The Problem With Split And Finding Dory 

Imagine that in Bane's voice.

B Cook Literally no such thing was ever implied. The complete opposite, in fact.

@@RM-cn8pw Well Dory's short term memory seemed to represent a disability but she never really worked around it. They just had her try harder to remember things and it worked which is not really how disabilities work. That's like saying your depression will go away if you just try harder to be happy. What they should've done was instead find a more practical way for her to navigate situations while having short term memory. Like how Dory's parents set up the shells so she'd find her way home. Instead of just drilling information over and over hoping it would stick, they gave her tools to help her find her way.

Teacup Minc Literally all she did was work around her disability. They didn’t just have her “try harder to remember things” at all. “What hey should’ve done was instead find a more practical way for her to navigate situations” That’s literally what they did throughout the whole movie. It’s like you didn’t even watch it.

Teacup Minc “They just had her try harder to remember things and it worked” That literally never happens once in the movie.

Just Another Guy "Oh no, not like the ones from Split." Lmao

This is a very old comment, but I just want to reply to say that I find it funny that your username is one that I've used occasionally

timestamp

@@vivianna8046 6:15

​@@kateg9437this is also a very old comment.

I will listen to this woman and her cynical talk about anything.

"I will listen to her cynical?" What the fuck are you talking about?

OP said cynicism, and Jon tried to tell them they were looking for the word cynical. Which is wrong. As you can clearly see.

+Jon Rogers "Cynicism" is when you're being "cynical". He used the right word.

Something about her passion brings me back to her videos every time.

😭😭NO

I've had similar e.g. the high school production of The Curious Incident Of The Dog In The Nighttime where I thought the lead's portrayal of autism was some hardcore stereotypical Rain Man shit and then afterwards the teacher told me "we're ever so grateful, hope you don't mind, you're so brave, we based the performance on you" (Plot twist, I wasn't actually diagnosed til 19 but to everyone else it was so obvious they assumed I must have already been)

@@AmbroseCadwell oh Christ that’s brutal. That’s so wildly inappropriate of them. Not to mention you’re not like, performance fodder or something. You’re not a zoo animal than can just observe and study. I will never get over the way neurotypical people will treat us like we’re less than human, and then act like something is wrong with US.

@@AmbroseCadwell they didn’t even ask if you were ok with that beforehand?

Did you forget about it?

It's the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" mentality.

yup, instead of finding creative ways to deal with it like toy story theyre just like “get over it and youll be ok!”

"You're really cramping my style with your negative emotional aura."

*baps a wheelchair-bound amputee with a newspaper* Disney said that if you really need to walk you can make that happen so I think it's time you grow some legs you clown

Heard that as a kid, changed my life.

You don’t know what Jenny knows! (Jk I’m sure James McAvoy is lovely)

It was absolutely the best choice

Would it be better, if she had used the actor´s false name?

@@howardpope3932 You mean his ''pseudonym''.

​@@Legendary_Detective-Wobbuffet I just tried a joke about the phrase "the actor's real name". In my opinion, the "real" is unnecessary, because as far as I know, James McAvoy doesn´t have an "unreal" name, but only one name, his real one. What is an "unreal name" supposed to be, by the way? Is it correct to call a pseudonym that way? Please be lenient toward me if my English isn´t perfect. It isn´t my mother tongue. Friendly greetings from Berlin, Germany!

"Hi, I'm Mister Glass, the villain of Unbreakable. Every time I awkwardly twist my ankle, perhaps by simply standing up, a cascade of broken bones causes my entire body to - " Split - "I don't see scars! Nom nom!"

Yup, like imagine someone with a narcissist parent and who had spent their whole life neglected and dehumanized, but they didn’t have scars so I guess they get the chomp

Yeah that bugs me

I haven't seen Split since it came out, but the way I interpreted it (or at least how I remember it now) was that the scars weren't actually a direct result of her abuse, but rather self harm scars, which "only people who self harm deserve sympathy" is still pretty bad, but maybe a little less?

Owen Greenberg Nailed it, my friend. Nailed it.

Owen Greenberg exactly what I was thinking.

Pretty much.

Split was about making people who've experienced horrific trauma into monsters, unfortunately.

Ari Thaumiel thats true....i’m still mad they used DID like that. if they’re going so far to make the beast invulnerable, come up with another reason, like possession or something

This would be an excellent satire of this entire genre of navel-gazing, self-congratulating story

i'm 3 years late, but same lmaooo i was confused as fuck

Yeah same I just assumed they were both Disney movies at first and I got split mixed up with I think it’s called Turbo?

@@winstonchurchill624 LMAO THE SNAIL ONE???

Same😂😂😂😂😂😂I was like 'there was a gun in Inside Out?????? James McAvoy was in it to? Wow, I didn't remember at all'.

@@winstonchurchill624 NOT THE SNAILS 😭

I don't even remember if I've seen this movie, but as far as I remember, the character with DID is portrayed as a victim of abuse and that is the cause of his DID, as you mentioned.

But mentally ill people are also at higher risk of being abusers as well. Also, if we were only ever allowed to write stories that had zero chance of ever offending someone, or were only allowed to show people in a good light, we wouldn't have any stories. Except maybe stuff like three little pigs or little red riding hood, but then furries would probably get offended at implying wolves like to demolish houses by blowing on them, or that they like to eat old ladies.

@@pegleg2959 i get what you say but the issue is that there is almost no movie about DID, so a lot of people are going to watch this movie not knowing what DID is and are going to think that this mental illness is dangerous.

@@marvynromeu3952 what? They're going to think you get superpowerd sticky hands when you've got DID? So that you can climb the walls like a fly? lmao. Give people a bit of credit, I know humans are stupid, but anyone who believes Spilt represents actual DID isn't a person who's option is worth taking seriously, they'll probably believe in aliens and fairies too. Stop looking for a social problem in every little thing, you want to feel righteous and smart like your Liberal studies professors, and because our society is pretty bloody good, the best way to do it just to twist a silly problem into existence and act like your morally superior because you're annoyed. Sorry for the rant, its just everyone turns everything into some righteous social problem, as if the world is made up of weak minded little babies that can't handle a story, or different opinion, or a joke, ect. As if every work of fiction has to be based in absolute fact, incase people might believe it lmao.

@@pegleg2959 stories like split still stigmatize plural people

Also, even though Dory's disability was mostly played for laughs in Finding Nemo, the movie showed she had other skills like knowing how to read or talk to whales. So the overall message for her character was that people with disabilities can still have something valuable to contribute.

Whether it does or doesn't, the more important question is whether it's a good point to be proving. Let's take the example of three of my friends. My first friend has a brother with a cognitive disability. Growing up, their mom treated them differently: while my friend had to do chores and follow rules, her brother did not, because the mom didn't think he'd be able to understand. So of course his behavior is now completely antisocial and his mom is his fulltime caretaker because he can't take care of himself or be around anyone else. My second friend has had a visual impairment since childhood. Her family tried to treat her similarly: she got different rules and expectations than her non-disabled siblings, with the added message that she would not be able to support herself; at best, she could find a husband to take care of her. She is a very independent and determined person, however, so she became the first one in her family to go to college anyway. Unfortunately, because her family had sheltered her growing up, she thought that she'd be given a fair chance and that she could trust people. She's since learned that there are no enforcement mechanisms to ensure that public universities follow ADA regulations (e.g., providing accessible spaces and reasonable accommodations). She's also learned that muggers and rapists like to go for blind girls because 1) they can't identify them and 2) they aren't valued by society. She's survived and learned how to advocate for herself, but it has been a constant struggle. In contrast, my third friend, who was born with cerebral palsy, did have rules and expectations placed on her. She had to do chores, she had to treat her mom and siblings a certain way, she had to get decent grades. Sometimes it was hard for her to do these things, but she always found a way to make it work. And if she couldn't, her mom would help, but only help: she'd never do it for her. This friend started college knowing she'd have to fight for accommodations and respect, so she went in with the ombudsman's number on speed dial. While college and professional life have been a struggle for her because of inaccessible spaces, lack of accommodations, and ableist students, professors, and coworkers, she was ready for the struggle. Telling children with disabilities they can't take care of themselves is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I understand the impulse to protect them, because of how horribly the world treats the disabled, but far too many kids with disabilities who could have and may have wanted to live independently end up living with caretakers or in institutions their whole lives because of it.

Dory is very self sufficient in both films, in the first one whenever she suggests a way forward while Marlin is afraid, she is actually safe. She knows how to navigate the ocean, the times she gets into danger in the second one is when she's trying to follow memory devices other people have given her. She never really relies on the fish around her to caretake.

I dont think it's a bad thing that they show her as still needing people to help her. Lots of disabled people need carers, that's not because they were raised wrong, not because they havent grown up, and not because they are useless. Lots of disabled people of varying abilities want or need help with things. So I think the one good thing that this movie did was show that she is supported by her friends.

@@janeeyre1990 ummm… The way you act like you can compare different people with 3 totally different disabilities as an apples to apples comparison to make a point feels pretty weird to me. - sincerely, a chronically ill person

The thought of this just cracks me up

Critizising is way easier than creating. Those who can they do, those who cant they teach.

Yeah everyone knows "Jenny Nicholson"'s great films and stories. She obviously has the courage to put her heart and soul into a piece of art and release it for cynical monotone RU-vidrs to make videos on

Anthony D Don't be that guy

She was a co-writer of a parody of MLP:FIM called Friendship is Witchcraft that's as good as wrestling rattlesnakes in a rattlesnake party.

@@hansbansor5170 don't drag teachers or people who discuss things. Are you really saying that people who are proficient at a craft never give tips or that craft or analyse it? Should all skilled authors/artists/directors just stay in their bubble, never discussing other people's work?

I mean, we only ever see her in digital images, that is, as patterns of light. So from our perspective, she already *is* an energy being.

CaptHayfever Dann that got deep and weird lol

Jennergy Being

I was afraid to say it

Matthew Craig I just noticed it lol

Well put

I agree. Finding Dory reminded me of a few of my teachers in school. "Oh, you have a diagnosed disorder that makes focusing nearly impossible for you? Have you tried paying attention?"

Yeah it seems like there's a formula movies follow- even if it doesn't make sense, breaks prior plot elements, etc. I get not wanting to deviate so much that nobody can follow the story, but sticking to the formula at the expense of telling a good story just makes it bad.

please don’t compare having adhd to dissociative identity disorder and memory loss 💀💀

The people who made split sure as fuck did not try

remember Sammy Jankis

I only remember the stones and the truck scene

Same. The movie was amazing but had one problem: no memorable moments.

Shady

Come to think of it, that *was* how the marital issues subplot got resolved, wasn't it? Man, that movie is just nothing without the twist.

LOL, “ghost written.” I don’t know if the pun was intentional, but kudos either way. :)

I actually love that concept way more

That's... Such a good idea. Plus, since DID usually stems from ongoing childhood trauma (at least, I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong) then the main character could have DID from her abuse trauma, which you could play as DID being a good thing because she can manipulate the multiple spirits BC she can extrapolate from her own experience or whatever. I guess the risk though is still equating DID with being similar to or on the same level as that violence and danger and instability. Might make more sense to have literally no DID at all but DAMMIT I want better portrayals of DID somewhere.

TotallyMature it would depend on when she was abused - the cut off for trauma that causes DID is about 8, so if she was younger that could work

Or they couldve gone with...... a totally different ending lol

Since he turns into an impervious monster, that would make more sense. Nice profile pic :)

W-what? That's how short term memory loss works? Wow! I never knew.

I can’t tell if this is a troll or not

@@mirandathepandakitty1630 I was being sarcastic, haha. That's what the "/s" tag means :)

Stephen Albright writing films from scratch is very different to finding problems in existing films

But it's a huge step in the right direction. A lot of people just excuse problems in films or don't recognize them at all. Someone who can see all the issues will be more conscious of avoiding such errors in their own writing.

She should be hired as a script doctor

@@chocolatecharley99 scroptor as cool people say

She actually did, you know, create a web series once. It was really good.

Melissa Hitt the portrayal of DID in Split was a misdirection. Obviously people with DID don't develop super powers and begin feasting on the flesh of high school girls..

I mean... sure, but who cares? If you're gonna make a story about DID, don't do that. It's been done. It's tired.

_What a pity, what a pity!_ Oh dear. What a tragedy.

Um.... This movie has aspects of magical realism so not everything is scientifically accurate. He literally turned into a creature by the end?

Saghar Ghezel sure, but there’s this ridiculous view of DID that I don’t like and things like this contribute, even with the ending. It was nonsense.

cool

Thanks man, you're pretty cool too.

Good story, bro.

Alright then.

nice.

Momento Dori

@@Nadia-dn3xw unus annus 😔✨

*Memento

@@mymelody7332 cringe

Jailhouse Lock

You have a point that Dory wasn't the one in need of a lesson about disability but like… that's a hell of a leap to "she shouldn't have been the main character" Disabled people rarely get to be the heroes of their own stories and even more rarely get to be the focus of a story that isn't about disability

@@woodfur00 I’m obviously not saying people with disabilities and mental problems can’t be main characters, be reasonable. The point is she can’t have an arc without it being about overcoming her disability. She has a short term memory problem, what lesson could she possibly learn that wouldn’t be immediately forgotten? More over, I really meant that if they wanted to be be about Dory’s memory problem, it should have been about how the other characters (and her) cope with it, not about how she needs to get over it.

@@GippyHappy I think it could have been done if the mechanism for learning how to cope with her memory problems was more realistic. Instead of "try harder," what if they had researched methods people with memory problems in real life use? There's another comment in this section about using visual cues as a memory trigger.

I don't see why you included the words "except when" in your statement.

No it's that they should wrestle bears and get lots of scars so then future bears might take pity on them.

Abdul Shouaib Ooh I like this

So then he only hurts people who aren't like him then in turn he hopes to make more people be terrible ?

I cannot agree more with this. "The Beast" even says it, "The broken are the more evolved", this "Beast" is clearly telling her and Dennis and Patricia- are that the broken are no longer going to be mocked or made fun or pushed around. That their traumas will be revealed and show them as the stronger of the species, as they will clearly survive whatever purge this "Beast" is planning, as Patricia does mention that he has mentioned targeting larger and larger groups of "impure". I really do see the message of this movie, as it is buried under all of the thriller dramatic themes- is that trauma that makes you "broken", that others belittle and demean one over, actually makes you stronger than those that haven't had such traumas and that you shouldn't hide it or bury it. You should wear it and scream about it, like a badge of honor. You survived, you won, you didn't give in and die. Not the greatest way to phrase that message, but, I think it can be positive, despite the framing of it. Positive in the way, that it encourages victims and survivors of abuse and trauma to speak out about it, even if it is phrased in a rather strange way.

Abdul Shouaib thats kind of a stretch

Make fun if it, but that shit works. Always inquire about your plot armor, on every physician visit.

No such thing as a break from politics. This Video vs. Betsy DeVos RE: people with disabilities.

Talinite lmfao 😹 "nice things like fish and disabilities"

I didn't realize having a disability was nice. Then again, I've been living with a few my whole life so how would I know?

+Erin the Fnadom Writer I'm sure he meant 'nice things [with respect to speaking about them]' with that in the brackets implied, thus not being nice things in and of themselves.

@@erinw.9256 Don't be mean. I'm sure you know what they meant

We feel like the most we can do is just start making media & representing plurality positively *_ourselves._* Shouldn't expect singlets to tell our stories for us. :[

Mr. Robot does a pretty good job of presenting DID in my opinion. IT does sensationalize it a bit but it's explored in quite some depth and portrayed very sympathetically.

Moon Knight did pretty good.

It was terrible. One of the most disappointing sequels I've seen

hwoarangthedoorbell That part made me a little sad.

Pierin Mess I'm hunger for a Honey BBQ Chicken Strip Sandwich.

I really feel like an ice cream right now, it's warm outside.

If people get hungry for Judy Hopps from Zootopia, they'll be hungry for pretty much anybody.

THIRST*

WHAT is this thread lol

You can double, or greater, that number for each person that actually has dissociative identity disorder.

@@stuflames4769 I that supposed to be a joke ?

@@MultiSese13 are you not amused?

@@stuflames4769 no im not

@@stuflames4769 and if i take your joke as an example 36 people found that joke not funny

Thank you. I was stuck trying to organise my thoughts so I could write a comment, but then *here you were~* 👏

They are not just in your head. A disability is, well, a disability. It would be a better fit if she would overcome her disability not by time she needed to, because that's lazy writing.

I agree, I liked the movie but it was, first and foremost, just a fun adventure film. The director/writer seemed more focused on writing an exciting thrill-ride with quirky characters than exploring weighty themes, and that's fine....but in that case it makes more sense to just remove references to those weighty themes altogether. Leaving them in seems messy and, like you said, nothing holds up.

there is no golden age of anything, there never was nor will their ever be one.

Steamboat Willie. What about gilded? As if there’s just the perception of a “golden” age?

@@lucyw4195 from this review it sounds like they may even have had a coherent draft at some point, but then for some reason (possibly interference at the company?) they had to change some things and then it no longer made sense or conveyed the story they wanted to tell anymore. But then again, maybe I'm giving the writers/etc too much credit.

Huh? Would any character development stemming from mental illness not count as abusing in your mind?

@@ninjanippledog725 Probably something that at least attempts to accurately and respectfully show the mental illness.

Rey Bravo Mr. Toad wanted to join the party

He heard you talking about crashing cars in Finding Dory, and thought that sounded like a wild ride.

Lol

I liked Split, but I didn't like what it said about mental illness.

Erin the Fandom Writer I'm curious, what do you think the movie was trying to say about mental illness?

@@geensloth911 Hella late, and I haven't seen the movie, but likely the portrayal of DID as something unstable and dangerous is an element there.

Also, when you're talking about the way Dory remembers things, they actually set that up earlier in the film. In the school scene, the manta ray describes to the little kids in the background that some fish can find their way home not by memory, but by instinct. I think this is what they were going for. There's several allusions to this later, like how she says "I'll know them when I see them," and how she intuits her way to the kelp to find her parents house. It's all about her learning to trust her instinct.

I feel like it makes plenty sense within the movie though. The mother had DID and whenever it was she grew up I sincerely doubt she would have had a supportive family who would have taken care of her, assuming she was born in say the 50's or thereabouts. I don't think the movie was trying to talk about the illness so much as it was talking about how we affect each other. Lot's of people say these movies romanticized Kevin's disorder by giving him superpowers but...it just doesn't, Kevin is a prisoner, his whole life is taken away by the abuse inflicted upon him, he is the result of a vicious cycle. Perhaps it would have been better if we saw more about why his mother was the way she was, so the audience can understand that the ignorance and lack of care for these issues ultimately birthed a monster.

Or the camera ISO too high, or the aperature too fast. You don't know your shit. Please know what're talking about before making comments.

NEEDS MORE GAMMA!

Way to jump down their throat, Dale. The OP was just pointing out what we all see, no need to show you "know the exact reason why the picture is bright". Clearly we know who here doesn't have a Valentine's date :P

Dale Lenze aperture is the size of the lens' opening. high ISO would've made this video extremely grainy with a shitton of noise. Stop pretending. You're only making a fool of yourself.

Ewin, she's a ghost! egad! even scarier than Resident Evil 7!! aaaaaa!

Worddd. How popular Split is keeps me low level enraged on the daily. MultiplicityAndMe did a really good video with a lot of other DID youtubers about why it's not a good film in that regard but it doesn't feel like enough people care about hurting people when they have the option of munching popcorn and praising M. Night (why? like, does his back catalogue count for nothing? ugh) I'm typing this while the video plays, because I'm so annoyed that she's exactly like the majority and doesn't see the problem. Yeah, the whole scars thing is really the worst thing about Split, good call Jen.

Yeah, there can be a character who’s like “Disabilities don’t make you a cannibal supervillain, dipshit. What the fuck do you think DID is?”

@@angelalovell5669 lol angwy 😡💩

Lé Kiwi ShiT WHAT?!?!

Cool

also an important part of the movie are the seashell tracks. while Dory might lose her memory, she doesn't lose her personality, and because of that her parents figured that she will follow the seashells (because she likes them). I struggle with mental health too, and I have many things around the house to help me through the day (notes on the wall, strategically placed items, marked stuff etc.). her family found a way to help her lead a good life! the final scene where she is able to use the seashells to do something she couldn't do before - something as simple as going for a walk to admire the view - was inspiring for me. she was able to do that not because she magically remembered things, but because of the time her family put in to understand her and understand how to help her. they worked out a system that uses what she's good at to make up for what she struggles with. I think that's beautiful. P.S. that scene where you see her parents still laying out the seashells after all the time she's been gone... makes me cry every time

Mr.Bremos96 It was James McAvoy as himself

Jenny Nicholson Why do you say that?

Mr.Bremos96 It looked just like him

Jenny Nicholson​ Well... Okay, fair enough.

Mr.Bremos96 ir

Brian Montero a facehugger from Alien?

That is not a facehugger

Brian Montero a friend

I think Jenny has an interest in arachnids. To be quite honest, she strikes me as the kind of person who would have an interest in something like that. If any girls ever pick on her at school, she could put a live one in their backpack.

her tumblr is "spiderjewel" so you might be onto something

lilacbombs _ Yeah, the movie was great, it just continued to promote the stigma that mental illness makes people violent.

Yes, and they also don't develop super powers.. This is a fictional supervillian origin story using DID as a misdirection.. It is not meant to be a true to life depiction of a mental illness.

Oh no! What poor victims you all are! Fuck off.

The Cinema Cowboy eat shit

Star Butterfly Ouch! I’m so hurt! How will I ever recover.