My biggest issue is how in an attempt to make the female characters more likeable the writers have taken away their agency. That backfired horribly. So when a councilor scolds Rhaenyra for inaction and taking a very damgerous trip to Kings Landing - the showrunners scream at us that she is right and the councilor is being patronizing, but the audience still sides with him. Because common sense says he is right. S2 Rhaenyra is indecisive and way too passive. S2 Alicent gets her entire character arc undone with a complete deviation from the book (why??) And Daemon gets a made up, boring arc of "will he/won't he betray" only for it to end after a 1 minute vision of a show we do not wish to rewatch (-cough- S8 -cough-)
It's kind of funny how shows take decisions sometimes in order to appear more "feminist" when in reality, they end up ruining the intellectual property. The same happened with Katara in the Netflix adaptation of Avatar: The Legend of Aang. They tried to make Rhaenyra and Alicent morally righteous or more "likeable", when what was interesting about Rhaenyra is how she's seen as cruel and evil, when her brother is arguably worse than her, yet the Greens treat him with kids gloves. Or how Alicent was stuck in a losing battle and had to bare her claws to survive and carry her faction to victory.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ it happened to Sokka too. One of his very important character arc was slowly realizing that sexism is wrong and treats women as equals. The show runners gutted this because they wanted to be "politically correct" so Sokka was already "good" from the start, thus shutting down any room for development already.
What is funny is that they've made Alicent far more reprehensible. She is absolutely complicit in starting the war, she also raised her kids to hate Rhaenyra in the first place. The second she doesn't get to rule, she decides she'd rather betray her kids to death.
I absolutely despise the fact that the show is trying to sell some sort of good vs evil thing when they should've been grey morality - what really defines Martin's story. What's the point of making Rhaenyra so angelic peaceful? What's the point of making Aegon a psychotic asshole? And then we have Martin complaining about silly things like "oh, but there was no dragon on the Valle, that doesn't make any sense" damn, they're butchering your central thematics and you're complaining about that?
That was the most vague thing he could complain about without getting into problems at HBO but he did also complain about the Blood and Cheese thing calling Maelor 'the Missing' thing out.
They're two different things. She had to use the peasants because anyone with Targaryen blood will be mostly bastards, and most if not all of said bastards will be coming from the lower runs of society. They're also all there by choice, no one was obligated. It was all carrot, no stick. They knew it was dangerous but decided to take the gamble. No one has a choice when war breaks out however. You ARE obligated in one way or another. The killing is indiscriminate and far reaching. Plus there's ideals vs pragmatism. If you're going to enter a war then you're going to have to do things that you normally wouldn't, otherwise you'll lose.
I think it is very intentional that she is a hypocrite, I think that’s the very core of her character actually. She constantly says she doesn’t want unnecessary death yet she continues to fight for the throne which leads to war and death. Not to mention her sacrificing people to gain dragon riders. I think her arc is a very complementary to Alicent, who has accepted she is a hypocrite and just wants to get tf out of all it.
I hated how No one wants a war in a Show about a CIVIL WAR! Imagine Robb Stark spending an entire season talking about he wants to stop a war after Ned got his head cut off
The promotional material "blacks vs green" implied that this season would be a fair accounting of a civil war where both have legitimate reasons and personel you could root for or despise. However in an attempt to make one side (the blacks) more likeable and the other less so they have shaved away the characters that we enjoyed for good or ill. Rhaenyra does not care about the small folk. She has lived her life with a disregard for virtually every law/custom that a highborn lady must follow. That is her charm. The idea that shed be dilly dallying over the small folk is preposterous. A blackwood and bracken killed each other for her hand in marriage and she didnt bat an eyelid. Shes the blood of the dragon. Conflict should be with her advisors who are regular degular people advising her NOT to just go all out. Damon is a wildcard. That is his charm. He is fighting for his brother's throne. Not for rhaenyras. Him being 100% anti-green yet not 100% for rhaenyras queenship was a conflict that need never be resolved or at least not in a season long dream sequence (i actually quite liked the dream stuff but shouldve been 2 eps max) Also doubling down on the prophecy stuff when we know its not how things come to pass is annoying. Coupled by the fact the passing of knowledge to the heir in universe is bullshit because maegor the cruel was never the intended heir. The Valareyon family's life has been ruined by rhaenyra. They believe she and her husband killed their son. Damon killed corlys brother. And then rhaenys dies and there is not a peep out of corlys. His family line is gone and some bastards are about to take his family seat as a reward for giving up everything and hes just fine with it. This is not how people act. untapped potential. Aegon trying to a good king despite being shit and easily manipulated is some of the series best stuff. This is the sort of character work i like to see. Is he a "good" guy? No but he has the most believeable reaction to his childs murder, he takes action and has intentions for both his people and his enemies regardless of whether he can fulfil them. Aemond being comically evil makes no sense. He did not mean to kill lucerys. A plot point nerve mined to its full extent. Of all the greens, he was the most prepared for the war. Both physically and mentally. From when they took his eye and did nothing and he took the dragon. He knew what was up. I loved the idea of him and christan cole devising their own plan to prosecute the war. This shouldve been his chief dispute with the greens how best to prosecute the war. Having burned aegon much of what he says actually no longer makes sense. He accuses layrs strong of being disloyal to his own family for burning them alive. Despite doing the exact same thing. He burns Aegon the only active dragonrider combatant for the greens but still talks about doing it for the family. He wants helena to join the fray in desperation, but threatening to kill your family to save the family makes no sense. Christan cole seeing dragon fire and aemond friendly fire his brother and being shooketh was a good arc. Especially being generally confident up until aegon was flamed. Sending the twin to his death was petty and unintentionally comical though not in a negative way. Alicent. Alicent. Alicent. I threw away my green card after that finale. That surrender was one of the most despicable things ive seen in the game of thrones franchise. I was incredulous. All throughout the seaon were being told by the show "look at how misogynistic they are, not letting her rule" when aemond (or someone else) said you do not have a stomach for war/what needs to be done, THEY WERE ACTUALLY RIGHT. it comes across as well they didnt make me queen so im gonna sell them out. She sold her children out. Her family. Probably the whole hightower family would get demoted/decapitated if they were to lose. We know for a fact damon would kill any of viserys children to stop a claim.. the idea you could eveb go to treat with anyone who had someone hack off your grandchild's head is insanity.
Rhaenyra this season went from Maegor with TEATS to a flat chested King Aenys. I was so looking forward to how far she would go to get her vengeance and her crown and the show neutered her into oblivion.
I really hope Rhaenyra's crimes against the small folks will be why Hugh turn his back on her in Season 3. I love Emma as Rhaenyra but we cannot have a perfect Mary Sue in the universe of Game of thrones, it's just not why people are drawn to it.
it felt like a mid season ending rather than a season finale, if they wanted to lay the foundations then they could have spent more time developing the new dragon riders, the tension and relationships, seems like they were talking about WAR WAR WAR only for us to not even see it, they chose the wrong thing to prioritise this season
I think people don't consider the budgetary side of it all. The decision to cut down the season was the network's, and Condal has even gone on record saying that with the resources they had left for this season, they wouldn't have been able to do the next battle the way they wanted. I think they did what was best with what they had.
@@failureoncommand I know but I do feel it’s their job to work within the budget in pre production, they are the professionals so a solution could be remedied by them, that’s where creativity is honed, just seems it’s almost universal that this season was a miss in terms of pay off, I still enjoyed it but to anyone asking if they should start the show can’t recommend them starting now then waiting till possibly 2026 for the resolution, the wait will be brutal lol
Genuine question: what do you feel was butchered about her character? I really dont see it except *SPOILERS* when she asks Rhaenyra to come with her. That was too far to make any sense; they're childhood friends but I don't believe after what has gone on she could still want or believe that something like that is feasible. Seemed to just be feeding into the whole forbidden love angle of the characters that the showrunners are running with.
@@failureoncommand for me it's because it just doesn't make any sense. I would be okay with this scene if Alicent had ANY reason to believe that it would make things better, but her giving Rhaenyra Kings Landing wouldn't stop the war or stop the bloodshed. Aemond and Vhagar can literally plow through entire cities and the Hightowers with Daeron are marching out from Oldtown. Alicent spent the whole season coming to the realisation that she failed as a mother and as a queen, and her family (and the entire kingdom) is suffering for it so she decides to sentence her entire family to death (except Heleana and Jaeheara)??
@@wiktoriagrochola3256 You're making sense, but the way I see it is that (as I replied to you in another comment), Alicent knows that doing this will be a great advantage to the Blacks, and it will bring things to a head and that much closer to a conclusion. Taking the seat of power and defeating the king could bring a lot of the lords of the seven kingdom to heel. However, I do believe that regardless of the actual result of this decision, Alicent didn't really do this for the good of the realm. She did it for herself, out of selfishness, so that she could find peace. She realized her failures, and I think kind of gave up instead of taking any positive developmental action, realizing she had in fact misunderstood Viserys' will and opting to just remove herself from the situation entirely and fleeing. It's a weak and pitiful result, but not one that I think is illogical.
Man, she accepted that Rhaenyra would kill Aegon, that deviates from her protecting her children all the time back in season 1. They made her have coocoo brains too, because if Aegon has to die due to his claim so should Aemond and Daeron. She also sold Cole and Gwayne's destination to get jumped too. But she just want to run away with her daughter right?@@failureoncommand
@@failureoncommandthe problem is she let Rhaenyra win because she loves her and thinks she should have been crowned. It wasn't an act of desperation, because Alicent let Rhaenyra go in the sept when the greens had an advantage and her grandson was literally killed in his bed. She just loves her, that's the point the writers are making and they don't hide it in the interviews. Alicent had great development till 1x7 but in episode 8 she suddenly stopped fearing for her kids ( and this was her main motivation, we established it when Otto left her in episode 5. And her actions in episodes 6-7 were all about fighting for her kids), she sincerely (!) said that Rhaenyra will make a fine queen and her motivation was replaced with an illusion, which automatically undermined the whole reasoning the greens had for taking the throne. Mind you, at this point Alicent and Rhaenyra didn't speak properly for 20 years, Rhaenyra on purpose made it seem like she killed her husband, Daemon killed Vaemond, even though he should have taken only his tongue. Literally zero explanation why Alicent gave up, except "oh, she felt lonely during those years". The whole season 2 was about her hating her sons because the writers wanted to push an idea that she betrayed Rhaenyra and feels bad for it. That she is actually team black and got into team green by mistake. Alicent now doesn’t understand that by inheritance, all THREE of her sons will be considered Rhaenyra’s competitors and will be executed. That her father, lover and brother will also be executed.That Daemon will achieve this. Not even her granddaughter is safe either, since she is Aegon’s only child and his heir. The writers made a complete fool of her, made her Rhaenyra's simp.They just made it up that Alicent and Rhaenyra had lesbian feelings for each other ( which was change fine at first), and now they break everything so that this “divorced couple who still loves each other” (this quote from the director) would sacrifice their children for each other. Just some fanfiction of a 13 year old girl about lesbians.
The real issue to me is the time between seasons. At first, it was said the season was cut short to get the next out quicker. Now we're being told it was the budget, and it'll be another two years. If the next season was set for next summer, i feel like people would be more forgiving
I don't want "battles", I want impactful moments. The battle in episode 4 was great to watch, but what made the episode impactful was the death of Rhaenys and crippling of Aegon, much more than the action scenes. That's the kind of payoff you want in a finale too. In the previous season we didn't get a battle either in the last episodes, but the slaying of Luke was a very impactful moment to end the season on. Similarly, think about how many seasons of original GoT ended. Season 4 had the death of Tywin. Season 1 the death of Ned and the hatching of the dragons. No battles, but still great finales due to payoffs that are huge to the story.
Though it lacked direct action, Alicent's decision to *SPOILERS* practically give up was an impactful moment. She decided to prioritize herself and her own peace of mind (and Halaena's, but that felt more minor) in exchange for her own son's life. She offered Rhaenyra King's Landing on a silver platter. It's not balls-to-the-wall impactful, but it is on a psychological, character level.
@@failureoncommand I think this could have been an impactful moment if we had actually seen this betrayal take place, instead of just her planning it. In fact, it would be much more shocking if we as viewers didn't even know Alicent was planning it and only realize she was as it happens. This is like replacing the Red Wedding with a just a scene of Walder Frey and Roose Bolton planning it.
@@failureoncommand it just doesn't make any sense. If Alicent wants to leave with Heleana, she can do that without sentencing Aegon, Aemond, Gwayne, Otto, Criston and Daeron to certain death. Giving Rhaenyra Kings Landing would not stop the war, Aemond and the Hightowers wouldn't just drop to their knees.
@@wiktoriagrochola3256 but it would give the Blacks a PR edge and more "official" support, and would be a step closer to the end. But maybe you're right; they could have left without taking this step first.
You were fine with Rhaenyra and Alicent conversation? Seriously? It's the most demented thing ever. It makes no sense for Alicent to betray her children and everything she stands for...and then she even ask Rhaenira if she wanted to go with her!!! The show lost all credibility with this nonsense
It made perfect sense. Bc all her life she just did what she was told, she adhered to the rules and that was why she and rhaenera stopped being friends in the first place. But what did it get her? She fought for her kids only to realize, she basically denied rhaenera her rightful place as heir or viserys based on her being a woman. And then she is surprised, that she (a woman) now has nothing to say in the council. She had kind of a breakdown where she realized being a pushover „i do what i am told“ is actually NOT her personality, since she enjoyed her time ruling. She is also scared for her kids, she has more than just aegon. And i think, while a difficult choice, it made sense for her character to give up aegon and the throne (that she actually never wanted she just hot caught up in the game) to safe the rest of her family. Especially her daughter, who she clearly loves the most. She regrets the way she raised her sons, as hateful, entitled, jealous boys, who want rhaenyras crown. I think her character development actually makes THE most sense, i feel like alot of people that don‘t like it just don‘t understand that this is a very typical experience for women. Being a pick me in hopes of achieving greatness yourself if you push other women under the table and them realizing, no misogyny actually affects me too, no matter what.
@@Vivi-mp9nnShe won’t be saving anything and the killing wouldn’t stop with Aegon. Alicent planted the seeds for Viserys because she thought it was his wish. You could go as far to say that it was understandable, but as soon as she learned she was wrong, she immediately thought to leave everything behind, putting to the sword her lover, brother, father, and most importantly her boys, after years and years of neglecting, manipulating and misguiding them to become troubled/cruel rulers. Helaena is conflicted and doesn’t always accept her support, Aemond absolutely hates her and took things to his favor, and Aegon was the most vulnerable and needy as he was the only one to actively seek his mother’s love and admiration. It’s too late to label this as a “typical women experience” excuse, this is already the aftermath of her selfish endeavors. This only proves that she’s despicable, and too cowardly to maintain the responsibility of which she caused so much trouble and suffering to both her family and Rhaenyra’s. She’s fine with Aegon and Aemond getting slaughtered, so long as she gets to live out her days in peace, confident that she gets to sleep at night after all the chaos she wrought onto her own children. If this is meant to make sense then they’ve done a wonderful job in making her the most hatable character.
@@ojroche5217 „typical woman experience“ meaning just the „doing what u are told“ part not the rest. Yes i don‘t think she‘s a good person, i agree with ur assessment, i think it’s good character development. All these things were there from the start. She was always selfish and rule obsessed. Her trying to undo the war bc she realized viserys actually DIDNT tell her aegon should be king is a valid interpretation. I personally felt like it was the opposite, her finally not doing what she (thought she) was told but her doing what would make her happy. Sacrificing her son for this and all the other mistakes she made. Does is make her a bad mother? Yes. We‘ve never seen her for any second being a good mother. I think she is supposed to be moraly gray, not hateable. I think u hate her so much bc being a bad mom is the worst a woman can be. I don‘t hate her infact i like her more than in the first season. I judge all her decisions but i do understand. So you not liking her anymore =/= bad character writing
@@Vivi-mp9nn I'm sorry but if you don't think Alicent plotting to kill her own kids is character assassination you are too far gone with letting the showwriters feed you slop.
"But is the season really all that bad?" Well, yeah. A large segment of the viewers think it was bad, that's how it works. It's like they're doing an over correction of GoT. The rushed and slap dash way they handled the last two seasons of that managed to render what was a cultural phenomenon into irrelevancy. Now they're trying to stretch out so much that it leaves a very thin season. I hear you that reading the book prepared you better for how the show is turning out, but the vast majority of the audience won't ever read it, and the fact that it might be following the story closely will be irrelevant to them.
And one of the main criticisms from book readers is that the show has not been following the books properly. Very few of the characters feel like their book counterparts. Heck a lot of characters don't feel like their S1 versions.
Irrevelancy is a really big stretch cosniderng this show got even more people watching than S1 in watcher numbers that even exceeded GOT in some areas. This season deserves some of the flack, but it aint going anywhere at all anytime soon.
@@unc54 I dont really get that complaint. I don't have a problem with that as much as I would with other series because this isn't really based off a "book" the way GoT was. Its more like it's deviating from a chapter of a book. There isn't the specificity that you get from novels. Plus it's based off a fictional history book that is intended to be read as if it's an unreliable narrator. There isn't much about the queens specifically, and it's written more as a general explanation than a faithful telling of a story.
@@timwhite5562 Ah I see, yeah, HOTD basically saved ASOIAF from irrelevancy, and the only it can ruin it is by ending the show with another bad show finale. The current finale is only mid season, so it’s more of a hiccup than a flatline, and not really bad by common opinion, as many people actually liked the episode itself, but just disappointing as hell that’s where it ends, so it doesn’t kill the show, but it does put it in question now, so please for the love of God HBO give S3 more than 8 episodes I beg you.
@@Male_FicentI feel like it's definitely better than seasons 5-8 of GoT, people simply don't remember how many issues there were. I'd put it as worse than Seasons 1-4 but better than 5-8.
I disagree with you, this season was shit. You can say visuals and set design were excellent but story and pacing was god-awful. My biggest problem is with the washing of all female characters as you mentioned. No way Rhaenyra was looking for peace the whole season after they murdered her son, and similarly Alicent and Helaena will be resentful after what happened to her son. There is no bad or villainous female character on both sides. Writers tried to make them all so sympathetic and their actions are either because they are making a sacrifice for the greater good or men around them are forcing their hand. On the other side there is cartoonish insecure villain Aemond with a small ding dong who has daddy, mommy and I don't know how many other issues who just want to burn innocent.
But hey remember, "Aemond simply lost control of Vhagar so get over it Season 2 will dwell more on this" says some defenders of "losing control of the dragon "crowd at the end of Season 1. Season 2: Not one thing was established or written about losing control. Aemond took the blame off screen, and his "dominance" over Vhagar because Females don't respect Beta Boy so he had to be an Alpha Man basically.
People also love to say that Aemond is evil now but can never defend that position. He took out two enemy dragon riders and is now attacking enemy strongholds? Hes fighting a war he did not start. His actions have been perfectly reasonable. His biggest mistake was taking out his only allied dragon rider, and not attacking enemy strongholds even sooner. "Oh no! He increased security at the docks!" We just saw the enemy carry out TWO successful plots using boats in his Capital City.
The book is written like it’s a retelling of events so the reader thinks this is not a 100% accurate retelling. This style benefits the show because it gives the show more room to do different things with the characters. I still feel like the fates of the characters needs to remain the same however. Even with this vague recount storytelling from the book, Alicent Hightower would never have gone to dragonstone to concede to Rhaenyra and let her kill her son.
She is loyal to her families cause to the end..and the style of Fire and Blood would have benefited the show if they’d stayed closer to what the reader would have imagined while reading it, but they have taken advantage of the “unreliable sources” aspect of the book and are choosing to tell a completely different story..
@@senister14its crazy, i reread Fire and Blood (Dance Chapters) leading up to and during the Season several times..just for the show adaptation to be barely recognizable😢
Battles occurring offscreen is what really annoyed me the most or hearing about things going on from another character. The Battle of the Burning Mill and The Sacking of Duskendale we only see the aftermath of and we don't get to see any of Willem Blackwood's war crimes in the Riverlands, not even the aftermath of it.
Aemond and aegon for me carried this season. Not just performance of the actors coz they really stole the show every scene they were in, but all the amazing drama and charater arcs and what not has been coming from them. Without them it would be so bland. Team black or team green, you have to admit that blacks are mostly boring
Season 1-6 of GOT was so successful because it perfectly balanced the story and the action. Seasons 7-8 essentially gave up on the story and focused solely on action which is why it was such a let down. HOD season 2 took the complete opposite approach and focused entirely on the story, not even the story itself but prolonging the story for little purpose aside from wanting to fill episodes with no actual substance. Essentially HOD season 2 was a plate full of vegetables and 1 small piece of actual meat.
@@senister14 I agree that there's favortism for team black I even made a video where I addressed this lol. Season 2 has flaws, but Game of Thrones Seasons 5 and 6 consistently had poorly written scenes. People remember Season 6 as a good season because of its highs but even those have issues.
@TrinasRune-u3m i disagree, season 5 at least had a different plot line that helped to move the story, besides the battle of Rooks Rest which was written terribly there were other breakout scenes. I'm worried season 3 of House of dragon is just going to be the same problems as season 6 of GOT, where yes I liked watching the battles, but the story felt less intense and more just like walking through a mall instead of a haunted house like seasons 1-5.
Rhaenyra is way more unlikable in this season for me, compared to the first season. Other than the throne being her claim, I don't really understand what makes her someone to root for. I don't like Aemond but that doesn't make me cheer for Rhaenyra.
It goes to show that a multimillion dollar budget and all the cgi in the world cant replace a good story and writing. It's not even the pace or lack of action that's got me turned off. It's the character assassination and brain dead writing. There's something really off about this season, the dialogue, editing, writing, I can't really pinpoint exactly.
I don’t mind if a season has only 8 one-hour long episodes. But the least you could do is not drag storylines along and spend too much time on characters sulking.
I just hated how the show is playing favorites, and making the show black and white when it should be grey. Im Team Aemond but theyre kind of ruining him by making him one dimensional and boring.
I enjoyed the show and the finale. Also, blame HBO for cutting 2 episodes out without giving the writers and showrunners time to make necessary changes without a 2 year delay of the season. It's an excellent show with outstanding acting.
The problem with the show is that the Blacks are much less interesting to follow than the Greens. The first half when most of the attention was focused on the Greens was great. Then the second half focused almost soley on the Blacks and that's when it went downhill. Decent - Good season overall but the second half really hurt it.
In episode one it looked like Rhaenyra has snapped. We’d already seen her try a steady hand and she lost a son for it. I was expecting her to go full fire and blood and lose it a little. Then she basically just recovered? On top of that, season one was the more political season and everyone loved it. I think the issue angering everyone is that this season was built up to be the beginning of a major war and we got precious little of that. Skipping action scenes to focus on character development was a poor choice, not in the sense that we don’t want character development, but in the sense that showing us the aftermath of the battles and burnings steals the pay off and avoids the character development that happens during these crisis points. I’m still mad they didn’t just give us the extra 4 minutes to see Rhaena take Sheepstealer. Like really? In the finale of all episodes you won’t show us that major character moment. It was just inconsistent with when and where they chose to develop characters.
They made every character worse. Seems like a complete misunderstanding of who the characters are. The writers said the main theme of the show/books is the love story between Rhaenyra and Alicent...like what the hell are they on about? I like battles, dragon fights etc, but it wouldn't be the main reason I watch the show. They just seem to have made completely dumb changes. Some relationships are completely different than the books and some characters are completely changed or written out so they can focus on other things like lesbian Rhaenyra, Daemon doing nothing, Criston Cole simping or making it completely one sided that the Blacks are the good guys etc. Even classic moments like Blood and Cheese were just made completely underwhelming.
The season could've really used another two episodes. Instead we got the same things repeating over and over again. The season ended just like the first one, with people preparing for war. I mean yeah cool we get to see how the characters developed but at the same time getting character assassinated. Episode was a good episode but a bad finale. Felt like a trailer.
I don't think it felt like a trailer, in so much as the ending of any series that sets up another season can feel like a trailer. All the pieces are on the board now, and the stakes are higher than ever. Not enough progress was made, but relative to the 4 season scheme of things, things seem to be progressing acceptably.
I kinda liked this season, but to be fair its mainly cus of team green, i never really liked Rheanyra (especially this season) and the only thing likeable about team black was daemon but he was kind of a dissapointment this season. And the pacing did bother me a little, but there were some great moments so i wouldnt call it a horrible season, and i do feel like season 3 will be better and with more action so im excited for that:) great video btw u made some good points👍
Episode 6 dragged and I didn’t like the final meeting with Rhaenyra and Alicent but I didn’t mind the slower pace overall. A lot of the supporting characters could have used some more screen time though (Jeyne Arryn, Cregan Stark being the obvious examples)
I liked this episode, was SO good. But, it would have been an amazing pre final episode, instead of the last of the season. I really liked your analysis. Thank you.
With Rhaenyra i think they could have expanded on what she says in the very first episode that the only thing that could take down the House of the Dragon was itself and the quasi sacred status of dragons for her reluctance. Because they made her a massive hypocrite by claiming she is keen to save lives but then literally leaving smallfolk (her own kin mind you) literally to burn to death. And i don’t think that was the writers intention.
The problem is, for a show about an internal civil war, there isnt much war. Game of thrones was a show about politics and climate change. So it being void of war for a while was fine, the audience expectations were met until it became a fantasy epic and stopped being based on the politics and intrigue. It lost its way when it lost its identity. House of the Dragon is a show about a war and it forgot about the war, the first season set up the war, the second season, set up the war again? None sense
Believe that they spent so much time with Daemon with the Heronhall witch because they are setting him up to be the White Walker king since his endiing in the book is ambiguous and vague and will tie-in to Game Of Thrones.
Writing decisions are made only in order not to repeat the source material and compete with the author of the book in the ability to write characters and stories. Only they are noticeably losing and I now understand exactly why George was so disappointed and refused to participate in writing the third season. Writers make changes without thinking why the plot was written this way in the first place in the book. They also lose cause-consequences relation and motivations of the charachers, while doing it. But to be fair, I'm asking too much from this show-because I would remark that the characters are not consistent with the SHOW canon either. For example: They made Alicent and Rhaenyra hate each other for 20 years (just like in the book) but suddenly both of them want peace? Both of them don't care about the deaths of their son&grandson? Really? Then why didn't they try to make peace BEFORE everything got worse? Previously, way smaller things made them ignore each other for years but now they don't care about safety or their children. Alicent for 10 years was holding a grudge because her father got fired but here we are - nobody cares for Jaehaerys! Apparently, Rhaenyra even forgot that Luke was avenged ! She wants another son! Brilliant! ( By the way, the writers already confirmed that the sept reunion was a fanservice,I suspect this meeting is too. Very bad the show was ready to sacrifice all the logic just to please fans) Daemon's arc was long but made sense. But all his development went down because after all these visions he made the decision to support Rhaenyra only ....because of the prophecy. Rhaena's arc was dragging down the pacing without any pay off. But it was only stupid and boring Even Aemond&Helaena small scene ruined Helaena's characher and broke the lore - from what point did she start to understand her prophecies soo clearly ? Why did she want to run away with Alicent 5 minutes ago if she saw everyone's fate already? Doesn't she care for her family ? Because it looked like she wants to use her powers only for herself.And how long have dreamers been astrally moving into other people's heads? I really don't want to discuss this episode much and I can't. The only scenes I like were with Cole, Gwayne , Ulf, and Tyland. And I know the reason why: the secondary characters have a superficial description and little screen time, so it's impossible to screw it up. By in the mix with good acting (and it must be admitted that almost all of the actors in the show are excellent) it gives these characters advantages of being interestingly and consistently written. Also, note that all those listed characters are all male, which means they are allowed to have flaws in this show. Yes, that's right, for some reason "women don't want blood, they are all peaceful" narrative is repeated over and over again. It made them all bland and illogical.Even Alys, as other women in this season, is just another smallfolk champion because "women want peace, men are violent". Seriously, why can't women be just people? You know, have flaws, desires and bad habits? The only main character that got fair treatment turned out to be Aegon, and I suspect that happened thanks to incredible work of the actor Tom Glynn-Carney. Because other charachers just don't make sense, so he must be an exception. I mean, deaths don't have any affect on charachers, previous motivations were forgotten or replaced with prophecy stuff. This season feels like a huge filler because nothing has consequences and weight, we see the same scenes over again, and the show refuses to show both sides of the story equally bad. I don't know if season 3 , even with incredible writers and help of GRRM, will be able get out of this hole. I think the damage have been made and it is useless to hope that the story will become better, only if not on the condition that they ignore season 2 almost completely. This episode deserves 2/10 just because of the colossal damage they did to the whole story& message by ruining Alicent and how they handled Daemon& Rhaena's arcs.The season as a whole 5,-8 or 6/10 .
See, my problem with the “we don’t need to see combat in a story about civil war” argument just feels silly to me. We can have both great character introspection AND battles in a section of the overall GOT lore about war. Otherwise, why cock tease us about war if you’re not going to show us
Things happening off screen is lame. If the entirety of the show had off screen action it would not be as popular as it once was. You have every right to enjoy the great acting, however plenty of people want more to stay invested. Pacing shouldn't slow down to the point of nearly nothing happening for an entire season.
I might be wrong but weren't most GoT season finales underwhelming? It was usually the penultimate episode that was exciting. I see the penultimate episode as the finale with the last episode as the end credits. S1 of HotD ended with a great cliffhanger, I think most people were just hoping for the same. GoT teased winter is coming for 7 seasons. HotD has teased for war for only 1+ season. I too liked this season. A lot has happened in the middle episodes compared to most (if not all shows) wherein major plot points only happen at the end.
This sums up some aspects of my perspective on the pace that I didn't communicate in the video. This year has been the year of build-up. The Bear S03 went no where. The Boys S04 barely moved. And now with HotD, there was also some progression issues. But compared to the other two, I think this one did it best. For me at least, it didn't feel manufactured or forced, and we still got a lot of mid-season stuff that pushed the ball forward. It feels like people forget that this war is already going, with Rook's Rest being a testament to casualties on both sides.
GoT often had a massively impactful penultimate episode, and a last episode dealing with the fallout, but there usually were major events happening in the last episode still. Like how season 1 ended on Dany's dragon's hatching, and season 4 with Tywin's death.
This is a pretty good video. i get where you're coming from and agree with some of this but I'm pretty sure Rhaenyra will stay interesting going forward even if they mis stepped with her this season a bit. Also I see where they're going with her which I explain below: SPOILERS: Since Aegon was shown to escape with Larys despite Alicent promising his head, we're going to keep seeing conflict between Rhaenyra and Alicent. First off Rhaenyra will claim King's Landing angrily after Jace dies, and then find out Aegon is missing. Then if Otto has been imprisoned by Larys (?) and sent to King's Landing, Rhaenyra will definitely execute Otto against Alicent's wishes. I'm also not a huge fan of making Rhaenyra's main motivation the song of ice and fire but I don't think it'll stay that way.
Rhae was completely ruined this season but alicent kept catfishing me character wise . She was a active character last season who did things to move the plot. This season alicent sits around with a suprised expression reacting to everything that happens to her. It felt like she was a disney character.
I’ve been saying this. I don’t actually even like action. I don’t want to see dragons destroyed. GOT was a brilliant story with complex characters. I think the error was trying to fast forward and skip the details. We needed zoom ins earlier. Everything they skipped actually was the problem. But the biggest problem is changing characters particularly Daemon and Rhaes relationship
Season 2 of HotD was Season 7 of GoT levels of writing. Rhaenyra and Alicent visiting each other back and forth is basically like Daenarys flying to the north saving Jon all over again. How did you not have a problem with their conversations? They made Alicent actually suggest that Rhaenyra should leave with her, so they could live together in exile lmao These were probably the corniest, tropiest and weirdest written pieces of dialogue in the entire show.
Bro I don't know what season you were watching but Rhaenyra is a fucking madman! She ordered blood and cheese (inadvertently) starved the smallfolk, gave them aid pretending to be caring (which caused riots) led the dragon seeds to be eaten by a dragon without even a hint of how to tame one and when alicent begged her to let her family live she doubled down that they were all going to die! She's 100% the bad guy! And I disagree about the battle scenes, we need more battle scenes! We should've gotten a lot more of the burning mill, it didn't need to be a whole episode but at least a few more scenes.
I’ve heard almost nobody say they wanted battles tbh, everything I’ve seen is people mad at bad dialogue and terrible character development or character regression (Daemon especially who they literally had accept not being king in S1 and even want to stay in Essos into another usurper)
We watch for the character drama not the battles, I don't know why folks are complaining so much, we got that, I actually skip the battles, I like seeing the dragons do their thing though, they are a bit fascinating:)
They tried to paint alicent as a bad person by showing her sleeping with criston Cole, but alicent is a widow, her husband is dead,she has every right to start seeing a new man.
I think Rhaneara’s reticence and doubt makes sense. It’s one thing to have an opinion of what others leaders should do, but entirely another to actually hold the responsibility that comes with leading. Her arc, though tiresome, made sense to me.
Martin's says that there's always some writer's who think they can do better than what the original guy came up with and they can inject their own opinions in the story but they usually end up making the story worse 99% times. This has happened to House of the Dragon which is ironic because this just happened in GOT. They should have learnt their lessons by now lol.
I think the problem with this season is that it was written as a 10 episode season, where episode 9 and 10 would have been the payoff for the entire season, but HBO told them "no, you get 8 episodes now" and the writers strike prevented them from making substancial changes to the script, so they were forced to leave the payoff for the next season.
I just think the dialogues between characters are not that interesting / poorly written. I don’t mind the lack of action if there is interesting character development
i remember the last part of season 1 was Rhaenyra looking at the camera with hate and vengeance. Then in season 2, she's a grieving mother that's inconsolable. I understand that can happen, i just feel like it's a disconnect and a disappointing failed setup.
I feel like season 2 is each character reacting to the throne. In the face of being responsible for a kingdom house dragon got their shit in order just like when she became a mother she became less selfish. Team green is striving to hold on to power and becomes more erratic to do so. Daemon calls himself a king because he has never been so close to his goal, he is then humbled when he can no longer trust his own mind. I think these are all great character developments that make sense. Each character has their own reaction to getting more power and some seek to take more. This is game of thrones a character study of power.
I hate this season more than anything of late. This season was good up until ep4. everything later was junk except Vermithor and Hugh. Daemon should stop having visions in ep5. ep 3 and 4 was already boring to see. Meetings of Riverlords should have happened in episode 5, battle of rivermen and winter wolves vs Lannisters should happen in episode 6 or 7.Gullet should have happened in final episode. This is story about war and yes i want to see war otherwise political talks make no sense . Also Alicent betraying her family makes no sense. There is nothing to be said between Alicent and Rhaenyra. War is started and cannot be stopped. Only good thing is that Rhaenys died. I couldn't stand her wisdom talk that actually contains no wisdom at all
Episode 1-4 good almost great! Episode 5-8 mediocre almost bad no real payoff in the end and Daemon, Rhaenyra have been far too passive almost unrecognizable the writers back-pedaled with peace talks to have season 2 be another build up to war when the conflict should be on. Alicent sadly doesn't belong in the story anymore it's a civil war between Aegon and Rhaenyra, she can be a peripheral minor character but that's it
I hate Aemond. Not the things he’s done in the story (which i don’t like) but his character. He is comically evil, badly delivered and nothing he’s ever said has sounded the least bit threatening to me. That scene where he berates Aegon in Valyrian that everyone praised to me was 100% Aegon (i don’t remember the name of the actor). I also don’t believe for a second that he’s the best fighter in team green. I did like seeing him more humanized at the end though.
My biggest issue with the second season was similar. I LOVE how this show takes time to write complex female characters. But with complexity also comes the ability to sometimes do great harm or make huge mistakes as a result of failures of judgement and unsympathetic character flaws. I felt the writers were hesitant to push the female characters into darker places and actually held them back or pushed them into unnatural ones to try to telegraph that "women approach war differently than men do." Yes, women DO, but that difference is more in HOW they would choose to fight, not WHETHER they would choose to fight. Rhaenys was the only woman whose actions and pushes for patience seemed normal because it was how her CHARACTER was always written. Rhaenyra has always been written as fiery, unconventional, and independent, so her actions and restraint felt strange. Alicent havibg fear about getting caught up in plotting which then went over her head and out of her control, and then abandoning duty and running away from it as a driver felt more realistic but it was framed not as cowardice but as "empowerment," which seemed like they couldn't let a female character just be "not a great person." The side female characters also constantly commenting to each other about how "men conduct war" or being shown as having more pacifist streaks seemed unrealistic and too on the nose. It made the narrative seem watered down and also, many of the female characters felt weaker as a result.
“The book is the book, the show the show, they will tell you as if they’re saying something profound” George’s own words. When you don’t respect source material you’re then making bad fan fiction. Anyone angry the were more battles can be dismissed. It’s not about that. It’s about complete character assassination.
I wouldn’t have noticed all the flaws in writing and character arch had there been a payoff…something grand to take my attention away from it. I certainly don’t need battle sequences every episode, that’s not what makes the show great. But strategically placed battles, battles that are earned…or ones that have been built up to for TWO SEASONS…we needed SOMETHING. Not bc we need constant battles, but bc it balances out the story telling…the frustration comes from waiting 2 years for a season 2, only for nothing to happen, and now having to wait 2 MORE years…it’s infuriating…. Without any sort of payoff, now I start to dig deeper into things I didn’t like and I notice them more. Daemon’s character was subtracted from, Rhaenyra, Aemond, Alicent…everyone suffered from what felt like a truncated season that was handicapped by limited budget. It’s really hard to fathom that HBOs flagship series, the thing that keeps the lights on, continues to struggle THIS much from budget constraints. They’ve gotta do something about it. This season was unacceptable
Ppl need to stop strawmanning the criticism that its a filler season with us wanting action like some junkie. The pacing has ground to a halt, changes made which are utterly nonsensical, poor characterizarion especially of the women and pñot points which torpedos the themes of the show
I rather like that none of the characters are single note hero/villain casts and have multiple facets to them. I’ve seen the books as a superficial 3rd person account of what may have happened… and the show is a messier more complex showing of what did happen. This season should have ended with the battle of the Gullet… then everyone would have had their thirst for blood quenched.
The primary issue with this season seemed to be the writing. At times it was magnificent and epic, while at others it was frivolous, strange, and inconsistent with the characters. These minor issues only exacerbated the main problem. It felt as though they provided just enough intrigue at key moments to keep us engaged and optimistic. Despite my desire to adore this show, I often found myself merely enduring it, clinging to the hope of loving it.
I loved the last whole season...can't wait for the other season to start. I love how they give you the story and explanation of everything. I am enjoying the show. It helps to understand GOT better.
I hope the writers of this show read this. They stink! Game of Thrones had better writing better acting and felt more like an experience. I can't stand how safe this show feels. Dont even get me started on THAT KISS...smh. I love George though, he is one of my favorite writers.
I think the problem with this series is that the characters, while very nuanced, a not all that interesting or entertaining. Game of thrones had iconic characters like Tyrion, cersi, oberyn etc and different iconic characters got paired together for some great dialogue: Arya and the hound, Jon snow and Ygritte, Jamie and brienne. There are some many memorable characters but with HotD I feel the characters are all a bit boring and the show takes them to seriously. We need some brons and tyrions to lighten things up. I feel this is what makes it boring. It also lacks the sense of movement and adventure that GOT had where characters spent time traveling together and alliances shifted etcetera. It’s very beautifully directed, very well acted, some great scenes.. but it’s just missing those memorable characters. A source material problem? I never read the book.
There is not enough back drop from each house it's all just hurried and since I haven't read the books its doesn't go together like GOT did it leaves to many questions with to much skimmed over, only to end up short in episodes and wait time not even sure at this point if I will watch next season. Disappointing i used to look forward to watching GOT this not even a little.. HBO needs to do what it takes so this can live up to GOT audience
they chose the route of deconstruction for a lot of these characters. At a point in time when it was no longer needed nor fitting in terms of the story.
The showrunners and higher ups at hbo must know that this show has gotta be a hit on the highest level .hbo doesn’t have much else going for them now . Stop half assing it and make it good all the way through . They messed up the GOT end if they do it with this HOTD show . A massive amount of fans are gonna lose interest in the franchise .
The two shows are at the core, highly politically based; and THAT is the source of the wars. No matter how a ruler might try to stave off a war at any given point, it's not always possible. So while I can see some people being frustrated by the reputation of the show's predecessor to just brutally kill off x characters, in my opinion sometimes simply for shock value than good sense, it does make sense that in a "filler" season; they'd show the attempts TO stave off the combat as long as possible. Recall this show is based on high born families that are irrevocably tied together. Would you want to gut your cousin, or little sister, or elder brother (okay that last one might be a bad example...) or an uncle etc? So yeah, it could be as boring as watching eight to ten episodes of paint drying, but it is a logical avenue.
I thought season 2 was good, but not great. It felt like an incomplete season, and it clearly needed 2 more episodes. The season finale was lackluster for a finale, but still was a solid episode in itself. The show runners needed to beg for a5 least one more episode to end the season.
