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The Zodaic Theory could be still true in a way in that sense Fuecoco seems to be from the Aztec Zodiac, the fire starters as a whole could be a part of any Zodiac Calander that currently exists.
Do you even know the difference between semi.aquatic animals and animals that can swim? Like, it's not because a cat doesn't instataneously die after touching water like a house fly that it is amphibious
If i want to fight for the fire Chinese theory, Crocodile could 100% rep the snake being you know A LIZARD. But these are just theories to me, basic guidelines~ its okay to bend them from time to time!
My personal theory for what all the starters are based on is this. All the grass one are based on plants. All the fire ones are based on fire. And all the water ones are based on water
I believed in the Zodiac theory for a while, and saw the other two/three as charming coincidences. But I never expected every Fakemon starter to have to follow it, and when Fuecoco was revealed, I just kinda said, "Oh, guess that's not a thing." The fact that people are still trying to cling to it confuses me, frankly, but I guess I've tried to defend far more outlandish ideas in the past, so I can't look too harshly on people.
As someone who also used to defend the theories, it's sunk cost fallacy - they've spent so long doing it that abandoning it now would make it seem like it was all for nothing (when in fact it would be way nicer for discussion!)
The fact that one starter is not a Zoliac does not mean that the game freak was not inspired by the calendar from the very beginning. They might just change their mind over time
Apparently Pokémon Cloud and Soil doesn’t care about it, but the region required a Fire sheep starter. I hear their next region might have a bug for a fire starter
Avians are theorised to have evolved from reptiles so all avian staters are reptiles Reptiles are theorised to have evolved from amphibians so all reptile starters are amphibians Amphibians = frog Frog starters = bull frog = oxen All starters are mammals Pokemon lay eggs All Pokemon can be tied to weapons All starters are semi-aquatic egg laying mammals of action Every starter is perry the platypus
Well, there was also Baurubatrachus and other extinct frogs, so all you get is not Beelzebufo. I remember hearing that the grass starters were moving through evolutionary history. But, that never worked either.
Although I don't believe in the Extinct Grass Starter theory, if I did, I would say that Venusaur is based on a Temnospondyl (an extinct group of amphibians described in the late 19th century)
@@Going4Broke2528 "Saur" is a part of the English translation, Venusaur's name in the original Japanese text when translated to English is literally just "Mysterious Flower"
I remember hearing the starter theories in gen 6 and thinking they were neat, but only really thought it worked for the first five. And then gen 7 came along and i figured it was stupid because "why would gamefreak limit themselves like that? they'd run out of zodiac signs for the fire types eventually..."
to be honest retreading ideas would eventually get boring so maybe it shouldn't be a thing? just how i think about it. the starters most of the time have been limited to fire, grass, and water. except for a few exceptions. why would they intentionally limit their creativity further?
Im not really into any of these theory but imagen if all those theory are actually true but only at the generation where Ash is the Mc in anime and now a new theory will be out
@@roboraptorwolf9726 It’s a project I am planning to do one day I have just been doing the designs in my notebook to make some cool Pokemon and one of the evolution lines involves Valstrax and my water starter starts off as a fish with feet then becomes a gore Magala lookalike then finally evolves into a Shagaru Magala form even though I have a dragon eevolution that’s a Shagaru Magala lookalike.
"If the Pokemon Company and Game Freak are able to express their creativity however they want, then the rest of us should be, too." The lesson we all needed to hear,. Amen.
I mean that's a bold thing to say about a company that up until LAST YEAR exclusively released clones of the previous game with one (1) new battle mechanic that was removed before each new game.
Out of these, I feel like the "Water starters gotta be semi-aquatic" feels like the only one that might be true, but, Mudkip kinda throws a bit of a wrench in that one, considering Axolotls are actually fully aquatic (unless you force them to grow up). I guess Mudskippers aren't, tho.
The reason people were against the idea of Fennikin being a dog is because foxes are very unique animals yes they’re classified as canines but they also share a lot of personality and behavior treats from felines I’ve even read that some scientists are asking to have a separate group for foxes because of this
@@nashawnlivingston2965 The thing on the Zodiac is a domestic dog though. While Domestic Dogs and Fennec Foxes share common ancestory, they actually aren't directly related, as the Domestic Dox is in the Canini subfamily and Foxes are in the Vulpini subfamily. So no, they aren't even in the same family either.
@@nickdentoom1173 that’s actually a common misconception; both dogs and foxes are part of the family Canidae aka the dog family. Canini (dog like canines) and Vulpini (Fox like canines) are merely tribes within the *subfamily* Caninae (subfamily and family are not the same thing). All living canids are in the same subfamily Caninae and therefore are all considered canine. They separate after subfamily. In the same way, big cats actually aren’t feline; they’re pantherine (TLDR; yes, dogs and foxes are in both the same family and subfamily, you were simply referring to their “tribe”)
If you think about it, it doesn’t really make sense to call canines “dogs” as dogs literally came from wolves… It’s like calling apes humans because we evolved from apes. Sooo wouldn’t it make more sense to call it wolves (even if they are more so distant cousins to dogs)?
@@deadbedspread in fact, here's an even further stretch- it's a fighting type, and its dex entry states it could send a truck flying if it ran into it. Therefore, the horse chesnut-knight-creature is a battering ram.
@@MidnightCapricorn2696he's the Juggernaut b*tch! (Please don't get mad at me I wasn't calling you a b*tch I was just referencing a line from the 3rd X-men movie.)
@@deadbedspread A shield being a weapon isn't a stretch in the slightest. You get some guy with a buckler, and some guy with nunchaku and the nunchaku guy has his skull divided into 50 pieces in like 8 seconds before keeling over dead from brain damage.
@@thepsychobear2362 He's not saying a shield as a weapon is a stretch, he's saying you can stretch the weapons theory to include even more non-water starters
I hope and glad that we are breaking away from those theories and such, gives and adds more creative for anyone tbh, also you could lump in any of the non-starter Pokémon into those theories while you are at it, lol
Your transition skills are unparalleled 😂 I never would have guessed there was one lol I really appreciate this video and you talking about these design theories. It’s cool to see someone tackling them in such a way that lets people follow the theories if they want or reject them if need be. I appreciate your work! Keep creating!
@@deadbedspread It was well worth the time and effort! It’s cool to see someone who gives their videos all they’ve got. It’s inspiring! I didn’t think you were ranting too bad lol, I think the theories are good starting points for beginners (like myself) but they shouldn’t be absolute truths that must be followed to the letter or else lol. I really appreciate your work, man!
Personally, I believe that you can make starter pokemon however you want. You can follow these theories, not follow these theories or heck, maybe make your own unique theories regarding your starters. Why not switch the theories around like having the grass starter based on a weapon, the fire starter based on a prehistoric creature and the water starter based on an animal from the chinese zodiac. That way you can have repeats with the weapons, extinct species and chinese zodiac but, it's for different starters with different concepts. I feel like I was really holding onto these theories being correct for the longest time but, as you said with the Paldea starters, yeah they're all a stretch to say the very least. GameFreak likely picked these starters because they thought of cool concepts, not because "Oh Meowscarada is the iberian Lynx, Skeledirge is a snake/bull/horse etc, and Quaquaval is the chakram weapon." Bottom line, make starters whatever way you want. If people complain, that's their problem not yours.
Classic based SMG comment 😎 Funny you mention swapping the theories to different types, I've been seeing that pop up more and more recently - best example I can think of is ReomaArt (best Grass starter Fakemon I've seen in a loooong time!) Imagining a boardroom of executives agreeing on the new starters because of those aforementioned 'rules' makes it sound all the more ludicrous! Absolutely, end of the day, they are YOUR Fakemon, almost like how actual Pokemon are Game Freaks - no one can say what they are and are not!
@@deadbedspread Exactly. And yes, ReomaArts Grass Starter Frogue is awesome. Honestly forgot he actually did this idea until you mentioned it. I had an idea for a fire starter based on a bear and it was combined with cooking because the bear constellations "aka the big dipper" looked like saucepans and I thought that would be fun to do but, I always gave up on that idea because "tHe BeAr IsNt iN tHe cHiNeSe ZoDiAc." I'm not an artist, hell i'm pretty medicore when it comes to drawing in general but, I do still love coming up with fakemon ideas in my head. So, when I kept seeing people say "you have to follow these theories in order to be taken seriously" it was soul crushing. I'm so glad you made this video though as when you say it all aloud, yeah the theories for the most part are a stretch
I feel like the reason Cyndaquil is called the "mouse Pokemon" is probably because of how Japanese uses the word ネズミ (nezumi) or a variation of it to refer to any rodent or any small, vaguely mouse shaped mammal such as shrews, hedgehogs or possums. This word "ネズミ" translates to both mouse or rat in English. Japanese equates many animals we consider to be separate like alligators and crocodiles (both ワニ) or apes and monkeys (both サル).
Man. I appreciate this. The "it has to be x or it doesn't count" has been driving me nuts for a long time, as you well know. This was a super fun way to call out the bs for what it is. What a ride.
Well there's still one theory that have yet to be proven wrong for the Water Starter Theory and it's that all Water Starters are based on animals that are semi-aquatic. Them being weapons do make sense but I never ride on that theory.
@@Miguel92398 technically, that theory has also been proved wrong since gen 1. Even though squirtle and wartortle are obviously turtles, blastoise is more of a tortoise, which as stated in the video, cannot swim at all. So by technicality, it can be proven wrong, but it really depends on if you take its name at face value
@@mikomakowski7907 English, yea. But the game is Japanese and Japanese words still classifies Blastoise as a turtle (well kame is both described turtle and tortoise but the fact that Blastoise can go into water and is a water type just points him more of a turtle than a tortoise) Its design is more turtle than tortoise if you ask me.
I just like the idea that instead of the different types of starters following some cohesive pattern across each generation, the starter trio of each generation just follows their own theme (ex: Gen 9 starters based on performers, Gen 8 starters based on entertainment, gen 1 starters are all reptile/amphibian animals)
@@rockincradilyyyy8489 in rpgs, fighter stands for a martial artist with evasion as its defensive option greninja fits it more since ninjas are ultimately a combination of rogue and fighter, chestnaught real class would be a warrior/knight which are physical and often serves as the tank role which chestnaught clearly is
Gen 8 starters aren't simply "entertainment", they're specifically based on British cultural icons. Remember, Galar is based on Great Britain. Rillaboom is based on heavy metal drummers, complete with a big bushy hairdo, and Britain is known for being the birthplace of heavy metal. (It also may be based on a famous British commercial of a gorilla playing the drums, or even the band Gorillaz, which is from the UK.) Cinderace is, of course, a soccer/football player, and Britain has a very strong and intense culture surrounding that sport. Brits love football so much that they'll start fights over their favorite teams and make up songs about the opposing players' criminal charges. And Inteleon is very much inspired by James Bond, a famous British literary and film character. The James Bond books were written by a British author and, with the exception of Pierce Brosnan, every actor playing him has been from the UK as well.
This was a great video! I, too, am a fakemon artist and recently felt pressured into making my water starter into a weapon. It turned out OK, but it wasn't quite what I had in mind.
@@rafethomas9126 for example: "🤓hey make a water nuclear missile and name it some dumb shit like bomby or something like that 🤓". that is not meant to poke fun at the fakemon artists, its meant to make fun of the theorists
@Marx hey, if someone wants to make Bomby, go for it. Hell, I'll probably give it a like. Maybe just don't pressure others into following these "standards".
The Fennekin deniers always made absolutely no sense to me so thanks for pointing that out! Also DUDE this has definitely made me rethink design tropes in Pokemon.
Next they'll be gatekeeping based on the specific breed of dog - Gen 9 completely snapped me out of what I thought I knew, so glad I could share the realisation!
@PragMagik to some degree I do agree with Fennekin being the dog, but compared to other canines fennec foxes are not very dog like. Fennec foxes in my opinion look a lot like chihuahuas, but I don’t mean any harm because I’m talking about a digital fox. Still adore your content.
Actually, it's based on actual folklore treating foxes and dogs very differently. In addition, calling Fennekin a dog is cheating because it is highly improbable that the Jade Emperor didn't invite Fox. As if _that_ wasn't enough, Zodiac conspiracists label Litten a tiger. Cat lost solely because Rat cheated.
@@bubbykins4864 Not necessarily though if you read or even watched the new Fruits Basket anime the cat was the technical first since it went to the Jade Emperor/God and the JE/G sent invitations to the others. So the cat could have been the founder of the whole Zodiac Party
I mean, while Fennekin is in the Canid family, the Dog on the Zodiac is a domestic one. So Fennekin doesn't count, because it isn't a domestic dog. Cyndaquil being called the Fire Mouse Pokemon in the Pokedex, i wouldn't put much thought into either, considering the same is true for both Rattata/Raticate and Sandshrew. Neither of them are mice (Sandshrew is based on a shrew and Armadillo, which ain't even rodents).
Also, the animal that CyndaQUIL is based on is called the "needle-mouse" in Japanese. And since CyndaQUIL has fire instead of QUILS, the name replaces QUILS with a fire related word for the pokedex.
Funnily enough, Skeledirge could legitimately be considered a second dragon, because there are numerous dragon-like creatures in Iberian folklore that may have been inspired by crocodilians, and there’s a mosaic art piece by Antoni Gaudí called “El Drac”, which literally means “The Dragon”
I believed in the Fire Zodiac theory up until around Gen 7. By that point, Fennekin from the previous gen being the Dog was already pretty dubious for some. So while the tabby-esque Litten evolving into the Tiger seemed extremely obvious (especially when you realise the forehead cross ‡ symbol is a very common visual shorthand for the forehead stripes in Japanese cartoon illustrations of tigers), it was still kinda uncertain. Once Scorbunny debuted and people started calling it the Rabbit of the Zodiac, I was already pretty tired of so many people shoving the theory down others' throats as if it were gospel. Plus I was having ideas for my own fakemon stuff at the time and wanted to defy this "theory" by choosing a non-Zodiac animal for my Fire starter BOY am I glad Fuecoco exists. I still don't like it compared to the other two though lmao
My issue was with Cyndaquil being the "rat" never worked for me. Hedgehog in Japanese apparently translates to needle mouse. So, there is no reason to assume because it is called the fire mouse pokemon it is a mouse. It's Japanese name may be inspired by the Japanese word for porcupine. And its evolved forms aren't not even based on rodents. Also, Charizard being the only member of its line that says dragon because didn't work for me. Like the first two in line were done based solely off ONE member of their family. The rest all had the entire line as evidence. It was always weak to me. Like it was an interesting thought experiment but people took it way too literally for me.
It still puzzles me how using a fox to represent the dog sign seems less acceptable to some than using an echidna-turned-badger to represent the rat sign. If you ask me, the earlier gen 'mons seem the most dubious (with fuecoco being a clear late-gen outlier).
End of the day what really bothered me about all of these theories the fact that it’s limiting creativity you have no idea how many times I’ve seen interesting projects on Instagram and then gets turned off because they try to shoe in the zodiac stater when there’s much better choices out there
I do think Decidueye draws partial inspiration from the stilt owl but that’s more to fit with themes of the Alola region, not some “grass starters equal x” theme. The starter trios tend to have some themes tying them together, but it’s more a theme between that trio than a theme across that starter type. And it usually ties into their region’s general, overall themes as a whole.
I just never got any of these. Grass: ok, this one kinda makes kinda sense, but eh... I thought Bulbasaur was just... a Frog. Water: a brass knuckle? For a Crocodile? Not something about their GIANT ASS SUPER JAWS? And a fan for Swampert? Eh? And how is Primarina a mace? Fire: Typhlosion. Just, Typhlosion. It's whole line. How the fuck is it a Mouse or Rat? Cyndaquil is an Echidna, which is more related to a Platypuss than a Mouse or Rat, and Quilava and Typhlosion are Honey Badgers, which are Mustelids. What's a Mustelid? Otters, Weasels, and Stoats. NONE OF THESE ARE RELATED TO MICE OR RATS. Also, yes, I just confirmed that there is canonically a water/fire type ancestor to both Samurott and Typhlosion. "What about it's catagory?" Pokemon Catagories aren't actually what animal they are. Sometimes they'll something like "it's a Shrew Pokemon" and it'll actually be a Pangolin.
I understand the grass & water themes of Extinct/Prehistoric Animals & Weapons. But I personally have a theory that all of the fire starters are based on mythology and Folklore as opposed to the zodiac. -Charizard: Western Dragon & Salamander myths -Typhlosion: Mujina (badger Yokai) (H-Typhlosion) is also is the Night Parade of 1000 demons) -Blaziken: Basan (Fire breathing chicken Yokai) or the Karura (Essentially a Phoenix friend of Garuda) -Infernape: Sun Wu Kong -Emboar: Zhu Baije (Pigsy) -Delphox: Kitsune and western depictions of witches. -Incineroar: Heracles (Both we’re super strong wrestlers & the guy choked an indestructible lion & wore its pelt for the rest of the myth: pretty close to a tiger pelt.) there are also were tigers from India but that’s a stretch in my opinion. -Cinderace: The white rabbit (Chinese myth) and the Hare of Inaba (Japanese myth) but there was also an Aztec legend about a rabbit being kicked/thrown at the moon so it could start moving. -Skeledirge: Coco/Cuca is a bogeyman equivalent in Spain & Portugal. Basically a crocodile looking at figure who kidnaps children at night. (There is also a The Mexican Calavera (the colored skulls) and the Calaca (the entire skeleton, usually the imagery of the dead in general) for inspiration, (Dia De los Muertos being the Mexican hybridization of local practices and All saints day, a Catholic holiday brought from Spain). Now I know the whole point of this video is to avoid gatekeeping they come on artists from having to stick to the previously established tropes: but I think it helps those who are stagnant on it to simply branch out from the trope by expanding upon it. Like you said everyone originally thought that the grass starters were all reptiles until GEN six when the extinct theory got traction. I just figured I’d share the connection I made with the fire starters. Since it helped with crearing more diverse starter concepts
By that stretch you can design literally anything because everything has a mythological counterpart. Lapras is nessie Ho-oh is literally named after the Japanese phoenix, lycanrock is a werewolf. Nearly every mon I can personally link back to a myth. Mythology is a great theme for a Pokémon, which is why MOST of them can be traced to mythology, but calling it a starter theme is like saying all starters have to be alive and have eyes.
@@folfelit Well I know but the theme for the other two starters are so vague as well. Pretty much anything alive today has had some form of a prehistoric ancestor, and pretty much anything on earth can swim or We have come up with so many ways to kill each other with weaponry over the centuries but they’re endless potential for those two, So One equally bag for the fire starters makes a lot of sense to me
The Zodiac Theory has been debunked for a while and no one has really noticed. This is because in the early version of Gold and Silver that was leaked, the Fire starter was (what I assume is) a bear, which isn't on the Zodiac. So this theory was never true, and has been debunked for a couples of years.
I like to imagine the scenario where they had to scrap the bear last minute to begin the chain of every Fire starter being a Zodiac animal, only for them to replace it with a shrew that evolves into a badger
@@deadbedspreadlol no the water starter of Johto was scrapped because it had a lot of similarities to Lapras and the Dragonite line whereas the fire starter line was scrapped because it wasn’t good enough the final evo looks like Arcanine
@PsyBlob It most probably isn't, but peoppe want a reason to "disprove" the theories so they just grab Cyndaquil and say that it isn't a rat or something like that
Even that sponsor segment was entertaining~ Another fantastic video from DBS! I'm a fan of the grass starter theory, but you totally proved that yes, animals evolve and ancestors go instict no matter the animal 😂 THANK YOU for talking about the Chinese zodiac theory lol, that one drives me up a wall. . . even though Fuecoco is a horse obvs 🙄🙃
For Decidueye it was easy to actually point out that it was clearly based off a Pueo, a Hawaiian owl. The Ghost type comes in because in Hawaiian myth they were physical forms of Ancestor Spirits.
The Water starters kind of need to be amphibious so they can have main characters actually use them in the anime. Think about how often Misty actually got to use Goldeen or Horsea. That's why they gave her Poliwag and Corsola in later seasons. Ash's Lapras was also pretty much only used as transport between islands, and would probably get zero screentime if he took it to Johto.
Mudkip and Sobble are obvious theory busters, as axolotls are fully aquatic unless you force them to metamorphose (the fact that they managed to make a fully aquatic animal viable for TV series use and humanization shows that they could make a fish starter Pokémon if, or likely when, they want to, they just haven't shown such desires yet), while both chameleons and basilisk lizards are fully terrestrial.
@@bubbykins4864 I thought Sobble was a chameleon? But yeah Mudkip does fit. I figured axolotls would come on land a good bit since they have legs. Though that could still have helped Mudkip, since I imagine it's easier to give something puppy legs if it already has legs to replace. That said, Cetottle is a fully terrestrial whale, so they could definitely make a fish with legs.
Yeah looking back those theories don’t really work especially since starters have a generation theme and not a overall theme, like for example gen 6 starters have a rpg classes theme and gen 7 starters have a circus theme, bobbs have a RU-vid short video about and a full video where he adds another starter to each gen based on the starter themes
@@tpfoxCastro yes like how gen 1 starters have a household pet theme and a period of history theme with charmander line being a lizard and middle ages, squirtle being a turtle and Morden era and bulbasaur being a frog and ancient times, i used gen 6 because they do only have 1 theme and i did think gen 7 had 1 theme but it has 2 being circus theme and classical literature, watch any of the 2 videos I mentioned to see the themes
I never bought into the zodiac theory. Every justification for the edge cases (and Typhlosion, who doesn't fit at all) felt like reductive thinking from people who knew nothing of the culture surrounding the zodiac being used.
I always felt this was more of an "I want to believe " kind of thing because thematic patterns are really cool but I do agree they can be restricting and people should get to design what they want, personally I love how nowadays they seem to come more packaged in themes like how chesnaugth, Delphox and greninja are based on rpg tropes.
I always took the Fire-starter zodiac and the extinct Grass-starter theories as not a 100% thing, but rather a part of possible inspirations when designing them, not self-imposed hard rules they must follow.
I didn't know about the other two theories. Maybe I heard about the Water type weaponry one once by in one ear out the other. Anyway onto the subject. I *hate* the Zodiac theory it's so annoying and for what? Cyndaquil is nowhere near a rat 🙄
My fire starter is a ghost, my water starter is a dunkleosteus, and my grass starter is a bush disguise. All 3 of these are fully unrelated to the 3 theories you mentioned coincidentally, so that’s nice!
As much as I used to defend the Fire Zodiac theory, I always conceded that there were two major flaws to it. 1. They would have run out of animals to use as basis for the designs. (The only animals of the Chinese Zodiac not yet used are the Ox, the Snake, the Goat, and the Horse) Which leads me into… 2. We already have fire horses with the Ponyta line. Unless they were to do something unique with a horse themed fire type starter line, such as using a mythical creature like the Centaur or the Pegasus, there’d be little reason to retread old ground like that.
To be fair, gen 1 had 2 fire-type fox pokémon, yet gen 6 still gave us the fennekin line. Not that I'm hoping for another fire horse line as starters, but it's not as if that sort of thing is unprecedented.
I'm so glad someone made this video, I'm tired of the instant pattern believers tryna make me think a flat reptile boi is a horse. I've been saying the "every animal that exists today had extinct relatives" point for so long, I'm so glad someone thought likewise aghhhh
Well, the only theory I currently believe is the "starter connection theory" where each starter trio has a shared theme. I have no idea if it is confirmed though Gen 1: Genetics/Dinosaurs Gen 2: Ancient creatures Gen 3: Unique adaptations Gen 4: Myths/Legends Gen 5: Civilizations Gen 6: (RPG) Classes Gen 7: Circus/Performance Gen 8: British Entertainment Gen 9: Triple Threat
0:12 I’d personally say that Hau and Nemona picked weaker starters because they wanted more of a challenge, Hop picked the weaker one because he is just really not smart
They actually pick the weaker starter now because It’s good gameplay design. A young kid is likely to use all the moves a pokemon has once. And by choosing the move that matches their type and being given some text from the rival, they immediately learn that there are type advantages, and do so in a reinforcing positive manner. Really good gameplay design in my opinion
I loved the Zodiac theory until Fuecoco was revealed. I was a little disappointed it wasn't a bull (cause it would have made so much sense given the region. why do you think Paldean Tauros blaze breed exist, hmmm?) I was also with the group of people who hoped it would evolve into a serpent of some kind. (I mean we already have a fish to an octopus!) But it is what it is and it's something of the past now. (for me at least, I don't know why people are cramming it in there still.)
I've always liked the theories but never held it to a "rule standard" if I was running into an artist block or an idea block I would use those as a form of inspiration but never gatekeep people for what they do. I do not follow the pokemon criteria when making fakemon because its what you think wprks for you
my favorite fun fact about the whole zodiac thing is that in the story of how the animals were assigned to the zodiac, there was a Cat involved who tried and failed to enter the running bc it was cheated by the Rat, thereby making Litten's presence in the theory a paradox
The chinese zodiac is probobly dead now, but it does irritate me when people pretend it was never a thing. Yeah gamefreak just happened to follow up a rooster with a monkey and then a boar, and a fox abd a tiger and a rabbit. But it's nor like it was some kind of rule they had to follow, if anything it was probobly something to use as inspiration, until the remaning animals became to difficult what they were worth.
This is an amazing video and such a refreshing opinion to see on it all. None of the gate-keeping and bullying about people's creations 'matching' Pokémon's style or theme's is okay. Let people make their dream pokemon and share their wonderful ideas without bias on how it 'should' look or work. Great video and thank you so much from someone actively working on their own region and fakemon designs this is super helpful to hear.
Thank you so much! Obviously there are still tips that people can provide to help a Fakemon look more convincing, but these 'rules' were never mandatory. Good luck with it, and you're welcome!
2:17 Birds are dinosaurs & thus reptiles & bulbasaur kinda looks like an amphibian though…I think they’re supposed to be a dicynodont, which is a proto mammal so uh….that theory was always wrong.
@@ARandomMinecraftVillagerunder the modern system of organism classification, organisms are grouped into monophyletic clades consisting of an ancestor, and all of said ancestors descendants. In order to construct a clade that contains all of the living traditional reptiles(lizards including snakes, turtles and crocodilians) birds must be included in the clade since they are the descendant of the last common ancestor of the clade, given crocodilians share a more recent common ancestor with birds then with any other reptile alive today, and turtles share a more recent common ancestor with the archosaurs(crocodilians and birds) then with the lepidosaurs(lizards including snakes).
This feels like a good wake up call for everyone in communication to be a bit more open minded about there through of Pokémon! (As honestly I fort the grass one made the most sense for while until now) Well done on making a fun an entertaining video I’m sure has open the minds of millions! and good to see you getting sponsors!
Or some of them could have been true for a number of gens but they just chose to stop because 25 years of following a cool but limiting rule were too constraining.
@PsyBlob the chinese zodiac doesn't have canid and inspiration for dragons, it has dog and dragon. If you try to make it fit you can make everything fit.
The Zodiac one was dumb in the first place. Chamander is NOT A BLOODY DRAGON!! Don't know how many times fans need to hear that it's a Salamander. Amazingly it got dumber when everyone was calling Fennekin a dog....*facepalm*
@@deadbedspread I agree, since when ducks and salamandras can walk on land, we all know that they are purely aquatic creatures! And don't even let me start talking about guns being weapons, that's just crazy
I can't believe how popular the Zodiac Theory is despite how wrong it is and how people try to cope and force puzzle pieces in the wrong slots and argue with other people about it with their weird mental gymnastics. They'll say "if it looks like a dragon, and smells like a dragon, Charizard is a dragon!" then turn around and gaslight people into thinking a crocodile Pokemon is a horse zodiac. No, Cyndaquil is not and will never be a rodent/rat despite the clues that lead to dead ends, and no, fennec foxes are NOT dogs. Show me a Lunar New Year card or decoration from a Dog Year that had foxes or wolves in them. The Zodiac theory should've been debunked waaay back with the Cyndaquil line but people really want to make this a thing for whatever reason.
i saw somebody saying that skeledirge represent the snake because "crocodile is a reptile and snake is also a reptile, so it count" CHARIZARD IS LITERALLY A REPTILE LIZARD, AND YET. IT REPRESENT THE DRAGON
While the whole Zodiac theory was just that, it made sense considering up until Gen 9, all Fire Starters did follow the design. Also, if people really want to stretch the Zodiac theory, the Mayan Zodiac has a crocodile :D
Let me just say at 5:08, you might be onto something about Delphox being based on a dire wolf. Foxes weren't around the same time dire wolves were. They evolved a few thousand years later.
The theories are actually still good if you aren’t overly stingy Grass arent just extinct animals and the like, but more ancient or vulnerable species. As Lynxes are endangered of becoming extinct and there’s also the extinct *Eurasian Lynx* Fire can be Zodiac if you expand beyond China as the Crocodile takes the place of some animals in the Mongolian Zodiac. So really you could more argue that the Fire Startsrs are MYTHICAL creatures over just the zodiac. Charizard is a Drake, Typhlosion is a volcano badger named after Typhon (a volcano creature), Blaziken is a type of fire bird, Infernape is Son Wukong, Emboar is Xu Baji/Pigsy, Delphox is both a sorcerer(ess) and a fire Fox, Inceniroar can be similar to a Rakshasha (a fire tiger), Cinderace is a hare which have many legends (heck it’s a typically cocky type so it could even be the Aesop Hare), and Skeledirge is similar to Coco (a Spanish demon that looks similar to a crocodile) and Day of the Dwad imagery. And water types being more weapon based makes sense if you go into how they fight. Their attacks feel more concentrated and their bodies tend to have weapons. Also Primarina having bombs is because their Aqua bombs are *signature moves*. And Quaqlaval is based on both a dance based combat style and using a giant spinning ring of death as its primary attack. Its more how they fight than just weapons as Swampert is more of a wrestler with its bulky shape. Theories evolve with things, it isn’t a ridgid law
*This is my opinion please don't take this personally* In my opinion, the fire type chinese zodiac theory is compleatly fanon. -The cyndaquil line are hedchoges not rats (i know the pokedex entry says fire rat but it still looks more like a hedchoge and pokedex entrys are usually untrue anyways) -The fennekin line are foxes not dogs because fox is literally in their names (i know foxes are close to dogs but their still diffirent) -The litten line are cats but incinaroars species might be a tiger cause stripes but idk, and there is no way the fuecoco line fits any of the chinese zodiac. -The fuecoco line are crocodiles, end of story. If the fire type starter chinese zodiac theory was true then we wouldn't have to cut corners, we wouldn't have to make to make any of the starters diffirent species. If the people who desinged the fire type starters to be the chinese zodiac then they would just make them the animals of the chinese zodiac, but again *thats my opinion. Please don't take this personally, don't limit your creativity!*
I feel the need to point out that Venusaur CAN'T be based on Beelzebufo because that fat friggin frog was described in 2008. Venusaur is just a generic fat dino frog with a flower, thas it.
I got 2 starter hypotheses; Every odd Gen grass starter is based off of a kink/fetish Every water starter is based off of a gay archetype I don’t have a funny one for the fire starters though. I mean meowscarada is literally the clussy Pokémon.
*Blastoise:* He has a pretty high ego and love to talk about how *powerfull* his *cannons* are, thats why he's the "selfish pokemon" *Feraligater:* He lived in a toxic conservative enviorment for almost all his life, but now he's an independent adult and just want to be happy and f*ck everything else, that's why croconaw has a caveman them *Swampert:* Eeeeeeehhhhhhhmmmmmmm... he's very beffy, but also a gober... i gess *Empoleon:* He's a king and he slays 💅 *Samurot:* Daddy *Greninja:* As a ninja, he's very devoted to everything he does, both with necessities and for people he really cares abt, if he has to do something, he will do anything for it to work, so much so that ash's greninja took a form out of his ass just do better in a fight they doesnt even win *Prinarina:* A pop-diva wannabe *Inteleon:* Straight up just a fruity mf *Quaquavel:* Wait all years for june to come soon just for the parades
IMPORTANT: Fire Zodiac theory isn't about pattern for starters, it's about Easter-eggs All evidences we see (including male alligators being called bulls) were at first coincidence, and later where changed to Easter-eggs. Chance that Gen 10 will have Snake, Horse, Sheep or Goat as fire starter still exist. I wouldn't call that pattern tho.
Seeing you bring up people saying that X species male name is x a name for a certain animal in the zodiac is reminding me of someone calling me stupid for thinking that Cyndaquil is based on hedgehog because it has quil in its name and thinking of the quills on a hedgehog therefore i thought it didn't match it but i still believe that cyndaquil is my little hedgehog
