servus christi seems to think everyone is bad, he is very self-righteous sounding. I have tried to listen to him but usually can't get through a whole video.
Much agreed. His words won't hold much weight since he's outside of the local church. He's quite literally an enemy of the church. Who in Scripture is described as the enemy and the accuser of the brethren?
Thank you for this, I really loved discernment ministries and now I’m realizing that I did harm to my faith instead of actually grow and show fruits of the Holy Spirit.
@@eduardoan777 I also noticed that a lot of them focus completely on calling people out (which isn’t a bad thing in itself) but don’t actually offer any good or biblical teaching in their place. It may not be the intent but it eventually starts to feel like gossip in the end.
Well said. In my experience, many times Christians who espouse certain theological errors do not subscribe to the entire theological paradigm that those errors often part of. In other words, people may believe certain specific errors, but not the entire paradigm they are often taught in by the most active promoters of that error. Then, from a practical perspective (as well as a moral one), the harshness of many discernment ministries push people toward the very whole paradigm that is heretical. The result is that the cause of truth is damaged, not strengthened.
Great video pastor, I totally agree: Pulpit and Pen is toxic. I do not understand why some continue associating with them unaware or unconcerned with the damage it does to thier own ministries.
Chris Rosebrough does a good job pointing out what the text says and why it's wrong and spends a lot more time in the word than in the dumpster fires and that is why I like him.
FFTF became a lot more text-focused after Chris Rosebrough became a pastor. Back when I started listening in 2014, it was a lot more of error-pointing. He would go through a "Bad Sermon" with a fine-toothed comb and then simply play a "Good Sermon" with no commentary (which he could have done to talk about what makes a "good" sermon good). I agree that in recent years, he's put a lot of emphasis into looking at the text and being pastoral about it, giving reassurance of God's promises, etc. Was FFTF as bad as Pulpit and Pen? Certainly not! But, Chris Rosebrough was still friends with P&P up until the time that JD Hall got a DUI.
I'd agree, although the flip side I've seen is any video offering any criticism being labeled as a discernment ministry. Thus, say, Mike Winger critiquing Bethel graciously, and carefully presenting the gospel, would be put in the same category as someone mocking or slandering an opponent.
I think in many cases that "discernment ministries" is a misleading etiquette. True discernment involves analysis. Pointing out errors is a small part of that. Good analysis takes hard work, and also requires love for those you are analyzing. That makes it much more fruitful in the long run, although on the surface you seem to be less productive, since it takes more time to get something out.
Careful there homes, I was brought to the Lutheran Church by a discernment ministry. sometimes you do need to know the bad stuff to really appreciate the good stuff...Just saying. Thanks for your vids thought, keep up the good work pastor J.
On reading the title, I was like; what in the world could be wrong about a ministry with focus on discernment. But from your description it seems to me that discernment in this context means the exact opposite of discernment. Discernment to me is most of the time self-focused, because it's almost always our selves and our motives that get in the way of understanding others. Tribal instincts, ego protection, pride, etc. it is about trying to see ones true motives. It is that ability too see past exteriors, see that that rude and obnoxious neighbour is actually struggling and needs to experience love from a friend to grow, and not yet another rebuke. It's also about forbearance for external mistakes, and seeing past it, seeing the internal struggle in people. It is about seeing (and wsiting for) that moment where help might actually be offered. It is about trying to understand both oneself and others, rather than judge and rebuke.
I think critics are intellectually immature. They're either people who are young and just getting started with theological thinking and writing (such as writing reviews and critiques) or they have been critical for many years and have never properly matured intellectually, and remain at a low intellectual level. Creativity in theological writing is, for such people, impossible. Instead, they are capable only of tearing down the creative works of others.
AJ McDonald Jr - yes the critical spirit on people can be easily discerned - sad really. Especially for self-proclaimed Christians who have taken upon themselves the role of Chief Sage and Corrector of the Brethren.
Thank you for your frankness and your restraint... I've very much enjoyed your channel and appreciated several videos like this one. May God continue to bless your ministry!
He’s going after JD Hall and he should really rethink that because it’s not going to end well. Cooper should use his time and effort to be the head of his house.
I believe Fighting for the Faith should share in this criticism because of Chris's continual association with Pulpit and Pen. It is a black mark on Rosebrough's ministry.
This talk is really on point, I've experienced first hand the self righteousness that it can bread. It's kinda off putting but that's a reflection of how I can come off sometimes. Lord please break our hearts in Jesus name
@Jordan Cooper What books are good for reading the church fathers writings? I'm having a hard time trying to get a compact volume that contains the various writings?
Thank you for this video. You said so much that has been brewing within my heart for years now… And gave it words! “enragement ministries” is usually what I see … sad. Poor witness to the unsaved onlooking world.
It shouldn’t be difficult to discern most aberrant teaching as they are little more than snake handlers. However, I would like to see some discussion on the effect that Gnosticism has had on the contemporary church.
From what you have said on other videos i think youd clarify some of those proponents as not "Christians" in the bliblical sense.its good you dont seek to critique those in turn. Speak the truth in love
Did Dr. Cooper cite even one example of the DM being wrong. Plenty about being mean, should be banned, majoring in minor issues - in other words their approach. I noticed the two graven images (crucifixes) in the video. Is that a major or a minor thing, or does it have to be a pentagram to count?
This is a disappointing video. In the comments Dr. Jordan makes it clear he is condemning Pirate Christian Radio as well. What I find particularly frustrating and passive-aggressive is the broad brush defamation of discernment ministries' characters without any specifics. No one can rebut slander without witnesses or, interestingly enough, much use of scripture. Overall I am quite fond the Dr.s work, but this seems unworthy. Whenever I hear ministers start speaking at length without scripture or specifics, I get suspicious.
Self righteous? Overly critical? Humm? Kinda like what you are doing...to discernment ministries. I’m going to call you a jerk because you call people jerks. Oh okay got it. This guy says that the discernment ministries don’t know what they are talking about while the whole time he has Roman Catholic crucifixes behind him. So people who are with Pulpit and Pen are lost because they are feisty but the RCC are brothers because of their meekest? How about doctrine dude? Does that matter at all? So Jordan Cooper now gets to decide who gets a platform and no one should EVER give JD a platform to speak his “hate filled” message...Humm? Seems like we’ve heard this kind of suppression tactics from some political organization before...Who could it be? Thinking, thinking...wait I bet you could guess...(it’s the party that begins with a D)
This is the behavior he's talking about. I'm not convinced for one second you actually watched the video. I can tell by your comment that you are indeed ticked off. Are you always ticked off? He isn't saying it's wrong to call out false doctrine, but to focus on that exclusively and to call everyone a heretic makes you a causer of division among brothers. We know that God hates it when people do that. People who call others out obsessively, twist their opponent's words out of context, and are always breeding division are in disobedience. I'm not saying you are in disobedience, I don't know you very well. However, there are certain channels that I will refuse to watch because they are toxic and I will never work with them because they might be good at calling people out, but are bad at showing grace. I wonder if they even know what Grace is.
