I go to goodwill for $3 clubs, and free 9-hole courses. I do this because my employer hosts golf tournaments, and my poor ass has been called the Mexican tiger woods. I will keep whooping that corporate ass every year so help me.
“People who want sex but can’t get it are sad. Sadness causes social problems. Sadness is bad” I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry that vaush had to dumb it down for the chat that much
Especially when he was getting chat to signal if they hadn't left the house in x time frame, then immediately sipping his coffee. Big morning class energy
It's the same story with marriage and dating. Try getting laid when you're still living with your parents because your job doesn't pay you enough to live by yourself or with other people your age.
Oh that's a good point. I hadn't thought about that but you're right. One's income (or disposable income) could certainly effect the frequency of sexual encounters. Although broke ass college kids have always shacked up.
It's nice to see some recognition of the way cities are built factoring into this: car centric cities and a lack of a public "3rd place" (outside of home and work) that has existed for centuries. In car-dependent suburbia you can't even bar-hop or run into a friend on the street. It's definitely something I noticed living somewhere walkable. Also "some old 40 year old guy". 😐😑😔
Ay bruh. I just finished one of your videos It was the missing middle houses in N. America. Your videos on civil engineering made me realize why I hate suburbia.
@@totallynotme6720 that's great! The target audience of the channel is people who already know they hate suburbia, but can't figure out why, and don't have the vocabulary to express it. I'm happy to help!
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30-31 Faith
I haven't had sex. I'm a 33 y/o male but I'm not sure the reason I have not had sex is statistically relevant. I've not really been trying for one. Secondly (AND THIS COULD BE TRIGGERING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED ABUSE SO DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT), I am a victim of repeated child sexual abuse by both sexes. So my trust in people was pretty much completely shattered. Can't really develop a relationship when that happens. At least, I couldn't. I'm trying to get better but it is seriously fucking hard. It was only just recently that I decided that I wouldn't just wait for death to come to me and to try to actually live a life. Update: I just want to say that I never expected such a show of support and I really thank you all for the kind words you have given me.
A therapist helped me overcome trust issues after abuse, though I'm not sure it ever really goes away. Something to consider if you haven't already. Best wishes.
@Kim Your catchall bad thing is useless and unproductive. Try looking at the issues on their own terms and you might make some progress instead of just assuming it's all due to your religion's version of satan.
@Kim You are not helping. When someone wants to talk about issues affecting men and your reflexive response is "But that's just part of the LARGER ISSUE (patriarchy) which ACTUALLY favours men and oppresses women, so maybe we should really talk about..." you are doing the opposite of contributing to the discussion. You are strangling it in its crib.
@@Gossenphilosoph666 Fucking thank you. They care so much that the first thing they do is derail the discussion the first chance they get to focus it back on them.
@Gossenphilosoph666 thats because the majority of mens issues ARE caused by patriarchal standards. Men not geting as much mental support from family and friends, patriarchal Men having to make the first move in dating practically no matter what opening to a lot of rejection, patriarchal Men not encouraged to focus on their health and care about their physical wellbeing , patriarchal
I'm curious, who else here lost a big chunk of their late teens and early 20s to depression and feels as though they missed their chance to "mess around" and explore their sexuality directly?
Depression, poverty, Emotionally abusive family, and being raised in a cult. I don’t think I ever had a chance in hell to date. Hasn’t changed much since leaving all that.
Man, I fucked up college at 2007 and somehow time fast forwarded to 2016 without me realising it. Not even messing around with the idea of "messing around" Didn't figure out I was gay until I was 30. On top of that I'm going bald, ugh. Funny thing is I'm divided between "feelsbadman" and "I don't give a fuck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Not depression, but social anxiety and insecurity about things like my height, weight, hobbies and interests, etc. feel like they cause me to avoid trying to interact or open up to people I don’t know too well for fear of judgement and rejection. I’m certain it’s not too late for anyone replying to explore their sexuality eventually tho. But it’s gonna be something we need to actively work towards in order to find people rather than expecting it to fall into our laps.
Vaush is one of the only leftists that not only takes this seriously, but actually engages with the ideas and data presented. Too many lefty content creators just dismiss romantic and sexual trends because it comes from a specific group of people on the internet. Yes the manosphere is a cesspit, but that isn't an argument against their claims.
Exactly, we need to take care of all grievances young people have, and this is one that right wing groups use to recruit and lie about women, jews etc.
@@overanalyzingeverything8868 Correct. And those guys don't help themselves by reinforcing those stereotypes about themselves. Leftists need to engage with the data and arguments and the manosphere needs to chill the fuck out with the bigotry.
Vaush seems legitimately upset that his viewers can't take a men's issue serious for even 30 min. I feel bad for him. These are real issues and we can't get anywhere as a species if we don't learn to hear each other out across the board. Also, unhappy people are prone to radicalization. Just sayin.
Incels are censored everywhere yt reddit and know even sites like lookism are always getting banned what's worse is sites like incel tears or female dating strategy is up i hate women truly but i also hate males for banning incel circles
I still don't get why it is a problem. Why are you supposed to have sex? Why people automatically assume that no sex makes everyone suicidal and unhappy? Maybe the society has evolved to the point where people question more what they need and find other things in life. And this has really changed in past 10 years. There isn't so much peer pressure any more to find sex and partner because young people are increasingly hanging out online where nobody cares. This is also the first generation that basically grew up online so they are different. Thinking in the year 2008 was still pretty much the same, yes you had internet but it wasn't such a big part of your life as now. Also, people who were asked in 2008 were growing up without internet or using dial up where your online time was limited. Everyone had similar mindset back then. Teens had huge peer pressure to fit in and be normal, as well as expectations from the society. I was in my 20s back then, it was a totally different time. Mainstream taste and norms had huge impact. Kids were bullied for being virgins and talking online was considered weird and nerdy. Most teens communicated only with people they knew in real life, that means other teens. Now absolutely everyone can talk mostly online, without being too much influenced by the people surrounding them. If anything, technology has caused disinterest in sex. In Japan, the same trend is happening with women. It happens mostly in areas with dense population. Maybe it is nature's way to protect us from overpopulation.
You gotta be kidding me. The left cares and has always cared more, not just about men's issues, but everyones issues. The left cares more about people in general. The right-wing are simply butthurt about not having a label for men's issues the same way we have "black lives matter" or "feminism". Thus, they get frustrated that the left "has left them out". That's just childish thinking tbh.
@@TrumpForPrison2023 That's an interesting perspective. That hasn't been my experience. Generally if the topic of men's issues ever comes up around any of my outspoken feminist and/or left-wing friends it's generally met with denial and anger. I've seen the same thing online and in corporate culture. A common example I can think of is the game Magic: The Gathering. They are well known for being very inclusive and left-leaning company. When the community asked why a public figure in the company didn't acknowledge international men's day he gave a response of "Men don't deserve a day, they're not special." I'm paraphrasing. Admittedly that's just an anecdote, but that's how the majority of interactions that I've seen go, large and small.
@@JakeMGolle Well I respect the respectful response. There is a fringe but loud minority of radicals that think men's issues are not real. That said, there are half truths to it. The main argument is that sure, men have issues, but they also have the most privilages in life. I was born white straight male. I am humble enough to realize I won the lottery. I mean you just can't deny we have it easier in general. For instance men are much more likely to be promoted to a leadership position. So yes we have issues, but also privilages. These fringe people take it to the extreme and only mention our privilages.
@@TrumpForPrison2023 The Left has not had an objective discussion about men’s issues since... well at least 30 years. If the Left wants to keep people from flocking to the Right or other political groups, they need to put down the tribal identity politics bullshit and start addressing everyone as human beings who are part of a necessary social fabric.
@@networknomad5600 I find it funny that you claim the left needs to stop with the identity politics, but simultaniously say that people "flock to the right" because the left stopped caring about men's issues, which is identity politics. I don't know if you realized, but caring for men's issues is identity politics. Actually all of the right wing today is culture war identity politics. Moaning about censorship. Moaning about blue lives matter. Moaning about not standing up during anthem. Not a single policy proposal from the right except lower taxes. Meanwhile M4A, free college, eliminate student debt, green new deal - these are all left wing policy ideas that would actually help people, instead of the culture war nonsense.
Also to people saying sex is "overrated" you are in fact correct. You know what isn't overrated? Knowing people are attracted to you, knowing that you can be safe in sharing your sexuality with someone, knowing that someone desires you and gets joy from you being there. That shits pretty amazing imo. Like the sex part is "Meh" but theres a reason why people have a lot of sex even if the actual sex itself isn't always that good.
@DemocracyIsMobRuleOfTheStupid woman,black ppl,transgender has problems too just like lonely straight man who never had sex,ADHD,and introvert individuals as well. Don't be a reactionary *all* issues need societal support
To be fair, I'm a complete dumbass who didn't make the connection that less sexual partners also probably has a huge correlation to lack of platonic social groups as well. I assumed these people still had fulfilling social lives and friends, just that they weren't getting their dicks wet. Not that going without sex is anything to be ignored, it's a physical need for many and missing out on those kinds of things can lead to some depression, I just didn't think they were also drowning in solitude.
@Jonathon hey just because black men don’t have a problem with having multiple partners at a time it’s not stopping you doing the same, hold the blame.
Why is this a problem? Well, when you have a large population of sexually frustrated, isolated, and angry young men, desperate to find connection and meaning in their suffering, what do you think is going to happen? Especially if your first instinct is to greet them with the back of your hand and laugh at their predicament. One of the most potent experiences in forging one's ideology and overall beliefs is suffering. You can go in many different directions depending on what you identify as the source of your suffering. If our side refuses to even engage with these people, they'll glom on to the side that will. That's not to say that the Left has to placate toxic misogynist beliefs. Toxic misogynist beliefs are cultivated and reinforced through seeing things in a particular perspective, which further exacerbates the frustration that started this dark journey in the first place Inceldom can be nipped in the bud if you catch it early enough and corrected into more productive and healthy behavior and beliefs. Two things that can't be denied, Incels are angry and are seeking out something to believe in. You aren't going to solve anything, be it the culture that leads to their creation or their suffering itself, by dismissing them. You may dismiss them, but they won't just go away.
@Lynks 00 it’s not that simple. Like no one is just evil. Most people get driven to desperation for whatever reason. Obviously people like Elliot Roger what he did was horrible, but if we tried to address issues like this. Had parents actually spoken to him instead of just sending him away. Those deaths could have probably been avoided. Rapists, murders, child molesters will always exist. However we could be taking real action to minimize it. Right now we are very reactive and just punish people. There are better ways that will help future generations.
No one owes anybody sex. It is that simple. If that creates hysterical men, so be it. Men, married or not, will always complain about sex. They deserve to be ignored, not to be catered to.
@@pwh5805 You're right, nobody owes anyone sex. But intimacy and physical human expression is something humans crave and need, and people lacking human intimacy can lead to dangerous apathy. Your implied, strawman argument statement is already received loud and clear, which is, "women need to be forced to have sex with sexless men", which isn't the argument, that's a strawman solution to the argument. The argument is what is to be done about sexless men, and what are the societal consequences of dismissing this problem. Which had been shown so far, the radicalization of young men with poorly tuned or underdeveloped social skills, awkwardness or some form of personality disorder. The answer obviously isn't forcing women to have sex with sexless men. But that's the automatic, knee-jerk reactionary response by those who want to dismiss the problem outright, and then wonder why things are getting worse.
@@MastaOfMonkeyDisasta Women don’t want sex with a lot of men. So a lot of men will have sexless lives. They will just have to cope with that. You’re right, I don’t see it as a problem whatsoever. If some of these men cause societal problems, they should be put behind bars. There are plenty of women that have a non-existing sex life. They don’t demand attention or threaten to disrupt society. They just deal with it.
I know it’s probably just a bunch of teenage edgelords, but it’s still kind of concerning and sad when vaush says things like “men have problems too” and the chat just goes ballistic
@Angelo River Yeah!!! that is exactly what he is talking about here.... premarital-sex. The Boomers had the "60's social revolution" which made premarital-sex normal, and to NOT make the mistake of marrying the first person you make it with. Unless you are part of a conservative religious community, that really IS THE NORM.
The lack of sex isn’t so much the problem as the fact that it is correlated with a lack of romantic relationships, which itself is linked with people having smaller or no friendship circles. Stuff like the lack of a support group and touch deprivation seem to bring people down more than not having sex.
Respectfully disagree. I think sex is an important part of adult life. It is an activity that humans (as well as the majority of animals) have evolved to pursue and the vast majority of people are not okay with not being able to have sex. This is indeed a problem.
@@guerreiro943 The lack of sex in itself isn't pleasant, necessarily, but the stunted social circle and lack of a support groups is much worse. Fucking but lacking the rest still will fuck you up.
@@guerreiro943 well I basically agree that sex is important for most people. I should have precised that I was thinking specifically of the case of young male adults, where the lack of social circles is the more pressing matter that creates other problems, like the lack of sex.
Am I the only one that’s disappointed in chat? The lack of being able to think outside the lgbt+ bubble is kinda sad. I have absolutely nothing against the lgbt+ community, but this shows some of the worst of it. Lgbt+ issues are extremely important, but what vaush talks about here is important too
Let’s face the facts. The average LGBTQ persons life is only more difficult than the average hetero’s if they are trapped in a very traditionalist or homophobic setting. But in most places I don’t think it’s anymore of struggle for them than anyone else purely in relation to sexuality.
@@bbenn1ton351 I mean, I bet you that some starving families in third world countries have it harder than LGBT people in homophobic American families. So why should we care? Because the comparison doesnt matter. There's a problem in both places.
it's hate, and believing in leftists causes, and supporting the LGBT+ doesn't make you any less hateful. It just makes your hate more acceptable. Humanity refuses to move on from hate
I felt way less capable of dating and hooking up while I was living with my mom. Within 6 months of moving out I had my first “serious adult” girlfriend. It’s a bummer to be somebody who wants to date but doesn’t have their own place- really puts a damper on one’s sense of self worth.
I agree. Every sexual encounter I've had has been at the girls place. Either because she lived alone or her parents didn't care/didn't know. I could never bring a girl back to my parents because of where my bedroom is plus usually someone is always home. It's one of the reasons I want to move out.
@@OBAMNASODA761 True, I moved back in with my parents after a 10 year relationship broke down and let's just say it's been... a bit of a dry spell. (Admittedly my dad died shortly afterwards and I just haven't felt like getting into a relationship since)
Well, it puts a damper on men's self-worth, women can date just fine living with their parents. Men don't care about women having there own place as much. But yes, I agree
Only Vaush can start a segment talking about increased loneliness in men because of depressive socioeconomic factors and end on “what are bowling balls made of?”
@@MaximusTCR Bruh, lefties try to cancel Vaush all the time, what are you talking about? LOTS of progressive lefties talk mad shit about him without having even watched his stuff, he's probably one of the most contentious lefties in the progressive left sphere. He just keeps on trucking, saying "fuck the haters". Hasan might "bolster the fantasy" more, but I've even seen him having it out with his audience because they're being bad faith and uncharitable as some progressive lefties are wont to be.
Lol. it isn't a bad thing. It's only bad for the men that can't pass down their genes. But do we need more loser men in this world ? I'd rather only have the smart, successful men reproduce. There is no need for more useless men who are just going to end up in their parents basement, working a meaningless job, or on welfare. No kid wants to grow up knowing their dad is a broke loser. That's why i don't see a woman who wants a man with money as a bad thing like these incel complain about. .
@@kablooyy nah It's ain't good in countries where men can't get access to womem, they tend to resort to more shaddy ways of getting a wife. for example in china lots of poor men in rural areas, can't get wifes due to migration also over factors like women's rights, so as a result they get mail brides from vietnam or thailand. Just the more poor women also take a brunt of a impact.
@@kablooyy the problem here is people being starved for intimacy. This is a problem and it’s only going to get worse. Incels aren’t the problem they are the product of our shallow modern world.
As a virgin, I mostly just want a positive connection with someone. Sex isn't necessary to me, a good person to lean on is starting to become a thing I'm needing.
@@MsFasty I'm a virgin, but I'm always hesitant to agree that sex is overrated. From what I've heard, the ppl. who say sex is overrated are ppl. who aren't having enough of the right kind of sex (not that I would know). And I say this as someone who has spent the last 5 years craving *intimacy,* not sex!
As a bi dude, if I wanted to sleep with a guy, I could get one to my place quicker than I could order a pizza. If I wanted to sleep with a woman, I'd have to go out and slay a dragon, metaphorically speaking. Which do you think I'm doing?
Haha i know exactly what you are talking about, I gave up on dating women long ago, such a waste of time and so bad for your self esteem if you are short like me xD Men are so much less judgemental overall.
As a straight guy, I’ve been amazed at the overt attention I’ve gotten from gay guys vs women. One guy even bought me a drink one time. I thought, “Wow, is this what it’s like to be a pretty girl?” It was actually kind of an ego boost lol
@@couldntthinkofacoolname9608 It does tho. Women are harder to date becouse they judge very harshly on race, height, and looks,. Aswell as filtering out anyone with any percieved mental problems and most women being unwilling to date men who make less money then they do. Its not impossible to get a girlfriend if you are ugly and poor but you have to be both a charismatic social person and a comedian. And most ppl just aint especially ugly folk tend to be more introverted for obvious reasons.. And its almost impossible to date women if you are autistic for example even if you are a 10. As where most men wil accept all these things,
I can't believe that Vaush just had to explain to his audience why people not forming relationships is a bad thing. They are so incredibly hard headed.
I wouldn't call them hard headed lol. It's just that we are slowly all getting used to being "happy and single", that's why we don't see it as a problem at first. Like, okay, so they don't get laid, big deal. It's only after you think "oh, but what if that's from anti social behaviour?" Edit: and of course being happy and single is great, it's amazing, I only mean it being more visible in the discourse
The graph and the main jyst of the discussion was around males who can't find female partners and alot of vaush's audience is LGBTQ+ and they get uber irritated whenever he talks about problems related to cis men. It's the "I and my community have bigger problems so why we talking about them privileged cis males?" mentality. Ironically, that's probs one of the main reasons alot of cis men nowadays end up being radicalised by conservatives, they feel right wingers listen to their issues like the one from this video more than lefties do
@@damjanp7920 Excellent point! I'm not super sold on the modern left myself, for this very reason. Problems, although they may be smaller in scope, still need addressing to some degree or another.
I mean. Socialising is really expensive. You go out with friends but no one really wants to just hang out in the woods or something (if they are adults especially). Making friends cost money. Going out with friends for a few drinks is really nice but spending the money is painful. This is a real problem. I’m not cis and not male and not straight but I completely understand what Vaush was addressing here.
“Ok but y’see, it’s an individual problem. It’s a problem for that individual, and that individual, and that individual over there. And actually it’s a problem for 27% of individuals in this group. But it can’t be systemic or societal oh no, this can be fixed if 27% of men just individually cleaned their rooms” Edit: Not that interested in reply discourse but I want to elaborate on this statement up here. I’m not an incel or a VDS case. My comment was to make fun of people who think this is ONLY an individual problem. I agree with Vaush’s takes in this video of it having both societal and individual solutions.
@@lordlubu3029 hes making fun of Jordan Peterson and conservatives who tell these men to fix themselves rather than addressing the issues that lead to them being like this
I genuinely cannot believe that chat did not realize that incels are a symptom of a much larger problem and also that not having sex for at least a year indicates not having a relationship which indicates difficulty interacting with and relating to other people which leads to loneliness and alienation , WHICH IS BAD.
I'd argue with the pandemic, if you weren't in a committed relationship before... it would be prudent to not be trying to date and have you know in the pandemic.
Yes, and another contributing factor. Social/Relationship/Sexual pre-selection. It essentially becomes a cycle of Meet people< People sense awkwardness < People reject < Rejection sensitivity increases < Less likelihood of trying in the future < Further social ostracization. Women/society have no idea what it's like to be stuck in this cycle. It's emotional hell.
@@ozone8259 I suppose I could agree that most women probably don't understand it, I'm autistic so I'm a victim of the same cycle. That contributing factor is actually lessening these days, though, as the incel community has engaged in aggressive recruiting of young men who have never even had a rejection because they're like 13-17 and yet r/MGTOW and its precursors have already taught them to hate women and that if they aren't naturally "Chads," they might as well give up before they even try. I predict that there are going to be more and more acts of violence committed by young men who have been groomed and indoctrinated by the incel/MGTOW online communities in the future.
@@petrify4814 Unfortunately, I think you're correct. Also unfortunately, I don't think there are any solutions. Whatever the root causes of the problem, it's going to be very difficult to stop such violence if it starts to occur at scale.
I'm 21 mostly straight guy. Never had sex, a kiss, hell even a real relationship before. I missed my boat in high school and haven't gone to college. Most of my friends are at least 7 years older than me and either married or in long lasting relationships. It's fucking hard man. Plus I'm working at home, can't meet anybody, and get zero interaction on any dating apps I've tried. I don't think I'm super ugly or that weird either. It's pretty fucking disheartening tbh Edit: Holy shit guys I don't need advice on how to talk to people. I have friends. Just never a romantic parter. I appreciate it y'all but please stop giving me basic life tips
@@OBAMNASODA761 I live in America but will feel better about it once I get vaccinated. I'm not like ruined by it I have good family and friends but it really feels like I missed the boat on that part of life
You didn't miss a boat in high school what. My high school relationships were terrible, we were just dumb kids that didn't know what the fuck we were doing. There is no line where you should have had sex or been in a relationship.
I'm 23, going on 24 this year. I'm in the same boat but starting to feel better about myself. It gets easier if you learn to separate your self worth from others' perception of you. I've always had a bit of a thing for MILFs anyway so I should be fine dating later in my 20s 😅. Late bloomer solidarity brother!
The problem I have with this take of "go out and be sociable" is that in today's world, anytime someone tries to interact with someone they don't know it's not seen as some guy being sociable. They take it as "who the fuck is this creepo trying to talk to me?" "Eew go away, social interaction? Nah fam I'm taking selfies for the gram right now."
To a certain extent, exactly. The only place it is acceptable to be sociable anymore is at pre-arranged social events (which hardly anyone has the time or energy to attend anymore, even if they weren't banned due to the pandemic). Anything outside of that sphere has been relegated online (even dating; most of the girls I knew personally in university were either already committed or using online dating). Now, I'm not going to deny that a lot of men don't do a lot to make themselves appealing partners, but at the same time, I've done what *I* can to improve *my* appearance & social ability, and a lot of women still look at me like I'm a creep when we're passing by each other on the street. (And I'm not even checking them out! Either I'm looking at the street ahead of me or making eye-contact; that's it).
@@GebreMMII Well, grooming is a part of it, if not the only one. It's really complicated, from what I can tell. You get different resp. from different people, but trends do count for something. For me, I'm not sure what it is. I admit that I have a lot of flaws, so it could be any one. Personally, I think it's my height & my hair (hair-gel is expensive yo, on my modest budget I can't afford to use it just for a trip to the grocery store), but maybe its a partially unconscious thing. Who knows?
imo the older people are much more sociable ,easier to socialize with. people younger than me (34) or the same age tend to react as you described. its weird.
Women also have lots of positive platonic relationships that are allowed to flourish which reduces loneliness. Men are isolated emotionally in many platonic relationships which puts extra pressure on romantic relationships which women don't have.
@First Amendment Ah, no, gorgeous women who have shitty personalities have shitty friends who mostly put up with them to get the chance at sex maybe someday. That’s a sad situation
@First Amendment They get “friends” that they shouldn’t trust. Sometimes it’s better than no one at all, but at the end of the day who wants friends who don’t support you or worse, want to take advantage of you?
@First Amendment You know, if you’re just nice to people and fun to be around (as in, projecting positivity, not complaining or trying to dump your problems on others every time you see them, having interests worth talking about) YOU WILL MAKE FRIENDS. Men and women in our society have different sorts of social value, traditionally, but most people don’t ascribe to it in the extreme way you do. Get close friends first, then talk about personal stuff. Don’t go to a bar trying to tell everyone about your problems. No one wants to deal with that from a man or a woman. Having friends, especially good, reliable ones, requires effort and time. There aren’t shortcuts to that for either gender.
@First Amendment no, most women are are just more extroverted and have better social skills. Also they put *considerably* more effort into their appearance and how they present. As an introverted immigrant woman with average appearance totally possible to be invisible. I am not complaining, just describing reality.
For me it's more 'ok, what kind of loser would find *this* attractive?' Now, I haven't had to deal w/ the consequences of that speculation, since so far as I know nobody has found me attractive. If someone professed they did find me attractive, I often wonder if I would believe them. Granted, my dating pool *is* largely what broader society would call 'losers' but dammit, they're *my* losers & for my money I think they're cute. Admittedly, sometimes I wonder if that impulse is a manifestation of some subconscious complex that prevents me from going after 'conventionally' attractive pretty ppl. Jury's out, since the only feeling I seem to illicit from women is benign disinterest.
I met a girl online. She wants to come see me and I don't know how to tell her I'm fucking mortified of a realtionship. I don't want to miss this chance but I kind of do. I can't even tell what's self sabotage and what's not anymore.
That "fuck all men" in the chat really fucking hurt. Even though I'm in a good relationship now I still remember those days of feeling so lonely. Screw sex, it's the fact that knowing someone truly loves you and wants to be with you that counts for most men. To all my fellow men out there, you are not obligated to lose your virginity, you shouldn't feel like you have to. As men, we need to work on supporting each other as brothers if we want to start overcoming that feeling of loneliness.
I’m sorry Vaush but just saying “don’t be weird” is really unhealthy. I think a lot of these guys already have crippling social anxiety, giving them that advice is only going to feed into their anxiety. How are they supposed to act not weird when all they can do is be anxious about acting weird. Super unproductive
Autism rates are going up. And cancel culture/political correctness hits them the hardest. In my opinion Antifa is an ableist anti-autistic hate group.
@The Naughty Police I hear you. I don’t think his skill set or the platform lend themselves to that. That’s the mindset you need to have for this and if you’re weird to everyone, that’s better than just being weird to women. That’s basically me, and so long as things stay totally plutonic, women are comfortable around me because it’s obvious that I’m just weird all around and not weird because of them. With practice, I can improve my social skills and will be less weird. Then if I wanted to I could find a partner. Unlike your job, your effort determines your outcome somewhat. TLDR, it’s good advice and pretty much exactly what i do to be social
People are acting like every virgin guy is an alt right incel. I have friends in their 20’s who are lovely, caring, and considerate people who cannot find relationships. It’s a real problem that society is refusing to acknowledge
People refuse to acknowledge the problem because of exactly what you said - they assume something is wrong with the guy and he's an evil alt-right shithead.
Ive always thought Japan was an interesting country but would never want to live there cause of that. And yet it feels like everywhere is becoming like Japan now. How do I escape this terrifying work culture 😩
@@daryno9073 I think it’s because Japan has more class consciousness so they know that they’re being fucked over and invented their own word for it, Americans typically don’t recognize this shit happening to them
Yes, sad but true! Sexual frustration and especially loneliness are 2 of the big ways that can lead more and more straight men to the alt-right, or at least to establish patriarchy!
I lost my virginity late and it's really not that big a deal, but I expected to be a wholly different person on the other side of it. I think we ought to put sex on less of a pedestal. It's a fun hobby or partner activity, like hiking or billiards. Not a requirement to be a whole individual. The central issue I think you're really arguing against here is the lack of romantic partners or just basic human contact and emotional intimacy from close friends, which I would argue might actually be a real societal issue.
Yeah, I left Christianity recently. Never bothered me that I'm 21 and a virgin until doing so, and then I got weirdly bothered that I'm 21 and a virgin after I left. Realistically there's no rational reason I should care, just purely cultural shit
To be fair, sex has been put on a pedestal in nearly every human society because it is central to how societies propagate themselves. That, and we're hardwired to want it bad.
I'm a feminist. I always have been. In the past I struggled to take men's issues seriously. I live in a 3rd world country, so when people would say, "Men aren't getting laid enough and that's an issue!" I couldn't help but be critical. Through time and education, I've realised these are issues with much more nuance that we have to take seriously and address. The men that turn to incel and right wing mra groups are hurting themselves and other people. For women that have been hurt by men it is easy to find catharsis in bashing them. But it is not productive.
Btw: This does not mean, feminists are responsible for men's issues. And I saw a lot of incel type comments. Sex is not owed to anyone. The solution here is NOT to tell women to lower their standards and "be nicer"
@@cheshirecat303 Feminists should speak about men's issues. The patriarchy hurts everyone, and it's better that men know this before they turn to some sexist men's rights group that does blame all of mens problems on women and feminism. Intersectional feminism is the key to all of this.
@@gregoryadams9025 a lot of feminists do talk about men’s issues. But a lot of those men don’t want to listen if she’s not bashing and blaming women for men’s problems when it’s the patriarchy’s fault.
@@boobah3701 Yeah I agree, there are alot of misogynists out there. However, optically you can't ignore that anti feminists will use legitimate men's issues to weasel in their misogynist talking points, and having feminists validate that there are actual problems men face, while also providing counters to those misogynistic talking points, will do far more for our movement than ignoring them bc some men just want misogynistic validation.
The fact that so many people in the chat failed to understand why this is a huge issue displays a terrifying lack of empathy within this community. I'm disappointed in you people.
Im a leftist and a woman at that, no im not being a pick me or anything but this KAM or men are all shit is just a stupid ideology no matter who you are. Yes men are more privileged and some of them may have hurt you but holding a grudge and having this certain generalization over a certain group of people is exhausting and hypocritical especially when it is people who you are attracted to and like everytime I feel as if say this to my female peers they are going to chew me out while I can acknowledge that they have privilege I can acknowledge generalizing them isnt going to do us better or any good This was a quick take sorry if I didn’t provide enough information I’ll explain more if you ask me
People often misunderstand the problems of being a virgin. They think, virgins are depressed, because they want to lose the V-Card. This claim is off course wrong. I 31 am one too. Being a virgin as an adult - if not self choosen - is problematic because A) humen have a need to experience mental (having a chat, compliments, romantic etc...) and physical intimacy (kisses, sex, cuddling etc...) in a romantic context. This Intimacy occurs in romantic encounters like a marriage, a realationship or a one night. If you get already rejected for the most minimal form of this encounters, there will be sooner or later a lack in this basic human need. Like every lack in a need, it influences drastically your mental respectively physical health. For years now I have panic-attacks, Insomnia and other issues becausw if this lack. B) The more options you have the more you can fulfill your idea of your sexuality. If your idea of sexuality matches your lack of options you are lucky, but if not, you are very limited. C) what I said in A) is well documented. There have been approximately hundreds studys about this topic. People without this kind of intimacy died younger, reported more physical and psychological issues. Especially if they have been living under this circumstances for so long. They compared it with the same affects you have as a chronicle smoker or drinker. People need to understand this.
@@lovemeh7899 as a feminist I couldn’t agree more! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s rough being in the middle because you get hate from both extremes but at the end of the day you’ll have a clear conscience and the right people will notice
I was raised in the 60's who raised a son from 2000 until now. The amount of "culture" that is online presented a major challenge. When their personality is already on the introverted side, coupled with the vast amount of entertainment to be consumed, with online gaming on every device within arms reach.... the usual obstacles and risk, that boys/men previously were "driven" to overcome, which can have an enormous "learning curve", just to experience some success becoming intimate with a girl/woman, are clearly NOT being mastered or even attempted. So much is learned from watching your successful friends and older siblings, in this arena. Sure, with some, it comes naturally, and easily, but the rest of us (meaning, not super handsome males), are being distracted and medicated into apathy. Many of us remember how our first experiences resulted from opportunity by chance.... being in close proximity to someone agreeable to first time experimentation ... it came from going to Summer Camp, or after school club activities... hanging in the park after dark sharing some music, and a bottle of Strawberry Hill with "friends". Long stretches of boredom and "downtime" created "opportunity" and also resulted in some serious scheming on our part... Planning parties when "someone's parents go out of town", or going to such parties......But most kids I know, never allow themselves to be bored for even a split second, there IS NO downtime .... Then of course there is online PORN, to quell whatever urges arise, so "who needs actual sex?", and "why put up with ALL that, which comes along with arranging it?" The result being... poor social skills, sense of learned defeat, and parents desperately getting a script containing some libido killing anti depressant for their "depressed" screen monkey child. My wife was careful to MAKE SURE he didn't spend all of his time with a device... he was part of a team in "Odyssey of the Mind".... took part in physical activities outdoors, swimming, skate boarding, bicycle riding etc... where there were plenty of female friends around. And we encouraged "his interest in girls", and always drove him to wherever, and picked him up no matter how inconvenient. It worked out well in that department for sure.... but he is still very stunted socially, which is par for the course nowadays. Some of his peers were not so fortunate.... a couple of them HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING beyond what's possible to do, sitting in front of their computer screen, and they are 23 yrs old, with no desire to try anything beyond that. When I was growing up, there was NO SUCH THING as entertainment which could interest/occupy you beyond a couple of hours here and there... so real life pursuits were an absolute "MUST". I could see this alarming statistic coming a mile away.... I understand that Japan is much further along in this problem. This is JUST my perception based on my own experiences in life, I'm sure there is much more to add in other situations. My 2 cents. Cheers.
As a teen born in the 2000s I definitely agree with this analysis. One thing I’ve noticed is that the whole concept of male female relationships is very much tied to online interaction (Snapchat/ Instagram). That makes an even bigger disadvantage for guys who aren’t good looking because they’re pretty much only being judged by their looks since it’s impossible through their true personality to be shown through social media. I’ve grown up in a very liberal bubble so the whole thing has always been very female centric. Girls now control the beauty standards in the same kind of way they complained about in the past. One thing I have noticed though is that girls are more likely to drift towards guys that many other girls like. This kind of creates a large amount of guys who are left out of the dating/ hookup scene.
Shit. Yeah I'm 28 and I'm old enough to know life without pervasive easily accessible technology and Young enough to not have an archaic view of of it. I work with a lot of younger people and my god , these young kids especially male are something else. What is considered the norm now as in terms of social development would have had u tormented as a kid back when i went through. They just lack the fire
@@bbenn1ton351 basically the same from what I've noticed. The dating scene has been reduced to being screened through online initially ,now now that women can cherry pick due the connectivity the internet has granted them in terms of reaching more attractive men they otherwise wouldn't know about , average looking guys that normally would have a semblance of a normal dating life are competing with older more establisjed men with the body of a Greek god.
Haven't watched the video yet but as a male virgin who is 20, ill just say that I feel like the biggest factor is living with my parents. And I feel like as gen z lives later and later with their parents the average age of virgins gets higher, for I assume everyone not just guys.
Ohh and one more thing is I live in a very unpopulated place in Canada so even on Tinder, all my matches are an hour away so I just don't feel the incentive nor have the time to meet up where I may or may not even end up liking them.
Idk how it is in canada, but where im from living with your parents has no effect on a womans sexual prospects but is a huge disadvantage for men. In the words of the great steven kenneth bonnelli the second, "for a woman, having your shit together means you arent smoking crack but for a man you have to have your own place, your own car, a good paying job, etc. "
The irony is that most of Vaush's chat asking "why is this a problem" are probably they themselves virgins and try to pretend they're too emotionally detached for that stuff to affect them. Fact of the matter is, unless you're asexual or something, most people need this kind of intimacy. Point is, you'd have to be some kind of idiot to not understand why this is a problem.
Yeah I'd love to see those people uttering that stuff.. they are probably not half as tough as they pretend to be. Real strength is in vulnerability and admitting flaws.
There are about 40 million men under thirty in the U.S., so this stat represents something like 8 million men who are not having sex over and above previous generations and even older millennials. That is a lot of people.
you also have to remember this is all self reported. and we all know men are ashamed of their lack of sexual success, so the real number of incels is likely way higher than stated.
It's stuff like this that keeps me convinced that we need to normalize platonic intimacy with men. Until we rectify the societal issues that make relationships, child rearing, marriage, etc. untenable, we need to make it okay to talk about and reasonably expect sympathy and love when talking about these things. Let me say this: I drank myself to an unhealthy level one time in college. Had my roommates not come back to the apartment and seen the crying, drunken mess I was in, I'm really not sure what would have happened to me. I was seven or so shots in and didn't really intend on stopping. When they hugged me and told me everything would be alright and gave me the space to voice me pains, that was the most liberating thing I'd ever felt. Granted, we were all drunk, but we continued having those conversations sober, and rooming with those three was literally the best moment of my life. It'll take a bit to solve these issues, so let's at least normalize talking about it without demonizing people.
I hate when people say "oh not having sex is not that big of a deal". This is less about sex and more about an increasing number of men having no romantic partner in their life, or even any social connections at all. Having no sex is whatever, but having no one to talk to is really what crushes your spirit.
Kinda both. Having sex is naturally healthy. You're not naturally supposed to not ever have sex. It releases hormones that need to be released to be mentally healthy. Masturbation doesn't release them hormones like sex w another human being does.
Damn, Vaush cut out that great part where he yells at a chatter for assuming that just because people are virgins that means there is something wrong with them. That is exactly the line of thinking that constantly runs through the heads of insecure men. "I am different than everybody else. There is something wrong/broken about me." Great job socially reenforcing that anxiety chat!
@@jace5151 Maybe, but the original commenter here wants to be part of the solution. Feminists who denies men's issue being serious and worth talking about are a problem, but in this instance she explicitely said the opposite. No need to be uncharitable
The audience is mainly if not completely Gen Z, and Gen Z= Young teens and adults fresh off being teens, often overdosing on Memes, Self Deprecating humor and also not being the brightest, a serious subject like this was bound to be taken badly. Saying as a Gen Zer born in 2000.
i was one of the people in chat asking why it was a problem. it was a genuine question. however i am asexual so that probably affects my perception of the topic
But the thing is...a rise in male virginity isn't a problem in and of itself. It's just a symptom. When you concentrate on treating the symptoms and let the disease continue to run rampant, that doesn't really fix anything. Therein lies the reasoning for the question.
@@littlewyzard I'm sure you like connecting with people, you probably have friends. The incel problem is not even about sex, that's a big part of the problem is the discussion is always around their actions or the fact they can't get laid. When you have poor social skills and all people do is criticize your lack of social skills you stop trying. People don't teach empathy they just expect it and when they don't see it they shame the person who lacks it. People ignoring their problems is the reason so many of them are disenfranchised because society as a whole literally doesn't care. None of this has anything whatsoever to do with them being unable to get laid. Your asexuality shouldn't even be part of the conversation and the fact that you go there first shows you probably didn't understand what Vaush was trying to say still after the fact. Your asexuality affecting your perception makes literally no sense whatsoever
This is why i liked living in a small town. Everyone knew everyone. It was a community. If there was an event in town everyone was kept in the loop and everyone felt included. It doesn't surprise me that my first casual romantic fling with a girl happened in that small town. But now that i'm back in the city? Despite the fact that there are hundreds of thoasands of people near me, if i died right now it would probably take 3 weeks for anyone to discover my body. Cities are paradoxically isolating
I'm from a rural, small town area and it's pretty terrible for the most part. The people are rigid, paranoid, and judgmental. There are very few people my own age out there. There are no community events, opportunities, or jobs. But in the big cities, there's life. There's community. And it's sure as shit easier to get laid. I think people tend to idolize an idea of small towns that hasn't existed in the US for a long time. Rural America is decomposing.
@@clairebishop6038 At this point, I'm not sure if even that exists- since so much of American suburbia has been designed with car use in mind, rather than ease of movement during non-car-driving years (adolescence, and old age). So unless you live in a prewar neighborhood, or some swanky new development in a city either immune from, or willing to break, zoning laws, you're fucked too. God bless America
@Jo Jo i mean... Good for you i guess. Im an adult so bar crawling and impromptu hangouts don't really happen. Most people i know work 40 hours a week, and or have families and other responsibilities. I cant just call up one of my old high school buddies and go bar hopping. Especially now that we're in an economic crisis and still recovering from a world wide pandemic. I dont really have a ton of opportunitys to meet people, and the ones i do meet dont typically have any reason to stick around and it becomes a one off thing before we part ways. Its cool that you have a big social network of friends you can rely on, but that is an incredibly rare thing for most people post college age. Its not as simple as just "go meet new people".
@@LukeTheArtist96 and as I found out the hard way while camping in rural New Mexico a few years ago if you don't look or think like the locals (or have a weird foreign accent like I do sometimes, I can pass off as white if I try really hard but how I speak and my name give it away) sometimes you won't get a warm welcome to say the least. I know I'm generalizing and that not all towns are like that but being of Mexican origin I try to stay out of (or at least be very careful) most of these areas because sometimes it feels like the only thing waiting for me there is a KKK or MAGA rally to welcome me, I've never forgotten what Trump said about us being "rapists" and I assume his fan base hasn't either (and that aforementioned incident happened almost exactly one month before the Walmart shooting that happened because somebody wanted to kill people like me and that store just happened to be in my hometown) and hearing from other people back in college on how they got treated when passing through the Deep South just a few years ago doesn't help that perception. Even if the racism and xenophobia weren't an issue I feel that I'd probably still have a hard time socializing because I'm an atheist (and very liberal at this point too) if I was open about it and from what I've heard from other ex-Christians living in rural areas is that those places tend to be very religious compared to cities (although this probably depends on what part of the country we're talking about). Because of all of this I'd rather live in a big city where everyone treats me like a nobody (and I don't disagree with what the first comment said about cities) than living in a place where everyone sees me as an outside threat for not being born in the right place or having the right ancestry, I'd only move to the latter if homelessness was my only other option probably considering how expensive many urban areas are to live in.
Something that struck me was a survey earlier in the lockdown about young people and feelings of isolation and loneliness. The headline was about how more girls feel new feelings of isolation and loneliness, but buried in the article was that a large percentage of boys did not feel any more isolated and lonely than before! That was sad to hear
Yeah... I'm not a virgin, being a pretty attractive guy, but a tight financial situation and depression keeps me at home for at least 4 years. My lifestyle essentially didn't change at all during the pandemic :D
Literally the only change in my daily life is not going to sporting events. I work and live alone. I went through college making zero new friends. While I was trying to go out and meet people with hobbies, it never went anywhere friends or dating wise. I actually might be less depressed than pre_COVID because I am not burning energy trying to be social and meet people like I used to.
I don't think it's about taboo but everybody is sorta in limbo with life. From not making enough money, covid, phone apps etc most of us are really just filling time.
Can we address the fact that socializing is expensive... wages are stagnant & costs are rising. I was the poorest person in a friend group & it was a constant issue, even if inderectly, like gas prices.
Very late response, but yeah it fucking sucks. KNOWING that the "proper" thing to do for basically any gathering is to bring food or drinks or something for everyone that costs money, but not being able to afford it. So, any social gathering brings up loads of mental anguish, feeling like a failure, feeling like you're unable to act properly, etc. Obviously, having to deal with that with any social interaction makes it hard to succeed with socialization and encourages avoidance.
Yep, I basically live off social security and luckily I can pretty comfortably get the essentials payed for, but there’s hardly any money left after that
Such a good point at the 14 minute mark. There really aren't any public spaces for people to go and socialize. Any place with that description has the strict expectation that you're there to spend money, spend money, and leave once you've stopped spending money. It's so, so sad
Bro you are 100% projecting your own anxieties. Go to a bar or a coffee shop, buy one drink, and nurse it. So long as it isn't super super busy no one is going to kick you out.
Find a place to volunteer, take a class on a hobby (some are free or almost free), start going to a support group or a meet up. You can get out without spending money.
Community centers to hang out, play games and make friends should be a thing for adults. I know there’s some for the elderly and some for teens, but they should be a thing everywhere tbh
@@lopoa126 Not everyone drinks, and bars are places to go with friends that you already have. I'm talking about a place to actually go to meet other people who want to make friends.
@@puddin4884 less bars and more concerts hosted in bars tbh. Theres usually people staying behind after the concert for the sole purpose to chat and drink (you dont have to drink) I feel like community centers are way too anxiety inducing
Wouldn't surprise me. For one, men have to deal with a culture that judges them harshly for not getting any. The polar opposite of the 'slut shaming' that women get: Male virgins are stock comedy characters, something to be pitied and mocked, and dismissed as immature man-children.
@@theliberation9061 that's why the manosphere advice of "it's a numbers game" is so terrible. It just results in more rejections. A more targeted approach works better (meaning find someone you have something in common with and build a rapport, some emotional connection and then ask her out, as opposed to just randomly asking out every woman you see.)
@@vylbird8014 The amount of "no guys want me" from females is mind boggling, considering that i have swiped right on their dating app profile, gets super annoying. I always hear from guys about how they were talking to a female, only to send a smiling photo and get rejected because she calls them ugly.
@@lynnes1864 The are no "targets" for us incels, I know it is hard to believe for a woman who can get basically whoever she wants and thus has the luxury to choose, but for a not so small percentage of male population there are simply no women who will ever desire them or a number way too small for them to have a chance to meet. And you can "connect" as much as you want, the most you can have is a friendship with the "any girl would be really lucky to have a you as a boyfriend (not me tho lol)" sentence thrown at you
Your advice about mini golf is exactly how I got off the path to becoming an incel. I just found a bunch of dumb meet-up things online and went to as many as I could. One was a barbeque, one was a hike, one was at a club, they were pretty forgettable. But I hit it off with a hot nurse at one. But she had a boyfriend. But I wasn't weird to her, and she invited me to a monthly rock club event that she staffed. I got to know her better and one day I just ran into her while walking around town. She introduced me to her even hotter friend, who I am now married to. The moral of this story is that if I had not spent months of effort purposely trying to socialize, I would probably still be a virgin.
@@davidkennedy4339 Plenty of girls shorter than that. Being social is a skill, if you practice it you will get better. I absolutely hated going out and doing that stuff. In a way I was acting a part the whole time. But I got better at it and eventually it became second nature going in and out of "social mode".
@@davidkennedy4339 i know men shorter than that with worse problems who manage to get laid or get married. you have to put yourself out there. a good heart, sense of humor, interesting things to say, sharp mind, sense of confidence, or genuine empathy will make up for height. note: i'm not saying you need to have all of those things lmao. maybe ... two. two of those things at least. if you're a genuinely good person and you show respect for and interest in the people around you, others will respond.
@@aklszkopek3470 Many people have deleted their replies and it looks like you are talking to yourself. In any case you are fully right about this, many incel forums and virgin groups are becoming right wing holes such as 4chan etc. Apreciate another Turkish leftist by the way. Ankaradan selamlar.
@@billieeisenhower406 well, they usually have some social problems, are 'hated' even by left leaning groups, lack representativity on said groups and because of all that (and other factors too) are easily alienable. (not a native speaker btw)
@@l.3ok they have plenty of representation, l don't care if they feel alienated because one or two trans or gay people decide to address actual systemic injustices done to them.
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Vaush said here except maybe the minigolf stuff. tbh people will think I'm creepy just because of stuff like -- I don't smile much, I'm tall, or wear sweatpants and hoodies a lot. I can tell by the stares, people walking past me quickly, and parents grabbing their kids quickly. at this point my mentality is just "meh, ok, fk those ppl then. I don't want friends who are so judgmental anyway. etc.." but this only makes me want to be more asocial too because of how anxious basically everyone is. I really don't think just any public place is a good place to make new friends.
I have always felt sympathy for this issue. Specifically because I am a woman who from a young age had a very difficult time making friends as I am a bit mentally ill and extremely socially awkward. On top of this my family is super toxic and not close. I was super lonely and then puberty hit and all of a sudden men asked me out. I still have a super difficult time socially making friends especially almost 30 years old and no way to meet people in a non weird way and it makes me super sad. But I always used my ability to easily have romantic relationships and never once initiated one to offset this issue. In fact I would date men I didn’t particularly like because the only way I could hang out with someone is if they wanted to have sex with me it seemed and I hate being so alone. I literally didn’t have friends so I would be like yeah we can go on a date and get dinner. I felt so desperate for friendship as someone who is basically asexual I would look at sex as the price to pay for connection. Now when I see men who don’t even have that outlet, I really feel for it. Like wow that must be rough. And I mean that sincerely. I have a husband and a child and should feel super fulfilled but my lack of friends still is like a sore spot and something that hurts me and makes me feel isolated. If I didn’t even have that, wow my issues would be exacerbated.
Your words resonated a lot with me, it's so crazy how relatable it is. Reading your comment is like reading my whole life summary except that my parents were super religious so I couldn't date around. I hope you and your family will have a bright future, filled with nothing but positivity.
@@taketheblackpillneo3940 That’s what I said. I said I was lucky to have it easy romantically because I know how hard it can be before that was an option. But I have had my romantic problems, one of my exes tried to kill me and it ruined my life for a few years. So things are complicated. And everyone has their own struggles. Women and men have it very hard in different ways. Sometimes you want to give the lonely guy a chance and he tries to murder you. So it isn’t easy for us to know who we can trust and whose issues will lead to problems in the future.
It's quite tragic.. both sides really. But I don't blame you, you used what you had to get your needs met. I can just about imagine the pain you caused yourself with this by allowing the wrong people in. It's still an abundance problem, wheras men have the opposite issue. Trained to be lonely, unable to connect with each other.. and too awkward socially but expected to initiate.
Honestly I think this might be a big part of it. In high school I was so terrified of knocking a girl up, I passed up opportunities to lose my v card just because safe sex could still cause pregnancy.
@@markbrandt3252 the data doesn't really bear that out places with abstinence only education actually have higher rates of teen pregnancy and STDs so if anything that education either contributes nothing to this issue or has the opposite effect
Friendly reminder to anyone who needs this: You’re a good person. Keep working on yourself. Don’t give up. Having sex is not the key to happiness of success.
This shit is real. I was there. I was one of those people. I was addicted to drugs and started failing in my classes... I found my wonderful girlfriend, but this shit is absolutely legit, and it's crushingly depressing. Loneliness snowballs my dude, and you never realize how emotionally starved you are until it's too late...
@@danielsan901998 it's funny how miserable some people make dating. One ex kept threatening to cut herself if I broke up with her because she would feel lonely, only to cheat on me and go back to her ex because she didn't feel like I cared enough about her. I really didn't want to be in a suicide note. Manipulate people suck.
I took a college course on psychology a few years back and my professor started talking about how we are actually having less sex than previous generations. He made a joke how the "sexually liberated" new generation the older generation seems to paint us with is actually kinda a myth. One of the factors he brought up was the internet being used now for more socializing and the ready available access to porn. And I gotta say, I feel like porn his a huge factor. Not cause it sets some type of "unrealistic standard", but for me personally, When ever i feel lonely and want to text than special someone if they wanna meet up, I usually just watch some porn and then im fine after. Still super lonely, but that post nut clarity, am i right? lol
Agree with everyhting you said besides one thing. Porn does very much set unrealistic standards. Espeically for womens body but thats a conversation for another day.
You just gotta turn on the notifications and check your phone every now and then. The title doesn't get updated on the pop-up so you'll be able to say that you were here during the minimalist title era in the future.
I was a virgin into my 20s, because I had a serious lack of self-confidence and just figured that I was hideous to the opposite sex, so there was no point looking for a partner. It made me a bit awkward when I found myself attracted to a woman and (after agonizing over the feelings I had for way too long) tried to make an advance. I guess I could easily have fallen into the MRA bubble, but I didn't. I ended up finally getting together with a girl who, I would later learn, had somewhat similar self-loathing issues, but she had no desire to improve herself. I put a lot of effort into trying to help her, but it went nowhere and left me feeling jaded and cynical. After finally ending that relationship after more that 4 years, I had a few other women show interest, but they really just wanted me to be their taxi. Nowadays I've largely shut off, I just work, play a bit of sport, and drink with friends. A colleague at work was trying to figure me out a couple of months ago and asked me why I don't have a partner, and I just looked at him like he was an alien. It has gotten to the point now, that I just don't see it ever happening, and I am looking for a way to make peace with living alone.
Sometimes I don't mind being a virgin but other days it gets to me and really gets me down, thinking I'm I not good enough it sucks but what can you do
This is where dating apps come into play. Just take some photos of yourself wearing nice clothes. Start with just practicing flirting with random people and work on from there. The great thing about dating apps is that if you are rejected you don’t know anyone who did reject you and sometimes people are receptive towards giving you advice if you say that you suck at it. It’s a good way to get experience. I highly recommend it as a tool to practice getting better. I’ve actually just made friends via dating apps so it’s a good way to be less lonely in general.
Virginity isn't some special thing and losing it won't change your life. Try not to hype it up to much. Lose it from your vocabulary. You've never had sex, ok so what. You probably don't remember the first time you did most of the activities you enjoy, and I doubt the first time was your favourite time. Sex is something 2 people do together so go find some people to spend time with. If it's the only thing you want to do, it's not going to happen.
@@eligoldman9200 honestly I think getting into dating apps is a horrible idea for someone in this position. Maybe it works in some cases but most people just become more nihilistic about dating after using them.
As a woman I honestly think the issue is people are just more terminally online than anything. Most people I meet these days don't have any real passions or hobbies. If it's just fortnite (I'm a gamer btw) then you're not going to be fun to be around. I'm in a relationship but my best friend has been single for a while and this has been her observation as well.
I personally think the reason being a male virgin over 18 is such a "problem" is the social stigma with male virginity. If the expectation for men (or just people) were to lose their virginity later in life like 25 or 30 instead of in their teens, less men would be so insecure about being virgins after 18. Being a virgin during young adulthood is really not a big deal and I don't think it's as much of a problem as people say it is. It only became a problem when having sex became a social status as opposed to something people do for fun or to form a connection or whatever. Had a guy friend who was 22 complain to me about still being a virgin, and almost none of his issues with it were about him feeling lonely or wanting a companion. It was almost all about how he feels like a "loser" because of it. His social life was just fine and he was fulfilled but he still felt like he "needed" to lose yis virginity. All of his insexuroties were a direct result of the pressure for men to be sexual and he wasn't even particularly lonely. If someone has a fulfiling social life, and their only "problem" was that they are still a virgin, they would not be miserable about it if it weren't for the societal pressure. The expectation to get laid in order to be considered not a loser is the real problem. If it weren't for that, maybe less men would feel the need to go to ridiculous lengths just to get someone to sleep with them. We need to take the value and pressure off sex is what I'm trying to say. It doesn't need to be such an issue.
I think it's less about the virginity itself so much as the maturity that it implies. Our grandparents got married at 18 and were pumping out kids while our generation is going to college and then the uncertainty of life after college makes dating in college difficult
A toxically masculine identity mandates that said man is virile, having lots of sex, and that if he’s not, then he’s a failure of a man. The problem is how precarious that toxically masculine identity is situated. Having to constantly prove your identity to others, or otherwise lose it, is a culture of DEEP emotional insecurity. Change the culture. Be a better man. Raise better men.
The expectations are one problem, but the lack of companionship is the larger issue that is entailed by virginity. I don't think humans for the most part live normal healthy lives without relationships romantic and platonic. It's kinda unreasonable to expect people to live without romantic relationships and kinda inhumane for most people.
@@axeman3357 Right? I mean, virgin is just a word. A silly word with religious underpinnings. It's the implied lack of relationships that seems to be the problem.
Chiming in with all the personal stories, I'd like to mention that I didn't have any kind of romantic or sexual contact with anyone until I was 21; I have horrible social anxiety, I'm autistic, and had some pretty deep-seated dislike for myself in general that made it impossible for me to imagine anyone being attracted to me. However, in recent years I've gradually become more proactive about making social connections, as well as managing my anxiety and not getting lost in endless self-critical narratives--all the things Vaush advocates for here--and in that time I've ended up in all kinds of romantic entanglements and generally become a lot happier. No magic solution, but the necessary work really does pay off guys.
28 here and only 5'6, it's too late for me at this age, i am virtually guaranteed to die alone and single over here in NZ unless i go to some dirt poor nation and find a partner over there. I also have social anxiety, i don't have any redeeming traits or qualities that women like such as good career, good height, social confidence, friends, status etc. It's so important to have those things over here and have your sh*t together! the reason you have become succesful is probably because you are tall or at least average height and possibly other things. Dating and relationships are extremely difficult for short men like me especially in this tiny country of 4 million people, our dating pool is extremely tiny, look at all the reserch and data! for example watch the 20/20 documentary on short men here on youtube, it is a huge disadvantage and Heightism is a very real thing in society especially when it comes to people taking you seriously, you are deemed as less of a man. Everytime i go outside i am literally invisible to women, everywhere i go i am constantly mogged by every single guy in public which absolutely messes and destroys my self esteem/confidence because i feel like a genetically inferior male. Lastly we as humans are still cave people with cave brains and are still driven primarily by instinct especially when it comes to women choosing partners, women will look for the top guy.
@@davidkennedy4339 While I do think that people can be shallow when it comes to height, it's not too late for you. There are many successful, attractive men who are short. Ceelo Green, Lil Wayne, Bruno Mars, Prince, Napoleon Bonaparte, Bob Dylan-all of those men are your height or shorter and they are incredible. I can agree with you on the "making friends is hard" part: I'm autistic and I got ADHD, which has given me social anxiety thanks to not being diagnosed until my later teens and early 20s (gotta love being AFAB and neurodivergent!) so I know VERY WELL how you feel. In that case, I'd recommend trying to find spaces IRL and online that cater to your interests-fandom is a really great place to start; it helps give you something to talk about and skip some of the small talk. Even if New Zealand is a tiny country, there is still someone there for you. And if they're not there, they may be somewhere else. To cling to hope is difficult, one of the most difficult things... but it is worth it. Trust me. You have so much of your life ahead of you! You're only 28! Holy shit my dude, you have DECADES to figure yourself out. You have DECADES to put yourself together. You're going to be okay. And if worse comes to worst, and nobody romantically loves you... you will be able to tolerate and then learn to love yourself. Try to tolerate yourself first-it's much more attainable than going right from self-hate to self-love. You're worth the effort it will take. You are. You just gotta tell yourself that.
@@taketheblackpillneo3940 dude my boyfriend is 5” shorter than me and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. Keep ur chin up, and try to just focus on bettering urself 💖
Why does everyone have such a problem talking about men's issues? I feel like MRAs have poisoned the well. Men have actual social problems as a gender. Such as this and circumcision. Nobody wants to talk about it. Weren't feminists the ones who were saying that feminism is for men too? Is the something in feminism that can address this and people just don't want to say it?
I know, its sad. I really care a lot about my male friends, but I get worried because they have barely any means to get help with mental health. But then, I don't want to have to do all of the emotional labor for them, so its difficult.
I think it’s because men tend to get afforded more privileges in modern society then other groups. So privileged groups’ problems are often ignored, and I’m pretty sure Marx wrote on the paradox where the rich’s problems get ignored. It’s the same for men (imo). It’s important to acknowledge problems in every group, but based on the social status of the group, the problems are prioritized differently, and I’m not sure whether that’s good or bad
@Damian Leo What about the disparity in men getting convicted in criminal court? What about the issues in family court? What about the violent crime more often inflicted on men, or that the suicide rate that is much higher? of course circumcision is an issue - why does no one believe men should have the right to bodily autonomy but it's so important for women? I'm all for sorting out women's issues, but even as a woman I can see issues men are facing.
On the top secret message at the end, my GF said one of the reasons she felt so comfortable around me before we started dating was that I didn’t treat her differently than the rest of our lab group, as such she was more open to hanging out further on after the semester had ended.
So do female ones, even if it's statistically not as much of an issue - social atomisation is affecting everybody. The average adult in the UK only has like 2 close friends. People in general are very lonely nowadays, are having like record lows of sexual partners, and more young people are virgins than ever. Men are overrepresented, but that doesn't mean social atomisation doesn't impact anyone else. Plus these are just statistics which speak to trends and populations, every individual has their own reasons for their personal situations that you can't put on a graph.
Honestly most of what Vaush says goes for women seeking men as well. Most straight sex involves one woman and one man, so it's not like straight women are having more sex than straight men overall (although it may well be that 18-29 women are having more sex than 18-29 men, because more sex happens between 18-29 women and 30+ men than the other way around). So sure, a straight woman with really lacking social skills/connections can "get laid" easier than a straight man in her situation, but chances are it will be with one of those "swipe right on everyone" f***boys, who is maybe superficially attractive but the actual sex is not very pleasurable on average. Her odds of finding a good partner go way up (although nothing is guaranteed) if she can level up her social skills and build a diverse social network. The corollary of a society in which a lot of men are socially isolated, though, is that the average woman doesn't know that many guys either (even if she has an OK social life otherwise). I think the statistics mask the fact that there are a lot of women who have had sex but have never had satisfying sex; if you've never had sex at all, you're not necessarily worse off than someone who has only ever had bad sex.
I dunno, my situation doesn't seem to stem from lack of friends or social skills, but the lack of situations where I'd meet men. I belong to a relatively big circle of female friends who've never dated anyone. Only place where you casually meet guys seems to be bars, but they are frankly a horrible place to find someone 'cause ppl are drunk.
@@cdr29qm Men who are at least moderately sexually active tend to have more unique partners. It's not useful to just say the two sexes have the same amount, because that's so over-aggreggated that it misses the harsh reality that the DISTRIBUTION of unique partners is wider on the male side. Lots of guys having multiple female partners, a lot of females having sex with the same men. It's mostly to do with social proof. Women learn who is good in bed from their friends talking about their sex lives. So when they hook up, they tend to hook up and date men that are dating their friends. Guys are usually expected to "hunt" for their mates, so they cast wider nets and sleep with women from several of their social circles, whereas women tend to flirt and start dating guys from the social circle they are closest to. Then when you consider that men tend to value physical attraction, and women tend to value social success (confidence, # of friends a guy has, his way of "carrying himself"), it tends to be the case that women will not date men who they consider "below" them in various metrics of wealth or success. A male CEO would bang a hot waitress or hairstylist, but a waitress or stylist will not consider dating the lowliest blue-collar customers they serve unless they have absolutely no other options.
People in general don't have friends or social support anymore. Anecdotally People with significant others usually have no other friends outside of their relationship. Worse for single men because they're less likely to have even friends; they're more likely to get radicalized. Socializing is expensive, social groups and gathering places outside of work and school have been decimated, people have to work 60 hr a week to pay bills. Ppl socialize online because it's the most affordable and time efficient way to do it. I think I'm very lucky that I have 3 friends, that isn't normal for adults anymore.
I'm a virgin in my twenties but I'm kinda okay with it. There's a lot life has to offer. I also have this feeling that I should get my life truly in order before having the right to share it so intimately with someone else. I'll get there, eventually :)
I do think it's a good mindset but also, and comments here kinda prove that, it could lead to this "I'm not good enough to be in a relationship" mentality? It's probably not the case for you and I admire you for trying to better yourself, but just anything in excess could be bad :)
@@ulapado9785 True, that could be a pitfall. It's not that I'd back off if a relationship formed naturally, it's just that there are others aspects of life I'm focusing on for the moment so I'm okay with not actively/desperately looking for a relationship. I'm at peace with my situation and I guess that's the most important thing in the end :)
In short - 'Go outside, interact with people' - that's it, social problem solved, statistics getting better... Ok, serously, he basicaly admited that he have no solution, cuz his advice is equal to that famous 'Go outside have fun'-advaice for people with depression. It doesn't works like that. Most people with such problem probably heard such advices and they probably would like to interact with people in healthy way, but here is the problem - they are unable to.
Funny I remember going to a lot of social events and actually being completely completely shunned no matter what I did. Nobody wanted to talk to me neither men nor women. I really don't know why but hey I can totally see how a minigolf tournament could turn into the most horrible anxiety generating experience ever where I leave half way through because everyone is avoiding me.
Omg yes I couldn’t relate to a random stranger online more Im often quirky also a teenager so being loud and extroverted is heavily shunned upon since yknow everyone is chill and introverted im not saying im different from any teen but I feel embarrassed when I yell too loud at an event at school well maybe not now since the pandemic but especially my age being yourself is kinda difficult no matter how hard I want to be myself I shove myself in this box I just look for my close friends so I wont have to meet anyone new just so I can stay content This may not be quite like yours but its sort of difficult to do any in person social event without any glares
Ive seen a lot of posts in the subreddit dunking on incels, and anytime someone comments "this is a legitimate problem", they get called an incel and get downvoted to hell. It's really a relief to know Vaush himself still cares about this stuff, even if the sub doesn't.
@@DT-bp2om But can you see why there's hostility to incels on the left? I can only stand so much "women are whores" "women are holes" "holes deserve no rights" "society should force holes into becoming slaves for men", etc. bullshit without losing all trust in males as a species.
@@sugarysweet07 funny because there are women spaces doing exactly that to men but they are praised for being “strong” and never receive real criticism
@@sugarysweet07 I see them getting loads of likes and upvotes on Twitter and Reddit making generalizations about men all the time. Meanwhile I never see incels getting top posts unless it’s someone making fun of them. Not even just that,I see them getting awards and shit literally just because they are women
I really like that Vaush discussed this subject without going into the “all women are catty floozies who only want chads” uncle direction. I’ve been anxious about listening or researching this subject because I wanted to distance myself from incel logic/forums but I’m glad he did it in a really nuanced manner. Well done
