7:58 i disagree. manus's grave site being so atypical is likely a lore-based decision. the reason we can assume that is because other graves in dark souls are usually burial mounds, naturally formed caverns or simple pits dug into the dirt and marked with stones. the concept wasn't fleshed out when DS1 came out, but by the time of DS3, we would eventually learn that humanity has a class system, and at the top of the hierarchy are "the pygmy lords", direct descendants of the furtive pygmy who found the dark soul. they are the kings and queens of humanity by birthright and generally have the most powerful, most pure dark soul fragments dwelling in them. the implication of manus being "primeval" is that he was one of the first humans. that means he must either be the furtive pygmy, or one of their direct descendants, one of their family that was the first imbued with the dark soul. this is further emphasized with his name, "manus", which means "hand" and is the root word for "man" and "mankind". whoever manus was, he would've been immensely respected in his day, so him being buried in a special gravesite molded out of the stone with massive stone pillars marking it actually makes a lot of sense. it also makes sense that humanity would stop burying their dead that way, since with the advent the age of fire, gwyn begins sealing the dark soul within the darksign, meaning the magical ability to use the dark soul to mold the stone and construct the specialized stone pillars would've been lost. cultural shifts away from worshipping the dark and into worshipping fire also mean that humans would've lost their desire to bury their nobility in special places or special ways, since the nobility contained more dark soul and thus would've become more and more disliked as gwyn took control of the world.
I don't think Gwyn created the darksign until the fire started to fade. It was his backup plan to insure that _someone_ would always try to link the fire and never allow it to fully fade.
@@Greywander87 the ringed knight set says he branded the human knights after the war with the dragons, and one of the dragon-head shields says that humanity's heroics went unsung because gwyn feared their power. that is long, long before the fire started to fade.
Hi ! Loving your vids ! Here's an addition to your theorie from the Izalith's Staff from Dark souls 3 : "Ancient catalyst of the Witch of Izalith and her daughters, used long before the dawn of chaos and of pyromancy. With the birth of the Chaos Flame, the flame witches were at once both sorcerers and shamans. Faith adjusts the power of sorceries cast using this catalyst, and the staff also seems to boost the power of dark sorceries. Skill: Steady Chant Boost the strength of sorceries for a very short period. Works while equipped in either hand." So in fact, before the fire, religious people were shamans, and because there was no First Flame and pyromancy and because humanity came from the Dark, thus they use Dark spells (dark sorcery to be precise, like Manus) like this staff is indicating. I always found it strange (when i played DS3) for the Witch of Izalith to use dark sorceries before using pyromancies but this is their heritage, the heritage of all Humanity, drawing their power from the Dark before the Dawn and Age of Fire.
Although I've read somewhere that the witches of Izalith are a separate race. And it makes sense. They got a separate great soul and don't give humanity upon death. But the notion of nature/shamanism and humanity being linked is interesting, nice find
When it comes to the circle of statues, the bonfire at the center always felt emblematic of Gywn rather than the flame. In a weird way it is a more metaphorical interpretation of the statue of Gwyn in the ring city. They complete each other. The humanity's draw to the bonfire and the pygmies kneeling to Gwyn. Humanity in Dark Souls wasn't always drawn to the flame the gods bound them to it to control them.
That's can't be right; we know that some pre-flame creatures went up to the flame and found the lord souls. So clearly whatever we were before was attracted to them.
With both the idea that there is a great span of time between the first flame being found, and the different groups being created. And the war with the dragons. And the revelations given in DS3. I think there is an easy way to square "manus as furtive pygymy" and the pygmy lords. After all, Manus could have been the furtive pygmy. But it was the pygmy lords who participated in the war against the dragons. Manus having died, and been buried in the caves they lived in. Long before the war with the dragons and the age of fire. Inside the Caves of the land that would eventually become lordran. To be found by Oolacile a long time later. Oolacile, New Londo, Anor Londo, the Tomb of the Giants, and Izalith. All the places representing the peopole of the fire, and the four lords. And the ringed city, far away at the end of the world, where the Pygmies would come to live in. Perhaps the Oolacile Sanctuary represents not just the comemoration of the discovery of Manus, Humanity Sprites, and their attraction to flame. But perhaps the rediscovery of their nature as beings of the Dark Soul.
Arguably catastrophic, the cycle of fire and dark appears to be perfectly natural and not overly harmful to humanity. It's harmful to those beings born of light, which humanity are distinctly not.
This is the first video of ta’s that I saw the archaeological reference coming before the explanation! I live in England near Dartmoor and there are a lot of stone circles on the moors, I can specifically think of a stone circle by Gidleigh that has stones looking very much like Manus’ boss room lol
a fire surrounded by humanity sprites looks like the inverse of the dark sign. maybe the sanctuary commemorates the first time the gods discovered the abyss, which would also be humanity discovering the divine.
14:50 - I was going to say that, given the Dark Souls historical-cycle by which civilizations are kind of buried under other, newer kingdoms, it's possible the stone circle and grave weren't located in a cave at the time it was built.
I spent the last week and a half bing watching your entire Elden Ring series and it's one of the best things I've ever watched. It changed the way I interpreted the narrative, appreciate the art and stoked my dying, smouldering fire of curiousity.
I think I find the lore surrounding the world of Elden Ring to be more interesting, but the lore surrounding the narrative of Dark Souls to be more compelling.
@@Gumper30 I felt despite the world and lore of ER being much broader in scale than DkR, it often felt like things were being scaled down to an individual level (probably because of most things that happened pretty much all came from the Marika's family). Whilst DkS to me, is the exact opposite, and like you said, DkS's narrative is a lot more compelling.
@@apophisstr6719 That's odd, because everything about DS lore entirely stems from things Gwyn did. Both games point to a pre-history before Gwyn and Marika. But the events the games are concerned with are entirely about the actions of these supremely powerful people and the world altering consequences which stem from them. To me, the games are almost identical except that their metaphorical content has altered as a result of Miyazaki getting older and acquiring different experiences. DS is smaller in scope and a lot of that reflects the uncertainty of someone learning to cram such a large narrative into a small game. ER is more confident and willing to take more risks while also being more sympathetic in some ways. It's hard to see Gwyn as anything but a villain. Marika is a bit more gray.
Regarding the sanctuary, I think it reflects something Last Protagonist covered in his video on the true nature of humanity in Dark Souls. In the absence of Fire (and thus disparity), humans have no individual existence. When the Fire finally fades, there will be no shadows, only one singular Dark that encompasses and is all. That is why the Dark sprites are drawn to those touched in some way by the Flame.
I had just assumed the Pygmy naked and crawling represented much like a hollow …ie: both soulless, one having lost and one before finding. I hadn’t felt the gap in history was animated per se but those were just artistic expression for what the narrator was saying at the moment.
I've always thought that humanity sprites looked like bodies wrapped for burial rituals and that they're ghosts of the original inhabitants who took that shape when arising from their tombs.
that is the problem, he doesnt use ANY info that the GAME itself provides to tell ITS story. he tries to somehow shoehorn in irl lore into elden ring or dark souls, who while take inspiration from irl stuff, have their own stories told INGAME via descriptions, item placement, enemy and enemy placement, etc he isnt analysing ANYTHING in those videos, he is just doing WIILD speculation that is extremely nonsensical
@@ONobreBabuino The developers of the game were inspired by the real world, and somehow you see it as a bad thing to actually examine that instead of pretending the game is a magic space with no connection to anything else. Video games are constantly referencing the real world, unfortunately most gamers aren't that smart.
@@PlatinumAltariai never denied that the devs use real world inspiration, as we see with the gwyn statue in heide being a falcon because its inspired from the sun god ra, who had a falcon head. my problem with TA's analysis is that he tries to fit in stuff from irl which just doesnt make sense in context of the game and even still, those irl inspirations are minor and help explain certain parts of the lore, like the gwyn statue thing i mentioned. but to the scale that TA tries to portray it to be, it just doesnt make any sense at all
15:04 there's evidence that Denisovans actually had a burial practice since there was a skull found on a ledge that a lot of evidence says the skull could've only ended up on it via being set by someone/thing.
It's ironic that the place were the first flame ignited would be were the ringed city was built on top of. Any chance for an analysis on the Cathedral of blue and Lothric how they share these motivs: the headless knight, the wax covered scholar, the priestess and the hunter?
@@whatsnewbois9814 The arena itself doesn't look especially similar to me, but it is interesting how you get there by jumping down the hole, cause it's a lot like the hole in the arch tree hollow from the DS1 intro that the camera flys through. It almost looks like they uprooted those archtrees and built the city on that very land. So yeah you might be on to something here
"No other mammal is drawn to fire." - I get the feeling you're not a cat owner... But jokes aside, this is the dream. The Tarnished Achaeologist is going hollow.
the only other game that comes close to this level of archaeological sophistication is Morrowind. Separate eras of ancient Resdayn architecture being retaken by the Sixth House, Ashlander cavern-barrows, forgotten Dwemer ruins themselves built atop daedric worship sites.
Your points really struck a chord with me. I think humanity's true nature is to resist & defy: the point you make that we are all basically descended from an ancestor that was likely a mutant variant that embraced fire rather than run from it hits home
I’m interested in where this goes. There is definitely some interpretation going on that is different than many agreed upon DS lore theorists. That being said, DS lore is less rigid than Elden Ring’s lore and lends itself better to other interpretations.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for explaining such a simple yet profoundly fundamental part of the game so clearly. My lord. You just explained the must fundamental part of the very start of the game. What in the good dang heck is going on with the fire keepers? Besides them being evocative of the Vestals. It feels so obvious now but also so much more meaningful, they're literally living kindling. As is described in game, any sprite can be kindling. It's funny, I've felt the draw of fire (if you will) this entire time. Every time I played any Dark Souls game I marched right up there and linked the flame. I followed it's light like a moth. Suddenly I want to embrace the dark. =) And here I thought the story was mostly the poetic Edda and story of Siegund but all of that came much later.
Things like this are why I don't like the Demon's Souls remaster. Great game, etc. but with the changes to the textures, the designs of the zones, even the soundtrack, Bluepoint didn't just alter FromSoft's intent. They altered the game's story and lore. Where FromSoft puts intent behind their creative choices, they would mix materials and architectures from different histories to make a point. Meanwhile, Bluepoint turned a defense outpost that had just succumbed to undeath to a gothic castle that has been abandoned for centuries. The remake looks amazing, it's beautiful, it sounds great. But it changed the story. And I don't like it. Lot's of talk about wanting a Bloodborne remaster - I want one too... but I don't want it, if it would be like the Demon's Souls one.
It's very astounding how Souls games are very focused on the story they are trying to tell and its themes, and because of it they still convey so much about both their world and ours. Writing and game design at an incredibly high level, puts even the best of other games to shame.
I think it's a misnomer to consider humans, gods, giants, and even the witches of izalith to be wholly different species. It seems to me, at least from the one image depicting men approaching the fire, that it's likely they all arose from one common ancestor, and finding the Lords Souls birthed the lines of gods, humans, witches, and even the resurrected dead in Nito. They're different forms of the same base principle, each given a different aspect of the First Flame. It gets exaggerated over prehistoric eons, when the gods/giants begin to grow really tall, Nito's necromancers amass generations of corpses, and when the flame fades the Witches attempt to light a new one and birth the Demons. At the point we see the games, it's hard to draw those connections, and instead we just see them as separate species. Even then, we find human-sized witches, gods, and others. I think the gods, Gwynevere in particular, are very interesting. If she was literally the size depicted in Anor Londo, then it's likely she's either the origin of the giant race entirely, or her mother was a member of the race.
I'm recognizing a lot of pre-historic architecture in the finger ruins of elden ring, coincidentally being near the shaman village. also i forgot how beautiful the atmosphere of the first dark souls is, which only elden ring could replicate. genuinely feel like a realistic completely alien society.
omfg i am so so so so happy we are talking about the prehistory 3:45 like this. i am so hyped hahaha YESS 5:00 IZALITH LOOORE omfg yes yes yes pahahha can ya'll tell im excited 6:00 pahaha omg primevil man... i just got goosebumps pahaha 8:20 oh~~~~ my~~~ god. you are so right. he has horn like protrusions. i am so so curious to see how this could relate to the crucible in elden ring 21:41 oooo~ i love how you built up the explanations of societies and their "epochs?" to lead up to the concept of dark soul's first contact with primeval man. i gained a great new perspective of the dlc. i guess the follow up question would be. now that we know there was a "first contact" event in the game. who made first contact? and what were the consequences? what if it was the chaos flame? 25:20 we are talking about the first contact with fire. but i am so curious about the nature of the fire. i think, at least the bonfire that we know so well and love, uses human bones, but perhaps the humanity lingering within the bones, as fuel? that's why item descriptions of human bones in dark souls and even elden ring talk of how brittle it is, almost as if all the humanity was used up, leaving just the unburnable bone, brittle and useless, crumbling at the touch. and you mention 24:40 that other animals and beasts do not like fire (also a common theme in fromsoftware games), but why do we love it? why do humanity sprites love it? because they love congregating/aggregating. they must sense some innate humanity in the flames and feel drawn to it. even though the flame is burning at the cost of our humanity.
WHAT!? DS1 lore video!? I am so fuckin here! The game that got me into the genre. The only game that stands neck n neck with Bloodborne, some days, as my fav Soulsborne game. That game is just waaaay too damn special to me. It was my first. Lol
I really dig your content and fully believe that you're one of the greats with regards to souls-lore. That said, my heart sinks every time I see something that isn't Elden Ring.
Youd have your mind blown when you realize the fog across all games comes from demon souls & the ending to that. Even having many archeological connections to Ancients who created the divine towers. Its mind boggling
omg YESSS YESSSSSS i didn't even WATCH this video, but there are so many parts to dark souls 1 that i think the elden ring lore people forget about, but this is where it all started. and there are so many things referenced to these parts that there has GOT to be carry over from this game in terms of lore. i am so excited for this video
6:04 actually, today it's basically non-existant. The only real evidence left of Oolacile is Artorias's grave. Everything else has crumbled away entirely or been buried under the Darkroot Forest.
If for any reason you want to cover anything related to DS3. You'll want to make sure you got your DS2 figured out. Certain things re-emerge as topics that majority of people don't talk much about and mistaken things to be only from DS3 factors.
