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The problem with backstory

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This weeks video is about exploring how Frieren does flashbacks so well. Talking about the past in a story comes with some inherent difficulties. So what differentiates a good and bad flashback?
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Music in order of appearance:
Drawing Something on the Walls - Rebecca Mardal
Wam Energy (Instrumental Version) - HATAMITSUNAMI
Sleep + Hungry - baegel
Can't Get Stirred (instrumental) - Witchitaw Slim
Sentient - Gavin Luke
#frieren #anime #pey

Опубликовано:

6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 94

@ventusse 2 месяца назад

You know Frieren have good flashbacks when you are now actively waiting for the Himmel flashbacks. And the fact that Himmel keeps on winning the popularity contest even though we only realistically saw him on episode 1, and only know him by how Frieren remembered him

@undeathghost5627 2 месяца назад

I actually think your second point is part of why Himmel is so beloved. We love him *because* he is the idealized version of himself by Frieren, post-death. It is a sad fact of reality that often memories of those closest to ones self can become idealized and immortalized over time. This message is actually conveyed in Frieren's story a bit as well during one of the early episodes when they are cleaning up the shore. Frieren briefly comes to the conclusion that Himmel didn't actually know her as well as she thought he did... Whether that is true or not is certainly up to debate. She does seem to realize at the end of the episode that she simply misunderstood what it was that he knew she'd enjoy about that sunrise. Though, in a way, he could have simply been wrong and she chooses to look back on it that way because of this idealization. The show even has a second layer of beautiful (but tragic) storytelling because this concept of idealized/immortalized memories is precisely why "heroes" are spoken about, most often, through myth and legend. Most "heroes", even in our own history are cobbled together bits of information and are plagued with misinformation that we don't really know what is "True" and what is "myth". Then you look at the show and it's entire premise is... literally walking in the footsteps of old "heroes" and trying to "relive" their best days. Meeting people throughout the entire show who only know the "idealized" heroes of her party while Frieren knows the cold reality that they were just typical people who did a heroic thing. That's why for me, the fact he made the statues for Frieren resounded so beautifully... As Himmel put it. "Because we're not fairy tales". The sad truth is they are for everyone. Everyone except Frieren.

@atd6225 2 месяца назад

You know Frieren has good flashbacks when Himmel could actually inspire heroism in our real life. I mean, in this age, really ?

@MirecU 2 месяца назад

@@undeathghost5627 And in the episode Real Hero Frieren herself even says that the real person behind a hero vanishes through time and only idealization remains...

@pianissimo7121 18 дней назад

I hated the flashbacks for 1st few episodes. Until I realised that Himmel was so perfect because that's what Frieren choose to remember him by. Its not all of Himmel but the part of Himmel Frieren keeps looking back to. No wonder he is so perfect. And the second part I liked which I originally didn't like was that the Flaskbacks felt like an afterthought. Its like the author wrote the chapter and then decided to add a flashback. But as the chapters went on there was a consistency and callback to the flashbacks that I didn't expect. Which showed the Author actually thought about the flashbacks and how it effects future story too. It was then that I truly appreciated Frieren for what it was including all of the flashbacks.

@BloodFrostX 15 дней назад

The flashbacks show how much Frieren loves him

@twelfthknight 2 месяца назад

One of the things that defines Frieren as a work for me is it really doesn't flashback to those major acts of heroism - I don't know if we'll ever see the fight with the Demon King, for instance - but rather highlights those moments that unknowingly became precious to Frieren herself. It's (almost) the entire basis for Himmel as a character, these quiet conversations that she had while travelling with him that have seeped into Frieren and have slowly redefined aspects of her character in ways she doesn't even consciously understand.

@TheBaldrickk 2 месяца назад

So far we've seen exactly three. Himmel saving the town from episode 3. Which is over in a flash and is from the perspective of the herbalist when she was young. Himmel saving the village elder's daughter from the demon, which is played more as a redemption for preventing Frieren from killing it earlier Fighting a dungeon boss with Frieren and Eisen. No-one of these are narratively significant in and of themselves. They're just part of the overall tapestry of his character. It's done so well. He may be the hero who saved the world, but what Frieren focuses on is Himmel as a person. Who he really was.

@ObiwanNekody 2 месяца назад

In the manga you eventually get a few of the major heroic scenes that Wirble references in episode 28.

@youssefbencheikh8637 2 месяца назад

+ it makes sense for an ancient battle mage like frieren who killed countless demons to have those kinds of memories stick out as memorable.

@JoelChang 2 месяца назад

Recent insights from teaching children: most of the time, they don't understand the deeper meaning behind adults' words, or they simply don't care at the moment. But after some time, when they gain a new experience, they suddenly say, "Ah, you told me about this" or "This teacher taught me this part of history." Adults are like this too; I often have such experiences myself. Although Frieren's story seems to heavily emphasize this kind of buildup, I think the author simply has a profound understanding that 'people need time for experiences to settle and ferment.

@lenowoo 2 месяца назад

When we are younger hearing th word "you'll know when you are adult" is annoying af. But now I'm adult myself, i can only think that my pas self is stupid af for not listening

@JoelChang 2 месяца назад

@@lenowoo But I think that's inevitable. We need a certain amount of experience to unlock the ability in our minds to understand a particular sentence.

@kris1123259 2 месяца назад

After the first 5 flashabcks or so I started to reflexively get teary eyes whenever a flashback started because I had grown accustomed to how emotional they are.

@undeathghost5627 2 месяца назад

Because you knew something important was happening in Frieren's head. The flashbacks make every emotion you get to see on her face so worth cherishing.

@UltraHD.7 2 месяца назад

It were actually the Flamme and Serie flashbacks that grabbed me the most emotionally. SPOILER: For example the one with Serie in episode 25 after Flammes death and her remembering Flamme as a little kid, despite saying she just trained her on a whim, never fails to make me tear up. Every time I see it. It was such a perfect background abut Series true character.

@thesunthrone 2 месяца назад

Serie sitting in a greenhouse filled with flowers, itself part of a mage school that she established, crewed by students hand-picked by her... Such a "useless" spell, creating a field of flowers, sprung from a student she took on a whim... and there it is, in full bloom all around her. This story is filled with beautiful, well considered metaphors.

@stanacc6999 7 дней назад

@@thesunthrone Plus, she ridiculed and tore up Flamme's will which spoke of training imperial mages, but look who decided to create their very own Continental Magic Association

@mothmankickflip 2 месяца назад

I just appreciate that, frequently, the flashbacks in Frieren ARE the emotional payoff, as opposed to setting it up.

@arukimania 2 месяца назад

One thing I love about Frieren's flashbacks that I think you really put your finger on in this video is how layered they can be, with some of them getting revisited and recontextualized as the show goes on in a way that makes them function as set-up for things outside their immediate context. Spoilers beyond what's been covered in this video below: The statue example works well as an illustration here too, because in a later episode the modern-day party comes across a pair of statues so old nobody knows who they're supposed to depict anymore. Some of the group recognize another elf they ran into on their travels (Kraft), but no one knows who the other person is. This calls into question the efficacy of even statues against the incredible spans of time that elves live, quietly returning to the exact same issue Himmel was trying to address with them in the first place (complicating but not detracting from the gesture). At the same time, through the power of inference, we learn more about the monk Kraft and can guess that he may have had an experience similar to Frieren. This then lends some additional weight to the forgotten heroics of Kraft's past that he mentions in passing during one of the episodes he appears in. Meanwhile, much of this is all tangential to what's happening in the actual story of the episode where the party finds the statues. True, not every flashback ties in to a layered set of throughlines like this, but there are enough of them that it makes the story feel incredibly rich. Anyway, thanks as always for making these videos! I look forward to them every week.

@kris1123259 2 месяца назад

The motif of the statues get revisited later in the manga as well

@undeathghost5627 2 месяца назад

Yeah I really appreciated later when we get shown this pair of statues that *aren't* the heroes we know in the story for the first time. That even the person who wishes to tend to the statues has no idea who they are... only that they must have been important. It worked as a nice twist to the "formula" the show had so far and It speaks to Himmel's gesture in so many ways. 1) The idea that being immortalized in stone does not actually mean you will be remembered forever adds a layer of tragedy to Frieren's fond memories of her friends knowing they will be forgotten as she said they would, despite how hard Himmel tried to avoid it. 2) The idea that Himmels personal gesture to give her something to remember them by is strengthened by the fact that while humans will forget she will indeed be able to remember them easier herself because she directly experienced them. Heightening the personal nature of the "gift" his statues were to her and (positively) devaluing the "joke" that he was doing it for "selfish" reasons as he publicly claimed back then. 3) It sets up Frierens line of questioning for the next time she sees a statue of the hero group... doing what was discussed in this video... using flashbacks as both immediate payoff but also as setup for future moments. Because the next time Frieren sees the group statues... they are talking with an old man about how "this town will never forget the heroes because we celebrate every year". To which Frieren, somberly, interrogates the man with "Will you still be celebrating in 10 years? 100 years? what about a thousand?" Really selling that she did *realize* that Himmel's statues really will be *just for her* before the end of her life span.

@teguhlg 2 месяца назад

Frieren without a doubt the best series that using flashback to the max potential. I hope many writer/director in the future can use Frieren as a reference of how to use flashback and teach it in schools.

@davethelich 2 месяца назад

new/big fan. imo effective flashbacks inform why the character acts they have through the story already, not simply justify what they're doing to move the plot forward.

@danielskroeker 2 месяца назад

This is my favorite series on RU-vid thank you so much for making this I hope these keep getting traction you deserve it.

@kzma009 Месяц назад

What I love the most about ATLA and Freiren is the they both are easy to folloq while not dumbing down their audience. And one of those moment are throughout these flashbacks

@the_catboi 2 месяца назад

Frieren was as good as I expected it to be. Just from the concept alone I knew with the right director it would become an extreme hit. But I did not expect it to be so emotional to the point I cried so many times. And the way I see the characters is different than I do with usual characters. It feels so normal to me. So very real. A show that made me immerse into the story so hard I was so disoriented when the episode ended and my room appeared in my peripheral view, snapping me back to reality. No show has ever achieved that. At least not constantly. So by patiently waiting for this masterpiece to come out I am glad to call this an absolute best of the best shows ever. A show that wants me to be like Himmel and be as pure hearted as stark but as explorative and calm as frieren. I see a lot of them be a fantastic influence on oneself. I look up to most of them and I also try to understand their shortcomings. They are all a different unique person I can get invested in. Everyone is written so carefully I love this show so much.

@todayontheinternet9576 2 месяца назад

Because Himmel loved her, he didn't want her to be alone and forget about him when he was gone (probably more of the second, but still).

@TripleExposurePhoto 2 месяца назад

I love frieren and love hearing you talk about it. This is a great series!

@drencore767 2 месяца назад

I really want to appreciate all the people posting positive comments and this community being just really nice and sharing their own thoughts. Thank you all of being kind!

@Neropol14 2 месяца назад

And then you have the Acolyte with a 40-minute backstory that didn't introduce any emotional weight.

@MurkyTheSquid 19 дней назад

when i caught the reveal of the emotional weight of the statues that we see throughout the show up til this episode, and are given the reasoning why Himmel wanted them made so frequently? i was a blubbering, sobbing mess on the phone w my gf when the episode ended we had to pause and both just sit there for a while and cry while considering everything we'd just learned 1. Himmel realized that Frieren must be sad that she's probably the only person alive who remembers Flammes' face 2. He told Frieren that he wants to be remembered.. the HERO from the heros' party that defeated the demon king and will surely go down in history as one of the biggest household names of legend (i.e. King Arthur status) but not just by the world.. but by HER specifically 3. he then goes out of his way to have statues commisioned everywhere so that she never has to be alone after he inevitably passes and leaves her to the weary world alone bro.. my heart was DEMOLISHED

@ObiwanNekody 2 месяца назад

Frieren shows why tropes ended up overused and worn down all over the place.

@CalmClamFam 2 месяца назад

Yeah because they’re good if done right but soooo many shows/series never take the time to setup and build off of said tropes. Studios, writers, etc are either on a time crunch, are inexperienced, or are pressured to include/exclude certain scenes which inevitably impacts the overall story.

@xxkankala1671 2 месяца назад

@@CalmClamFami mean theirs a difference between a show and a manga based anime. One actually has time to do that

@ObiwanNekody Месяц назад

@@CalmClamFamindeed

@TheBaldrickk 2 месяца назад

Best flashback ever: The beginning of the movie Serenity. It's a narration of the overall history setting the grand introduction of the setting, which is actually a school history lesson for one of the main characters, beginning her introduction, but then is revealed to be a drug/technology induced dream she was having as it shows her being experimented on (and some other details) which sets up the basis for the entire plot of the movie. Her brother rescues her, introducing him as a character, but then everything freezes and is rewound by the movie's antagonist as it's revealed to be holographic security footage, and is used to set the stage for his pursuit of the protagonists while introducing is not only to his character, but also his character traits and a key move that becomes extremely relevant in the movies climax. All before the opening credits/music Seriously, it's a masterclass in introducing disparate elements and subversion of expectations.

@junkheadrooster 5 дней назад

Makes me want to rewatch the whole dang thing again :'

@marcello46 7 дней назад

These flashbacks made me realize frieren had a total of 2 outfits in 1000 years dripless fr

@TankSenior 18 дней назад

Great video. I must say I am very impressed that you were as succinct as you were. Often these essay type videos drag on easily for twenty minutes or more. Even the good ones have a tendency to be longer than needed. Well done!

@matthewglenguir7204 2 месяца назад

Absolutely been loving your Frieren videos

@JavanAnime 2 месяца назад

Always excited to watch a new Frieren video from you

@IvoryHourglass 2 месяца назад

I look forward to these weekly

@mikkunmikkichi3762 Месяц назад

It's not really a good idea to categorize frieren's "flashbacks" as flashbacks. Frieren's storytelling is quite unique that it actually tells you 2 stories simultaneously. Other animes will not benefit from doing the same. A normal flashback is meant to give minor supplements to the current plot. If it's removed, some flavors of the plot will be missed, but it will remain stable. However in frieren's case , if you remove the "flashbacks" you basically cut the story in half and it's no longer a good one. . So, frieren's are not real flashbacks, rather, they are actual story of the past that's running alongside the current plot.

@DrPsychotic Месяц назад

The worst kind of flashback is when it’s in the middle of a fight and they make it clear a “final blow” was just struck but before they confirm death the entire flashback mode for 75% of the episode and only just now give you the characters entire backstory and try to tack on reasons for you to like them now even if they were a character you might not of liked cause they didn’t give you the backstory untill now as they are dead

@edgytheedgehog8618 Месяц назад

Yes, the Demon Slayer path. Absolute garbage.

@vonmusel6158 3 дня назад

If it's any show that warrants a flashback it's Frieren. It's paced so well and ties in to deliver the "Beyond journey's end" we are witnessing. Just because one Great or even greatest Journey ends does not mean life beyond is uneventful and flat, it's a journey of redemption for Frieren to more fully appreciate human life in Fern, a chance to retry the great exam of life's mystery. Instead of disappointed in human life she is appreciative.

@Argidisparken 2 месяца назад

Another excellent video. I'll be sad when it eventually comes to a close.

@blackgooseman Месяц назад

could not help but think about the current arc in JJK for this video. succinctly well put, pey!

@Ayame55555 2 месяца назад

Thank you so much for another informative video to love! 🌸🥰

@emperordragon1794 26 дней назад

haven't watched the vid but the reason flashbacks works in frieren is because we like the characters. we want to know and see more of Himmel, Heiter and Eisen.

@untitled.958 2 месяца назад

I really love this videos amazing work

@Ranemoraken Месяц назад

To some degree, the flashbacks in Frieren are extremely disruptive when it's in the middle of their fights, such as during Aura, and the clone fights. I do wonder if it was necessary to spend minutes on end explaining why Frieren was about to dunk Aura through a basketball hoop in their fight, instead of making the reveal and explaining it later. (or when Ubel cuts the hair of sense, etc.) While the flashbacks, by themselves, are interesting and necessary, I do wonder how one might better interweave them into the story. Perhaps it is not possible. I'm of the belief that once a fight starts, it shouldn't be interrupted unless you're delivering a real shock - and that should only be done within the fight itself.

@NemoPropaganda Месяц назад

Subbed, on vid 3, great work!

@bigswisschh 2 месяца назад

Great job Pey! This is a great series.

@bernieburton6520 2 месяца назад

Flashbacks work great for this story because it's how we explore the entire life and experiences of a lonely immortal, going back over the past millennium, while following them on their current journey of self reflection and personal understanding. We're exploring Frieren's memories and how she felt in the past vs how she feels in the present.

@ShadowGuadian 9 дней назад

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the original star wars trilogy employed any flashbacks.

@chadgrimwell8380 2 месяца назад

Nice video 👍

@danielosawaru9045 Месяц назад

All I can say "WOW"

@untitled.958 2 месяца назад

To me one of the best episode that used flashback and foreshadowing amazingly was Episode 10 The battle between Frieren and Aura it is perfectly balance

@mikoikho 2 месяца назад

Pretty cool to see this vid on my recommended while watching How I Met Your Mother lol

@salekinj 2 месяца назад

So good

@any.user.allowed. 2 месяца назад

I love the rhyme with your name

@gendissaray 2 месяца назад

Book of Boba Fett used them in the exact opposite way.

@Dryltd 21 день назад

Are flashbacks the child of "show don't tell" in moving pictures. Because I don't know of any in plays and very few in books.

@garticbread День назад

Who is letting this man cook! They need a medial of honor!

@kairemeriniit 22 дня назад

And yet i have not seen any good inferences without explanations in flashbacks or expositions....

@CoyotesOwn 23 дня назад

Note: Lucas was dead set on not using flashbacks in Star Wars. This is why we got pre-teen Anakin as a protagonist, rather than having a flashback to his childhood.

@FahboyMan2549 2 месяца назад

I don't know if it can be called flashback or not, but the flashback during Frieren vs Frieren battle in EP. 27 felt very misplaced and disruptive to the flow of the battle. TBF, I don't know where or how else should it be shown either.

@bernieburton6520 2 месяца назад

It's that way in the Manga, but, it's one chapter while the actual fight is the next chapter. Although in the Manga they clearly showed the imitation Frieren blocked Fern's first attack in the last page of the chapter. So it flows better in the Manga because it's two separate chapters. The fight is also a lot shorter in the Manga. The anime extended and added battles to the anime we don't actually see in the Manga. Of course, the animation studio wanted to make the battles in this arc look amazing. Especially the battles against the imitations. The battles in the Manga are very quick and not the point of the story after all.

@rayfwu 2 месяца назад

"Take a second to think of a famous story without a flashback" Star Wars. Specifically the original and prequel trilogies and not the sequel trilogy.

@MirecU 2 месяца назад

Hmm... flashbacks in Frieren are presented as someones (usually Frieren's) memories and are enhanced/understood by present events... like the Stark's flashbacks about how he is a coward and that he run away when his village needed his help and then realizing that it was his brother's wish for him to survive... and the realization that his birthdays were actually celebrated by the ones that loved him...

@dunge604 2 месяца назад

What is the background music here called? 5:35

@PeyTalksAnime 2 месяца назад

Sentient - Gavin Luke

@dunge604 2 месяца назад

@@PeyTalksAnime thank you!

@Elementisphere Месяц назад

2:52 I don't think LOTR has any flashbacks

@Profat6 2 месяца назад

A show without flashbacks? Death Note. And that was one of my biggest complains about that show.

@xxkankala1671 2 месяца назад

Wait what show uses flashbacks poorly

@Fukumen01 2 месяца назад

naruto

@vingvingduy1779 2 месяца назад

DS also has way too many flashbacks. And some of them are just really bad...

@KhaoticKosmos 2 месяца назад

A vast majority of anime both old and new use flashbacks poorly. Its faster to list the ones that don't.

@vingvingduy1779 2 месяца назад

@@natalimoina the placement and the amount of flashbacks in the sereis isnt well executed. you cant make us feel for every demon tanjiro kills if you just show us the same kind of cutscene every time. There are well done and interesting ones, but the majority of them just fall flat. pacing: especially season 3 was jarring, you had in the span of like 3 episodes 5 different flashbacks, some of them taking a major amount of the episode. Do you feel satisfied after hearing the love hashira`s backstory or any of the upper moons introduced there (genyas was kinda vital for the brother`s realationship but the rest were meh)? also the lack of build up for the majority of power ups and instead the use of flashbacks to justify them is just a common shonen trope which is done mixed in ds. (still love the series, but you can clearly see all the faults in that show)

@xxkankala1671 2 месяца назад

@@KhaoticKosmosi doubt that

@MEDelekates 4 дня назад

yeah, Frieren works well with flashbacks. Except one, Frieren and Flamme first time meeting. Imo, this was done poorly, I was disappointed for a while. After watching the show many times I understood why. Mainly timing in anime - classic between battle flashback eating whole screen time, it was like watching naruto/bleach again, that is why I really try to avoid watching ongoing. Secondary, this is flashback that establishes main personality of Sousou no Frieren, main contributor to demon extinction. Both Flamme and Frieren hate demons, Flamme ends up giving Frieren ultimate weapon of deceiving against demons, this had to be THE best place to include this flashback, yet it was simply done bad. Too long and miss placed in the show. Probably manga readers had better experience, kind of Might Duy flashback treatment.

@andershour 2 месяца назад

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh cause shes FLASHing briefly BACKwards to a prior event and time in her life through memory i see

@Zinjo 2 месяца назад

fire :)

@PeyTalksAnime 2 месяца назад

No u 🔥

@Koenig_Michi 2 месяца назад

Yes you 🌊

@captives7664 2 месяца назад

took me 4 videos to realize ur the atrioc musix guy

@PeyTalksAnime 2 месяца назад

Lmaoooo let's gooo. Welcome

@mattersondoom Месяц назад

If u like frieren and the world building i recomend u to watch mushoku tensei a master class on how to properly tell a story and make it belliavable

@jayman445 27 дней назад

The glaze this show gets is crazy. It’s objectively mid and isn’t very innovative. Also bringing up ATLA just makes your arguments invalid and shows your a normi 🤣