The Poppy War Book Chat | R.F. Kuang 

don't feel bad about talking about the parts you didn't like a book!! I think you did a great job at remaining objective and brought up a lot of fair points!

The poppy war and the dragon republic have quickly become some of my all time favourite books! Also, when it comes to Rins choice to have her womb destroyed, I actually liked this. I am all for a strong female lead and I don’t think this took away from her character at all. She consistently makes hard choices to accomplish her goals and I think it makes sense for her character that she would do this.

I absolutely loved what Rin did to her body. War is about expediency and results, not making some ideological statement. The cold hard truth is that traits traditionally associated with masculinity are more conducive towards success in areas of life such as war. Obviously, plenty of girls have these traits too and therefore excel at these tasks. So it is not anti-feminist or whatever for a female character to have masculine characteristics. Rin's character simply shows that an individual's temperament and competence transcends gender.

As much as I totally loved the book, I absolutelyyyyy get where you're coming from with every point you brought up. I really enjoyed this book chat and the fact that you addressed things I didn't necessarily think about at the time. I very very rarely cry in books but in chapter 21 I believe when Venka is talking about what happened to her and the other girls in the "relaxation house" I was absolutely crushed.

The main problem i had with this book is that the main character’s satisfaction, and main motivation, is that she wanted acceptance from any authority structure that follows her, limited info, and changing emotions. I do like this book. I have a problem with the main character being inconsistent with her education. She wants and NEEDS authority, but at the same time, needs to stand up to authority to survive. I agree with her rage, but i agree with that her lack of method is childish. I really, really wish she learned from the failures from the people that came before her and became an ultimate leader that knows what she wants and knows the path from the failures of others.

Rin is not a heroine. She's a morally-gray character which explains why she do questionable things. Maybe the readers who hate/ don't understand Rin expects every MC to be the hero of the story: powerful and good. Rin is selfish and greedy. This much was clearly portrayed from the beginning. She's always doing things for her own interest and she's greedy for attention and praises from her teachers. Her greediness was amplified when she became aware of the Phoenix's presence. She wanted that power, and the Phoenix even made her want more. Altan was the same. He's not a good person. He's only living for revenge and he treated people around him as tools. And Rin has a very unhealthy fanaticism on Altan that she went with him on the Chuluu Korikh to free the former/God-driven shamans while turning a blind eye and denying the risks and consequences if they failed to tame those prisoners. Rin clearly does not care about her country. She's not trying to save her country, she's only for herself and the people she care about. Which is Altan, Nezha and Kitay because she got attached to them in some ways. Thus, I disagree with some of your reviews on the characters, especially on Rin because it seems you only evaluate under the category of "Good characters". And the reason was clearly stated in the book why she removed her womb: It's a problem to her training in Sinegard, and her only ultimate goal at the time was to pass the year and become an apprentice.

Having just finished this one I'm wondering if its actually more so a villain origin story of Rin, and in later books we'll follow the pov of another character trying to stop her super destructive revenge at all costs quest

My dad's a doctor and I actually asked about if such a thing had ever existed in regards to uterus removing potions and not to his medical knowledge

The meditating for weeks part may not be as exaggerated as one would think. We have read about sages from Hindu mythology capable of doing that. so yes, I think Kuang took inspiration from there.

I’m so glad you did this review, so much of what you said I was feeling I just didn’t know how to put in words. I wanted to love this book especially considering how much hype it got, but I just felt so meh when I finished it. Thank you!!

Lots to respond to so I'm just going to list them all below as I'm listening! - Rin's decision to sterilise herself is glossed over so quickly that it really highlights the tragic pacing issue that the book has, it's a real blink and you miss it moment that should have been explored a bit more deeply. - Likewise, the medical treatment to resolve this issue highlights how sloppy the world-building is in giving a sense of time and place. The rape of Nanking and the Second Sino-Japanese war happened around the 1930s. I genuinely couldn't tell if this story was meant to be in a modernised setting (it mentions 'armored columns' at one point) or if it was supposed to be more medieval in terms of technology. It's BADLY described. - The combat felt very... 'anime' a lot of the time, especially with how much violence they can just recover from. This happens so much later with what I term 'the magical boy squad'. It really undermines some of the more serious nature of the book. - The modernised speech annoyed me, but what annoyed me more was the tendency for scenes to end halfway through. Rin will be in an argument with someone and it will just cut away after her point without giving the other person a chance to retort. It was a cheap way to make Rin look smart in my opinion. - I think Kuang really kind of messed up the whole 'genocide' thing at the end. Yes, Rin annihilates a whole country full of people but it's hard to actually feel bad about that because literally every single person we meet from that country is a sadistic piece of shit so maybe that's for the best? The downright insane levels of brutality that we are told about and see from the Muganese makes it seem like a justified decision and the fact that nobody even seems bothered about it underlines that. Some points that you didn't touch on. - Jiang was absolutely ridiculous. I couldn't take him seriously at all considering he spent half the book making fart noises into his elbow. - The 'Magical boy squad' really snapped me out of the story. You've got this grim dark relatively realistic war story and then half way through you get a 13 year old explosives expert, some guy who can transform into a monkey and TWO super badass fire guys. It started to feel like Dynasty Warriors and really ruined the tone - Rin isn't really a strong character at all. After she gets into Sinegard she loses almost all agency she had in the story, she's just along for the ride of Altan and the magical boys, the entire story could happen if you took her out and put Altan there instead and it might actually have made it better. - The way that Kuang has chosen to turn this into a trilogy makes no sense to me. It's not about the Poppy War any more it's about the Magical Boys going up against the evil magical empress. It's such a strange direction to take this first story and I feel kind of lied to. I wanted a historical fantasy about warring nations, I got some of that but now the series is basically going to be about Dragon Ball Z fights as Gods battle it out? Meh This is a hella long comment so thanks for taking the time to read it, I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this book had a lot of weaknesses that other reviewers just seem to have missed!

I’m 3 years late but let me tell you. I used to raise pigs. If Rin was able to carry a full grown pig up a mountain she would be the buffest student in the whole world. 😂

About to pick this trilogy up circa 2023, lucky when local store had them in. Admit video's going back :). Heard a bit of the audiobook, yes its dark.

I liked the book but like many other people have said, it wasn't my favorite. I love the point that you brought up about Rin who was supposed to be a strong female character and then she "gets rid" of the thing that all females get. I didn't think of it that way and I do agree with you on that. The way the characters spoke did not bother me, it actually allowed me to get through it easier than if it was written in a more traditional language. I enjoyed the experience of reading it as a group though!

I absolutely loved the book. I loved part 1&2. Part 3 was very rushed and I don’t think flowed well and probably needed more time to work on. The whole book had minor character problems, and in part three those turned into major. But I loved it

I feel like the uterus-killing potion was only introduced so that she and Altan couldn’t be assigned the job of breeding more Speerlies. It was also weird because the book acted like her period experience was normal. Like, girl, if it’s that painful you probably have PCOS or something you need to deal with… that’s not just “something girls go through”! And yeah while reading about the war crimes I thought it was made just to be gross, and then I read in the back of the book that all of those crimes were real things from the actual real world war.

When Rin first got rid of her period, I leaned more toward that’s something her character would do. But after reading it, it kind of seems like a plot device just to make her the Speerly. Because now she can’t have children so she is the last one.

Hey! I love The Poppy War. I do agree that there was some exaggeration at the beginning, but I knew the grotesque stuff in the middle was based on real events since I’m a history buff and follow the author quite a bit. I do feel the end chunk was a little rushed and I believe that it could have been explained a bit more, but that’s what sequels are for. I think this novel is quite different than standard fantasy, and that’s not going to be for everyone. It’s quite dark and I preface that when I’m recommending it to people, because there are many triggers in this novel. I loved the character of Rin, and as far as her getting rid of her monthly cycle, I feel that was very in character for her. She also didn’t have a close relationship with the family that raised her, so not being told about your monthly didn’t confuse me, nor did her not finding it in her readings. I think my suspension of disbelief was stretched a couple of times, it that’s ok. I will definitely continue following RF Kuang and will continue this series. As we are just past the half point of the year it’s definitely at the top of my 2018 releases.

I'm 2 years late to this convo aha but when you mention the 'exaggerations' they are based upon real stories of the time. The whole pig thing is a very old story of how people trained. And the meditation thing is real...there are materialists in history who could meditate to near death for days on end. Granted these are stories where the reality may be misty...but there things some believe happened

I actually loved the potion part, in today's society men are allowed to undergo procedure whenever they want but women are not unless they had many children or not doing it is life threatening so the fact that potion and decision to not have children was handled so normal for me was a huge step up, I mean I personally would pay huuuuge money for such potion but again we are simply not allowed by law...

1. I had no issue with what Rin did to her body. I've never seen Rin as gendered in any way. Masculine or feminine, it never mattered to Rin. (Although she has expressed that womanhood is an inconvenience due to our reproductive organs...which sadly I agree with). Her decision to not have cramps and bleeding for the rest of her life was based purely on practicality, in my opinion. She didn't view menstruation as a symbol of fertility and womanhood, just another inconvenience that could be removed. Honestly, I have really bad cramps all the damn time and I don't plan on having children, so if I had the money and more forgiving parents I'd gladly do exactly what she did. She's a soldier who never sought to have any semblance of a normal future. Family didn't matter and neither did her cycle. I think people need to separate the biological processes with what it means to be a woman. She can be a strong female character but also be consistent with how someone of her personality and ambition will approach the cycle. Yes, it's something girls go through, but in wartime, I'd do the same. 2. I doubt philosophies and treatises and war histories will discuss what goes on in women's bodies. Women were never deemed that important in history to talk about natural processes like those. I don't think she studied much medicine either for the Keju, but yeah this is an assumption on my part. 3. The potion thing, I don't know either hahaha maybe RF Kuang didn't want to describe...other methods. 4. Yeah I felt nauseous reading about Golyn Niis. 5. Some parts did seem exaggerated but I'm not sure if RF was hinting at Rin's innate abilities? But yes I kind of agree with you hahaha 6. In terms of the language in the dialogue, I didn't care much. Things would be lost in translation and way too grimdark if the language was accurate. 7. Honestly some parts of the books (sequel just came out) felt really stupid and it makes me want to scream at the characters that that is OBVIOUSLY such a bad idea. I'm not sure if it was a matter of writing/pacing or predictability. Jiang telling Rin don't use your powers, red flag, of course she will. The moment Altan and Chaghan were arguing about the shaman army, red flag, of course they'll do it and this will do very badly. The moment the woman was blocking Rin from the Phoenix, red flag, that's obviously Tearza. I still love this series though. Despite its flaws I still consider it as one of my favorite books now.

I thought the book was just ok, and I agree with your comments. I think I'm going to hold off on judging this book overall until we get to read the second in the series. Mainly because so much happened in the last 100 pages, and what Rin did was so catastrophic to the world building. I'd like to see where we can go from here. Thanks for the video!

The uterus thing didn't bother me too much but I mentioned in my group that the fact Rin didn't know what her period was kind of unbelievable given her past and yeah it was pretty exaggerated coming from someone who has heavy periods. It kind of describes a rough labor and childbirth but not your first period. She was pretty small and worked out a lot so her body fat percentage was probably less than ideal so I would think she wouldn't have had a period every month anyways. (But that's beside the point) To me it seemed like the author almost crammed three books worth of stuff in one book. I felt like the changes in tone were very sudden and sometimes jarring but that could just be me. So that was one of the things I didn't like about the book. I agree that the author shouldn't have sugar coated things when talking about war and rape but because she did exaggerate so many things it did come across as shock factor to me when I first read it and I don't think that's what the author intended. Also I was not a fan of the magic system at all, but whimsical drug induced type scenes have never been my favorite. I did get used to the informal modern language but it did bug me until about 3 chapters in and then I got used to it. Anyways, it wasn't for me either but I would like to read more Asian inspired fantasy. I thought the world was really cool. Hopefully I'll find one I like eventually.

You had a lot of very valid points regarding this book and I agree 100% I really felt the book was very patchwork-y and a lot of the scenes didn't fit well together. I appreciated the very descriptive war scenes and the fact that the author put in so much to work portray it accurately, but given the overall tone of the rest of the book, it just didn't fit. It was almost like watching a cartoon and then all of a sudden the image flipped to a war documentary with live footage. Side note: when she was describing all the death and then realized which division it was and was hoping Kitay wasn't dead I was thinking in my mind "don't you dare find Kitay alive, that's TOOOOOOOO convenient and predictable, don't. you. dare." and then whaaaaaaaaa Kitay's alive! ugh.

I thought the language was off. Their register didn't match the overall theme of the storyline.

And sooooo many noses breaking :P

I enjoyed the book. Agree that some parts didn't hit home cause they kinda came out of left field, but honestly, the bits of foreshadowing (tiny or late) allowed me to look past it. I found the way she dealt with her atrocity to be in character. She will likely come to understand what she has done when she's a little older. Kitay's words will haunt her until she's strong enough to lower her guard

just came to see what you thought after reading this book. i have seen it so hyped up on booktube but confused on why after i finished cause i had some issues with it as well. Thinking on how i would rate it. hmmm.

definitely agree i feel like midway through chapter 24 i was thinking like okay so they're gonna team up and like finish this once and for all but then the last like 100 pages came literally out of left field and i was like okay so what actually did i just read

My friend wanted a cozy academy read with not a lot of violence, so I gave them the poppy war 😈

I just started it yesterday its so good

As you know I haven't finished it yet, but I still plan to, just not right now. That part didn't bother me that she took the potion. But I just wish she would have thought it through more than just a quick second. But she was pretty young and it just shows how rash people can be at times. I haven't read near to chapter 21, so I am not sure about that part yet. I did love the parts were they were learning about the History of the Poppy war.

chapter 21 have happened in the Philippines. Almost in a similar way when other countries invaded us.

I love the poppy war series! But I kinda agree with your points but i would like to note that rf Kuang was 19 when she wrote the poppy war. Also, the part towards the end where the end where she can’t decide if it’s her thought or the Phoenix that is something a lot of shamans deal with once they get the god in there head. They kinda try to take over.

About the pacing: I do love to read as much as possible on the school setting BUT I tend to get too attached lol for exemple in Nevernight, when they spend all of the first book on the school and then the 2nd book has totally another setting, I just miss it so bad. For that I am grateful and also because I felt like a lot happened right in the first book, the story moved foward through time like, there was no way Rin could have been such a good fighter by the end of her first year (as happens, again, in Nevernight where Mia "grows" so much and so fast), but it is much more credible that is had happened after 5 years in Sinegard

I'm starting the second novel!! Thanks for refreshing my poor memory XD You made some good points though, especially with the lady stuff and the exaggerations.

Overall I really liked the book. I wouldn't say it was the best book - or that its pacing was great at parts, but it really got me interested in the Rape of Nanking. I'd heard of the event, but this book definitely sparked my interest in learning about that horrible part of history. I'm very excited to read the second one soon!

Would you read the next book in the series?

I agree on so many points here!!!

ALSO I love a romance sooooooooo I would very much like to see a Rin/Nezha relationship but idk the odd are not for it I guess

I hate Rin. Probably the dumbest character in the book. She does not listen to anybody, and does not learn from her own or others' experience. Lol. She didn't even ask her roomates about the period thing. But I guess that's what I love about this book. Coz even someone who's clearly an underdog can still gain power. Because she's got this motivation, that drive to finish the stuff she started even though it comes with huge consequences. Anyway, I'm just rambling here. I probably didn't make sense. I did agree with some of the things you said about the book, especially with the menstruation thing. But I didn't really mind the stuff that were exaggerated, except on the gruesome war results. I liked the pacing. I'm also not much of a fan of their dialogues. I did enjoy this book though.

I liked your take on this. And I agree with that the more extreme scenes needed to be that graphic - I saw a GR review saying, "It was all Harry Potter in the beginning and Saw in the end". But maybe that was the whole point, R.F. Kuang showing us that in her world, one day you're a kid in school and the next day you have no choice but to see those atrocities as a soldier. The static-ness of Rin's character was what kinda irked me; maybe because I'm more used to characters growing and not regressing into being megalomaniacs 😅 What was the point of Rin being at the top of almost every class, if later she's just pure "GRRR!" and angst? 😐 But probably the biggest drawback for me was: the pacing. I don't necessarily need everything to fit neatly into a beat sheet or the 3 Act Structure, but it felt meandering. And the wind god guy getting released from the prison felt just thrown in there as a set-up for future books. Too bad, I actually quite like R.F. Kuang, at times she's very insightful and poetic! You can really tell she's studied Chinese history.

Well said! I agree. I didn't think it was a horrible book, just not my favorite.

I agree with you about the book, I also don’t think it was for me. I had a very meh reaction to it. I loved the first 7 chapters, I think those were great and then it slid downhill. I also agree with you in regards to the language, from the beginning it threw me off and I felt like it took me out of the story and out of the fantasy world that was created. I think pacing was definitely an issue and I really saw no character growth in Rin, she was continually told things and warned about things and she would listen for a little while until it didn’t suit her anymore and then she would become completely reckless ignoring everything she was warned about. This was a very middle of the road fantasy book for me and I mainly finished due to the buddy read so I am not sure if I will continue with the series.

You know how I felt about it!!! HaHa!

Hi there! Just finished this last night so of course I had to see what my favorite book tuber had to say about this book!! I thought the pacing was a bit too quick. To me everything happened very fast. The writing style screamed YA to me (obviously it really isn’t YA lol) but in Adult Fantasy I’m more used to descriptive writing, so that was kinda off-putting for me (subjective opinion) but I agree that how it was glossed over that she decided to sterilize herself. I thought that was going to come into play later on in the book, with her and Altan. I just don’t really see the point unless it was pertinent for her and Altan to reproduce. Which way come in later in the other books. I don’t think Altan is really dead. Just because of Changhan said he didn’t feel lit happen. So who knows. The scene with Venka was heart breaking. I am a mother so it was extremely difficult to read. I’m still trying to figure out my thoughts for that part. I get she’s trying to really drive home how absolutely horrible war is but geez dude, that was so hard to read. Omg. I didn’t even think about how modern their speaking was 😂 but now that you say it, I agree! Lol. It was kinda random how they just showed up at the mountain Overall though I think it was pretty good! It’s different from anything I’ve read and I will finish the trilogy! I love how you can still objectively review a book but not like it!!

i think the fact that she got rid of her period and not able to conceive kids has to do with the fact that she’s the last female speerlie, because even though she’s the last of her kind she wasn’t pressured with the fact of fertility and stuff like that comes with “being a woman”

She is a grey character

Just DNF it. Reaaaally bad. Can't understand how people loved it

I curse every person who recommended TPW as a "good book" to read. Honestly it was the worst book I've ever read. Impossible to like any character because they are either weak and whiny or too stupid to see the obvious danger of their actions. It's a book crammed full of bad crap with a few sprinkles of hope that quickly are dashed. If I wanted to listen to whining and crying for hours I'd be a kindergarten teacher. BAD!