The Problem with Super Mario Odyssey | Nintendrew 

Screw off this is my favorite game of all time

Now that Bowser's Fury exists, I'm kind of fine with no hub world. Just make Breath of the Mario and I'll be happy Nintendo

I honestly love the acknowledgment that Odyssey is not a bad game at all, but that it's also not as perfect as a lot of us thought it was when it released. This video represents more what could've made an already great game, better.

If only there was a hub world, it could be an airport where you unlock gates to different kingdoms to fly to.

Mario Odyssey is the near perfect game, until you unlock everything and the only moons left are the ones just hidden in annoying areas which take ages to find / need hints to find. Because of that the game almost always ends on a downer if you're going for 100%. The home stretch of completion is just the worst part of the game imo. In terms of the video, and the capture mechanic. I'm not sure I agree. If the game gave you complete freedom to capturing, it would risk being less defined. See, Balan Wonderworld. As it is, each area gives a challenge specifically designed around that capture. Which allows for more variety in the long run than broad level designs intended for every single ability to be used. I do think Galaxy is the better game though.

The ruined kingdom is so interesting aesthetically, I like how it looks different from everything else you’ve seen in a Mario game before, and the Dragon is cool too, but the Kingdom is so underdeveloped!

This is timely. I just streamed this last night and it was first time ever playing lmaoooo!

I brought some of these points up in the past and I got BLASTED with hate online. I felt pretty bad back then, but I’m now very glad to see I’m not alone in thinking some small tweaks would make an Odyssey follow-up surpass everything prior. Thank you so very much for making this video.

The problem is there's still no Odyssey 2

My problem with Mario Odyssey is that the progression is somewhat broken. You *could* do the story and get a Multi Moon, or you could walk around the kingdom for 5 minutes and ground pound the floor a couple of times and get three moons that way. I suggest adding a new type of moon called "Moon Fragments". Instead of getting a full moon for minimal effort challenges you would get these fragments. Once you have enough of them, then it gives you a full moon. This would make all moons feel more important, and more like you earned them. Now doing the bosses would give you one moon, but doing tons of challenges around the world would also give you one moon. It's more balanced this way. Sadly Nintendo will never do this because the moon count would be lower, which is a massive selling point of the game. People would just think there is less content. Also stages changing are something I really miss. Odyssey kinda does this in a few spots but it never changes much. I think it would be cool to have the stages change slightly as you unlock more moons. The more moons you have the more developed for end game the stage can become, adding new challenges along the way. For instance what if the luncheon Kingdom was dried out when you first visit it, no lava bubbles in sight. But once you beat the Big Bird on top of the volcano, the soup pot tips over, spilling lava everywhere, adding the lava bubbles with some new challenges. This is more how I wish odyssey worked, the base game is still amazing and it's one of my favorite games of all time, but I wish it was more like this. Let me know what you guys think, would you want my style of Odyssey game? What would *you* change about Odyssey? Let me know in the reply's and have a great day!

Can we agree that the Switch has a big amount of amazing Mario games? Edit: Please keep in mind that I never said it has ALL amazing Mario games, I’m aware that some games aren’t on the Switch

I didn't think I would agree so much but I really do. I personally didn't think odyssey needed those things and it wasn't bothering me that they weren't there but now that you say it, those ideas would be pretty cool.

I think it's a good thing that SMO doesn't have a hub world, because that means there's nowhere to send you after every moon, and it takes less time to get back into the action. If there was a hub world, nobody would ever visit it, so it would be a waste of resources.

To put into perspective of how short the Cloud and Dark Kingdoms are, they are the equivalent of Boss Rooms compared to the full blown Dungeons that are the rest of the kingdoms in the game.

“What can I say, I’m stuck in the past” sometimes it’s the small jokes that make you wheeze.

In a RU-vid landscape of sensationalised and polarised content, your balanced, well-articulated and friendly opinions are a breath of fresh air. Really enjoyed this and looking forward to more!

But first, we need to talk about 11:59

Here's my BIGEST problem with Odyssey (that nobody talks about): World boarder. . . . or lack there of. Mario 64 and shun sine, they both had mountains or oceans or something that blocked your view from seeing where the edge of map was. With Odyssey, it just felt lazy where you could just walk down the street of new donk city and see. . . oop, yep, world is flat, walk another step and theres the abyss. Does it effect gameplay? No. Does it effect esthetics, map design, emersion and even world design? Absolutely. It just felt lazy. There is no other world for it where you can literally see the end of a baseplate. Every single map in odyssey is a floating island that's not supposed to be a floating island. . . and that just disgusts me. Especially when compared to how île delfino handled it's world boarders in shine. . . . and that's saying something cause that was on the gamecube. Meaning that they got worse, not better, over time with this topic. And that's just disappointing.

The problem is that eventually it ends

To me, Odyssey was a game I could really enjoy as a quick playthrough, but NEVER a game you'd wanna 100% more than once. It has a lot of replay value in a selective sense; you can come back to it, but you never wanna start over or fully finish it. That's how I see it at least. My opinions are awful in general when it comes to games lol. Either way, I cannot help but praise the ambitious design and execution of Odyssey, though if I'm being completely honest, I could never see myself playing a sequel in the same style.

“Course clearing” is a pretty good way to put the style of those games. I was thinking “arcade-derived” due to the emphasis on time limits (and arcade-style scoring), but that might only apply to the first SMB and the single screen arcade titles before that. The later course-clearing Mario games have a more long-playing feel with maps & progress saving, so labeling them arcade-like experiences would be inaccurate.

Yeah I like the galaxy and 64 approach to the main collectibles (stars/moons) as differently than odyssey’s. They feel more substantial.

I never realized how NOT having a hub world/base bothers me 😂 BUT NOW I NEED ONE FOR ODYSSEY 2!!!!

Personally, I really enjoy the small and tight feeling of the Odyssey, it's relaxing

If they make a sequel, I need to see that big lightning dragon return... maybe even as an NPC or an ally!

THANK YOU! I felt the same way about the moons. Personally I prefer a 3D platformer closer to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie. When you have literally HUNDREDS of moons it stops feeling like "Yay I got another moon!" and starts feeling like "Oh. Another moon. Throw it on the pile."

Galaxy 2 will be hard to beat as the best imo Good thing they put my favorite Mario on the swi- O h . . .

I would have loved a hub world in odyssey. Ya know in skylander giants the hub world is a big ship traveling the sky. Love the video.

I feel like people say this is the best one because it’s the most ambitious one instead of being the most fun one

12:23 I’ve seen the Ridley fighter announcement trailer and I can say that’s not a good idea

To be able to capture every living thing would be too much. I already stray too much from completing objectives by messing around things I can capture and checking out suspicious areas with the hope of finding stray moons. I'm not saying odyssey is perfect, but give it a chance to be improved upon with a sequel.

Before watching the video. My main issue with Mario Odyssey is the number of moons in the game, and their general placement. Compared to other 3D Mario's, 64, Sunshine, and the two Galaxy games, the moon counter far exceeds the main campaign of each of these titles. That is simply absurd, which is for exemplified on how trivial they are. Most moons are not placed in an area where they offer a good challenge to overcome, like the many nut moons in the wood kingdom. These side moons, just damper the thrill of collecting for me. I will admit the moon complaint is a common one, but is one I feel is very valid for a game that is good. Other than that, Mario Odyssey is a fun game. I particularly love buying the decorations for the Odyssey itself. It's just neat seeing the ship slowly getting more furniture over the course of the adventure.

Just got you in my reccomended after 2 years. Glad youre doing well man

I'd say the post game can be the weakest part of game simply because there are a ton of moons, so naturally not all will be winners, but other than that I love this game, and I feel like especially over time it will be appreciated more and more.

1:57 I don't really have too much of a problem with that, because for me most of the time I always have a huge blast collecting all the moons in the game. Sure sometimes the moons don't feel rewarding and sometimes I do feel overwhelmed by the amount that there are but like i said I always have fun and it's always satisfying to collect a moon. Speaking of which I'm actually 100% the game again for the 5th time (Yes I'm a maniac) and its still feels great to collect them and almost never get bored of doing it.

Man, it’s been nearly 4 years since this game was released. Time flies...

Idea for the Hub world: For every kingdom you go to, you add a new part to the ship and by the end of the game you have a giant ship.

The problem is... I'm addicted to your videos X-D and I need to sleep sometimes.

The biggest problem I have with Mario Odyssey from the very beginning is that I miss something that every other Mario game has: The option to replay missions. When I finished Mario 64 and want to race Koopa the Quick again, I can do that by choosing the star in the menu. But If I want to replay the mission in the lost kindom where I lose cappy, I can't unless I start a new file.

Love this game, you made some great points for a sequel. I would love to see an expanded Nintendo universe nostalgia trip

i felt exactly the same about odyssey as you did- i couldn’t figure out any real flaws aside from “it just doesn’t feel totally right” mario’s moves, controls, and physics felt perfect. there was plenty of stuff to do. nothing wrong i could really put my finger on but i knew there was something bothering me. this video pretty much summed it all up. i love every addition/change you mentioned and i think would help it feel more mario while also continuing on that new unique path odyssey made

Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that Odyssey wasn't the "perfect" mario game!

I like a lot of your ideas presented here - I agree that more captureable enemies with more use per enemy would be great! I think the game's biggest flaw is definitely the moons (which you covered). There really are just too many, and 75% are just so easy to get. As well, to get all 999 moons, you had to straight up buy some of them.... I think over 500 in a game of that type is just excessive. For me it's a 9/10 game, but the formula established definitely has potential for even better with tweaks.

The only flaw about Super Mario odyssey is that it's such a big game...its a little intimidating to replay

when i first saw the reveal trailer i assumed that the metro kingdom would be the major hub and the rest of the kingdoms would be interconnected though various methods

I definitely agree with what you said about the stuff you said about the lack of a hub world and linearity of the game. I remember saying that I didn't want Odyssey 2 to be the next mainline Mario game despite it being in my top 3 of all time which meant I never understood why. Although now I'm pretty sure it's because the thing that bothered me about the game was the existence of the Odyssey which seemingly replaced the expansive hub worlds of past 3D Mario Games and instead gave us what was an almost completed linear world map of all of its kingdoms

While I think you give fair criticism, I have a few thoughts of my own. Firstly, I think having a smaller hub gives Odyssey two advantages. First, the game puts more emphasis on exploring the various kingdoms and by having a small hub, it pushes players to to go out sooner than if they had a larger hub to traverse through. Secondly, because the hub is so small, travel is more efficient since it takes much less time to move from one kingdom to another as the player doesn't have to travel from one part of the hub to the next. I think a larger hub works favorably in something like Galaxy since it contrasts with the limited explorability of the galaxies. Small levels, big hub. Big levels, small hub. Not to say that levels and hubs of the same size can't work, but I think there's a certain logic to it. Secondly, turning kingdoms into universes is a shift that seems kinda redundant and not just because Galaxy does this already. To me, it's replacing one thing with something else that basically serves the same essential purpose. On a side note, I prefer the kingdom approach in Odyssey since it allows us to learn more about the lands around the Mushroom Kingdom that isn't just snow and desert levels. Lastly, I think there's a significant contrast between collecting Power Moons in Odyssey and Korok seed in BotW. While BotW reuses several puzzles for its Korok seeds, Odyssey's puzzles and challenges are much more diverse. Admittedly, not every Power Moon is a blast to get, but I think there was at least a sufficient balance between quality and quantity.

I actually didn't mind the Cappy mechanics as-is. But the moon spam is the reason this game is firmly in second-to-last place on my 3D Marios list. I can still tell you where every gate is in SMW, how to get every star in Mario 64, and which my favorite galaxies in Galaxy 1/2 are. But I wouldn't be able to tell you about more than probably 5 or 6 moons in Odyssey - there are just SO MANY OF THEM that nothing about it was memorable for me.

There are no perfect games, each has a flaw or more. What the player should focus more on is the fun factor, if there is one.

I was really wanting a new video, love your vids and channel :)

It was a great game but no game isn’t perfect like Jedi fallen order I was expecting more lightsaber combinations and planets but other than that it was fine no game will ever be perfect

An excellent opinion piece. As fun as it can at times, it's sometimes nice to see criticism that doesn't lead into a long rant where the person is yelling. You kept a nice, constructive analysis and never once took cheap shots at the game, and I think that helped to prove your points better. Keep up the amazing work!

so this is why I'm not playing odyssey all that often. I wish odyssey got the dlc treatment like botw

Mario Galaxy didn't go over well at all when it first came out. People were craving a return form of Mario 64. Nice to see people now recognize its contribution to the Mario universe.

Imagine something like lake lapcat, but it's an entire world. And there's some sort of fast-transportation where you can go extremely fast through the map so that transportation between countries isn't tedious. That'd be amazing.

been a long time since my notification popped up for your channel. keep doing vids man!!👍🏻👍🏻

I've been saying your points for years and people gave me the crazy look. As someone who played the old Banjo Kazpoid games, Oddyssey felt very underwhelming

I have always strongly disagreed with the point regarding there are too many moons. The small moons are essential in rewarding players for exploration and experimentation. Less moons leads to emptier environments giving players little reason to wander off the beaten path. Some of my fondest moments from Odyssey were from discovering a tiny nook on the outside of a kingdom with a moon attached to it, or performing a trick jump to find a moon in an unassuming location.

Odyssey was the best Mario game I ever played. Even bearing out Super Mario World.

The best Nintendo youtuber is back

"What can i say im always stuck in the past" low key joke

Great video! Always love seeing Nintendrew content. On one hand, I have always felt that Odyssey suffered from lack of a hub world. No qualms there. But the proliferation of Power Moons doesn't really bother me, and I actually think it's an ingenious mechanism to allow younger and/or lesser skilled players to complete the base game without hassle. Experienced players can burn through a large chunk of the moons no problem (and these "easy moons" somewhat artificially inflates the moon total, since a significant percentage are way easier than any given Korok seed in BotW), but then the real challenge comes in collecting the rest after you've hit 300 or so. It's a nice balance, IMO, but I can see why it bothers people.

The worst crime Odysea pulled on us is the Classic Mario costume not having yellow skin in 2d sections.

Finally!! someone finally nails what I felt what it was missing.

The more gameplay mechanics you add, the more time it takes, often becomes gimmicky, add bugs, and makes level designing an absolute nightmare. Cap'ing critters, who's existence is first weird, could be done with cap'able characters, but I think running same world in the skin of different characters and unlock different path when backtracking could be interesting (DK64?).

I like that you made a video about a more honest view on Odyssey. I have to say Odyssey is by no means a bad game, in in context with other Mario platforming games I wouldn't even put it on my top 5 list... I have put a good 2000 hours into Odyssey to completely 100% the games in all regards. I what bugs me the most is actually that cappy is too powerful in the game, because even though it is not necessary for a lot of the kingdoms to proceed, the game is just too much focused around that strange looking hat/ghost. Also as a result from this the controls are just very overloaded, which would be necessary. E.g. ZL and ZR buttons to the same but you need to use the Z Button for 5 other moves to pull off. *That is just bad design and makes the game unnecessarily janky!*

You hit the nail on the head. I think my biggest problem with Odyssey is that Cappy as a power-up is really under utilized. Instead of you gaining moves like a traditional power-up it actually restricts movement to whatever you've transformed into, which in my opinion, severely ruins the flow of the game. Odyssey is still awesome, but it's the 3D Mario game I've replayed the least because of this. Solid job man.

I like to categorise the main series Mario games into: Linear 2D (Bros. Series, Land 1/2, World 1/2, New Series) Linear 3D (3D Land/World) Linear Adventure 3D (Galaxy 1/2) Open Adventure 3D (64, Sunshine, Odyssey)

“The hyrbid nature of linearity and exploration based gameplay” Hey look, it’s the reason Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game.

I think this Mario game has to many ‘’boring’’ moon to have

On one hand, you make some valid points. On the other hand, I get really annoyed when people come up with gameplay mechanics in their own head and then get disappointed when the actual game doesn't match the version they created in their imaginations. This video gets pretty close to that territory in places.

No exaggeration, that concept for a "Super Mario Universe" game is straight-up downright genius. Please try to get in touch with someone who can help you pitch it to Big N for the next game, it'd be so much fun.

Here's an idea: have a hub world but instead of jumping into paintings have it so it's like the comet observatory and when you choose a world to go to you use the odessy to go their sorta like a airport that you then return to the hub to go to a new world

My problem with Odyssey: the co-op, missed opportunity to have Luigi be player 2, but i hope they include that in either a sequel or a whole new 3D Mario!

Dude you were at retro game con in New York and you signed my copy I still cherish that moment to this day

After playing the trainwreck that was the demo of Balan Wonderworld, I'd much rather 100% Odyssey again than to deal with that shit again.

Expanding on the idea, why not make Mario Universe even further expand on the trends Odyssey set? Instead of one big planter, you have at least three, with different locales, gravity, and inhabitants. Additionally, certain kingdoms should share borders so that they're not all just random floating islands.

i got 3dworld and bowsers is this better or worth buying now?

Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury >>>>>>>>>>> Super Mario Odyssey. It’s not even close. Much better level design and music and pacing in the former

Did anyone else notice that the cartridge he puts in the switch during the intro is darksiders?

The amount of total moons felt very discouraging for me. Which lead to me finishing the game with I think 130 moons or so and never playing it again.

Overall, this video comes off extremely biased, but you do throw in a few good points. I'm a big fan of Bowser's Fury, so seeing that model on a scale of Breath of the Wild's Hyrule would be my ideal Mario.

Don't want to have to be too many different types of collectibles but a lot of the moons felt like smaller collectables than the stars in previous games. Even if you try to equate the triple moons to being like the stars it still feels wrong. Making some of the moons something else more like the blue coins from sunshine would make more sense. So we would have 3 collectables the purple coins the moons and something in-between feeling.

I dunno, it sort of feels like you're not really critiquing the game itself as much as you're saying "this is how I WANT the game to be". It feels like a lot of the points are saying things that aren't problems, and then offering solutions that would radically change how the entire game works. I remember the SnowmanGaming video on Donkey Kong 64 from a few years ago did the same thing. It'd be like me saying "Man, I don't like the Great Bay area in Majora's Mask, imagine if instead it was a giant volcano instead and designed exactly how I want it to be?"

I just recently played both Odyssey and Mario 64 for the first time. Dated camera controls and graphics aside Mario 64 triumphs over Odyssey in every way imaginable, in my opinion. Odyssey is not a bad game, but 64 is a phenomenal platformer with just the right amount of challenge, exploration and lineraity. Odyssey on the other hand feels way too easy, recycles too many bosses and puzzles and just doesn't feel as polished to me.

Mario galaxy was literal perfection, I want 100% agree that the Galaxy level design is a hybrid. from the power-ups, to the structure, to the levels having some collectathon type design. Open world Mario isn't as challenging or platforming focused as linear Mario, Linear Mario isn't as collectathon and exploratory of as open Mario. For that Galaxy is the perfect hybrid

The Moons...you nailed how I felt about them. Yes, it is post game content, but it's so much to collect. The game is massive. I still haven't not replayed the game from the beginning.

Galaxy 1 is my favourite 3d Mario as well , but odyssey would definitely be 2nd or 3rd. One very minor nitpick I have with odyssey is that the font used in the whole game is very generic unlike most other Mario games, which use very "mario-like" fonts I guess. Other than that and the stuff mentioned in this video, Odyssey is an amazing game but just doesn't live up to Galaxy for me.

Add Bob-ombs, Thwomps, Whomps, Boos, and Bullies. Make them all capturable in odyssey 2 and i'll be happy

dude thank you! i didn't find this game enjoyable in the slightest, the korok seed analogy was on point. I didn't feel rewarded in the slightest when i found those stupid moons

Yeah I completely agree, the moons feels more like you’re collecting 1 up which is ironic because people complained about how long it took to collect each star in galaxy and 64

I always thought what was missing was a balloon hide and seek. 🤷‍♂️

I can't think of basically anything bad to say about this game

I wish the worlds were more Mario-esque like the old school Mario cartoons. I agree about the Hub world. The Broodals are meh, would've preferred the Mario 3 Koopa children. Still one of my fav games ever though.

I didn't play this mario solely because of the capture mechanic that was involved, super glad for the release of Bowsers Fury so I can play Mario again

I actually liked that odyssey didn't have a hub area and was all across one planet. It made Mario feel like he was a nomadic traveler on an adventure, which seems very fitting to his character. The airship more or less functions as the hub and it's nice that you can customise it and see your progress. That being said I really like your idea about having a mario game set across parallel universes. Maybe you could have some that are entirely 2d or even retro themed like they touched on in odyssey. Maybe one could be an entire world based around mario kart etc. That being said I don't think that would be objectively better, Mario Odyssey was just trying to be a different game to that with more emphasis about exploring different cultures and environments shared on the same world. Being across different universes would be a bit more disparate and wouldn't work for odyssey, you might for instance not get to see how someone from the sand kingdom felt when on Holliday in new donk city.

(not joking)The only thing that Odyssey is missing is voice clips in cutscenes, like in Sunshine. For some reason, I really like that.

2017: OMG this is the best Mario game ever made!!! Present Day/2021: It’s a well made game... but

I see where you are coming from with the limited use of Cappy. But I think that Mario's base movement is so good and fun that it makes up for the lack of captures.

As someone who was not even aware of Odyssey in the months leading up to or after its release (I was in South America and did not have Internet access for a few years, missionary thing) I did not have any expectations placed on the game and thusly was not disappointed by being able to inhabit the body of every creature and whatnot. That said, it is weird that Nintendo would market it in a certain way and not deliver on that. I love Odyssey and I legitimately prefer it to Galaxy, but I can totally see where you’re coming from there. I think this video is a surprisingly measured review from someone obviously more passionate than I about the franchise, but one thing I absolutely positively agree with you on is the hub world thing. That’s the one thing I felt was majorly lacking in an otherwise stellar game. I do have all the moons in Odyssey and actually found the whole thing very fun (except the jump rope and volleyball- screw that crap,) but I understand that 1,000 moon collect-a-thons aren’t for everyone, but I do agree that more than a few of the moons felt like tacked on filler.