiors keeps them from doing so.
Usually when I watch these, I don't have an idea what happened until later in the episode. This one was pretty obvious early on, even during the preview. When the crew radios that their engines were flamed out, you can actually hear the engines very loudly in the recording. And even though the recording is a reenactment, they usually seem to keep it true to form of the original CVR. So how can it be an engine flameout when you still hear them going? It was also clear from early on, almost from takeoff, that the first officer knew what he was doing way more than the captain did. At the end they were talking about how the first officer didn't speak up, but he did, imho. He told the captain to turn the anti-ice back on, he told the captain exactly what was happening as they fell, and the captain didn't listen to him. They'd likely have all lived if he listened to the pilot who knew better, even though he was younger. It's so sad thinking what all the people on that plane went through in those last 90 seconds.
Not sure if you complain that they spoiled the ending or happy they gave you enough clues to get it right with your experience. But i think they are not commenting his action to speak up, but to take control when the Captain didnt do his job. He had a clear 1-2 minutes to take control and push nose down. A human brain under stress and confusion can cause inability to take in new information. So taking over was the only way to do when he didnt respond after getting told its a stall, which means, out the nose down and engines to max right now
Again pulling back on the stick? What is with that trend for the pilots to pull back on their sticks ? At least 5 accidents happened when the pilots did that.
I know right, I could undertstand them trying to pull back if they were a hundred feet off the ground and sheer panic, but pulling back on the stick at 29,000 feet all the way to the ground is just stupidity and lack of training
I lost count of how many aerodynamic stalls occurred in civil aviation where the pilots didn't do the right thing which is to push the nose down And if you think this accident was caused by a failing airline, untrained pilots in a 3rd world country ,think again, Air France flight 447 went down in almost similar circumstances, by pullin that dammed stick back during a stall...
they stalled and had improper readings from both sides due to icing, then complicated by the fact that both pilots were fighting the controls in an airbus that uses a computer to manage inputs.
Training is a big part of that. Developing a sense of the energy state and how planes fly intiutively takes time and effort. The AF447 relief pilots went from flight school to flying fully automated jets with only a few dozen hours in a small plane where control is completely manual. Training was a factor in this tragedy too as an airline in financial distress did not place pilot training anywhere near the top of their budget concerns. Modern airmanship needs to include CRM and also upset recovery, what to do when the flight is in an abnormal state.
447 was a perfect example of why pilots should be trained how to fly rather than how to turn on the autopilot. Those clowns had no idea what they were doing, they were so reliant on the Airbus’ automation to get them where they were going. It was devastating to watch the Captain, I felt so bad for him. As soon as he scanned the cockpit and acclimated himself he knew what was wrong but the pilot flying still couldn’t comprehend it even as they plunged into the ocean.
In an emergency, it takes time for Spanish pilots to finish praying to all their patron saints and start reacting. I would rather fly Indian air. All they say is holy cow and react.
@@samuelkundael3503 well if they were of the Catholic Apocalypyian faith then that may explain why they hit the ground. Matthew 10:34 34 'Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me'.
You know it's time to leave the company when they can't even afford the freaking fuel for the flight 🤷♀It's devastating by itself for working folks to be treated like that, having their physical and mental ressources completely depleted. When I'm exhausted I can't even tell left from right, let alone manage any type of vehicle. So many mistakes are made when we're burnt out.
This was very educational. I pound my daughter about situational awareness. She is not in airlines, she's my daughter and needs to be aware, EVERYWHERE Thanks
What really bothers me about flying is what we, as passengers, don't know about the airline's financial situation, it's maintenance practices and the other aspects which can determine whether or not we get to our destination safely or whether or not we may be killed. It's really hard to put total trust in them. I choose to drive when I can. At least I feel more in charge of my own vehicle and my destiny
I frequently give them a pass on those mistakes. Especially early on they used the same mock up aircraft cabin interior with 3 x 3 seating for planes that would be 2 x 3 or 2 x 2 or widebody.
Yes, but that is counter-intuitive; we're falling, so let's dive. It's the reason you have to train for things, so that when bad things happen, you don't revert to natural instincts, but your training.
The human brain is a curious thing you could spend your entire career training for Such an event but if god forbid something actually happens all logic goes out the window
Not an expert here, but when you get stick shaker at 31000 ft, rule of thump is to put the nose down to pick up speed, then pull up and level off the plane, you still have plenty of altitude.. Passenger planes with rear engines have their center of mass moved toward the back, that makes the plane tend to pitch up specially when overloaded.
has less to do with speed than the angle of attack of the relative air flowing over the wings. IMO the plane was already severly iced up when the capt asked for the deice to be turned off.... DUH, its -14 outside, we already have ice and were turning it off? Good luck with that.
@@aceofwaters It wasn't iced up. If it had been they would have stalled much sooner. There was only a light ice buildup when FO asked for deicing to be reengaged and the plane had a few minutes to get heat to the wings before the airspeed dropped.
@@aceofwaters- Pay attention, dude. at 26:37, you can watch the investigators saying that ice wasn't formed because the de-icing was on, rerouting part of the engine exhaust into the wings, causing the heavy plane to slow down. In this type of aircraft with engine mounted on the back, it has a tendency to pitch up specially;y when overloaded.
A tired and panicked pilot. The frontal cortex, with all the information needed to fix the problem, is shutoff and the fear part of the brain sees a bear to fight. That part of the brain is saying FIGHTFIGHTFIGHTDONTTHINKFIGHT!!! Our brains were evolved to live in the wild and fight monsters and strangers to the death. We are barely evolved to live in units with 100-120 people called villages. It's like running the most complex computer systems on top of MS-DOS and when our brain's system fails it reverts to its primitive programming.
Meanwhile the FO just sits in his seat, watching the captain crash the plane. Does not shout to put the nose down, does not attempt to do so himself. Both pilots are incompetent.
I traveled to Caracas from NYC dozens of times in the 1980’s. Avensa and Viasa were the two Venezuelan carriers. One Viasa pilot couldn’t figure out why his planes would often handle roughly, and he used more fuel than he should have. One day, with the plane fully loaded, passengers aboard and ready to depart, he ordered everyone off the plane and a reweighing of the baggage. Baggage was twice as heavy as listed in his manifest/preflight info. Turns out the girls at the check-in counters were taking bribes and not charging passengers for their overweight luggage. Pilot reported it, and he was fired. This is how things work in Venezuela!
@@yamato6114 It’s basically the same thing as shown in this video: Through either corruption or incompetence, airlines from certain countries simply AREN’T safe. It’s not racism or xenophobia. It’s simply fact.
Unfortunately in the aviation industry anywhere in the world, if you're going to be a whistleblower or report something unsafe with good intentions and of course legally as encouraged by airlines' protocols during training, be prepared to either suffer severe professional consequences or never work in the aviation field again. This reality is very sad and dangerous.
I should be a pilot. After watching enough of these videos, even I know to push the nose down to gain speed and recover from a stall. When your nose is high, it increases drag and slows your speed. You definitely don't want to pull the nose up.
I have never flown on an airplane in my life & videos like these don’t make it any better! A few years back I had business in Las Vegas & instead of flying I took the bus which took 2.5 days lol it was so crazy that I had to leave 2 days before my friends so I could meet them there & when I left they were already home while I still had 2 days left to get home lol I really wanna fly one day though ✈️
😫took my 1st one two years ago I was scared to death😭😭planes are much bigger in person to me..takeoff was the scariest part🙏🏾since then I’m more comfortable and have flown 3 more times I still get nervous and your right watching these video won’t help my next flight🤣
Brains can get confused that familiarity means safety. Even knowing flying is safer than driving, it can be hard to overcome the feeling that familiar driving is the safer choice. Just remember: almost every crash you see here makes your current flight safer!
I'm getting worried at the amount of professional pilots who should know better but still reflexively pull up the nose during a stall.. It's deeply unsettling... This said, hearing that this poor captain had to work besides his main job, it explains a lot.
I can't imagine what those people went through in the last moments of their lives which was 3 minutes. Mothers are holding their kids and making sure they are safe and trying to keep them calm as much as they could.
I would never ever fly on a Venezuelan airline they have some of the worst records and their plane is not updated on maintenance and their pilots is not trained fully.
As a Venezuelan, I flew in many airlines in the country and you’re right, most of them are in a bad condition, they use planes from the 80s or 90s, but one exception is Rutaca Airlines, right now is a safe and reliable airline to fly over Venezuela, this airline despite using 737-200 or 300 and MD-80, they are very clean, comfortable and well maintained.
@@emmettturner9452 that is out of the question, I know that West Caribbean was a Colombian airliner but the pilots of this airline were not prepared for this situation because West Caribbean’s pilots training was very poor and the airline didn’t pay many pilots and crew, among them was captain Ospina.
I know very little about flying, but I know from watching these videos that if the stick starts shaking you push the thing forward to gain air speed and keep from stalling.
I’m not a pilot and even I know the stick shaking means that there’s an imminent stall that’s about to happen, yet the pilot thought the engines flamed out. What….
The amount of panic these captains faced had to have been paralyzing. In that stall from that altitude they had PLENTY of time to recover. All one of them had to do was push the nose over and gain some airspeed and immediately their problem is solved. But it’s never that simple when panic sets in and you start freaking out and thinking you’re about to die. So instead of easily recovering from this stall, they instead did the opposite of what they needed to do and thus quite literally fell from the sky like a leaf falling from a tree. Falling almost straight down belly first. It’s so sad because a lot of these accidents are caused by something the pilots might not be able to fix. Maybe a boot breaks in the elevator like in Alaska airlines flight that crashed into pacific or maybe hydraulics fail after some malfunction like the Sioux City accident in those cases the planes were basically unfliable but in this case it was such a simple fix and instead we have all these lives lost. So so sad
Flight level 330 should not have been too high for an MD92. Engine anti ice was off? This may be a clue. Halfway through the video, it will be revealed?
It's obvious, the crash was the result of the captain working those bartending shifts. I think that bar should be investigated......that's where it all starts.
As an American, I feel blessed and grateful to live in the birthplace of motor vehicles and aviation. The tropical airlines have absolutely horrifying practices. A 21-yr-old copilot, airline can't afford the fuel, can't afford to pay their pilots, and training is barely enough to keep planes in the air. When the autopilot turns off, and things get real, you're dead. It's the same pattern over and over. Imagine you are from a country where you have no choice but to use these airlines. Absolute nightmare. Thank you God/Universe that I was so lucky. Because most are not. Stay safe.
A story of incompetence - aviate, navigate, communicate. What can ATC do? The first officer was a wimp, he should have taken control and reacted to the stick shaker when he realized there was a stall.
A quick glance at the control panel should've alerted the captain to the plane's angle of attack. Even his co-pilot told him it was a stall. This is a freaking rookie error.
Siloed architects and engineers? Seems logical one group would consult with the other about the effect of power dips and draws by other systems. That scenario appears in various situations all across the spectrum. If we see lights dim at home when the fridge kicks in or some other power hungry appliance starts, we know it’s time to do something about the power supply. Same principle. There are so incredibly many systems involved in these aircraft it’s a miracle there aren’t more situations. And pilots are expected to be aware of each and every possibility so they can react in a split second. God love them.
"Rolled back" isn't a common term, to my knowledge, at least in the US. From the context in which it is used here, it seems it means something like the engine power was decreased or shut down.I also think pushing the yoke forward would have nosed the plane down---OR am I misunderstanding these things. Any clarification would be really appreciated. How did they know to only add about 7,000 pounds of weight to the overall weight of the plane? That's only three and a half tons. Seems this was a pretty conservative estimate for re-calculating the possible cause or not of the disaster. Very interesting, complex series of events/actions in a rapidly changing circumstances. Fascinating how the technicians and investigators pieced this together.
Yep, happened with JAL123... It's believed there were survivors at first but because the Japanese govt refused help from foreigners, they ended up perishing too. 🤦♀
It's more than likely the configuration of those DC-9s, MD 8x etc and other T-tailed aircrafts don't help in this situation because those airframes are prone to *deep stall* as the 2014 Air Algérie flight 5017 crash in the desert showed. Too much angle with the nose up, and not only the engines lack air to work properly, but also the wings mask aerodynamically the stabilizer which prevents the pilots from controlling the attitude of the aircraft. In this case the only maneuver that can save the flight is to increase bank angle on one side to drag the nose down.
The airline was grounded, the went bankrupt after this, that means all the pilots, co pilots, flight attendants and mechanics didnt get their 6 months of owed salary
At (too) high angle of attack ice may form at the underside of the wings behind the heated leading edge. If that happens a stall will be much more likely. As every pilot knows the only action to effect recovery will be pushing the control column forward. This crew were underpaid, insufficiently trained and possibly fatigued. Poor souls
One of the first things that you learn as a pilot is that if you get a stall warning, you push the nose down. That is why the plane stalled and crashed. Even with the previous actions, a competent crew would have prevented the accident. Yes, even an incompetent crew might be able to fly in perfect conditions, but that is not an excuse.
Q: how do you stall at perfectly level flight at 31000? A: the relative air over the wing is comprised due to the already built up ice, disrupting the airflow. Q: why did that captain ask to turn off the de-ice? A. Hes more concerned with gain power from turning it off and climbing, than the fact its -14 outside with already likely built up ice. The engines were NOT flamed out. Power was reduced by the autothrottle or auto mach when the speed when up as the plane was gaining a bit of speed when descending. Either that OR they got the engines back going during the descent.
imagine being a pilot and not getting paid for SIX MONTHS. That alone is a recipe for disaster, but that's what you can expect from a 3rd world country.
It sounds like his “second jobs” was really his “only job”. Having not been paid for 6 mos flying is now a hobby. I can’t believe any of the crew even bothered showing up.
Imagine figuring out what's wrong and talking to the Air traffic controllers. When there was a flight engineer we had accidents but aviation industry took them out and keeps trying to cut corners for profits. Maybe people should fly less and force these companies to take action and with the governments
