The Rank #27 osu! Player Says This.. 

I think the pp system is just fine but I agree with reedkatt that longer consistency-based maps should be buffed. My only problem with speed is that you’ll only be able to learn it when you’re already pretty decent at aim and trying to grind speed could be pretty demotivating; since with aim, you’ve been practicing it basically from the start.

As a DT player who has a way easier time playing tapping maps than aim maps, my personal experience with the rework has been pretty positive! A lot of the bursty/streamy DT maps in the mid to high 5 digit range feel really good as of now, but aim does feel a little undervalued, which has led to some of my favorite aim plays being worth significantly less than some random comfy burst maps. The rework currently in development looks promising (at least for my side of things) as it fixes both aim being undervalued and simple triple spam maps getting nerfed to a more reasonable spot!

one of the biggest problems with how the pp system currently works (and why long maps feel both overweighted and underweighted) is how the "length bonus" works. (note: this is a pretty big simplification) in the current system, the difficulty of the 18 seconds of the map that is the most difficult is calculated, and then is multiplied by a "length bonus" that is based on the object count. however, that length bonus ONLY cares about the number of objects, NOT the difficulty of those objects. this means that any change in difficulty outside the most difficult 18 seconds of the map has an essentially negligible change to the amount of pp a map gives. in a very extreme example, aetrna's dt fc on the practice diff of sidetracked day, [the hardest stream] would currently give about 1.2k pp if ranked. but if you add 1000 notes of 0* star difficulty to the end of the map, that amount increases to 1.6k pp. that is ridiculous. in what system does it make sense that adding 0* difficulty to a map increases the amount of pp a map gives by FOUR HUNDRED pp??? this is obviously an extreme example, but it shows that the length bonus is completely broken and absolutely needs to be reworked. currently there are reworks that are being developed to attempt to fix this problem to make it so length bonus is based on the difficulty of the objects outside the most difficult section of the map, not object count. i would be very interested in seeing you interview the people who are currently developing the next pp reworks, as i feel like many people have no clue what is actually going on to make these pp reworks happen. there is a discord link to the pp development server in the bio of the @pp_committee twitter account where you should be able to get in contact with some people who are currently working on improving the pp system.

as a speed player who can't aim: YEAHHHHHHHH

I honestly don't think speed should get nerfed hard or anything cause some of the speed 1ks really do deserve to be 1k but some aim/consistency maps are stupidly underweighted. Game would be better with combo scaling removal so idk do something peppy, coming from low 3 digit player

As allrounder at rank 50k, I feel stuff like aim control and precision is still pretty underweighted. Also, very intense finger control (ktgster maps for example) are really underweighted. But at the end I do not really care how a pp rework turns out since I dont play for pp

as a 6 digit i can say that DT is worth so much. i can legit get first try 200 pp plays on DT maps. when it took like a week of grinding a map before to get one

I think overall the rework was a positive for me, it happened when i was like 70k ish and without it i probably never would have improved streams/bursts/speed. and now some of my top plays are bursty maps or even speed maps

Yoooo upload!!

the editing is craazy good, wb bro

im thinking maybe speed on its own could be nerfed, but maps with massive finger control could be counter buffed or something? it doesnt seem right that plasma gun and kimi no kioku can be the same pp

ayo new Kachulu upload !!

he's back let's go

YOOOO KACH BACK FROM HIS VACATION 😃😃😃

my problem with aim pp is that it is the quickest way to rank up as a beginner, and so it is overweighted at 6/5-digit. but i do think it is underweighted at top level. really good video though!! :DD

I do consistency jumps for the most part, but sometimes i find myself wishing i were better at speed since i can be lazy with my aim and just click fast. Maybe thats a thought that i should’ve payed more attention to regarding the speed meta

Welcome back bro!

I just farm burst DT maps thanks to the rework and I kinda hope it stays like that cause I’ve gotten a liking for speed type maps, I completely stopped with jump maps , was already terrible at them and now like the ones that were 7* are now down to 6.4-6.7* which is nothing unless I get 99 plus acc and even then it’s nowhere near what I’m getting for these streamy/burst maps

I MISSED YOU KACH!!! BACK WITH ANOTHER BANGER I LOST

Wb kach and nice video

yo this video was a banger fr

i think the meta is fine up until aim because i still think that was nerfed a bit too hard actually i agree with a lot of things said in this video also welcome back kachulu thanks for uploading i made mac and cheese yesterday

wow you are so cool do you stream by chance?

welcome back kach 🙌

yo welcome back! nice hair cut btw

BRO HES BACK

I became a speed player during the rework, but not because of the rework and I do feel like this is the most balanced meta I've seen, aim feels accurately balanced but still a bit too low but speed also doesn't feel overweighted (for me at least) but that's from the perspective of someone who's 25k and still improving consistently

HE'S BACK LETS GO

We call this meta a "speed meta" when it only really is a speed meta for the top top players. For the majority of the community we are in consistency meta, long consistency maps are pretty overweighted if you look in the like 5.7* range but kind of underrated if you look in the high CS, 6* range. You can see this in pishi's reign of fear where the 3,4 and 5 diff are all about the same PP. DT is massively overweighted in the 100-200pp range so the high 6 digit low 5 digit range, and that is especially bad because I don't think its good for new players to get caught in the trap of "DT is the only way I can get pp". To give an example, back when I was at that rank range my first 200 was Yours Is an Empty Hope, which is a 5 minute consistency map, then a couple of days later I get Crystal Fair (remix) HDDT like 3rd try and got 250, at the time it was hard for me to justify playing higher star NM maps to improve. This upcoming rework is going to be very minor, especially in the top of the game, farm and DT are buffed very slightly but I really don't hate where consistency is ATM, I think star rating could use some work but its still way better than it was.

i think the speed rework is cool (even though i dont play std, im a mania player)

current rework is broken for speed, you can often see 4 digits/high 3 digits that literally only have DT and nothing else in their tops, usually 250-270bpm maps with a lot of bursts/short streams

He’s not ded LETSGO

"speed" isn't what needs to get nerfed, none of the broken maps are actually true stamina speed they're simple rhythm finger control burst maps, those are what got super buffed by the xexxar rework. Xexxar overly buffed things like triple spam (why slowmotion is broken) instead of actual difficult finger control patterns (those got buffed too but deservedly, and if the finger control is more involving sliders it is just not getting buffed accurately). Raw speed has never been overweighted and still isn't, and the next rework fucking nukes it even more which is so dumb. The next rework is nerfing raw speed while not touching the broken burst farm, my trio cup gains from this rework but like all of my more raw speed scores get nerfed even if they're high acc, and if they're like 96 or lower I can forget about getting pp. Low acc is already not worth jack shit so I don't get what the new accuracy changes are doing. Yes it effectively nerfs hidamari but then also nerfs everything else undeservedly. The whole basing accuracy off "worst case scenario" is so dumb especially bc like what if u actually are getting ur 100s on the slow section and then acc the diff spikes? Basically, a system like this should not be implemented until osu can actually tell where you got your 100s and misses right after submitting a score. And if they want to implement doubletap detection that can easily be done with a UR based system where like if there's two separate lines on the opposite sides of the UR you can tell it's doubletapping. High acc consistency farm is what's really overweighted, you can literally get 600s from low 6* maps with hr and high acc, while it requires consistency that is like the only skill you need. Even nomod you can get 500s from shit like axe of judgement where half of the map is nothing and then there's a couple easy stream sections. I agree with the aim buff, aim was definitely overnerfed by xexxar but there needs to be an entire rework around aim control in general because that shit is so unbalanced, but the aim buff is the only thing I agree with. Like I don't care about losing pp if anything I'd love to but what makes me mad is the maps that are already farm get buffed and the maps that shouldn't get nerfed get nerfed??

I want a really low AR or easy mod buff that makes players like EZChamp actually in the top players

I was fine with previous PP reworks, but idk why, I felt like the newest PP rework changed hit detection. Idk I feel like I miss more sometimes even though I’m pressing the key.

Kachulu speed arc

As a high 5 digit speed/stamina player, I hate jump maps and won’t play them even if they’re worth a lot. I like the rework

I didnt even know they changed it

Let's hope the rework dosent become bad the next time it happens

only reason why i don't like this new rework is cause it's nerfing all my cool plays and buffing all my tv size plays LOL

Goated, been 3years since i was last here hows ur day

Bruh its 30degrees celsius constantly where i live

In short nerf maps under 2 mins, make consistency give consistent pp( the irony in this) and buff aims SLIGHTY! I do think aim was hit too hard, even writing that brings me flashbacks of the 1-2 apocalypse ring tone size times. To be fair current pp is a much better implementation than it's predecessor; and in the majority of the rank brackets you can still choose a skillset, develop it and progress through the rankings. However, Hearing Peppy bring out the absolute nightmare that is implementing into current osu without breaking everything else. I personally rather them just implementing this newish pp rework and work on the bigger ones in lazer.

I wonder what will happen if alt and finger control maps. especially things that have rhythm complexity get more pp.

a low 6 digit here, i tried playing mods for weeks on end just to try em and i could say HDDT scores on 5* just feels cheap as it doesn't really "feel" in my opinion a 5* (i mean they're just 4* maps i know) as for the effects of the rework? didn't know it happened until this video told me 😂 to be honest i would rather have some slight buff on longer maps with more dense patterns and tech/precision maps having more weight. its really weird how i see this seriously small CS with bonkers OD give small pp gains while tech had more things going on in the map and is considered hard for most of the community (if im not wrong) but had less weight but then again it doesn't matter when you feel fulfilled FCing something you've been meaning to wanting to FC so yeah edit: i swear i didnt echo reedkatt

I got more than 100k uprank from 800 to 700k back then when it was reworked lmao

He remembered his RU-vid password

As a person that just got a nerfed map pp with speed. I'm truly sad. But nervousness should probably account into pp.

popularity of skillset is also important tho. On example, even if speed would be "ideally" balanced, but very popular cause of players like Merami and others and all top plays and top players would be speed, everyone will anyway think that this is unbalanecd just because it's too much speed players, when "overweightness" of some skillset is not the single reason of it's popularity if players like Rafis (just example) weren't be so popular in the past, now we'd see much less aim nerfes just because less DT aim players would be now

0:28 the real saake osu! wtf

I mean I used to be a total jump 1 trick and now I’m still a jump 1 trick that can stream like 190 bpm and plays things like first storm

Aim speed should probably be nerfed while precision like ~cs>5.5 get buffed. However there should be some kind of multiplier based on length maybe something like

this video proving factual rn

I can agree with reedkatt tbh

I think Vaxei's Tsukinami HDDT Fc should be 1k pp and everything else should be balanced around that

i miss him…

as a 600k rank player, let me just say *ALL I PLAY IS JUMP*

KACHULU COMEBACK

So i was born in the jump meta, i felt that the jumps are not that cool so i tried to practice streams so i kinda never practice jumps (sotarks maps) but maybe because i was bad at them, everyone that i introduced to osu game, they got ahead of me because they got better at jumps and me who was trying to get better at streams and farm them and failing, yea i expected that kinda, anyways but now when the speed meta came out i was still unable to do streams so i tried to farm anything till i find something, and that's right, i found bursts maps, i can't do streams, i can't do jumps so i abused bursts. Felt great, but i kinda got bored of them. (idk what tf i writed here but YEP I LOVE BOOBS AHDAHDAWHDAWDAD)

There was a rework?! -330k player

Hurts as a nomod player

I liked the rework because it forced me to go from improving my aim alone to working on streaming + speed and now I feel like after months and months of training speed I have a top play i’m proud of and other cool speed plays on bpm’s that are wayyy outside the average range of most players at my rank

ok but what about combo scaling?

aim pp is like puff in smash 4 D:

Whether speed is overweighted or not is debatable (personally I think it is) but my only real complaint about the rework is how stale and boring the meta has gotten. Sure the fiery 1-2 meta sucked aswell but the speed meta is even worse imo. As long as you can make your fingers go brrrr you can gain a shitload of pp, even from maps which are fairly easy in every regard except BPM

Can't wait: rank 37 player told me this..

ehh in europe it was 40 degres celcius for a fiew days

Do you like Swedish OSU players or something?

I can only play hidden D: I hate you too redcet

I'm 190k, I can't tap very fast so I just kinda, focused on precision. I want a precision buff. Thank you peppy.

It’s good that I don’t play regular osu and play mania instead lol

I think the pp system in its current state rewards consistency in a good way. Building speed is probably the hardest skill to build so imo it changes from "let's RNG retry spam this map" to "Oh I actually have to get good at something to do this"

ayy hes back with the milk unlike my dad

i thought its was stupid when it first was reworked cause i was a dirty farmer now i dont care

i know i’m a 6 digit and all but why not just balance speed and jumps and make it equal

Personally, as a 300k I believe that pp system.. nvm I don't care in the slightest tbh

Nerf irelia

Fun fact: the #1 Syrian player is a 4 digit

👀

Like 4 months late, better late then never I guess. Now get back to streaming

Everything should just be buffed. Who cares about pp inflation at this point.

That kimi no bouken 1100pp thing is so weird to me. Like no matter what u say the argument will ways be. The aim is stupid hard and bascially only mrekk can consistenly do it annd thats a stretch or nyanpotato god mode can aim it and maybe lifeline also i havent actually seen if he has a score on it or not. AND THEN u get the speed. its 300bpm its fast. even though the stream/bursts arent super long u have to be so stupidly fast that to fc it u have to be not only a top 3 aimer but also a top 5 speed player combined. its soooo ridiculous. For me its a 1.2k and idk see any other argument around it

In my opinion, the system should change COMPLETELY. In osu lazer, they should make a ranking system based in elos, and create a multiplayer lobby and a bot that choose maps randomly from multiples skills sets. This system should give higher ranking for players that can play everything and not being one trick. The old system can continue, but only in old osu, not in lazer.

wym no fortnite I wanna see Kachuwu like in Season 2

Bruh

again

Im a 230.000 kinda, and i farm 6 star map, ive fcd some but still havent got the baddge, ive got high star maps for my level but i get like 95% acc always, i get like 170pp for each 6 star, but my friend thats my same rank but he farms 5.11 star maps, and he gets the same pp than me, because there soo easy he gets really good acc and with that he gets the same amount of pp than me, i dont farm 5.11 star maps because i dont wanna be a rat, but its soo easy pp, idk they should kynda change that