If anyone is wondering, the relationship between Door and Saga is never outright stated but can be inferred based on a later conversation between Mr. Door and Alan. Same thing with the confrontation with the Andersons. Door is never actually called out by name in the note that talks about Odin's eye, but if you were paying attention, you could read between the lines and make that connection. It's a neat little piece of world building that rewards the player for trying to put together the bigger picture and is entirely optional lore.
@@rngwrldngnr this was the smoking gun to me, and then later Door’s comment about trying to protect somebody close to him. While it’s all but confirmed, I’m still bracing myself in case Remedy pulls the rug from under us and reveals it was a red herring all along…
To add to this, it's not technically canon in this shared universe, because unfortunately Microsoft owns the IP (so I understand why LoL wouldn't cover it), but the game is littered with Quantum Break references and QB is the first introduction of the character for whom Warlin Door is a stand-in. I have no doubt that Remedy would've gone even further and cast Lance Reddick as Door, if not for his tragic death.
@@ObiGynKenobi Correct, it was also confirmed that Lance Reddick was cast as door before his tragic death. There is was also a temp add sign of a Lance Reddick poster as Mr Door hidden in the games files.
Lance would've been great, but David Harewood did a phenomenal job! I hope we get more of him and Mr. Door. I sat up straight/at attention every time he came onscreen 👀
I got that sense as well (and Reddick has an "in memory of" in the credits). I love Reddick, so it's a shame he didn't appear in the game, but David Harewood absolutely killed it anyway.
@@jiopa From Wikipedia entry for Norse goddess Sága: "The etymology of the name Sága is generally held to be connected to the Old Norse verb sjá, meaning "to see" (from Proto-Germanic *sehwan). This may mean that Sága is to be understood as a seeress. Since Frigg is referred to as a seeress in the poem Lokasenna, this etymology has led to theories connecting Sága to Frigg. Rudolf Simek says that this etymology raises vowel problems and that a link to saga and segja (meaning "say, tell") is more likely, yet that this identification is also problematic."
SO glad for this lore retelling! This is the first video that has perfectly pieced together all the information, while keeping the heart of it (unlike a certain FBI agent heh). Can't wait for the next video!!
I watched this while at least half asleep, and I could've sworn that you at one point pronounced Baba Yaga as Barba Jagger. Then again, I was having a wild dream on top of your narration. ETA: On rewatch, it's definitely Barbara Jagger that my sleeping brain insisted must be Baba Yaga.
Her Finnish name is "Baba Jakala". I suspect it was chosen for its similarity to "Baba Yaga", though I don't know if that was actually the reason for her name.
Just recently found this channel and it has been an incredible gift. You make such amazing lore videos and I only wish you further success. Have a delightful day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
The echoes involving Casey are from an alternate noir universe based on Max Payne. Alan uses the information he gathers there as inspiration to put into the novel. But mostly the Casey stuff is metaphorical and is a reflection of Alan's internal journey. Casey likes being part of this depressing universe and doesnt really do anything to help himself. "I wasn't stuck in the dark place. I was the dark place." Similarly, Alan goes round and round: realising his flaws as a person, gets better, regresses, despairs, hurts others, repeat.
I am absolutely loving your videos, been invested since the Ocarina of Time ones. I still need to finish watching Alan Wake 1's lore videos and Control, then move on to this one, but I just wanted to say this. I really, really really hope you get to tackle Pathologic 1 and 2 some day. They would be absolute masterpieces with your storytelling style.
Oh yeah, this is what I'm here for. I've loved every vid I've watched so far (going through the archive), but the Alan Wake/Control stuff is what brought me here and I'm all for it. I've loved every Remedy game I've played (even if I was so bad at Alan Wake that I never finished it - I was really into it ever since I saw a webseries/vids they released to promote it), but AW/Control is my fave part of their stuff (though I definitely would not complain if I saw more Quantum Break stuff). Definitely an interesting game so far. Curious how the gameplay breaks down (are you getting cuts to Alan throughout the Saga stuff, or does it switch to him here, like the video?), maybe I will give it a try at some point.
One thing that's crazy about revealed in the lore is that the Oldest House is still locked down in AW2. Given it was explicitly 2019 in Control and 2023 in AW2, that means the Hiss Lockdown has lasted *4 years*. Control 2 is gonna be nuts.
17:20 I think it might be fair to say it's possible that Alan was being influenced by the Dark Place even before the events of the game. Effectively giving credence to the idea that Alan didn't take inspiration from Casey's life, Casey's life took inspiration from Alan's works.
Wow, finally someone straight comes out and says Door is Saga's dad. The fuckin' subreddit, man "It's highly debated if Door's her dad" DOOR DESCRIBES a power that ONLY his family has that Saga does 5 seconds later. COME ON. Lol. PS. I don't think Tor and Odin hate Door at all.. They hate that Door had a child with Freya and created a kid with both family's powers.
I'm still of the mindset that Thomas Zane created True Tom Rhymer (both the one from Deathrally and the actual mythological one), Alan Wake, Tom the Poet, and all other versions of him in an attempt to escape the Dark Place and he may, in fact, not have been lying when he said 'The poet? That is just someone I played in one of my movies.' It's noteworthy nobody remembers his other films - just like nobody remembered his poems before - though. Time Breaker showed he apparently played Rhymer in a Deathrally movie and I think it's more than just an easter egg ("You have been warned.") Wake is effectively Zane's attempt to create a hero, just like Wake tried to create a hero out of Jesse, Tim, and a bunch of others.
I was waiting for this video :) in the wake (pun intended) of my completion of the Final Draft, I would like to discuss with you guys my unified theory/timeline of events. Credits to muse, gaming university and hidden machine, source of most of the information I used for my theory. Obviously spoilers ahead . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ok first off, I don't think Zane is a poet at all and there's a lot of evidence to support it. I think the Zane we meet in Alan Wake 1 is his diver character from the Tom the Poet movie. At one point the diver himself says "but I'm not the author...!" when asked by Alan why can't he tell him what he wants to know, if he is in fact Zane. He's also voiced by James McCaffrey (rest in peace), who was credited by Sam Lake himself as Zane the Diver in his instagram post about the tragic loss of his friend. Why the distiction? You only need to look at the Tom the Poet movie to find the answer. The cast resembles that of the plot of Alan Wake 1, and the poster says based on an Alan Wake novel... I think that novel is Departure. I think Tom the Poet is the companion piece of Departure just as Yoton Yo is the companion piece of Return. To add to this, there's also the 2012 blog "this house of dreams", released on the internet in tandem with the release of American Nightmare. In it, a lady called Samantha Wells (she is also mentioned in some Control documents) starts a blog about her renovation plans for an old house she purchased in Ordinary. She starts posting pictures of items she found in the house, inside a shoebox. The shoebox contains poems by Thomas Zane. Remember how in Control, Jesse always mistook Thomas Zane for a poet instead of a film maker? Well that's not because she's influenced by the story, as I originally thought, but simply because she found the poems in the shoebox back in her childhood home of Ordinary. The blog pretty much implies Samantha Wells purchased Jesse's house. I think the poems inside the shoebox are scripts Zane wrote AS his character from the Tom the Poet movie. In one of the pages posted on the blog, there's an handwritten note by Zane, saying: "remember! A diver!" while in another page, there's a poem which is VERY similar to the lyrics of Alan Wake II's Dark Twisted and Cruel song. This leads to another theory I have about Scratch, but I'll talk about it later on. Having said all that, I speculate Zane used his movie back in 1970 as a way to "vow them both to silence, deep beneath the lake" as the lyrics of The Poet and Muse song from Alan Wake 1 say. He used the movie to trap himself in the Dark Place with Barbara Jagger, just like Alice Wake used her The Dark Place photo exhibition to enter the Dark Place and rescue Alan. If we buy into the film maker Zane angle, his other movie we see in the game, Yoton Yo, gets VERY interesting. A manuscript page in Alan Wake 2 implies at some point the Koskela Bothers feel as if influenced by something, that is turning them into the characters of urban legend, the Hotari Well killers from Watery's dark past. I think Zane put them in the movie as these characters, and I also think the Koskela brothers are responsible for the urban legends about the cult spread decades before as you guys said in your stream, as that becomes possible with the powers of the Dark Place. For instance, Saga used the Dark Ocean Summoning song to bring back Alan, but he popped out days before the performance itself. I think that is how Casey and the Koskelas are featured in the movie. It being the companion piece of Return also explains why it foreshadows the ending with the "it's not a loop, it's a spiral" line. But why is that you might ask, if supposedly Scratch wrote Return instead of Alan? Well yes it might be true that Scratch and Zane collaborated at some point (as evidenced by the scene in the hotel with them dancing and drinking to The Happy Song by Poets of the Fall, which is basically Scratch's theme song from American Nightmare). Speaking of, let's get back to the blog poems and one of them being similar to Dark Twisted and Cruel in Alan Wake II. I think Scratch is somehow Zane's creation, or at least he's responsible for the Dark Presence manifesting itself that way. The way the Diver nonchalantly says to Alan "oh yeah don't mind him, he's Mr. Scratch. Your friends will meet him when you're gone" in Alan Wake 1 always sounded very fishy to me, and the blog poem seems to prove me kinda right. I think Scratch is the result of Zane fucking up his first writing attemps, similar to Barbara coming back "wrong". Since Alan and Zane look identical it's not a stretch to assume Scratch could get into Alan later on and assume the role he had in American Nightmare. I think his defeat in American Nightmare really happened, it was just a different manifestation of Scratch manifested for different reasons, and I think Alice and Alan reuniting in the documentary ecc could have easily happened in 2012 even in Alice only entered the Dark Place years later, as I previously implied. Back to Casey, why is he in the Yoton Yo movie? Well if you really think about it, that movie gives Alan the plot elements he needs to make the ending work, even if Zane had a somewhat malicious intent while collaborating with Scratch. And yes Scratch may have wrote Return's first draft, but in the manuscript pages we see both Scratch's original pages edited with a pen by Alan, and original Alan pages edited with a pen by Scratch, so who knows? Last thing I want to mention, the encounters between Zane and Darling in the Dark Place in the Final Draft might have some CRAZY meta implications, like you know, them collaborating (Alan's voice actor and Alan's motion capture actor) to create Alan. The body of Zane, the mind of Darling fused together. That's just insane to think about 😛 Now I would like to hear your two cents 🙂
I'm so excited! My favorite lore lady has done it again, and by the way Barry is part of the Chester cult referenced in Control Door is probably Saga's dad and I CANT WAIT FOR PART 2!!!
I totally missed-or rather, didn't consider-that Rose simply had two jobs. I assumed the transition from waitress to nurse was an edit and kept going. In my defence there was a lot going on and amending a lateral change of vocation for a key minor character was low on the priority list.
I watched the stream but I waited for this so hard, I'mma watch all of the videos for Control and the Alan Wake games in one go when Alan Wake 2 is done
You seem to be the most knowledgeable person on the lore that I have seen so far. My question to you: It was my belief that the profiling that Saga does, not the stuff Saga says, but who she is profiling sometimes those words are found in manuscript pages. Is the power and/or profiling specifically because of Wake's writing?
I love that this game does nothing for me except feed my LSD delusions. No: genuinely; that's great for me. More mysteries, less dreams. I haven't ever even played it, the lore just taps my brain in all the right ways.
Finally finished this damn game haha. Became fan after playing CONTROL. The game felt kinda long and I wasn't too into it except the lore. I just wanted to finish so I could watch lore videos like yours 😂 Great vid! Not disappointed
Aye! Alan is awake once again! (I know that was a bad joke.) Still happy to get more lore and hope you and Brink are doing well Tip! Also Tor and Odin are some old guys I’d hang with, though want to omit the alcoholism
Am I the only one who would cut off my own arms to hear her dig into Higurashi and Umineko?....That would be the height of amazing!! Hell, I'd even buy the games myself for her to do it.
I'm almost constantly in confusion about what measure Alan Wake actually has in manipulating reality, circling around questions of did he create Jesse Faden and her backstory as well as Thomas Zane and her backstory as well as Thomas Zane. The idea that his parautilitarian traits classify him as a sort of seer -while also being an artist- coming into contact with the dark presence could have combined to form this reality bending force where seer-sees-reality-dramaticizes-reality-to-his-adjenda-writing-art-based-on-reality-in-turn-rewriting-reality-successfully is pretty new to me about as much as there being a real Alex Casey whereas I believed Max Payne to be living the world of the Alex Casey novels. He channeled reality into his art and then channeled his art of reality through the dark place to make reality into reality that better suits his needs, in theory. It just always draws into question if he invented the greater astral plane from his home in the singular AWE that is Cauldron Lake, entirely so there would be a trauma and an institution for Faden to encounter to become a hero that adds a stream to his river into his lake into his ocean. And when I asked if he maybe made Zane a poet in stead of a director and that's why Jesse got it wrong too it just sends me into another look, a spiral if you will.
just can't wait for a Door/Bless centered plot to hammer all the subjective concepts into place more firmly, the astral plane is not hard to grasp but the dark place is
I still think that Alan's limits of not being able to write things whole cloth into existence is an error on the part of the character, like training wheels. I honestly think if they did an AW3, he's on track to become *literally* God; the chalkboard in Quantum Break really seems to suggest that. (Dark Matter created the universe, and it began with 'let there be light' are both mentioned there). The Night Springs DLC answers many questions about him and Door, with Alan being the 'master of many worlds,' including blended realities (like where Monarch and the FBC form the REC at the Oldest House instead). Scratch being called the literal devil.. and is Alan's opposite.. what does that say about Alan? Ascension as his destination makes a lot of sense.
1:49 Warlin Door is Martin Hatch which means he is a Shifter and can move through Time , Dreams, and Dimensions. He became a shifter from Cronon particle exposure before the events of Quantum Break. This also explains Tim Breakers odd comments about living another life , being a different person. Because Tim Breaker is Jack Joyce, and at the end of Quantum Break it was clear Jack Joyce not only had the time sickness but that Martin Hatch was going to help him learn to Control it.
The more I think about it the more I feel like this should have been both Alan Wake II AND Control II. Alex Casey takes on the case because it has a lot of signs pointing to Alan Wake, he's the player character this time around and instead of Saga he has a different partner who plays the very loose part that Casey ended up playing. And then there's the third party. An FBC agent sent to investigate with them. This stone-cold woman by the name of Jesse Faden. So Casey and his partner have run-ins with Jesse, obviously, but she seems to be doing her own thing. Seems like she knows more than she's talking about. The main game still requires a newgame plus playthrough in order to get the final, real ending but this time that's because newgame plus is from the point of view of Jesse Faden. And the bullet of light, also, has to be fired from an object of power. The service weapon.
They focused much more on story than gameplay which kind of was a little hard to focus on both at the same time when playing Must be my age of dealing with stressful environments but i overall like how profound it wants to be different and itself given it contributes many of its tropes to an era long ago which this is how many popular things become relived again Just wished it didn’t take so long and graphical fidelity didn’t lock people from experiencing it Perhaps there should be a game about the costs of visuals and content not being directly linked so we can break away from always needing such high standards to enjoy higher quality literature
I wonder... Could the "Spiral" Alice Wake was trying to affect; could that be why people died between 2010 and 2023? The story trying to take hold without all of the needed parts being in place?
There's a very good chance it was Alan from a different looping of the spiral (like the Alan on the phone with current Alan near the end of Initiation)
