The Problem with Live-Action Robin 

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The best summary I've ever heard about the relationship between Batman and Robin was from Young Justice. Wonder Woman is questioning Batman's decision to train Robin so young. Batman - "Robin needed to bring down the man who murdered his family to justice" Wonder Woman - "So that he could end up just like you?" Batman - "So that he wouldn't"

it’s essential to bruce’s character and for him not to fall into darkness. robin has been around forever and deserves a proper appearance. i’d say 13/15 be a good age for richard

It’s so odd how in Batman: The Animated Series’ second season, Robin was obligated to be in every episode, but he has been shafted in recent years.

If people say “Robin can’t work”, “It brings up too many questions” or “it’s not realistic” they lost the point. The story of Robin isn’t about a kid punching people, it’s a story of two lost souls finding eachother and becoming better through it. It’s important to Batman’s arc of vengeance and mission focused to hope and family. So dumb to suddenly care about realism when the concept is a man dressed as a Bat, have a goddamn sense of humor and idea of what you’re watching/reading.

Robin brings out a side of batman I've missed in his live action outings. Batman as a mentor and parent has dimensions you just can't get from batman as a lone wolf.

Robin could definitely work, even as a teenager. He just would rely more on weapons and acrobatics. Like he normally does

You know how shocked people were to see how young 14 year old Ahsoka really looked in live action? I suspect that's why we'll probably never see a 12 year old Robin in a live action Batman movie.

Everyone who thinks Robin can't fit in a realistic Batman or has too be aged up hasn't read comics at all. In Dark Victory Robin is a literal child yet that never once ruins the atmosphere of the story, and even improves the atmosphere by showing the parallels between the two. Also having an older Robin really ruins the growth of Batman as Batman being a father to a young robin is important for him to grow.

The episode Robins Reckoning from the animated series where Bruce is comforting a 10 year old Greyson is probably the best moment on screen that I've seen of the two's relationship.

The real reason is just that having a child actor play Robin means you can only film with them for so many hours as well as several other caveats. Making Robin an adult means you can film on a regular schedule

Something I'd love to see is a stand-alone film focusing on the bat-family specifically, with Bruce taking a backseat and exploring the dynamics between Nightwing & Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin, and Damian.

You got to love the honesty of your son for that question , a child’s honesty is pure as f*ck I always respected that about children because we lose that about ourselves as we become older as Adults. 👏🏾

I really liked the HBO Titans series. The relationships between the young heroes were mature and intriguing and made me want to watch it more. But I'm interested in seeing some version of Robin (Damina) as the son of Batman who was trained by his grandfather, Raja Rhu and the League of Assassins.

I remember a Kevin Smith’s anecdote. Late 90s he made a low hanging fruit joke about Batman and Robin’s relationship. A DC writer told him: Don’t do that. Most people who joke about their relationship don’t understand it. Batman sees in Robin the childhood that he never had, Robin sees in Batman the man he wants to become. For their relationship to work Robin HAS to be young. That was one of the many reason why their relationship was so awkward in Batman & Robin (1997). Chris O’Donnell was 27 when he played Robin. The age difference was not too obvious to have a father/son, mentor/disciple relationship. Robin looked and acted like a grown man riding a motorcycle hoping that another adult adopts him. I think Robin can work on tv and movies just fine. As several people mentioned here already take advantage of the flexibility and acrobatic skills of a well trained young actor. If Marvel can make me feel sympathy for a tree and a talking raccoon… I’m pretty sure DC can make a Robin work.

I think the main problem is that Hollywood treat Batman the way Marvel editors treat Spider-man. They have an idea of who Batman is supposed to be, and they don't allow him to deviate from that. Everything has to be dark and gritty for some reason. I want the definitive version of Batman that brings together all the aspects that make up the character, including the campiness.

The problem with Robin is that most of them are underage.

Great video, man. I for one really, really want to see Robin done right in The Batman 2. I think that a teenaged Dick Grayson can be introduced and a true relationship can develop between he and Bruce. There should be several dialogue scenes along with lots of live-action training, which could also double as Bruce revealing his own backstory that was missing from the first installment. I'd like to see Alfred and also Lucius Fox playing a large role in the sequel as Batman grows while at the same time flashbacks are shown depicting his origin. That said, I am looking for The Batman 2 to be both a sequel as well as a prequel, much like The Godfather 2 was. We may get to see Dick suit up as Robin towards the end of the film for the final confrontation sequence, but even if we don't it should set up The Batman 3 to portray an all-out Dynamic Duo protecting Gotham. This third installment could also show The Joker escaping from Arkham to team up with other villains, including a question mark-suited Riddler. I have very high hopes for Matt Reeves' The Batman films and how they will stack up against the gold standard, Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight Trilogy.

In the golden age, Robin looked like he was somewhere in the 8-10 year-old range. That made sense with the target market being chiefly in that same range. I'm wanting to say Robin was vaguely somewhere in the teenage range during the silver age (although golden and silver ages were retconned to be different universes). Someone in the 8-10 range, even well trained, would be hard pressed to have the hitting power to really fight effectively. The silver age version might be more plausible (perhaps 14 or 15 years-old). Now, a big pitfall for this is that kids noticeably age more than adults. Casting someone younger would be difficult for successive movies. On a side note, constantly skipping over the "dynamic duo" phase to rush into problems between the two is hardly without precedent. The movies keep trying to skip over the Phoenix Saga with the X-Men to get to the Dark Phoenix Saga (even the X-Men: Evolution cartoon does this, although the 90's cartoon does actually do the initial Phoenix Saga).

I do appreciate titans a lot. Like you said it explores the idea that it sucks to be a robin, which has never been touched on in live action

There are 2 major problems studios have had with putting a young Robin on film. 1. Child endangerment (Why is Batman endangering this innocent kid?) 2. Gay subtext (why is this adult man hanging out with this teenage boy?). Damian Wayne solves both of these issues. He's already an assassin (so Batman isn't putting him in more danger than before), and he's Batmans literal son (making the father/son dynamic literal makes Bruce personally responsible for Damian)

Robin provided someone for Batman to interact with as well as an avatar for younger readers. I don't think there's an issue with broadening the appeal of the series as opposed to being closed off to more adult audiences. Robin can add levity without forcing Batman to change his tone or personality.

No one asked Damian Wayne to be born. 😂

I think that issue is that DC and subsequently DC fans have a mythologized version of these characters. They aren't allowed to be real. They have to be their "golden" age version, nothing more nothing less

I want a true to source Robin in live action so bad. I always loved the idea, it’s not like it won’t fit, we have so many amazing stories that include Robin already but WB thinks everyone’s gonna hate it

Even with child actor requirements aside, the difficulty of having a child Robin in live action is that you have to somehow address the issue of Batman putting a child repeatedly in dangerous situations, without coming to the conclusion that this is a bad thing. If it’s a more light-hearted tone, this is less of an issue, but when you’re going for grim, gritty, and more realism, that’s a harder pill to swallow.

The live action Nightwing on titans was perfect. The show wasn’t great and they really messed up Red Hood, but they nailed nightwing

The reason the age thing was always an issue was because imitatable violence can and does lead to child injury when not portrayed correctly. Things were too strict back then but given some of the rising imitatable violence I've seen in recent kids movies, like TMNT, makes me wonder if we learned the wrong lesson from that. It's tough. One hand Robin is important but on the other hand you really do have to be careful what messages you're sending kids. Hopefully Gunn has some good ideas

Nightwing has worn red(after the film) and tho I don't remember any capes there was a time he had armpit webs like Spidey

I think the problem with Robin in live action is that it becomes really weird seeing an actual kid fight bad guys. I can’t think of a successful live action movie about a literal child going around and getting punched by grown men. It’s ok when it’s a cartoon, because that’s a sort of abstraction, but when you see it with a real twelve year old, then you realized how messed up it is.

Most normal people consider deliberately bringing a minor to a crime scene to be child abuse.

The Batman Forever Robin should've been called Nightwing from the start. Skip the Robin period altogether. That's the only way the character can ever work in live action

The big and primary worst problem about DC comics robin is that I cannot even relate to him because they always gonna show him as a child.

Be glad to see Robin added, but only if this becomes a five movie series, not a trilogy

I think the issue is that DC is obsessed with a dark and gritty Batman and not the real Batman

“Every child’s dream, except the horrible death of your parents part”. Hush has entered the chat.

I think a child Robin could work in live action but it would have to lean more into the camp elements, think Hit Girl from Kick Ass, if the audience is supposed to realistically buy a child fighting adult villains - and I’m not sure the Battinson films could pull off that tone. What I think could work better in the Battinson films is a high school age Robin (around 14-17 years old) that would better fit the tone of the films

The issue with a live-action version of Robin being a 12-year-old is that it makes Batman look like a child abuser. Dress up in bright colors and face people will machine guns with a stick.

I just rewatched Batman Forever and Robin being a child never took me out the movie him being aged up also didn't bother me because I get at the time it might have been tough to sell a 9yr old sidekick to general audiences back then but general audiences now know far more about Superheroes. One of DC many advantages of other big IP is they have the most famous child sidekicks and it's time to embrace them.

I think Damien might be the one Robin that would work in live action. Idk why, itd just be weird to see an actual child Robin in live action, I don't want to feel like I should call CPS on Batman. But having a kid thats been trained as an assassin from birth, insisting on being Robin, and trying to get him to be normal in any way instead, that'd work. Then it would be more "OK fine, you can help me just stop _beheading_ people, Jesus" and less "All Star Batman"

Honestly, what type of credible actor wants to be seen essentially using a kid as a child solider without the narrative calling it out as the evil thing it is? Also, on a related note, the moment that a Robin dies on screen or is seriously hurt fighting crime is probably when most people would stop rooting for Batman and ask why isn't he in jail for child endangerment at the bare min. And considering that all of the 5 canon Robins have either died or been seriously hurt while crime fighting as either Robin or one of their other identities, even if people wouldn't be calling for Batman's head, they would think he's a shitty parent and a bad person for allowing them to partake in such a dangerous lifestyle.

Agree with lot of these points. The problem with DC movies/shows is that they are too damn dark and serious. What the MCU did right is trying to balance humor, lighter points, and the positive/negative aspects of relationships. Batman and Robin need the positive push/pull as well as portraying the burdens of being under Batman's wing. Even the comics have taken it literally where Robin saves Batman physically and through hope.

Batman legally can't incorporate The Boy Wonder in today's day and age live action - he'd be cancelled for grooming a minor.

Glad to see you're acknowledging 40s Robins. Even if you don't seem to be diving into them much

Awesome video. I remember watching the 90s cartoon Batman series and Robin was definitely a highlight character. It would be a real treat to get a new Robin in a new live action movie. I definitely hope that it does work out. You are indeed right that he is part of what draws in the younger audience and that he inspires hope. I really do hope that James Gunn and Matt reeves will take the classic character seriously and give us the robins that we truly deserve! Fingers crossed for now!

It's hard to say you want a dark, gritty and realistic movie but also say you want a 12-yr-old boy to be fighting adult villains.

I think a robin like the young justice season 1 would be perfect

Nicely done, nick

You forgot how Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character's real name was revealed to be Robin at the end of The Dark Knight Rises.

@KeyIssues you forgot to mention the live action The Dark Knight's Robin. John Blake, the Gotham Police Officer who either legally changed his name to Robin or was just starting to use the name.

Look at the recent Ahsoka episode and the flashback scenes, most people's natural reaction is "oh hey that's a child soldier, this is kind of fucked up". In a cartoon or a comic, that isn't as in front of you as it is when there is an actual child actor on screen. It just does not work, you can't have it like in the comics, it's gonna look fucked up because these are different mediums. You could use that to tell a deconstruction of some sorts but something tells me fans won't like that. honestly fans come of as delusional and naive in those "batman needs robin" speeches. they wouldn't work in court lol, Bruce would go straight to jail.

Thank you, video maker. You make a good point. I did like watching Chris O, donell as a kid but he was to old for the role its like he went straight to playing Nightwing there was no scenes of Bruce training him he meet Bruce fully trained in martial arts we needed to see his growth and his relationship with his father figure and mentor develope like luke and Yoda or Mr Miyagi and Daniel san.

I think a great source of inspiration the writers could pull from when writing Batman and Robin is God of War 2018. That game perfectly shows the relationship between a stoic and emotionally distant mentor and an arrogant but well meaning son

Do you think Matt Reeves' Robin would have the same Circus performer backstory? Or would they change it to fit the times/universe

It can work. But it'd be extremely difficult to pull off. Lets even look at his outfit. Batman is literally armored from head to toe. In the movies this is realistic to us when fighting armed adult men. Even in the BvS warehouse scene he was shot in his head twice. Showcasing the importance of being fully armored. Robin doesn't wear a helmet. Now you'll have to figure out how to sell this to an audience that he can survive fights with armed gunman with no helmet on. Thats extremely challenging.

The problem with Robin now is we live in a World where a grown man taking in a teenage Ward is a little odd. Also the last decade or so Batman is a true loner except for his relationship with Alfred. I think if they were to start with Nightwing and show him as a youth might work better. But watching Batman fight criminals with a kid in red, yellow and green Underoos would be weird as heck.

I would love to see cassandra cains batgirl done justice in the big or small screen

Yeah Tim Burton's Batman being with the flash in that kind of setting did make me pretty sad it could have been better, I really would have liked to have seen Tim Burton's third Batman with his Robin to see Michael Keaton and how he would reacted and acted with his own Robin

My problems started with Damian Wayne 😅

I do not who came up with it but the bit in the titans show about the reason robin is in bright colors to draw fire was brilliant.

"you can't have comic accurate costumes.... give the x- men black leather" 10 years later, they give the xmen yellow and blue costumes and it rejuvinates the movie genre. "you can't adapt an anime like.... it's too unrealistic. Cowboy Bebop needs to be adapted for modern audiences" 5 years later, One Piece was a significantly better adapta tion and is a huge hit.

It would be difficult to have a 10-12 year old be able to fight adults and be believable. Also the whole child endangerment angle for live action.

I always thought the Burt Ward Robin was pretty good .

Cool video! Well done!

I believe the actual reason as to why we haven't seen comic book accurate version of Robin in terms the Batman live action film franchise is because it would be too problematic for Batman to train a child solider to fight homicidal criminals of Gotham. I just wish more fans would put this into consideration when discussing a live action Robin, as opposed to just thinking that being accurate to the comics is the only thing that matters. I mean, haven't the comics and animated shows addressed this problem in Batman's history in regard to Robin? I'm not saying that comic book accurate portrayal of Robin can't work in a live action film, I just think the child solider aspect of his character cannot be ignored in order to "give fans what they want."

It would be cool if in The Batman 2 they can adapt the "We are Robin" story arc. For those who don't know, it's the arc that introduces Duke Thomas. "We are Robin" is a vigilante group comprised of Gotham's youth to assist Batman. If they do that, then we can get all of our favorite Robin's and side characters at the same time without things getting convoluted.

Robin has always been one of my favorite characters

Batman and Robin type relationships on screen that work: Don Draper/Peggy (Madmen), Newman/Cruise (Color of Money), Bert Reynolds /Marc Wahlberg (Boogie Nights).

Spider-Man also has the best supporting cast in comics along with the best rogues gallery.

Why do they want to hurry up and rush to nightwing when you need a proper batman and robin movie and a build up to the dc universe to warrant the teen titans then you can get nightwing but just rushing to him would suck

I think we all forgetting kick ass had Chloe grace moretz killing goons left and right in an R rated movie and she was badasss

Before I watch the video, let me say I think because of child labor laws. If the laws are followed, you can only work so many hours a day maybe a certain number of days a week they could work. I think also because of the jokes that people make already about Batman living with a little boy who is not his son. It's also the issue of people saying that a kid moving and fighting like he does, isn't realistic. To this I say, a lot of action films are not realistic. You also have to think about the violence in the film and any child being around that. I think choose 16 or older for Robin's age and just get an adult that looks younger. I hope the character gets a good plot and actor to play him.

Someone made the point that no matter how well trained and skilled a 10-12 yo boy is, it’s highly unlikely that said kid would be able to inflict pain/injury on grown men/women the way he is expect to.

Thank you so much 😊

The streets aint made for teenagers, especially now Batman as a character is grounded in reality. Hard to take Robin serious.

I'd like to see a logan style batman. Batman is old and frail. He has to help Robin fight crime while he struggles with his age.

You didn't recall the Robin reference in "The Dark Knight Returns". I know it wasn't good and fans often make fun of the clumsy introduction to the character, but in my opinion it was interesting: seeing a Batman partner coming from police background was new and had a bit of potential. Sure he probably shouldn't have been called Robin. Especially considering that there was no plan for a sequel or a spin-off. That move really seemed just like a tease to the audience, and understandably people didn't buy into it. But, after all you might have considered it in your otherwise excellent review.

Great video

9:30 When the film just came out and there were rumors about a Batman solo film within the DC movie universe. I imagined it roughly like this: Nightwing returns to Gotham and tries to help Batman return to his original path and dissuade him from cruel methods, and in the end Bruce takes Tim under his wing and makes him the new Robin, at the end they could have made a reference to the Red Hood for the sequel. I was 14 then and I liked the interaction between Batman and Robin (thanks to the animated series), I was sad that Robin never appeared in Nolan’s films (as well as Azrael in the third film)

I honestly think 16 would be the sweet spot for a live action Robin

I’m a bit unsure about James Gunn robin if there is multiple robins in the movie, the movie is probably going to be a mess of too much information or too less and is going to lose the audience especially for the first movie… i think that a movie with one robin and the introduction of a second robin at the end of the picture is probably the way to go

It might be reasonable to have Robin do reconnaissance and spy type work ONLY until around14-15. Until that point no direct fighting for Robin. When it IS time, Batman can select a smaller thug for Robin's first 1v1 and watch over. Robin has been training for this moment for a few years, wins, and continues to develop his abilities throughout his teens. Simple.

Robin can be introduced as a 9/10 year old, and still debut as a 14/15 year old vigilante a la Spider-man without the whole "training child soldiers" thing, also, he could follow Batman on his own or provide other skills outside of physical combat if they want to go the route of him being a sidekick! It saves you the outcry!

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Dark Knight Rises version of Robin. I bet you probably thought that one doesn't count, right?😅

The reason why live action stuff has Robin as an adult is because it’s pretty messed up for Batman to bring a 10-13 year old kid with him to fight dangerous criminals that are too tough for the police to handle. That’s a problem with the basic premise of Robin but it’s much easier to sort of ignore it if you’re reading a comic or watching a cartoon. If you actually see a child actor portraying Robin in a live action movie, the problems with Robin’s age become way more blatant.

I'd say you're forgetting 'John Blake' in the Nolan films who had a last minute reveal of being 'Robin'

Batman is a lone warrior who has the worlds largest family to assist him in war.... bringing a kid into battle is wrong and also shows how weak the henchmen are.

If HIT-GIRL worked, so can ROBIN.

This couldn't be better timed with the release of Ahsoka Ep. 5.

I’m gonna scream if I see one more comment on ,”they wanna see Redhood in Batman 2”, or, “I want Damian Wayne!”. NO. Do they realize how much PRECIOUS TIME and MATERIAL there is between all those???They should do this slowly and begin with a little Richard Grayson. We ain’t seeing Redhood it wouldn’t even remotely make sense and we’re not getting Damian and Tim because that’s a CRAZY TIME JUMP.

Good points of view.... Still, would be interesting to presente Grayson as a kid. 'Cause then, new fans would learn the story from the beginning.

They shouldn't have targeted the burton movies to kids

I feel like a good way to do a live action Robin is to introduce him in a Teen Titans movie. It'll allow him to develop a character and set the tone for a future Batman movie where it would be easier to play off of each other's tone

There’s a lot of ways a young (and by young I mean 13-15, not 9) live-action Robin could help Batman without getting directly involved in fighting. He could do reconnaissance, intel gathering, helping gather clues and offering another perspective during detective work, giving emergency first aid to injured civilians or even Batman himself. Robin does all this stuff when he’s a kid, and in the meantime spends some years training so that he can do actual fighting when he’s older. There’s tons of options, you just have to be creative.

Even in the 1960s Batman, it is perhaps significant that the producers passed over Peter Deyell (and Lyle Waggoner). Deyell had a higher, more "boyish" voice and presence. Burt Ward was, I think, about the same age, but when the show first appeared, critics who didn't like it referred to his character as a 'man-boy'. Douglas Croft, at 16, was the youngest 'Robin', in the 1943 serial.

You should’ve told your son, “Because if Batman put an actual child in danger fighting crime, he’d be a villain”. Robin is a great character, but he only works as child when your target audience is exclusively children.

Every time a talk about a live-action Robin being in the/any Batman universe comes up I couldn't help but wonder why DC/WB seems to be having a hard time trying to figure out how to pull it (re the idea of pre-teen kid fighting crime) off when Kick-Ass did it quite perfectly, if not nicely.

Gotta admit... I never really got into the Batman comics, or into any of the animated films or series. I was a big fan of the TV show as a young kid, corny and campy though it was. I also really liked the 1989 film, and Batman Begins. So, having said all of that, I was never (except for when I was a child) a big fan of Robin. I see Batman/Bruce Wayne as dark and brooding. And pairing him up with Robin is, to me, like New Kids on the Block opening for Led Zeppelin. I liked other Batman movies for what they were - relatively entertaining action flicks - but I gotta say, honestly, I think it's been way overdone. Hollywood seriously needs an original idea or two.

Awesome video and II totally for agreee

The actual problem is that casual moviegoers completely misread the relevance of Robin in Batman's evolution as a character. I know lots of people who refuse to watch such a cool, reasonable and infallible character like Batman be accompanied by a child/teen dressed in a garish outfit. It completely devalues common folk's perception of Batman as a powerful, intimidating character. Unfortunately people still take the terrible Batman 66 series as the ultimate reference for Robin. "If an official show presents Robin as a joke, it's because he most definitely is." They take Robin's existence as a joke, a curiosity from those "funny books", just like they take Aquaman.