@@jayvang7490 I didnt say that the Punisher is any better, but its still a shitty symbol. Firefighters are cool, they dont need to wear patches of shitty superheroes.
The Seals themselves have turned into a bit of a mess. Thanks to American Sniper and the Bin Laden op, it seems like they've followed in the footsteps of the SAS, and everyone's just there for a book deal.
@@Del_S Well said and entirely true. Moreover, the suicide rates of special team MIL personnel is staggeringly high not to mention their outright violent behavior once in the civilian world. Department of Defense and Department of Veteran Affairs are due for a legal reckoning.
The Punisher: "This skull represents the failure of the justice system, the failure of the organizations that uphold them, and the vow I made to seek out my own." Police officers: "Yeah, I'mma wear that"
I'm a closet Punisher fan, really love the comics, and I thought the most recent Marvel series was an original take. You did a great job covering the history as well as keeping it pretty even leveled. Seriously great work
One of the most important problems with the Punisher that rarely ever gets addressed: What the hell happened to that minigun he had at the end of Daredevil Season Two?! He never used it in his own show! Did he realise it'd cost like $400,000 to fire it for twelve seconds?
@@nightfury8440 Clancy Brown had it at first and that explains everything since he's also The Kurgan, Lex Luthor, Drill Instructor Zim, and... uh, Mr Krabs.
Mandolorians have been in military usage since about 2005 I want to say, considering their kind of “Spartan” life style. Knew quite a few marines that had patches or got tattoos.
@@bravo6959 probably cause he mentioned a lot of political shit, and remained perfectly neutral. The person is upset that he never lambasted antifa or blm
"I'll say this only once, we're not the same. You took an oath to uphold the law. you help people. I gave that all up a long time ago. You don't do what I do, nobody does. You boys need a role model? His name is Captain America and he'd be happy to have you" - The Punisher to police officers who idolised him
i really love that last line of referencing captain america because he's what should represent american law enforcement and military a patriot that does anything in their power to uphold peace of the united states and all their allies not a vigilante on a mission to get revenge
People always forget to add the best line of that comic. Cop: Who the hell do you think you are? Like it or not, you started something. You showed how It's done. Now you don't like others following your example? Too bad tough guy. Punisher: If I find out you are trying to do what I do, I'll come for you next. Cop: Careful what you say here Castle. Starting to sound an awful lot like a threat. Punisher: It was.
@@1CE. I take no offence from the symbol at all. I fully understand what it represents and why people use it. But if you get offended by by a relevant quote about using the punisher skull symbol from a comic book character then that's on you.
Police officers forming a secret club called "The Punishers" and wearing matching black clothes to commit "vigilante justice" is kind of the cringiest thing you could do
@@ethan5354 The whole thing is a massive cringe fest. Everything about the symbol, all the way back to the original comic, is a power fantasy. The symbol is almost always used by people who have some power, regardless of social status or political beliefs, and have a "might makes right" attitude about getting more.
@@peteranderson037 especially when the punisher isn’t supposed to be someone who’s idolized but pittied because of how fucked up he and his life is and how he will never find solace. BUT NAH THO DUDE BRO YEAAAH PUNISHER LIFE WOOT
@@arkanstigers6007 Define what's considered "complaining" to you. Critiquing the use of these symbols by police, B2B, and other similar groups is not "complaining", with said critique being a big thing in the actual Left. Anyways, no one is saying you can't like Punisher so let's not misrepresent the argument. I expected more from someone who's "Left wing".
We just all gotta chill with the symbols yes if it’s used in a context where it’s extreme it’s bad ofc Punisher skull Viking symbol but don’t assume someone who has a hat or T-shirt with punisher on they are pro police or military one of the writers who wrote one comic idk who said he does not like what he’s being used for the man is anti police and anti military if you actually read the comics or watch the movie you will see it’s like a last thing you see before death to bad people the bad people in this scenario are the right wingers who use it to target Muslims you can tell this because the American or blue lives matter flag is printed on it so I think we should just chill don’t assume things unless it’s got a huge dog whistle to it
You're not alone. It was once edgy to have the punisher logo. Now its even more edgy to hate it because its edgy to like it... Gotta love stupid people and how they have to be trendy. I'll like what I like, regardless of what people think...
Same with me and Canada, it was certainly a shock seeing the Canadian variant. I mean seriously, they just added a line right through the middle, absolutely no regard to proper flag design!
@@casematecardinal Or a mass murderer who takes it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. Which is why it's fucked up fpr cops to use it when one of the largest complaints agianst them is literally their over use of lethal force
The best Punisher comic panel: Surrounded by burnt out cars, spent shell casings and body bags, a NYPD officer answers an off panel question; "AM I SURE IT WAS THE PUNISHER?!? IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY?!?"
Actualy surprised about how little hate coments therw have been on a chanel about military uniforms. I whoudve expected many more people taking issue with his prespective that the skull was used by white supremesists.
I don’t think it’s sufficiently nuanced, due to the lack of detail on the groups using the logo. In the attempt to skate between controversy, he lost necessary context.
@@hangingchad1616 ...exactly ...me....you + everybody in this comment section can pretty much piece together that the skull face paint and or design was most likely used by an african or native Indian tribe that was wiped out ...and the conquerors said thanks guys ...and we'll never really know 😂
You didn't mention that the Jolly Roger ensign was the symbol for "We'll take prisoners & ransom" vs. red ensign "You've pissed us off now & you're all going to die, you should have surrendered when you had the chance." in pirate use...
I am familiar red flags designated 'more aggressive pirates', but I wasn't sure that was anything more than an intimidation tactic. The red pirate flags I was familiar with were the specific flags of specific captain's, so they didn't have a 'standard' flag. So I thought it was just a design choice to look scary, not a sure-fure declaration, to be flown when necessary, especially since flags were precious and expensive and multiple flags to fly would be quite an expense.
Ah so pirate history mostly comes from one guy that was either a pirate or a member of the British bureaucracy that would issue pardons to pirates. It’s generally reliable but not perfect. So the Devil stabbing the heart that we associate with Blackbeard probably wasn’t exclusive to him as there are accounts of pirates being hanged under the flag of their ship which is very similar, of course brand recognition is a thing and they probably copied the angriest bastard they could think of in the hopes that merchants would go “Oh fuck Blackbeard better just give up” Moreover there wasn’t ever really an agreement about Black vs Red and was more dependent on what the crew could make up, some people weren’t good at making skulls perhaps. Jean Duleain (check spelling) for example flew a black flag and would let his prize fire three times before declaring that they would have to die when they got caught unless they were Spanish, then it was death for certain. So we can assume that a lot of pirates flew a plain black flag because it was a straightforward established symbol of “death is here” from plague ships moored in harbors. Also literacy wasn’t great back then so a description of “A black flag adorned with a skeleton a sword and a heart” could be depicted many different ways and associated with multiple pirates. This is further muddled by the pirates using many different names and some accidentally having the same name like “Black Sam” who was likely Sam Bellamy and Samual Brown. TL;DR Pirate flags are a mess and probably not as cool as we all think but it won’t stop me from enjoying them.
Don't know about your country but in mine firefighters are can be used as police/medic (mostly in drunken non-armed encounter of course)if none police officers are on the scene. Now the punisher skull is reaally become a sign of rally of every trash-people of every communities. Edit: i've just realised that my profile pic (from mgs) contain a skull, atleast it's not the punisher's skull and i don't do politics soo.
@@chibani- i dont know about them acting as police so much, they are kind of an authority and would probably like break up fights and stuff but i dont think they can detain anyone outside of what a normal citizen could do. Being medics however, they absolutely do, they're firemen and I'm pretty sure they all have to go through first aid training and all that, plus they also always travel with an ambulance. If the firefighters are called then an ambulance or probably multiple depending on the call will always go with them.
Exactly People are just digging for some deeper meaning that isn’t there It’s just looks cool, that’s literally it but sensitive types see it mainly used by the right wing and so must seeth
so glad my punisher t shirt has the words "the punisher" as well just so I'm not caught up with the skulls meaning and just appriciate the show and bernthals acting
@@darkmario3321 just rock what you want. Its not an overt hate symbol like a Black Swastika on a white and red vack ground, its not a unique emblem like the Sickle and Hammer, its a logo from a comic book that looks cool. Automatically allowing the negative aspects of things to trump thr good ones gives power to your enemies. Imagine if Neo Natsocs started using the rainbow. You wouldn't just give it to them would you?
As a lifelong Punisher fan thank you for this great look at the symbol. Even as a vet and fan I am saddened by the use of the logo by folks that miss the whole point of Frank and how his life isn't to be idolized but pitied as he has lost everything and just has unending violence now.
@@unknownhandyman6821 it shows they're idiots. The Punisher killed cops too because they were criminals, yet Cops who wear it won't so much as report the criminal element among them.
Very simple reason: he's too badass, that impresses people to the point that they want to emulate the impossible efficiency of the Punisher, while ignoring his tragic, tortured life and horrible moral boundaries.
*Frank Castle:* is a demented murderer that has given up on justice and is on a suicidal quest of endless revenge *Bob, 55, Alabama, eyeballed an interracial couple in the mall for 20 mins:* OMG HE IS LITERALLY ME
@@MaggiesNight enlighten me then dude. i never said i didn't like the punisher, he is really badass but also a complex character. It takes a little thought too see past Frank's motivations and principles and start seeing his methods and actions. He is like that by design, and i like it that way, but if you can't see past the "badass guy kills bad guy" aesthetic, you don't understand Punisher
When I was little and saw the punisher skull on people's uniforms and stuff, I just thought they were a fan of Marvel. Needless to say I was always wondering how such a huge fan base was never as vocal as the fans for other Marvel characters, especially considering the effort to spray paint his emblem and make patches and stuff. You never see a cop with Spiderman's spider emblem.
Because most other super heroes are pretentious on the grounds that "Killing your enemy makes you just like them," Whereas Punisher just thinks "Killing your enemy means less enemy to worry about later," Especially when considering that while Batman and Superman and Spiderman and Wonder Woman and all the others are constantly having to fight the same enemies, over and over... Punisher typically only has to fight his particular enemy once. Because they don't get back up when he accomplishes his mission.
The fact that police relate to the Punisher and can’t read the subtext of the character is a huge problem as is. Frank’s mindset is he should be “judge, jury, and executioner” and that criminals, regardless of what they do, shouldn’t be shown any mercy. The police are not and never should be any of those things, and we have courts for a reason.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure most police officers uses the symbol because they think it's cool without knowing or caring about the meaning behind the skull
They know that plently of cops have also seen some of the worst humanity had to offer. Bet you some of them wish they could just kill the criminals (actual criminals) they come across but if the criminal surrenders they have to follow their police training and detain
@@jerry12314 What views and opinions. He put as much history and facts into 35 minute RU-vid video. He didn't say which side was right he just pointed out what the major opinions are. Just because the video didn't vindicate your beliefs doesn't mean he did a bad job.
@@jatelf7 Like he said, it's milquetoast as fuck. There's nothing ballsy about that. OP was saying that it was ballsy, when being completely neutral and not siding with anyone isn't remotely ballsy.
@@dominicbegay9355 its preety much the oldest insignia for military/police/warbands... or really anything involving combat there is. Also using any insignia ironicly is unprofessional
idk man, i feel like a group made to "protect and serve" shouldn't be represented by a skull or a "warrior symbol." i just feel like cops should be oriented towards helping people instead of, you know, killing
I really appreciate the use of the 2004 Punisher OST in the background. I remember when the Punisher skull was cool. Many, many years ago. But now, it'd be hard to find someone who doesn't think it's cringe. Including myself.
It’s really only suitable in a military context. Everywhere else is kind of stupid. The idea of justified killing is a pillar of war, and honestly, the punisher skull in the ME has gained a more military role than a relation to the comic book, with it being a common tag, as was shown in the video.
@@BeefyRider I don't think that follows. If I like x and think it's cool (1) and other people who are cringe also think it's cool.(2) other people liking x changes x.(a) Then the x I like is now cringe.(3) I'm gonna have to disagree on your hidden premise (a).
@@JP-rf8rr don't bring math into this. Or whatever that is. When the Punisher skull was a symbol for righting wrongs and fighting back against a corrupt system, it was cool. But when the symbol came to mean something else and the original message was subverted by every douchebag who thought he was Frank Castle as he cleaned up the Walmart parking lot of all the wolves and sheep, it lost its meaning. It became cringe. Punisher skull sucks now. End of story.
I hate that seeing a Punisher skull no longer alerts me that somebody else is a fan of the comics, and instead that they're probably somebody I would just find insufferable to talk to. I love The Punisher comics. One of my favorite storylines is when he infiltrates a white supremacist group run by Hatemonger (who, yes, is an actual Marvel comics villain and mostly went up against Captain America), and very interestingly in retrospect, The Punisher dons a version of his uniform with the Punisher skull that looks like Captain America's in his final showdown against Hatemonger. There were even flashbacks included of The Punisher's previous encounters with Cap, and it clearly shows that as much as The Punisher revered Cap, Cap friggin' hated The Punisher and everything he stood for, and was not afraid to say so. This storyline took place after Cap was killed in the events following the Marvel Civil War, and another superhero did chew out Punisher for the Cap-inspired uniform. It's just very interesting to me that the issue of a symbol being appropriated by bad actors was explored in the mid-2000's, around the time when the Punisher skull was first being used in Iraq, and now we have white supremacists, a group that Frank fought against in the comics and hated, also adopting his skull. Frank Castle, when he's written well, can be such a complex and interesting character in the Marvel universe. He can also be a lot of fun, since a lot of writers like to use him for very dark humor and it's great. It just sucks to see people who probably don't even read comics just adopt the skull and turn it into a symbol of their weird beliefs. At least this would never happen to my mans Howard the Duck.
@John Doe I'm not a fan of seeing people like white supremacists use things and then just rolling over and giving it to them but at the same time, I also don't want to have to explain myself whenever I go out in public with merch for a comic book character I like. I'd feel safer wearing Punisher merch at a comic book convention than I would just out on the town. It's funny, because I also have a parody MAGA hat that says "Make Everything Terrible Again" that I also don't wear outside of conventions because I feel like people are more inclined to read things and accept irony. I did have one person say they were on edge when they saw it... until they read it. Weirdly, I was in a pre-registration line for an anime convention a few years back and was a few spaces ahead of a dude wearing a real MAGA hat with different colors. And he had a thick west African accent. I do like the idea of repurposing or taking back symbols used by groups like this, but unfortunately, there are also people who just like to pick fights and don't want to hear your explanation of "I'm just a fan of the comics." I am very small and easily overpowered, so I tend to be very conflict avoidant IRL. I won't tell any Punisher fan that they can't wear Punisher merch. I just wish I could wear it without fear of somebody singling me out as a right-wing, white supremacist, and it sucks. My Howard the Duck shirt, though? That gets me compliments. I love my Howard the Duck shirt. It unites us all.
@@KillerOrca If the factt that 70 million people voted for a man that openly supported Neo-Nazis and fascist insurrectionists have anything to say about it, a hypernationalist militaristic jackass with a penchant for general bigotry is disturbingly accurate to what would happen in real life were the story of Cap to be real.
The Punisher skull has become pretty cringe ngl. Esspecially after police and even fire fighters began using it. In a year or two we should expect to see thin yellow line punisher apparel for "badass" Forklift drivers to intimidate boxes and show brotherhood among other Forklift operators.
If Police want a superhero logo to put on patches and stickers, they should take the Superman logo. Superman is a character that represents protection, peacekeeping, and order, while the Punisher is effectively the opposite of that. Hell, even Batman would be a better logo since the character doesn't kill and works with the police.
The Totenkopf was used more by Panzer and Cavalry units by the Germans than the SS. The Death's Head is still used today by some British, American, and Korean units.
@@OhukaisMies_54 Well it all depended on the manufacturer, typically skull, jaw, and crossbones would all be included but some units did try to make their own skulls/designs, some like the old Prussian Hussars with no jawbone or some like the Brunswick whatever-their-name-was where the skull was directly forward.
@@GenMaj_Knight Nah regarding WWII Patrick is right, the SS designed their Scull intentionally with Chinbones to differentiate from the chinless Sculls used by other Formations.
Marvel is a business. The suits don't actually care about the issue and how to solve it, they want to do whatever they think will make them the most money.
same. I had a jacket with the skull logo on it. (sorta a varsity like jacket) and a friend didn't even know what it was simply thought I was going through a phase.
It's ironic that police use the punisher skull since the punisher in comics hates the police because they did nothing to help find his families killers
He is an ex Cop him self and certainly doesnt hate the police, he just thinks their hands are tied, thats why he gladly accepts intel from police officers who agree with him
Who else remembers when you could have a punisher skull patch and have people think that you’re a fan of the comics rather than some edge lord or something?
same man. I mean I grew up with the Punisher/Blade films (later Ghost Rider) and have recently (say around 2014 or so and onwards) became a fan of the characters. Apparently, I can't just like a character it has to be all this other stuff that never even crosses my mind.
I know its off-topic bu why do so many pwoplw on the GR comunity want punisher logos? Like we alredy have a skull logo that isnt copyrighted, why whould ubisoft buy the rights for another logo?
@@swemn8062 well, I think it's for roleplaying the "greater" hero, just like the special Siege operators skins in Wildlands. But when someone thinks about GR he sees mostly a lonely and hyper efficent warrior capable to down multiple threats for a greater good; just like the Punisher. The media, also, make the skull a pop symbol and so many are thinking "it's cool. Why not?" not paying attention to it's nowadays meaning
Disney owns Marvel. Don't expect them to ever risk offending anyone. Keep in mind that after being approved PC here in the US, their movies also have to be approved by Chinese Communist Party censors.
@@timewave02012 Bowing down to their CCP masters. Huh. After that and going all PC, wouldn't be surprised if Disney came out saying that "all Disney princesses are empowered females and their lovers are actually trans men." If I wanted my childhood ruined (in sort of a good way), I'd go to Rule 34.
The problem is not the militias its the hypersensitivity with the people in Hollywood that is whats causing the censorship. As far as I know the Punisher symbol being used by paramilitaries go back to the 80s with the Dolph Lungren Punisher movie.
@@jerry12314 The problem isn't even a militia. You can start a militia if you want. The Roof Koreans were considered a militia. It's that these soylent goblins don't even have the power to start one
As an Army guy I found that the police using the symbol very odd. In the 82nd Airborne we used the symbol because we went out and actually killed people. Seeing a cop where it paints the wrong message.
I got my punisher skull tattoo 19 years ago, while in 1/325th......now zoomers consider it the mark of a beta male cring lord, or a neonazi.......weird world
@MrCadet08 keep in mind the nazis used Nordic symbols that were around long before their ideology, the punisher logo went from comic fans to the crazy racists that use it as the logos for thier orgs.
Everyone: The Punisher shirt is too controversial, no one can wear it anymore! Me: Alright then I'll just wear a shirt with Barracuda on it and real Punisher fans can recognize it while everyone else ignores it.
I actually found this pretty informative. Well researched and sourced! As for whether the Punisher skull could be retired... If it doesn’t DIRECTLY hurt Disney’s wallet, they won’t budge. They can say that they’re “looking into the matter” and “taking [the appropriation of the skull by hate groups] very seriously” and they can refer to whatever comic issues they please, but unless they feel the heat on their purse, they’ll do nothing. They’re so fucking huge that they can actually let this slide and come out the other end relatively rosy. They’ll only retire the Punisher if he stops selling product.
@@plet6461 Back around 2006-2007 Hamaz ran a Saturday morning cartoon show on the Al-Aqsa tv channel called Tomorrow's Pioneers the hosts of the show were a lady and a character named Farfour that looked a lot like a certain american mouse. The Israeli government accussed the show of being antisemitic and anti american. The show runners claimed, that it was merely having kids express the realities of Palestinian life and what they witnes on a dayli basis. There was a lot of controversy around the translations that circulated in America. Disney lawyers got involved and the show was cancelled. Jon Stewart commented that Farfour "Looks like Mickey Mouse but talks like Walt Disney."
@@renaissancechambara we didn’t see Blade get co-opted because, as far as I’m aware, the only version of Blade people recognize is the Wesley(sp?) Snipes version, and that movie embraced the ridiculous nature of its premise while only vaguely hinting at any sort of Black empowerment (if such a thing was there to begin with; I didn’t see it, but then again I wasn’t looking for it on my first viewing). Punisher got co-opted because conservative (read: militantly fascist) Americans love a “vigilante,” especially when said “vigilante” fulfills a white man’s power fantasy. (And when I say “vigilante,” what I mean is “white guy who flimsily justifies mass murdering minorities with a gossamer thin veil of justice, when in reality he’s just perpetuating the oppression of the system”) Note that characters like Batman and Superman do not fall underneath the umbrella of “vigilantes,” because they have been specifically written to not be those things and do not espouse values congruent with current conservative views, despite said conservatives’ best efforts to claim Batman as their own.
@@renaissancechambara no. Why would you want them to change the character? I never understood the race and gender swapping, it seems like cheap pandering. 'What will sell copies to minorities? Let's spray tan one of our heroes and pretend like they won't know the difference!' Why not create unique characters of differing ethnicities, instead of retconning old characters? I get that old ones are identifiable, recognizable and accepted already. My counter point is Why make the unrecognizable, change their identity and basically sell that pill to people who already loved the character as they were for years? It just feels cheap and lazy, and honestly a bit insulting not just to the fans, but the prospective fans. Sorry for the rant, it just bugs me, and it seems to be happening more and more all the time.
There's an irony in the people who tend to display the punisher skull Also the Royal Lancers (of the charge of the light brigade) use the deaths head to this day
They know how good that badge looks, they have kept it through three amalgamations. The only change is that now it has some extra lances in the background.
The blue lives matter one always makes me giggle. Punisher literally killed corrupt cops and any cop who got in his way of defeating crime lmao. I never seen a good cop kill a corrupt cop so I don’t wanna see them rock the skull EVER.
It would be cool if the next Punisher series or movie addressed the issue of different organizations adopting the symbol, either knowing its meaning or misinterpreting it.
Way back, in the mysterious times full of arcane miracles, called by the mortals, the 90s in Germany... A friend of mine had a t-shirt with the punisher skull in it. He was spotted wearing it by a teacher at our high school... And he was immediately taken to the principals office. There, he was presented with this accusation: They thought this skull would habe been a symbol of the ss, so he had to get rid of the shirt. It would not only go against school rules, but were a crime to wear this. If he would not comply, they would inform the police and file a report. He laughed his a of and in the end, they had to apologize to him. I always think back to that, when seeing the punisher skull...
Love how unbiased and informative this video was. I loved the 2004 Punisher film growing up. It inspired most my physical fitness and gave me a hero to look up to. It saddens me that over time the symbol has since then been appropriated into many factions and they have nothing to do with the original anti hero that was created. My only hope is that some how Marvel will still be able to create more content and keep the comic character alive as intended. I would love to see Bernthal get his own properly produced film.
I like the whole "Oh, a group of people are taking on my role as (X)? Better go deal with them because they're not allowed to do that. There can be only one (X)." Professional jealousy at its finest. This is the equivalent of a firefighter getting angry with a house owner for using his own fire extinguisher to put out a fire or a cop getting angry with a home owner for using his own firearm to stop a house invasion by 1 or more burglars, or a paramedic getting angry with an individual trained in basic first aid assisting an injured or ailed individual...
@oscar robledo Ngl, as a Viking age reenactor, seeing ‘dude-bro taticool wannabe tough guys’ pisses me off to no end, if only because it is a wildly inaccurate view of actual vikings
The whole use of the symbol especially by militias and police gives me, “I can stop a school shooter with karate” vibes. It’s like the weird kid’s power fantasy.
I wonder if Frank could have a Nomad-style identity crisis arc where he operates somewhere else under a different alias and uniform while he reflects on his life as a warfighter and how it was meant to differentiate himself from crimefighters rather than inspire them
@gaelan white And inspiring their readers. Some Batman writers have been trying to that with his found family, but it comes off more soap opera than character drama. I love this idea, though
@@ThreeProphets guess the problem with Batman is that such Story would raise complicated questions as to why he doesnt use at least parts of his insane Wealth to tackle the problem of crimminality in Gotham
@@ottersirotten4290 I would point you to the Telltale games, where he does exactly that. Some writers forget the "philanthropist" part of "billionaire playboy philanthropist," and I think that's a huge mistake for the character of Bruce Wayne in general, not just in these types of stories
@@ThreeProphets But he could do so much more, why not financially/equipmentwise support Police/Neighborhoodwatches etc, why not building a Team/Army of Batmans instead of doing everything alone? why not using Lawfare against organized crime? I dont wanna sh*** on Batman too much here, but in order to enjoy him i have to consciously ignore such questions
@@ottersirotten4290 Batman Inc was a team of heroes, and Batwoman’s dad was actively studying Batman’s methods, fighting style, etc to train mercs in the comics as well a few years back. As for the commercial nature of Batman, Inc., Morrison said that he was inspired by real-life tools used to market the image of the title character. "I was looking back at the old Tim Burton Batman movie in 1989, and the way they played that symbol, it was such a major merchandising tool. So I wanted to do something that represented that, or echoed that. So Batman, Inc. is the notion of Batman taking the symbol and saying, 'let's form an international army or team, or police force, which is endorsed by Batman and wears Batman's symbol.”
I work in law enforcement, and I am also a fan of the punisher comic books and the Netflix series of the character, but I would never wear the punisher’s skull on my uniform. The representation in my opinion does not represent what being a peace officer is about: that every individual deserves justice with due process
Great job on covering it objectively! The way I see it, my first reaction to that Tom Jane skull was "oh, that's cool and badass". Great symbol for an anti-hero. And I understand that soldiers would want to wear that, there's a long tradition among many services of many nations. But it still implies death and killing (just the skull) and failure of governmental justice (Punisher in particular). Therefore police uniforms are the *last* place where they should be. Thin blue line may be questionable, but the Punisher's skull is not.
Agreed. I don't think there is any place for skulls on police uniforms. And I'm an easy going guy, but as an agent if the government who is supposed to keep the peace, there is excuse for wearing skulls, especially ones that symbolize a failed justice system and vigilantism.
I love it when police wear them because it narrows down the type of person they are, which is someone dangerous and power tripping. The Punisher killed cops because they were criminals.
overall the meanings and interpretations of different symbols change over time, however for some reason it seems as though the left wing's interpretations are what stick, such as the confederate flag's meaning, wheras many southerners see it as a symbol for southern pride, many members of the left wing see it as a racist symbol of oppression, or for instance how to us Americans, the U.S. flag represents freedom and liberty, but someone in Vietnam or the middle east might view it as a symbol of oppression. To asians, the swastika represents peace, and is a common religious symbol, while western cultures view it as a symbol of nazism and the holocaust. overall, a symbol belongs where the person or group who applies the symbol thinks it belongs, regardless of what someone from an outside perspective might think
Good job of unbiasedly reporting on a controversial topic. The people in the "news" media could learn something from you. Love all your content, keep up the good work!
Personally I was someone who barely knew anything about the Punisher Symbol besides it’s use by SEAL Team 3 and being seen everywhere in contemporary politics. So it was nice to have a factual and unbiased overview of the symbols. That’s why you rock 👍🏿 great video!
As mentioned, Frank Castle disdains the police using his symbol and points to a better role model in Steve Rogers. But that may be the issue with a lot of people, whether they're in law enforcement or not, that they're not looking to follow a role model like Captain America who fights the big bad guys and villains like Nazis and Hydra. Characters without such superhuman powers or abilities like the Punisher, who did fight the occasional big villain, are more often fighting crime on the street level, involved in issues that are beneath the Avengers threat level. And that might be what makes him somewhat more relatable for the ordinary people who are more concerned with these "lower-level" issues compared to other comic book characters like Superman, Batman, Captain America, Spider-man, etc. It might also help that the Punisher's tools are more readily accessible than a vibranium shield or web-slingers.
That is a very cogent point. Might I add, that since Frank Castle is a flawed character, he also seems more human? I love the cap, but he is a paragon of virtue, and it is good to try to be like him, one would seemingly always fall short. So the punisher may seem a more attainable character to emulate.
I think that people follow the punisher's ideology because the character is more human compared to other superheroes, he suffer like a real person and do things that most of the people can do, he's not like the typical superhero whit pure heart. Ps. this ere the only 2 comment written whit common sense (sorry for my bad english)
@@sinisterthoughts2896 Cap is someone to look up and aspire to, and ideal that is difficult to attain and much harder to maintain. Castle is more relatable for some since it appeals to that base instinct that is so easy to fall into, of swift vigilante justice at the end of a gun, especially if you've become exasperated by the slow pace of civil justice
There is also part of us as humans that knows we will always fall short of the morality of Captain America. Simply because we can all imagine it possible to being as sad and hurt as Castle.
Personally, I feel it's incredibly similar to how the Nazi's swastika logo was appropriated from Hinduism. This symbol once meant something, now it means something much more sinister.
The Punisher is my favorite marvel character next to ghost rider I have the blue line skull since my dad was a police officer and passed away last year on October 9th I even got the tattoo with his badge number I miss him to this day...
The logo is a universal symbol for being a badass. If Marvel retires it, it won't just go away. There aren't enough lawyers in the world for Disney to stop people from wearing it in some form.
@angrysausage-qj9eg Disney can't sue you for wearing a tee shirt. Do you think if the Navy Seals or some random SWAT team suddenly started wearing a Cap Shield they'd retire that, too? What if some random white nationalist group did? If some group got a wild hair up their ass to decide their dog whisrle was the Cap shield, would they cancel that, too? And no one actually has to adopt it. All it takes is a stupid 4Chan joke to turn the OK sign into fake racist symbolism. Nobody is "worshipping" the Punisher. It's a cathartic character that kills bad guys and has a cool symbol.
Hi! I’m Gerry Conway’s daughter Rachel, I can’t thank you enough for covering this topic and clarifying the true intentions and meaning of my dad’s character! He absolutely hates how it is used by far-right, gun-toting entities. I appreciate you so much!!
1) Depending on the comic run you read, your perception of the character will vary. Each writer adds their own interpretation 2) Like all art, once its out to the public, the creator loses the ability to control the meaning 3) If you're assuming someone is a certain way just because the wear or display the logo, thats a YOU problem. 4) Anyone can use for any reason they want and if it triggers you, the issue is YOU and need for control. 5) It's the people complaining the use of it, that give it a negative value and thus more worth. 6) Its just a comic book character, so if you like it for any reason, use it anyway you want. 7) great video
There's a small gun shop I've been to that still uses the Punisher skull. It has a tree growing through a hole above its left eye. It seems that other, more "jolly Roger" type skulls are becoming popular. Possibly because pirate video games are so popular. Oh, and Deadpool. The little round Deadpool logo is used a lot, mostly to denote troublemakers or pranksters, depending on the variant.
Maybe Im just bias, but I think the punisher logo fits right in with the BLM movement. They were both forced to become someone or something that combats the justice system that due to it’s countless failures
Lmfao how is calling for police to be murdered in cold blood the same. "Pigs in a blanket fry likec bacon" "what do we want dead cops when do we want it now" you're a clown.
@@Tyler_Lalonde- cops are part of the establishment, the justice system, and Punisher wants to destroy said broken system. I’ve said this before, but it aligns perfectly with Punisher. The Punisher kills people, and as you’ve acknowledged a few people self-proclaimed BLM have too. I’m sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative
Can’t believe cops and republicans turned it into a cop or vigilante symbol, he disagrees with and dislikes cops and now they made it a cringey school shooter logo
I gotta say using the skull logo for BLM is actually pretty in line with the original meaning they feel that the system has failed them and that there will be no justice for them just as frank did I'm really glad the creator did that to remind people what it's supposed to stand for I pray for a day no one will wear the skull for it's no longer needed
Maybe if Frank Castle was a grifter spending his efforts courting corporations for donations. Burning every small business in sight and assaulting/killing randos in the streets.
lol the entire system supports BLM. When every corporation, media outlet, all of academia, and most government agencies agree with you, you aren't a revolutionary.
@@nicto13 when billion dollar Corporations are freely giving money to BLM - how much are they really fighting the system? BLM is filled with grifters, violent psychopaths and kid touchers.
I've always been a fan of The Punisher as a character. When I first started seeing the decals, etc, pop up I was like, "Oh cool, a fellow comic book character lover," until I realized why they were being displayed. I always thought it strange that it was co-opted by law enforcement as The Punisher has no qualms about killing corrupt and harmful cops until I realized that it had nothing to do with The Punisher as a character. That said, I actually really like the idea of BLM/POC/Queer Punisher logo merch. A lot of police corruption and misuse of power involves those demographics. It's actually a lot more fitting for queer people and people of color to use that logo in defiance of a corrupt and discriminatory institution than it is for cops to use it. That's something I can get behind as a Punisher fan. The Punisher logo is an embarrassment to Law Enforcement and fans alike. I think it's up to the fans to take it back, knowing exactly what that logo represents.
I liked how the skull was given a origin in the 2004 film starring Thomas Jane and that it was on a t-shirt Castle's son bought him as a gift and that he was told the skull was a symbol that wards off evil and Castle loves the t-shirt and after his family are slain, it becomes his symbol as The Punisher.
Good stuff, the military not allowing skulls remind me of the apocalypse now quote. "They train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write 'fuck' on their airplanes because it is obscene." The military job is to kill people. I met kyle and got a patch from him pretty cool stuff.
Skulls have been insignia for multiple military and militia groups from time immemorial. It's the perfect icon for a group of men who've dedicated themselves to death(both taking life and accepting yours is forfeit).
It was in a comic book. A seal team with some historical studs in it used it before it was cool and then it got hijacked by some fudds in the 2A world. There. Done. Video summed up. It’s predominantly used by people who exert extreme cringe.
@@saulgoodman9179 The Punisher represents a certain lawlessness and brutality. He has no problems torturing and killing anybody he deems "necessary". That is not something military personnel should emulate. War has rules, you break them you're a war criminal.
Aside from military use, the punisher skull is just plain cringe. Like bro you literally can't even run a mile but you think you're tough shit because you dropped 10k on your ar15 and gear.
The funniest thing is that the punisher isn't a representation of a outlaw who fights crime for the better good of humanity. Castle fights crime because he's a psychopath who needs to kill. In Punisher MAX it's explained that after the Vietnam War only thing he cared about was killing, and the death of his family gave him an outlet to do that, he doesn't care about other people. He knows that the war with crime that he went on won't end in him winning, he doesn't care because it gives him a reason to kill more and more people. I know this isn't the only adaptaion of his character but it's kinda funny to see people celebrate a vicious psycho as a hero.
@@KWillo I felt it gave it a little extra authenticity. Not the tropish Chicago or New York, showing crime existed everywhere, and Florida definitely has a history with smuggling being coastal.
