The Reality of Top Tier Jets... | War Thunder 

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I wish we had RB EC. Top tier Air RB is kinda boring after a few matches.

you know its bad when a air RB only player switched to ground RB, because of how horrible top tier air feels. It feels more like a punishment to reach top tier in air rather than a reward. "Cool! I have my SU-27SM after 2175495 hours of grinding!" *proceeds to eat 10+ Fox-3 and IRCCM missiles in the first match*

i still dont get why people still accept sponsorships from ge for wt

Project wingman perfectly sum up wt top tier: "Spamraams out!"

I haven't even bothered to play top tier jets since they added AMRAAMs and similar missiles. I literally only use my JAS-39C for AA role in GRB

I've gotten about 3,500 matches of War thunder and I totally agree. War thunder TopTier Air RB has gotten very stale. As a result, I have moved to simulator to try and fix many of the problems that the game faces. For anyone that is no longer enjoying War Thunder RB, I would highly recommend trying out simulator.

I strongly disagree that IR missiles have no space at top tier - it is SO EASY to nuke ground-huggers who think I fired an AMRAAM at them, when in reality I fired an all-aspect IR. So many people complain that they were multipathing the missile, lol. Get wrecked.

The game would be ok at top tier if there was actual balancing and no "meta or bombing". Modern technology and BR compression makes the gap of stock or non-meta planes against meta planes too far

As a player that reached the top tier without having AIM-120 (I grinded USSR as first TT). I found myself very frustrated, I can got top 1 in a match but it's not that quite often. So I started to grind France and for my surprise I find a really cool spot to play, which is BR 10.0, I'm having such a good time with my Mirage IIIC, because it's a mix, we need to dogfight, we have missiles, but we need to use them carefully, not just lock radar and go eat donuts. And we can admire the beauty of jet fighters without concerns of being hit by a FOX-3. I mean I don't even have RWR and countermeasures, but if you play well you can dodge de missiles at this BR. When I got the F-16AM I think I might have a new perspective of top tier, since I will be using one of the meta aircrafts and not the really frustrating Su-27SM.

As someone who played Top Tier almost exclusively since the Mig-15/Sabre F2 days, I can confidently say that I won't play it anymore. It's the most boring and one-dimensional gameplay ever compared to lower tiers. Point your nose at someone, turn away and spam chaff, repeat. Even a 109 BnZ is more interesting, especially interesting to watch, than this. The only reason I'm still subscribed to Seek, is that I like their commentary. The gameplay is basically not worth watching, since literally every video is top tier jets.

3:50 Yeah totally how a 90's missile should behave, I get that Gaijin needs to make ARH seekers that bad to fit it in warthunder environment but this is too damn hilarious.

Imagine playing the same match, against the same opponents in a f16adf...with no fox3s Just Two aim7m no hmd no tws...

the f14 problem is just the baby version of the f15 with spamraams

American mains: 27ERs are OP WE NEED AIM120s American mains: Missle spam sucks

One of the most cracked things of top tier is the amount of players

Man, I can't wait for the F-18's SPAMRAAMs.

I think that Top Tier Air RB needs a wildly different playing system than a copy-paste from all the previous tiers. I don't really have a name for it, but I like to call it the Bastard Son of RB Air and SB EC. Players would be able to bring a lineup of aircraft (like in Air AB) that cost varying amounts of SP (like with RB Ground) depending on the loadout that's equipped. Players have a choice for what spawn they'd like to begin at, with there being 2 to 4 different airfields spread out evenly with some having closer spawns to bases or targets of value. The map, to make up for the 2-4 airfields, would be significantly larger; with upwards of 150km x 150km, maybe even up to 250km. This would also increase the battle timer back to 1hr at least, maybe more. To make up for the significant size of the map, there would be functioning radar sites or even AWACS, sending periodic markers on maps of detected enemy aircraft. These markers would be smaller to aircraft that were flying lower, making them smaller (but not significantly so) to see so as to avoid the lawnmower meta. Destroying these radar sites and AWACS would decrease tickets by a little, but would make it significantly more annoying to find remaining enemy aircraft. AI long range bombers (like B-52s, Tu-95s, nothing like supersonic ones) would take off, assisted by escort fighters and/or ECM aircraft. These long range bomber squadrons and AWACS wings would also allow for aircraft with more niche roles (like Interceptors, the Tornado ADV/F.3/F.3 Late) to shine, being able to *actually* intercept instead of flying around like glorified SL and RP targets. Of course, with a larger map, there would also *finally* be a need for aircraft to bring more fuel and choose engagements carefully instead of flying around like UFOs on minimum fuel. If you had low fuel, you'd have to conserve throttle or fly higher to get a bigger bang for your buck. I haven't put a significant amount of thought into this, but I still think it would be fun to see played out.

Love this video, in particular I love your comments about not over defending in the 1v1s. I do really enjoy that cat and mouse aspect of it. I do actually prefer the M2K and the J-10A in particular though for those jousting battles, the PL-12 and especially the MICA are so much better than the AIM-120 high off boresight that I find you can exert pressure so much better. Someone using the amraams has to expose themselves a lot more for those close range shots

We all know that the true ultimate gigachads of War Thunder play either around 6.0 or 9.0...

The addition of Fox3's has made top-tier utterly unplayable. It's not fun getting sniped from 30+km from something you never saw coming, and that with the iranian F14 it has made it so much worse.

i want RB EC, everytime that i play Sim battles i imagine how it would be a RB EC without plane markers just like sim forcing you to rely on your radar, but with RB controls...

Without watching the video first I´ll just drop my thoughts on AirRB. Air RB atm is just unfun cuz on high tier you will just get absolutly smacked if u dont have a jet with a lot of long range radar missles or havent unlocked it yet. I personally just unlocked the Gripen and I cant get it to work properly cuz I barely can research anything cuz its either the fack u only get RB74M IR missles and most of the time cant get to the fight in time because everyone just dead from long range radar missles or u just play the dodge the missle game because again everyone just spams Radar missles and its not like if u get a downtier u just farm everyone because on downtier u now get the F14 with the Fakour rockets which basically makes the downtier essentially the same as a normal match or an uptier. Its just a powercreep and it will only get worse over time because new jets cant be worse than the older one otherwise noone would play them

This is exactly why RB needs a good - even improved-upon - RB mode, with a custom lobby that allows for more flexibility - and so creativity, that will go into what kinds of lobbies we can make.

My favorite part of the video is when Seek said "it's seekin' time," and his radar sought out all the enemy planes for his missiles.

I actually love the top tier meta, Fox 3 warfare is fun for me. At least things like the F15 have counters (not great counters but counters) the F14 on the other hand...

Its sad and depressing and its all about the dopamine when playing top tier

The only way to beat the snail is to stop feeding it. I've been spending more time trying to learn DCS and Vtol VR.

I absolutely hate top tier, well I hate radar missile spam. It’s not fun the only time I thought top tier was fun was sim top tier maybe it’s the fact that you would almost never be double teamed or it’s the fear. If I was to play air rb I would just play the US f-100 because there isn’t really any radar missiles

the mirage is actually evil in this type of fight too, since it not only has HMD & MICAs, but good flight performance ontop of that!! full real mirage feels legitimately like ace combat if you practice using it casually enough

I’ve been playing since the game came out. And mostly been playing top tier jets. But recently a friend lured me into 6.7 tanks. And i must admit, it’s the most fun i’ve had in warthunder for a loooong while

Needs to be some new top tier game modes, every single game goes the same. Just spam out fox 3s, hope for the best and then die because 13 missiles have been launched at you

A few days ago i had a game in my US F-4E where for some miracle i didn't get uptiered to the F14 spam shitfest and i had a nice long 8 kill win game with a 1v5 at the end. It was so satisfying and took a lot of effort to pull off but it was so enjoyable. Top tier, well i don't even want to talk about that lol.

You know how that Gripen chaffed your AIM-120A from like 6KM? Well I have a clip of a Gripen just randomly chaffing in a straight line, fooling my pl-12 from like 2km lol. I feel like the gripen is still broken in some ways (broken as in bugged).

1 aim 9m for those sneaky shots where you don't want them knowing where you are (radar off)

And also you need an aced crew, bc every turn on 0.7M and above, will turn game into black screen. I don't have aces/experts on F-15 (bc I wanna wait for Eagle with AESA radar) and it's nearly unplayable. Top tier jets need increased base g-tolerance yesterday.

i hate it when my skill of pressing the missile button is outmatched by opponent's skill of pressing the counter measure button

Way to go BVR LARPers, you killed the furball! Now instead of dying to random IR missiles, you're doomed if you have a russian HMD or less than 120 countermeasures. We traded one purgatory for another.

to me this type of gameplay is very high fun and engaging, you can actually bvr and its about going defensive for just long enough and then re-comitting.

They should be introducing notching, chaffing and multipathing resistant Fox3s soon, that way make the match more spreadout rather than a Fox2 range Fox3 clusterfuck, also need RB EC maps

Giving the F-15 its historical 8 AIM-120 loadout was another egregious balancing decision akin to the KA-50 with it's 12 Vikhrs. US teams with F-15s just clean up, nothing can challenge them for the reasons above in the video. It's only going to get worse when the F/A-18 comes in "murder hornet" configuration. Sometimes in a game balance concessions should be made.

Honestly, I said it when Apex Predators dropped and i'll say it again. I don't know what players were expecting? Sure there's a PLETHORA of external problems in top-tier ARB from the small maps to the multipathing physics and the horrid reality of the tech tree balance, however, for top tier gameplay, i don't understand why people are so mad. How could you possibly expect dogfighting to be the main gameplay loop with modern fighters, they're literally designed to stay away from dogfights for as long as possble until its a last resort. The main combat of these fighters IS MISSILE COMBAT, BVR is more than 'fire missile, turn away, your missile misses, you dodge missile, repeat'. There's more minor tactics you can use to guarantee kills or even coop with teammates on who to shoot at. Hell, at WVR combat you can bait with IR where you give your opponent 50/50s. Sure it isn't as dramatic as low-tier combat and I'm not saying i like top-tier more, but truly what did you expect?

killing 16vs16 will literally increase the quality of air RB in ALL BR ranges. Props and Jets combined. 16vs16 is way too large. Over 90% of kills in 16vs16 lobbies are 3rd parties and head-ons. And actual 'smart' kills utilizing energy tactics, dogfights, BnZ, or 1v1 missile joust/duals are rare compared to the brain rot level of players going to the center of the map and stabbing eachother in a situation akin to an average gang fight in London, then proceeding to groundpound to win on tickets within 5 minutes. I don't play WT just to be fed with endless meaningless games of "oh look at that everyone died in the first 4 minutes and I got some RP to grind top-tier". I want to have FUN with actual air-combat utilizing my brains edit: comma

me when the f4f ice as germanys only "top tier"

Every time I see F-15 and F-16 radars finding the enemy so quickly I understand that the SU 27's radar is not up to par plus the missiles are not that good

They really need to take the AI planes out of top tier.

F-15C should actually have infinite countermeasures like the Gripen but Gaijin refuses to add it's flare BOL pods -_-

Map allowing, I find flying low works fine and I enjoy top tier by going past everyone at the start and forcing a 1v1 or 1v2 with the “BVR guys” at the back. Works quite well. Sad that’s the only way to have any fun tho😔

I wish there was a version of top tier without the bvr stuff. I kinda just hate BVR combat and arh spam, i get that it's realistic, but it just doesn't excite me the same way a 2 minute ling 1 v 1 gunfight in 50s jets does. I don't care how long the queue is, I just want the exciting fights back, because BVR doesn't feel rewarding when you get a kill and extremely annoying whem you die. At least if you lose an extended gunfight, you can just be content with the fact the other guy is better, and when you hit an insane gun shot it feels great. Idk man, top tier is just insufferable to play.

It's honestly incredible Gaijin doesn't implement different game modes people could choose to play. Like a top tier CQC type game mode that at most would only allow IR missiles if not guns only so people could do what they want to do with trying to dogfight with modern aircraft. Yea IRL things went very wrong if you end up merged like that but it's a game... I got back into it because I like the modern aircraft and systems so I don't necessarily mind it all the time. Would love to see RB EC for sure, and there is nothing wrong with them adding a dogfight mode for those that would like to do that.

Talking about notching, the su-27 and the j-10 is just better than the f15 in the top tier since the aim120 is just bad at closer ranges, while there are barely some bvr scenarios happening in the toptier other than close range missile spammings.

This is actually the combat i've wanted at top tier, because I came to warthunder wanting a casual milsim. Theres plenty of nuance and there's plenty of skill involved in being a better 13.7 player, its a REAL fight (and I dont just mean in the sense of it being realistic), so its not boring. If you dont like that gameplay, you have 12.3 br's were you can dogfight till your hearts content.

I think the vertical ACM (you need to switch scan mode inside ACM mode on some plane) can somewhat replace hmd but it's definetly not optimal

The most fun br is 7.7-8.7, followed by 2.7-3.7

Eagle on top. Im sad the f15a is facing the horde of fox3s, as i dont have the f15c yet.

I started playing the f15jm after struggling with the su27sm and the difference is night and day. Reliable radar with fox 3 good missiles

please stop advertising GE for WT as it violates War Thunder EULA and has gotten many people's accounts banned. I do not want to see my favorite content creators also get banned for advertising a product like this

I prefer to use the IWSM sound mod, it makes the RWR a lot less annoying.

I don't know what the snail is gonna do once we get to next gen fox 3

flight performance still matters, try going defensive in a Flanker, first time you turn around you lose all your speed and cant do shit anymore

I don't get what people enjoy of this gameplay. I'll never go beyond tier 5.

Some vehicles needs to be the punching bag so other players have fun :)

Su27sm with 12 missles💀💀 final boss of missle spam

and this is why i dont see range as an important stat for fox3, range doesnt matter anymore and the fight at around 8:30 wouldve ended sooner if one of you had R77 or Micas, they ARE the better missiles for these engagments

Stop the GE for warthunder sponsorships

10.7 - 12.0 is pretty nice to play, 12.7+ is miserable

i'd decrease the team size still, even the 12v12 on smaller maps is too much. Ideally 10v10 on EC maps imo. But to the gameplay - launch missiles and go cold, that is pretty much modern jet combat in a nutshell, i'm not really sure what people expected. It's what the missiles and jets are designed to do - bvr combat. Most people play top tier jets just because the jets look cool and cause it's top tier, but in reality they don't enjoy bvr and then they cry about it that it's boring. - if this is you, go down in tier to have more "fun" EDIT: multipath is supposed to be unreliable, like it is in real life, the way it is now, it lets you survive sometimes if you fly low, as it should, the worst meta was when multipath worked 100% of the time and clueless people who knew nothing about missiles got to be invincible

F-15C feels also very smooth to play in ASB. Very good overall handling and a decent radar. Personally I don´t even play ARB anymore because of the 16v16 thing. Currently have 3:1 K/D which is not bad IMO. The only other plane I have higher K/D in ASB is the Me 262 A-1A/U1 with 6:1 xD

This is why im sticking to ground. tf am I looking at? this does NOT look enjoyable to play

Haven't played the game in over 5 months and feeling pretty good about it, haha. :D

youre making a big mistake by not using manual radar target-designator-cursor slewing; i would argue that this is far more important than having 19km helmet mounted cueing ACM as they essentially serve the same function: easily pointing your radar in a desired direction without having to maneuver (i bind my slew TDC controls to Alt + WASD and Alt + EQ for elevation, so it's very quick and natural) In comparison to HMD ACM, manual TDC slewing combined with TWS provides far more range and awareness, and you can fire your weapons as soon as your radar receives a return, rather than acquisition it is extremely handy in a situation where you have a rough estimate of where the opponent is, but not precise enough to pick them up with HMD ACM in this fight at 7:00, if you had slewed you radar to the proper elevation angle, more than likely you would've been able to pick out your target without having to point you nose up, and counter launched your amraam

2 games a day and then I'm usually bored. It's not that I'm even performing bad but 2 kills a game is kind of a let down compared to being able to get 6-7 often before amraams. Call me what you want but I really miss high kill games.

Bros a salesmen for the f15c

4:01 this is the main problem with those missiles rn, devs made em with 0 chaff resistance and made em the way that their IOG just turns off when missile is closer than ~5km to the target so if the target is notching and will pop a single chaff - any fox-3 will literally just turn away instead of continuing “tracking” the target via IOG and hit it if it won’t manoeuvre while keeping perfect 3-9 to the missile. At longer ranges IOG works perfectly fine though

Considering fox3s are basically worthless when i fire them in my F4F ICE aswell as the ICE General insanely bad Performance I wont touch air rb until there is anything at top tier i need to grind

vid on playing fox1 planes like the su27 in ARHM lobbies next?

I feel like Gaijn would have to really f-‘d up the balance if the F-15C wasn’t head and shoulders above the next best plane. It’s simulating the mid 90’s early 2000’s currently and that was a time of extreme US dominance. Eurofighter and the rafale should push the pendulum back a little bit towards other nations. Only issue is those planes have Aesa

These are my favourite fights wish it wasnt 16v16 every game

great vid seek. Once the amraam patch dropped i basically quite top tier for good even though I barely played the game now I only do props and cold war era jets when I do play. Anyways this video made get an idea. Could you do a top tier bvr 1v1 video it can be both instructional and for fun. I remember you did a f14 bvr fight video a while ago and it was really fun to watch I'd love to see you do another one

Top tier first 10 game fun later you never gonna want play top tier again and you will find yourself play 10.0 or propeller planes.

i made a similar video where one of the things i talked about was how top tier was too hard to play and people in my coments keep telling me its a skill issue which it is but shouldnt i be playing against people who play as good as me? (skilled based matchmaking)

The problem with top tier air rb is that it is literally arcade and sim is the true air rb

Hell Yea, EAGLE ON TOP

honestly i just couldnt with top tier air rb anymore as a russian main, 10km hms range and trash fm of my planes and just inferior missiles, i have to pray to get into a dogfight even though i have one of the worst fm of top (mig29smt) and it isnt exactly easy anymore to get into dogfights,

The coolest i think is SR-71, the coolest fighter F-22 :v

Hey man I've been watching you for a while now and I just want to let you know that you make absolute banger vids, don't let anyone else tell you otherwise

Okay that dawn map, what are your graphics settings cause I need them

Can we see a similar video for the Su27SM?

my jet doesn't even have a fox missile or any arh missile but i am 13.0 so fun..

I am disappointed at how everyone hates realistic 4th gen combat. They're certainly not wrong for having an opinion. But i think its short sighted for people to just look at a new experience and immediately say "i hate it" when they're not good at it immediately, or just hop on that bandwagon when thats what everyone else is saying. (And dont pretend like bandwagon opinions aren't HUGE in warthunder) Being honest in ones self, i feel like everyone knows its no worse than irccm furballs or passive boom and zooming. Theres a lot more rng-esk bullshit in the former and a lot more dull nothingness in the ladder. But we've all gotten accustomed to it and learned how to do good and have a good time. But when a new gameplay loop comes out were you can reliably stay alive with skill, and yet be constantly firing at and defending from enemies, everyone hates it for reasons that could easily also be applied to lower br's too. It seems more likely that its just new, and either they're not good at it yet, or just hopping on the bandwagon.

If you equip fox 3s it should just +1.3 ur br

Why does US HMD only get 19km but Russian HMD gets 20km?

0:22 wow what i have to do on OF to get entire 6 ge

BVR is a snoozefest

I don't like top tier gameplay, prefer to stick to 12.3 and Sparrow slinging with the EJ Kai.

What are your countermeasure settings? Burst and whatnot?

how can I compete with this in the JAS 39A with RB71 DFs??

I wish there were actual objectives in air RB. Like, bombing bases and then MAYBE bombing the airfield just isn’t enough. Maybe add different game modes, or have different maps support different objectives, maybe some top tier sea maps to give air to sea missiles an actual use in game. God it’s all so mismanaged

I don’t play top tier because I hate the game play. It’s boring. I play about 11.0 maybe lower and some times early jets

but this is what we wanted isn`t it? we wanted amraams didn`t we?