Rocco killing roth made no sense. Personally, he was to high profile. He is known as captain/ underboss in the corleone family. Michael just got away with it this public execution in front of the media, by a msn close to him in his employ incriminates Michael. For a long time i never noticed it was rocco just someone likr him I did notice Christopher Nolan had an almost identical scene in batman begins in a courthouse, but with a female hitman ( woman)
Fredo did it... He opened the curtains... It was to be a kidnapping...That way Fredo could become acting boss of the family, then he could get Michael out, and become the Hero he always craved to be, with Michael eternally grateful to him... The plan was for the kidnappers to blast out the windows but not shoot Michael... Then they would enter Fredo's room thru his window, grab up Michael tie him up and blindfold him and shoot him with a tranquilizer dart... During the ensuing chaos they would carry Michael to Fredo's trunk and hide in the back while Fredo drove them off to their getaway car under the ruse that he was heading to the Sheriff's station to notify them about what's happening... But in typical Fredo fashion he gets cold feet and shoots the two kidnappers as they approach his room...
After the attack on the house Michael tells to Rocco he wants them alive. He has to repeat it ." ROCCO alive ". He is speaking to Hagen Hagen:" You think we will ever found out who was it" Michael:" If I'm not mistaken, they are already dead . My father thought me to think like men around me, all of our men are businessmen ".. Michael tells Tom that Fredo is stupid but has a good heart. He knew Fredo wouldn't kill anyone. He sits on the train and went to NY to speak to Frank P. He tells him he needs time to found out who was betrayer in his family. He knew Fredo didn't kill anyone nor did he know they were gonna try to kill him. Of course it was Rocco.
I always thought that a good storyline would've involved Rocco being diagnosed with a terminal illness & volunteering for the "suicide mission" of taking out Hyman Roth, in order to prove his loyalty to Michael & the family!
Someone could explain to me , why Michael sent him to the impossible mission no way to survive if he is not a traitor and the other question is why Rocco accepted that mission
Just like tony accardo having his house robbed everyone died even the housekeeper and the hitmen who killed everyone involved.. Rocco has to take fall for letting it happen..i think Rocco takes job knowing he going to die but to orove to Michael that it wasn't him only way is to die for him
It was not hosted by the Senator. The Nevada Senator was only a guest at Michal’s lakeside estate. How can one take your analysis seriously when you get basic things wrong.
These questions are not answered. The movie was always meant to be vague. Rocco isn’t that important a character in the Godfather series despite his position in the family.
Yes, he did!! Tom Rosqui, Rocco’s actor was a friend of my late grandfather’s. Despite the actor’s long going battle w/ cancer, his character also shared the same sickness. Rocco was given little time to live and was in hot water for being too busy having sex w/ Fredo’s wife while the would be asassins snook in and almost got Michael!!
Sounds like you’re talking about Jack Ruby who shot Oswald. Ruby was ill with lung cancer so he went on the suicide mission of assassinating Oswald. Ruby’s family were supported afterwards by the Mob.
It puzzles me that if Rocco was working for Roth, you would think that Roth would have recognized him at the airport terminal and realized that something was amiss.
Roth didn't care at that point what would happen to him. He was going to be taken into custody and was terminally ill anyway. And even if he cared, it's not inconceivable that he wouldn't recognize Rocco, assuming Rocco worked for him. And if Rocco did work for Roth, maybe he never met Roth and worked for him through someone else, most likely Johnny Ola.
Rocco may have had an axe to grind with Michael. Rocco was brought in by Clemenza, and Rocco was very loyal to Pete. Remember the scene in the beginning with Frankie, Willie Cicci, and Fredo. Pentangeli is wearing a black arm band for Clemenza. Fredo says heart attack, but Cicci says, “That was no heart attack.” Maybe Rocco blamed Michael for Clemenza’s death, and joined the plot with Fredo to get back at Michael.
Rocco may have had an axe to grind with Michael. Rocco was brought in by Clemenza, and Rocco was very loyal to Pete. Remember the scene in the beginning with Frankie, Willie Cicci, and Fredo. Pentangeli is wearing a black arm band for Clemenza. Fredo says heart attack, but Cicci says, “That was no heart attack.” Maybe Rocco blamed Michael for Clemenza’s death, and joined the plot with Fredo to get back at Michael.
I always wondered why Kay notices the drapes open after she's in bed, not before she went to bed.? Fredo betrayed Michael in the worst way. He never stopped to think how ruthless he really was. Fredo is responsible for what happened.
Is it possible that Micheal had Roco assassinated? Micheal would have some cops in his pocket. Roco seems confident in his assassination of Roth, but didn't get far at all. Two birds one stone.
Rocco could of fled and not carry out the risky mission, if he was the traitor. I would mention that Rocco felt personally responsible for the attack on the compound he was place in charge. I dont believe that Roth was able to get to Don Micheal high-ranking members other than fredo corleone.
These are just movies, what’s wrong with you people? None of these scenarios are real 😂😂😂😂😊the Corleone family doesn’t exist and never has!! Vito Corleone/Andolini was really Marlon Brando from goddamn Omaha Nebraska!!
I believe 100% it was Fredo. Roth probably promised him to make him the head of the family and Roth probably treated him like an equal just to trick him to trust him.
When Michael said to Kay "that's my family, it's not me" he meant it at the time. Then they tried to kill his father, and this is where he became his family, and even more ruthless. Young men see their fathers, especially in this situation, as "immortal" and seeing your father on the brink of death at the hands of other men, reminds you of your mortality, and this will either break you or do the complete opposite.
I agree 100%. Either you will become the predator or prey. And Michael became the apex for predator. The scene that I feel is what changes him along with actually killing the captain and solozzo. Was when he went to the hospital to check in Vito. And he’s rubbing his fathers head and says everything’s gonna be alright now, I’m here now, I’m with you pop. You could tell Vito is both sad due to the tears and happy due to the smile. Vito then realized Michael is the one who will lead the family. The hit on the Captain and Solozzo just solidifies his capability for brutality.
@@yuriboyka6131 That’s actually a very good observation. I never thought that about the hospital visit and the words exchanged. There was two camera shots in that scene - one with Vito smiling and a _separate_ one with him crying, right? I wondered why the producers showed the smiling and crying and then thought it was just incidental or portraying emotions. But because Mario Puzo was such an exceptional producer, again we’re shown that everything in his movie is not incidental/accidental but done on purpose. Again, Godfather one and two are the best movies of all time. Perfect movies. Thanks for that Yuri. I look forward to the next time I watch the movie. Maybe later today lol.
@@josephh891 I find the movie is a constant representation of the different paradox’s of life. How everything has a black and a white. I actually rewatched for God knows which time the other day, and realized that scene. Him telling Enzo the baker to come out with him. Him demanding aid from the nurse to move his father. At first it seemed as if she was in on the 2nd hit on Vito. But Michael didn’t care, he demanded her aid, which was one of the first moments he uses his power. And then the rest is history after that.
@@yuriboyka6131 Yes. Another good observation. The first time I saw the movie I thought the nurse at least knew that it was about to happen, but became fearful of Michael assuming he too was a gangster. But at that point he was the furthest from a gangster. After what they did to his father, that was about to change.
Rocco's only fault was being soft on Fredo, who allowed assassins to get near Michael's house... Rocco was wllling to take the suicide mission to shoot down Hyman Roth. This is to make amends for compromised security.
Roth was too relaxed at the airport and never recognized Rocco. Roth would have obviously seen him throughout the meetings that were held over the years.
I can't believe I'm watching this.. the movie clearly states Fredo did it. Unless there's lost footage of this MOVIE! Who cares. We are not debating the civil war here
I dont understand how any discerning viewer could rule out Rocco. When Michael told Tom "I dont think I have to wipe everybody out, just my enemies, that's all". That's exactly what he did in getting rid of Fredo, Pentangelli, Roth and Rocco - all four who were involved in various ways in the same overall plot to get rid of Michael. Each of the others had one thing in common - Roth. And they all suffered the same fate as he did. In the scene where Michael goes to ask Fredo what he knows about the Pentangelli and Senate hearing issues, who was with Fredo but gets up and walks away? Rocco. It is inconceivable that the assassination attempt happened and Rocco just happened to be asleep at the wheel that night of all nights. There is zero logical possibility of this. Roth would have needed Fredo for his proximity but he also would have needed someone on the muscle end of the family to make his plan viable. When Michael returned from Havana, he asked both Rocco and Newry to step outside while he asked Tom about Fredo. By this timw Michael surely knew Rocco was involved, but he could not single Rocco out at that moment of asking them to step outside. Moreover, if Fredo was making a power move, he needed a skilled enforcer to be his underboss. Rocco seemed to fit that bill as his loyalty to the family did not appear as deep as Al's was. After Michael got rid of those four at the end, all his enemies were gone, except his biggest enemy by that time - himself.
Who would have access to Michael's bedroom? Extremly few. The maids possibly but even approaching them would be extremly risky. Even if paid an incredible amount of money, maids and servants typically get very fond of the family they are serving. They like their kids. they like their job. They are already well paid. Especially the maids serving a mob family would be extremly carefully selected fo their loyalty and discretio. They would be the first ones interrogated by the Mafia and the police. And what if they tell Michael about the assassination plot? And yes someone must have let the assassins in. The place is guarded 24/7. Rocco is the only man who gives permission for people to enter the Corleone compound, but only Michael and Fredo can overrule him or take in people at their own discretion. ALso if Michael gets killed or wounded Fredo as underboss automatically assumes command. He can hide the evidence and become a surrogate to Hyman Roth. And who took out the assassins? Certainly not the maids or butlers of Michael. It had to be Fredo.
Always love your Godfather videos! Based on what you have shown, Rocco wasn't a traitor after all. The curtains: either Fredo himself, one of Fredo's men or the maid. The assassins getting on the property: incompetence of Rocco's men. The assassins getting killed: Fredo himself by silencer. Why did Michael finally decide to have Fredo killed: if you noticed when they hug at their Momma's funeral, Fredo is actually making sure Michael isn't carrying a gun. Michael recognizes this and looks at Neri. Neri doesn't want to do it but his boss gave him an order. In part 3, even Connie knows why Michael ordered it.
I think you have it right with everything except for Fredo himself killing 2 men. I think a couple of Fredo's men use silencer's to kill them; just hard to picture Fredo successfully killing 2 hitmen-he's just so limp and weak
Good Lord that superbly acted scene of familial false forgiveness embrace, I MISSED that! I took it to mean Fredo's utter abject supplication to his brother, purely.
@@kevingillard5474 don't get me wrong. At that time at the Funeral he loved his Brother and wanted forgiveness; but unfortunately what he was doing was an extremely dumb move on his part. After the funeral, Fredo finally accepted the fact he was never going to be the Don, he was focused on being a good sibling, friend and uncle. After he got killed, deep down Michael knew that was the wrong decision and it would haunt him; which it did.
I don't think Fredo was frisking Michael at the funeral, even a dimwitted Fredo would know Michael wouldn't be packing a gun at his mothers funeral. The look Michael gave Al was the good to go nod, as he felt no love for Fredo. I thought the assassins throats were slit, not shot?
Is it possible the Assassins killed themselves as they knew one way or another they were screwed..if they were capture by Michael they would be tortured for info and killed and since they botched it Roth would have them killed anyway..so maybe they took themselves out knowing that
Here's my question, which is tangentially related to this topic: I'm confused as to why Michael would risk sending Rocco at all to kill Roth. Obviously, it makes sense to an extent that Rocco would be used for a high-importance mission such as this, but given that it was common knowledge that Rocco was one of Michael's top men (e.g. the FBI Board at the Senate hearing), wouldn't a public assassination and likely suicide mission by Rocco risk exposing Michael's criminal activities and put him under even more scrutiny? Clearly it didn't because there didn't seem to be any consequences by the time Part III rolled around, but having someone so high up in the family committing such a brazen public hit always seemed like a risky move to me.
what if, when Fredo says it wasn't meant to be a hit, Fredos men were meant to kidnap Michael! BUT Roth got word of this, killed Fredos men, and Roths men did the HIT to make Michael think it was Fredo in the hope they'd kill each other? its something Roth WOULD do
When Michael tells Rocco he wants them alive; Rocco doesn't say okay; but instead he says; "I'll try". That always told me that both Rocco and Fredo were traitors and it was Rocco who killed the hitmen. If I'm wrong about Rocco and Fredo was the only traitor; then Fredo had his men kill the assassins. There's no way Fredo would have killed 2 hitmen
@@888strummer I think what he was getting at was that the assassins were obviously armed and would resist being captured. Rocco anticipated a shootout, which was why he wouldn't guarantee the assassins would be taken alive.
Fredo said to Michael he didn't know it was going to be a hit.. The hitters were I think, a part of Fredo's contingency and Roth had someone on the inside to "clean up", just in case things didn't go as planned. Roth was complete, he made almost no mistakes until the end..of course. Nice breakdown CM, totally agreed.
@@meesteranonymous8177I feel like the assassins would have snuck into Anthony’s party and just tried to blend in and then hide out on the compound once everyone left. Then they shot at Michael and Kay when they had a clear shot.
I just don't see it--Fredo was stupid and incompetent. He didn't have the slyness necessary to arrange the hit on Michael or to kill the assassins. When the Don was shot in GF I, he dropped his piece and burst into tears. No way he did it.
I've watched these movies tell I wore out the VHS tapes when I was young, sat and plotted with my buddies about all this, nothing in the movies will ever give you concrete answers, I even sought answers in the book just to know for sure, nothing, some things in these movies is just left to interpretation, like all good art, we don't know why Mona Lisa is smiling.
@@TheCultureMafia can't wait for the Olive Oil Wars! After that, you should do a video about the evolution of Constance Corleone: from naive Bride to Dangerous Sister of Michael Corleone.
When the assassins were found murdered Rocco or one of the security team mentioned that they did not know them but it looked like they were hired out of New York. If they didn't know them how could they make this statement? Very suspicious.
The way they're dressed or something lol I'm no mobster but my older brother ran the streets during the "crack era" and back then you could tell when someone was from NY, down south, VA, DC etc... There's a distinctive look, it's not like today where we all share the same culture, ideas and looks due to social media, back then it was easy to tell where someone was from just by looking at them.
I’ve long thought that there wasn’t actually any traitor. Since watching it with my grandfather as a kid I assumed the hitmen had stayed around from the party, hiding in the bushes or something. There’s also an element of tragic irony if Michael is so tense that he just suspects those around him are traitors. Again, he’s actually not like his father- so cold-hearted and vengeful is Michael that he far surpasses the Don in ruthless cruelty.
@@Mustang-bk4ns I think she opened them when she went to bed. And yes she conspired with some one or learned of the plot and didn't say anything. Fredo may have confided in her his doubts (I think he was in love with her) or over heard someone or found out about it somehow. I know its a bit far fetched. but an interesting idea.
Way off. Kay would not open the drapes and invite 2 hitmen to spray the room she is in with bullets; that would be her own suicide. Fredo was the traitor and would be capable of weasling away from the party to open the drapes. But he would be too limp to kill 2 hitmen so he had his own men kill the assassins.
Tom Rosqui, Rocco’s actor was a friend of my late grandfather’s. Despite the actor’s long going battle w/ cancer, his character also shared the same sickness. Rocco was given little time to live and was in hot water for being too busy having sex w/ Fredo’s wife while the would be asassins snook in and almost got Michael!! Rosqui laughed at all the stupid, “Rocco was a traitor theories” on his deathbed as much as he did in the 70s when fans would ask the same thing!! Him getting shot in the airport by security was supposed to symbolize Michael’s cold hearted transformation as he sent his most loyal man to his death just to get even w/ an enemy.
Rocco did kill the assassins. Cold-blooded transformation? Vito sent Luca Brasi to certain death. That was Cold-blooded. Michael assassinated all involved in the attack on the house, directly and indirectly.
Whoever killed the assassins was with the group that found the bodies. The German Shepherds with them are not trying to find the strange scent of whoever put the bodies there, meaning that they are familiar with the scent.
More clear cut proof that the Godfather saga is the finest in cinematic history. Proving who the traitor at the Corleone Compound was is far more difficult. Look at all the scenarios that this one scene has! Could it be Al Neri, Fredo, Rocco? Could Roth himself have pierced through Michael's air tight security? It is little wonder that when Tom Hagen said, " His condition is listed as terminal." He's only supposed to live another six months." Michael quickly replies, "He's been dying of the same heart attack for 20 years." Roth was the most dangerous enemy the Corleone family had ever encountered. Like the legendary Mafia Don Lucky Luciano, Roth had the type of power that reached beyond even prison walls. He had to be eliminated at all costs. It is remarkable that Rocco volunteered for what was clearly a suicide mission. It may have been a way to atone for his failure at the compound. Or even for his own guilt. In terms of a more obvious culprit, Fredo would seem to be Public Enemy Number One. Fredo was envious of Michael's status and power. He was also incredibly naive and just plain stupid. Only Fredo would be gullible enough to believe the whole plot was a kidnapping! A perfect candidate for Roths Fall Guy. In my opinion, Fredo was the traitor at the compound. Rocco was merely trying to clean his own slate by volunteering to assassinate Hyman Roth. Once again, Michael still comes out on top. Just like these peerless films.
No he wasn't. After business failed in Cuba he was desperately trying to get into Israel. He was rejected. He was paying millions to get to Panama " He won't get it ".says Michael. Michael payed millions to get him into country. Hagen tells him he doesn't have to kill everyone.. True , he was sick, dying from the same disease and behaving as if he was gonna live forever but Hagen was right....at that moment he didn't pose any danger. Michael found him in record time and killed him out of pure vengeance while he himself was under watchful eye of the government
I always thought it was Neri who orchestrated the assassination attempt, the way he leaves the blinds an inch open during the scene when Tom tells Michael about the miscarriage. Al is the closest to Michael, “keeps your friends close and enemies closer.” My theory is that the way Michael subjugates Al to making drinks and acting as his butler gets under his skin, and the Roth takes advantage of this. Michael has trust problems, not just the fact he doesn’t trust his own family, he trusts the wrong people too. It would be poetic irony that the person closest to Michael is actually his undetected enemy.
Interesting but given Neri's backstory and relationship with the Corleone's, this doesn't really fit with his character AT ALL. Neri was Michael's Brasi. The same way Brasi would walk into hell for Don Vito, so would Neri for Michael
I remember my parents watching the Godfather when I was a kid and not understanding a lot of the movie. As I got older, I rewatched these movies many times and finally understand them better. Your videos are the in-depth analysis that I didn't know I needed. 👍
You want my opinion, I think Roth what is smart to use the dummy Fredo and the lack of security Rocco in his scheme. To wack Michael and I think Rocco accepted to hit Roth as payback to making him look stupid
It just occurred to me; wouldn't Roth have immediately recognized Rocco at that news conference and then signaled his men to intervene? Or by that point was Roth too weary/resigned to do anything about it? Just a thought.
Not necessarily, and it looks like his sole companionship was the authorities, if I'm not mistaken. The use of someone who, hypothetically, was one of Roth's key tools against Mike, would also add extra significance to the ceremony of the execution. At least that's my opinion.
Fredo did not kill the hit men after all he didn't know it was a hit , the obvious answer is that a another member of assassins probably killed the two shooters to coverup everything and making sure they did not talk later the person who killed them more than likely died upon their return from Tahoe
It was Fredo's wife opened up the drapes, Rocco took her away after she played the scene. Perfect setup remember her running out screaming Fredo killed them
Akin to the moment in The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King when Denethor sends Faramir to retake the garrison at the river, it mirrors Michael’s sending of Roco to his death to assassinate Roth, in its heartsick, depraved madness: Denethor: Is there a captain here who still has the courage to do his lord's will? Faramir: You wish now that our places had been exchanged - that I had died and Boromir had lived. Denethor: Yes. I wish that. Faramir: Since you were robbed of Boromir, I will do what I can in his stead. If I should return, think better of me, Father. Denethor: That will depend on the manner of your return.
It’s quite obvious that the hitmen tried to seek help from fredo who opened the drapes and showed them where to shoot. They probably lied and claimed they would just leave a message in his room or something stupid.
I think Michael manipulated Rocco into taking that mission because he simply could. Michael was a master manipulator at getting people to do what he wanted them to do. Michael was a stone cold thinker the assassinations for example all the bosses walked right into the traps he set all at the same time Frank Pantangeli's suicide, Carlos death, Fredo's death. Michael was a puppet master.
If Rocco, the head of security, had been involved there would have been no reason to also involve Fredo, since the head of security is infinitely more useful in an assassination attempt. If Fredos involvement in the plot was only to establish contact between Roth and Rocco or to tell Roth on how to approach Rocco, he would have known that Rocco was the real traitor and he would have told Michael later on to get Michael to forgive him. Not to mention, if the head of security had turned traitor Michael wouldnt have survived. He could easily create a situation which Michael couldnt possibly escape without putting himself in any risk. Regarding the drapes, I always thought Kay asked about them being open because the staff or the guards would usually close them when it got dark for security reasons. But there just was a giant party at their house that lasted until well after sunset. So anyone could have wandered in and opened them again. From a guest to some help hired for that day. And they could just claim to be looking for the bathroom or something if someone caught them wandering about. Roth didnt need a traitor to get them open.
It was always my impression that Rocco went into the Roth assassination like any good soldier goes into combat-with the belief that they were immortal and nothing was going to happen to *them*.
Except that Rocco had been in the US Army in WWII and was wounded in action resulting in him being sent back to the states. He would like have realized that he wasn't immortal having been in combat before.
My guess is that Michael wanted to make sure if Rocco was the ride or die kind of person. Whether Rocco was loyal enough to roll with Corleone that far or was he just a backstabbing coward. Rocco definitely was one of the aces in Corleone's deck. When all the Jacks were useless to face the "cards" of stronger lears, Michael could continue the play by using one of the aces like Rocco Lampone. In fact, with soldiers like Rocco or Al Neri, or like the one that was killed in Roth's quarters, Michael was playing "Full House" or "Three of A Kind"...
You don't like the Rocco theory, I get it. What would be insurmountable plot holes in any, lesser film, are mere side mysteries to one of the great epic tragedies of modern cinema. One of the coolest things about GFP2 is that it is such a powerful character study of Michael Corleone and his quixotic mission to legitimize family business, that it doesn't even need to answer every darn question, much unlike modern 'cinema'. Now that being said: I admit I had trouble seeing your viewpoint on this one: Your observations, thoughts and doubts regarding the Rocco's behavior when reporting to Mike and the method of assassination of the assassins are noted, but they are far from convincing regarding ruling out his culpability in the attempted murder. Rocco's (or, for that matter, actor Tom Rosqui's) behavior is hardly conclusive, since his words and emotions would be the indistinguishable from that of the innocent, if he were truly Sicilian. If I had to pick someone, Rocco would have the means, motive and opportunity, but the truth is, thankfully, the solution is not central to the very subtle story. As far as your comments about Rocco's sense of self preservation, , and as far as the method of dispatching the gunmen, is concerned, that doesn't point to anything conclusive either; why does Rocco=guilty have to imply his direct murderer of the gunmen, and with a gun at that? Finally, as far as your skepticism regarding Rocco staying put for a time after being a suspect, an argument from incredulity is not quite sufficient from where I'm sitting. Don't forget, all eyes were on Carlo after Sonny, and remember how both in script and book, Carlo was set at ease for years before his reckoning. And also remember Mike's soliloquy about "Keep(ing) your friends close, and your enemies even closer"; such a strategy would be an excellent way to ensure that Rocco, were he the Corleone traitor, would not be too suspicious before his time. There are also still subtle clues pointing to Rocco, which you have not addressed nor refuted, such as the use of the new bodyguard in conjunction with Michael's comment about the mercenary/businessman philosophy of his staff, as well as Rocco's role in what was basically a suicide mission (you used the Tatagglia hit as visual support, but he was much lower in rank, as his regime was still secret, and not a full family until after the job which was _not_ a suicide mission). And, while it may be true that Rocco was written into a version of GFP3, please note that they even brought back Calo for 3 even though his death is implied in the movie and stated in the original novel. Although your objections are also noted, I don't consider them to be airtight rebuttals of the Rocco-as-traitor theory. Despite attempts here to paint Fredo as somehow more cunning and capable than he actually was, the fact remains that Fredo would be one of the last people to be trusted with any kind of mission critical implementation based on just about every scene on both screen and page. PS excellent production; I admire your work.
If Rocco or anyone else had a maid or staff open the drapes then that creates at least one new witness so I disregard that option as it's too risky ...
