The problems with Seiko 

Even those of us that still love Seiko can't disagree with what you're saying

Finally someone in the watch RU-vid community, who is able to share an opinion in the most efficient, informative way without derailing a subject from it's main course. I like Seiko, even own a GS, but could not agree more with you about this topic, especially for branding and unregulated movements. Subscribed.

“My SARB 017 losing a minute a day” was like a glass of ice water thrown in my face. I feel your pain. I use my watches to get me to meetings on time. My Tudors run reliably within a second a day or less. Maybe I am getting spoiled by good mechanical watches , but I need something that is relatively accurate on my wrist and I want it to be mechanical. 10 seconds a day I guess I could live with but a minute is like using a freaking sundial.

Seiko needs a dedicated mid-range line of watches. Right now they have a Chevrolet and a Cadillac with no Buick in between. If I stick with this analogy, it should be pointed out that Oldsmobile died because it was too expensive to be entry level and not upgraded enough to be considered worth the extra cost - just like so much of Seiko right now.

I completely agree with your comments, Elizabeth. The 6R35 movements seems to have more positional variance, more drift and less accuracy than ETA movements in similarly priced Swiss watches. I sent my baby Alpinist to Seiko service because it was losing over 20 minutes per day after less than one year of wear! I am still waiting for it to come back. My Presage Sharp Edge is much better, but is still somewhat all over the place. I just purchased a teal Laurel Alpinist special edition with the same movement, on an upgraded Seiko bracelet. I love the beautiful, dressy vibe of the watch. Let’s hope it runs well. My Hamilton Khaki Automatic, which cost me $625, runs to within one second per day. Despite owning a cell phone, I feel that it is reasonable to expect mechanical watches to be competent with their primary function. Seiko can do better. However, they sell a ton of watches, so maybe they do not need to. Good essay, Elizabeth. Cheers./Warren

Love your channel (and you by extension). I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially regarding unregulated movements. I got the SPB 155 J1 "Baby Alpinist" for Christmas. That watch cost my wife $725.00 and has a new 6R35 movement. It loses a little over the -15 seconds a day, if I lay it down face up over night. If I wear it while I sleep, it loses more. I will never buy a "nice Seiko" again until they regulate their products. If enough people complain to Seiko about their products running outside of spec, will they just widen the specs? On the other hand, it is a beautiful watch. I will keep this one, but my Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic gains about 3 or 4 seconds a day and cost a lot less. It 's the one I'll probably wear the most.

My GS is older so it has SEIKO at the top and GS at the bottom. I never worry about someone wanting to steal my watch because they would see SEIKO when glancing at it. :)

I got the Ginza right after it came out at about retail but it was incredibly hard and I had to take a risk and buy from overseas.

You are soooo right Elizabeth. Good on you for enumerating Seiko's weaknesses. And like you I own Seikos (4 Alpinists). Hopefully Seiko listens.

I bought my SARB017 18 months ago, my first thought was "this is the crappiest strap I've ever seen." I dearly love the watch, the strap sucked. I'm getting ready to purchase a SPB147. I'm really not sure how many Seiko's I've had through the years. I've probably bought 20 of the little military watches like the SNK807 and 809, I mod the dial and hands, pop in a sapphire crystal, new strap, and give them away as gifts. I love Seiko watches and I agree with everything you said.

Preach it! I own the SPB089 "Blue Alpinist mentioned, but I got lucky! When the first batch was released, I had only heard of the SARB017 Alpinist for a month, and certainly hadn't had time to appreciate its greatness. The blue was more for me, but it was of course sold out in minutes. I grew to really love it the more I saw of it. By the time Hodinkee released a second batch, I made the snap call (while preparing for a meeting 5 minutes out + checking with my spouse before dropping $600) to get one, and I'm glad I did. I will say the strap is nicer than the SARB017's, but it's not amazing. I have had it on multiple aftermarket straps, but it's lived on the Strapcode Super-O bracelet for a while. That is really my favorite way to wear it. I wouldn't pay the aftermarket prices, but I can't say I'm upset at the value. It's definitely worth the $600 I paid. The SPB149 is not super hard to get a hold of with something like 5,500, but is another one I think should have just been a regular model. I usually see them for list (but 2 years used!), or sometimes a little less. Anyway, I also have an SRPE03 King Turtle. The 6 o'clock index doesn't line up exactly with the rehaut. The odd thing is it's all good (including the bezel) at the 12 o'clock. That is really where I care about things lining up, so I don't really notice it often. The upgrade to sapphire (with AR) and a ceramic bezel is nice, but not worth that retail price. I found it on sale at a jeweler for 30% off, which I do feel was worth it. The bracelet isn't anything to write home about, and I quickly moved on to rubber straps. I've had it on a Crafter Blue rubber strap (love that vanilla smell) for months, and love it. Anyway, there are so many frustrating things about Seiko, and so much to love. That is why the frustrating stuff is tough to swallow at times.

Just came across your channel.and was drawn to this video in particular. I will swear by Seiko but every point you made here hit the nail right on the head. Lately my eyes and wallet are glancing elsewhere instead of going first to Seiko for that next piece. Very well done and articulated.

I really try so hard to love Seiko, and I think on paper I do. But when you really use them, they're just never accurate enough to be a daily. That's really a deal breaker for me as a watch person.

I love the low-key Jordan Peterson reference :)

I picked up an SKX and that is the only Seiko I ever plan to purchase. With Orient I feel that they are trying to make the best watch they can at the price. With Seiko, I feel they are cutting every corner they can and still keeping their prices up. I just bought an Islander SKX style watch and also enjoy wearing that much more than my SKX.

I enjoyed this video very much! Unregulated movement is something I hate too and some other brands are guilty too.

In the end one watch enthusiast mentioned the Seiko movements' inaccuracy problem clearly. I used to think that i was the just one who suffering that issue. Thanks for your evident thoughts in this video.

Good breakdown, and well delivered. I agree with much of what you said, but a couple nits to pick: Hardlex crystal - I have never had one scratch, and I believe this is a good material for divers that will be used for - diving. It is not as susceptible to fracture as sapphire. On the scratching note, I have the SLA019 with the Diashield treatment on the case, and it is hands down incredible at scratch resistance of the case. My arm hair scratches my Rolexes, the Seiko is four years in an has maybe one faint scratch on the case. Truly amazing. Straps and bracelets? With the exception of the Rolexes, I replace every strap or bracelet on pretty much every watch. Tissot leather straps at the $600 dollar price point are surprisingly good though. Price - They have drifted up as of late. The watch that got me into collecting, the Gen I orange monster, was acquired for under $200.00. On a steel bracelet. Orient is not really a subsidiary of Seiko so to speak. They are a subsidiary of Seiko Epson, and the history is really hard to follow, but they are more of a sister company, and I believe solidly siloed without sharing parts, design or engineering. Probably why the Orient In House movements are more accurate than the Seiko's for the most part. Comparing the Sellita to an NH35 movement? C'mon, that's not really fair. The Sellita is a really solid accurate movement. QC - Isn't the misaligned bezel part of the charm of the Seiko Divers? I believe it is trademarked. Branding - this is a result of them being all over the map from a pricing and design perspective. They should standardize things across the brand so you have a level of expectation, but with moving Seiko 5 upmarket, I feel like there is just a giant fish mash of parts being run through. Just pick a standard and go with it. Pins and collar, split pin, and folded link adjustment on bracelets? Ugh. I get screw in every strap code bracelet I buy. Seiko doesn't have the buying power to just go with screws?

Great points! I have several Grand Seiko in my collection right now. Somehow that brand has captured me. However, every time I add a Seiko to the collection, I just cannot seem to get over the department store history. The watch soon moves on to find a new home. Even when they're putting spring drive movements into Seiko watches, and pricing them nearer to Grand Seiko, I just cannot shake the sub-$1000 vibe. I realize this won't be a problem for all in the community. I'm fortunate to have a larger than average watch budget, so watches entering my collection are competing with some big name brands. I also agree on the bracelets 100%! Even infecting GS. They've proven they can put a pretty well designed micro adjust into a bracelet (the new titanium spring drive Prospex). Why is it not then standard on all of their higher end offerings? The GS micro adjust (I'm talking on the fly here) is complete rubbish. Sure it works, but it looks like h*ll and it is so thick that you can forget about doing any office work with it lashed to your wrist. If you don't personally own one, and you want to recreate the feeling, strap a box of tic-tacs to the underside of your wrist! As well the time-keeping function! People go on about Seiko being a true watchmaker. Okay, fair enough then. Why though are they sending watches out into the world that don't keep any better time than the absolute cheapest movements out there? Surely a "watchmaker" would care about the time-keeping functions. $200 Seiko, fine. But for something costing $1,000+, I expect less than 10 sec/day deviation!

I have a microbrand watch with a Seiko NH35, after six months it still runs about -2 seconds a day when I wear it. My mate also has an Alpinist, bought it from an AD, not a demo piece as all the plastic and tags were still attatcheand, and it ran +20 seconds a day from day one.

I agree with everything here. I want to love Seiko again. My biggest complaint is inaccurate movements. It's hard to pay current prices and get +45 seconds/day.

I have an Alpinist Mystic Forest SPB289 Seiko Boutique Special Edition, it is beautiful but after a few months it started to be very imprecise. I then took advantage of the warranty because is inacceptable lose 1 minute/day and it is currently being serviced. I hope it comes back perfectly regulated like the first days.

I am a Seiko fan but I do have to agree with you on most of your points. As far as accuracy I like tinkering with watches and making mods so I time my own watches. Should I have to? No but that doesn't bother me. My 2 biggest gripes are their straps/bracelets and no sapphire crystal for the price they charge. I do find Orient to be a better value and the ones I own keep better time than my Seiko's.

No watch company is without..... sinn???

Very good list. 💯 Agree with your list, they have to up their QC for the higher price points. As for the Limited Edition, one watch brand (Omega) that I also love also releases a lot of Limited Edition. But at the same time, I am beginning to love Seiko. I used to be on the fence regarding this brand but they have been producing compelling designs. They make watches with beautiful dials. The price creep can actually be a positive for me. The Orient would be their entry level brand while Seiko would be a mid tier watch while Grand Seiko and Credor would be their up market brand. It would take time, but eventually this realignment would eventually prop up the brand name. Another positive is the durability of the movements of Seiko. I've had Orises (in Selitta movements that are also unregulated and with the setting lever breaking). Seiko movements are also relatively cheaper to service and easy to regulate (the positional variance is not that high). I think it is pointless for Seiko to continue selling at the bottom price range as this is already being eaten by the Micro-brands and Chinese watch manufacturers. It's time for Seiko to position themselves in their proper position. I think the cheaper watches remaining are their old unsold stocks.

First Thursday boots and now seiko. It’s like you’re making videos just for me.

For me the fact that it’s “just a Seiko” is a major win; a great watch that I can actually wear.

In a different context "No watch is without Sinn" would be a mildly amusing marketing line if its applicable.

Seiko is it’s own worst enemy

Great vid! 👍

I agree with all of those and the most obvious one is the sapphire. Any Seiko that you can buy "on the street, not MSRP) for $200 or more should have sapphire and none under $200 should have it.

I gave up on Seiko a while back because of these problems. No regrets.

Just for info; the reason of the Hardlex crystal in the diver's should be related to pressure resistance. Sapphire is much more schatter prone than mineral/Hardlex crystals.

That's why the Seiko mod community got so large bec people got fed up with Seiko's shenanigans.

Own multiple Seikos and I love them, but I also completely agree with you. I have a supposedly lower end Seiko 5 (Chun Li SRPF17K1) that runs as accurate as my Omega Planet Ocean (8500 movement 42mm) and two mid grade Presages (SARX077 and SARW019) that are -12/-25. For the money of those two Seikos, I could get a Tissot, Hamilton, Nomos, … that offer better accuracy for a reasonable price. You’re also right that only watch geeks notice a Seiko, their marketing has been atrocious. The Omega immediately gets spotted, it is what it is. Having said that, I think the Street Fighter and Naruto series Seiko 5s are really fun. And again, ironically, it is my most accurate Seiko!

Seiko has a identity crisis with too many sub brands. IMO, they should get rid of King Seiko, Prospex, Astron and Brightz and keep the Presage and possibly Credor as their entry luxury pieces starting from $1,000 and up. The mid-tier lineup can be a mix of automatic and quartz and the Seiko 5 can be the entry line up.

First time viewer great video, you just earned a new subscriber., I own 2 Omegas and 5 Citizens. There would have been a few less Citizens and a Seiko or two but for all the reasons you have highlighted. ( definitely a King Samurai but that pressed clasp?) My last purchase was a Citizen BJ7111-51M, Titanium, Saphire, GMT, Milled clasp 200m wr and its accurate all for £250. Show me a Seiko that offers that at the moment?

First time in this channel. I’m a Seiko fan but Elizabeth….you’re right!!!

She's all about the glitz ... I'm all about the accuracy and function. I won't own an automatic because the very best accuracy you can get with a mechanical watch, the very best ... is one second per day. Quartz movements smash mechanicals in the number one category for any watch. And here, she's going on about the appearance ...

Everything you said is true but that was months ago. Now that Seiko has become aware of these valid comments, which reflect the thoughts of millions of us, they have thoughtfully made major changes to... sorry, just kidding... they don't care. As a big fan of Seiko I'm glad you roasted them on these 6 issues. Well done. I'll add another: Their silicone straps are generally a disaster, all made to fit over a wetsuit rather than a slender wrist, with keepers that don't keep. P.S. Love the 143

if we want them to be successful, we gotta keep them accountable. i love seiko and this is a great video.

I got my limits edition Rock face Alpanist coming today.... Oh the irony 😅 Thank you for this.... you are spot on here....

I have the same issue with my Sarb017. It's four years old and it's losing almost 2 minutes a day.

Came across this video by chance. Subscribed.

Love your videos and the honesty, make more videos with the different brands (like Casio,Orient,Timex) and specific models that you recommend. Would love to hear your honest opinion on the brand and some models before expanding my collection, I love to research before a buy and it's nice to have some honesty.

I can relate to these opinions very well. I am on a love - hate relationship with seiko right now. They have great dial designs. They are affordable. Spring drive is a horological accomplishment. On the other hand, there's all the problems you mentioned in the video. Sigh.

Great video, very well done and I agree with your talking points. I always bring up when talking Seiko that I got my SNK-809 for 47 dollars, will never see that again! BTW, I have that same leather strap, it's a good one!

I must say ... all valid points. Terrible marketing, bad quality control, unregulated movements, price creep. And still ... I love Seiko.

The only seiko I have left is my Sarb035. It's a great summer watch. I flipped all my other seikos . I will never never buy another watch with a hardleks Cristal .

Terrific review and too the point. Very happy to see an enthusiastic lady watch collector with the self confidence to cross the line and wearing men’s watches. Bravo. 🥰

Great video and you are 100% on all of your points.

good points well made. back editing this comment - please don't take offence, just giving feedback... a moment ago I complained here about the background music (muzak is a better word) as I found it distracting at first and eventually rather annoying - it seems you use it on a few of your videos. It is a particular problem if I use headphones for some reason - you don't notice it nearly as much if playing through the computer speakers. I honestly think it detracts from your videos - do you really need it? I don't think you do.

I could listen to her all day. So commanding of the topic.

Just got a SPB289 Mystic forest Seiko I can confirm everything you said is true. The bracelet is horrible. The finish on the watch doesn't match it's price point. Sometimes I would rather stick to micro brands for better quality watches.

I totally agree with all the things you pointed out. Great video

I agree what you said because I miss the limited edition of Ginza 259.

Just a small linguistic comment - hodinkee is not pronounced like there is „oo” in there, since it has nothing to do with the hood. Think of a single „o” in the word „coctail” - it’s the same thing here. It’s not a nuance, as to anyone with Slavic roots pronounciation like with „oo” sugests a very slim person, rather then the correct meaning of a wristwatch (or an hour if spelled „hodina”).

I used to love Seiko, but after 4 divers (SKX007-009, SRP777-Padi) with crappy movements, I got tired and gifted all. Went for an 2018 Omega SMP 300 and man, this movement is rock solid and amazingly accurate (+2s/d). I know there is a huge cost difference, but totally worth it, now this is my only watch.

Good and relevant points raised. What sux is ppl will still buy seiko despite all the downsides.

Well constructed and fairly detailed criticism. I enjoy the humour and sardonic vibe. My oldest working watch is a Seiko I bought in 2003, an Arctura Kinetic Auto-relay SMG043, still works great. Haven't bought another one since. Instead, I got a couple of Kentex Marineman divers MOP dials about six years ago (with a regulated NH35 from factory, one is now at - 15 s/d, the other one at +2 s/d), saphhire, ceramic, great crown action, feels vastly more premium than the SKX007, but they're almost a grand these days. I mainly use them as beaters and beach watches. I do like GS but not enough to spend thousands on one, I don't find them exciting enough at arm's length despite the level of intricacy on the dial, hands and markers up close.

You make good points, but TBH what you say applies to many brands. - Lots of watch brands go overboard with LE's. (Weirdly, my first "keeper" when I got into watches 10 years ago was one of the Seiko 5 50th anniversary LEs, the SRP431.) - Other brands come with cheaply made leather bands, too. Hamilton and Tissot are particularly hit-or-miss in my experience. - Everyone is jacking up prices lately - though I agree that Orient is the "new" Seiko in this regard. - The Swatch Group PowerMatic 80 isn't particularly accurate either... 100% Agree with Seiko QC and branding. Another example - "Prospex" is on watches from < $500 to > $3000. At least Seiko finally improved dial/chapter/bezel alignment.

Wow, you really nailed that big time. My first video I have seen from you and I will subscribe. I have a limited edition Blue Monster with the Shark teeth indices. It came with the hands misaligned?! How does that happen on a limited edition watch? Then after 2 years it went from keeping Chronometer precision time to gaining a minute a day. I sent it off to a watchmaker and had it regulated and along with getting the hands realigned. Now I do have a proper Ricket ship at 12 whereas before the hour hand was off by about 10 minutes. On your point about branding, it is a good and a bad thing. If I wear my Snowflake most people think it is just a Seiko and it makes me feel like I can wear it without the stigma that someone might want to mug me for it as opposed to wearing a more recognizable brand like my Omega Globemaster. I think Citizen is going to take over Seiko's entry level watch market soon. Most people aren't that aware of Orient, although they should be.

I started off with Seiko and have three of them. I agree with every point made here through personal experience. I have one (Ginza Alipinst) which is running like a dream, the worst it ever does is -2.5 seconds daily over an averaged long test, and one which I don't trust at all (-29, -34, -1, -10) and this is the one that came back from repair under warranty i.e. a replaced movement where you'd think they'd make an effort to regulate it. No such problems with the Epson's supposedly sub brand Orient.

From another of your videos... I agree with your sentiment about lack of regulation of Seiko watches. I have a beautiful Seiko 5 Sport (SKX style), but its 4R36 movement looses exactly 12 seconds/day. Recently a friend bought a Seiko 5 Sport "Sonar style dial" and I had to get one too as the translucent dial is really cool. Both his and mine is factory regulated to better than -1second/day! Obviously the 4R36 movement is very accurate, just not always regulated well.

I go to Seiko for the Tunas though. Historical importance and ruggedness draws me to them.

Hi Elizabeth Yeah man I agree 100% you never know what you are going to get you can buy a £900 Lt only to find a unsigned crown, buy one for 250 with a nice signed one. Misalignment just................The stunning £400 Cocktail Time that you could mistake with a GS. All of those things have been very annoying 🙄 But I still pay for them. I must say its nice to have these sort of problems I mean it's not like Oris is going to clean the ocean with an Aquis but every little bit helps. Anyway the Oris Tan one you have is pretty cool, but I don't know if I would ever wear. Cool to have nice Birds around here though lol .I'm Stupot and I'm watch addict.

Regarding the branding, I completely agree. Seiko should have created a completely different brand name for Grand Seiko like they do with Credor. Shallow or not, it’s hard for most people to justify spending $10K on a watch that has the same name on the dial as one that costs $100.

Im sick of not getting the good models/colorways here in the US. Their Samurai "Grey Dawn" is beautiful but not available in the US and you guessed it "Limited Edition" to i think 2000 pieces. Id have to import it and pay north of 1k for a samurai that still doesn't have a sapphire crystal. Seiko is really pissing me off lately.

this might be silly but if your watch is loosing a min a day, how do you keep it during the night? My orient kamasu had the same problem and what i do now i keep the watch on its side with the crown facing up. This solved the problem basically and now i don't complain anymore.

We got spoiled by the below MSRP seikos for years. It was purposeful to raise prices on everything to prop up the perceived value of GS. They will sell less but make more per watch for both lineups. Unless we stop buying Seiko, their strategy is working. Just think how we already assume swiss made watches are worth the premium price.

I got one of them seiko srpg37 nearly a year now only time will tell if it proves to be reliable seems to run a bit better for a 4r36 I live mine looks great makes a bit of rotor noise when shaken and instead of the classic tick tick tick a watch makes it makes a ping more then anything not unpleasant love it seems that i lucked out on that one for me the nato strap feels alright

Spot on! Everything you said I've commented on before. Great video, I couldn't agree more.

I love Seiko too. They are true horologists and true watch makers. They've embraced mechanical and quartz movement and at the same time they've also combined the best of both into Spring Drive!! What other watch company can you say the same as Seiko!!! They are the real watch makers in my humble opinion!! Long live Seiko!!!!!

I really do like the brand Seiko but yeah their QC (especially on their entry 5 models) is horrible. i just purchased my first Seiko just to return it due to misalinged chapter ring and scratches on the bezel out of box. it almost seems like they don't even care.

These days on a modest budget, Tissot is hard to beat.

Yeah I’m warming to your take on watch/brand reviews. You got the chops bud. Keep it up. Cheers 👍

The limited editions are cash grabs. Just as designers and sneaker manufacturers release limited collabs. This is seikos way to sell out immediately with no stock sitting. From a business perspective its smart from a fan and consumers prospective it makes you want to bang your head against the wall.🤦🏻‍♂️ Great content..

You are good at this. Keep making content

Fair and efficient. I leanred a lot not just about seiko but also how to present an opinion in general! Subscribed🤙🏽

good chat, right on!

Ya. I missed out on the JOJO seikos.. so sad..... :(

I agree with just about everything you said. That means I think you're smart! :)

The Marine Master Professional 300M “Iriomote Island” limited edition has been out forever. It’s still available new below retail.

We both love the alpinist, Sony e-mount and Canon M-mount lenses! ;) Keep up the good work Liz! :)

I miss the good old seiko premier/kinetic watches. Great accuracy, design, power reserve between 1-6 months and sapphire crystal…great value for money. If I knew, I would have bought more !

I love seiko as a brand and ive owned multiple seikos in the past but I could not agree more with your video. Im so glad people are voicing these issues. The downfall is, I want to love them as a brand but they are a mess… its a toxic relationship. Awesome video

Interesting video. I must be lucky. I own 6 seiko in total (3 GS) and I've never has QC issues. Perhaps it helps that all my watches are Japan made... I do agree that microbrands and Orient represent better value at the lower price range. And I'm still amazed at the quality Citizen seems able to offer in the sub $1k range, but in its price range I've still seen nothing to compare to a GS. Looking forward to watching more videos 👍

I picked up the Seiko Astron 2022 model and it's absolutely stunning.

I'm sure Seiko still use Hardlex on their divers is because it actually is better for diving cause of less chance of shatter. Seiko divers are real divers. Ok hardly anyone uses them for diving, They are ISO 6425 rated.

I missed out too on the ginza😭💔

Spot on.

Stop buying from grey markets. This is not helping in quality control and price. Why be responsible for your quality when going through unauthorized dealers.

BTW, the Alpinist is my absolute favorite Seiko. The green dial version has the biggest "heritage" factor. Your strap choice for it is brilliant.

100% agree with all your points, great video! Cheers!

Oh about the Ginza, I talked to several AD's across Florida and even one in New York. One tried to order it for me and was denied. The New York one agreed to sell it to me and then sold it under me to someone else. One AD straight up told me it was impossible and one more just laughed at me and offered me other watches. Terrible buying experience.

All points valid and spot on. one more I would like to add is their designs that no matter what they do with their finishing their designs just don’t look as nice(expensive) as other watches in their competing price points in my opinion.

Great content.

i probably got myself the last piece of LE Seiko Ginza Alpinist via Retail in Singapore at around Sing Dollars $1300 . now it is worth over 2000 dollars ... probably USD.... or at least S or Aussie Dollars

Perfect video!!!! ⌚

ok, third video I'm watching in a row now... I freaking really like your review style, and your focus on the stuff that matters.. those details that are missed on so many.... If you're ever interested in reviewing something a bit more high end, I've got a few watches I'd love to send you for review if you're open to paying insured shipping overnight both ways...