The frame rate on a CRT is not faster. Both TVs will show the game at 60fps. What you mean to say is the image is “sooner”. The CRT displays the correct frames on time while the LCD has been known to fall up to 70 milliseconds behind. That’s about 4.2 frames behind. In order to confirm a hit, the gun needs to sense low light on a single frame at a very specific time and then sense a shift to a significantly brighter light on the next frame (0.016 seconds later). The LCD shows all of the frames the gun needs to see thus at the correct frame rate, just not on time. That’s why the NES cannot confirm the shot.
Thank you for giving a proper explanation on this. I've seen so many crazy explanations like the light gun being able to measure individual scan lines, the gun only working "properly" on a curved crt and even that the gun measures the radiation levels from the crt screen. The true reason: input lag.
+TapesNstuffS Thank you. I do apologize for the quality of the video, though. This was one of my first videos, and I shot it with my cellphone. However, not to split hairs, but the correct term would be output lag - as the newer TVs delay the video output by a fraction of a second, but enough for the light gun to be faster on the draw. :)
They're not crazy explainations lol... The absence of scanlines is literally the only reason light guns do not work on mondern TVs which have advanced to have response times of CRTs or better. An actual clean explaination: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DzIPGpKo3Ag.html
I've seen that video but don't believe what he's saying. It's one of those things where if you hear something explained really carefully, you think it must be true because of how well it's explained but the truth isn't there. Do you honestly expect nintendo to sell a toy in the 80s anywhere near capable of detecting individual scan lines? The exposure time would be ridiculously, and I mean ridiculously low, and the little light gun sensor would have to be able to pick it out, send it to the nes and have it processed. Modern high end high speed cameras are able to do this and even then, you see the image remnant of the previously drawn lines above it. If the gun only needed scanlines there wouldn't be any square at all, simply a line that puts itself over the duck. The reason it's a square is that the light gun is looking for an area of light surrounded by darkness, and not measuring light from specific scanlines. Btw please don't take my comment as an "I think you're stupid" or anything it's just I don't see a toy from the mid 80s being able to accurately gauge individual scanlines.
At the same time, the guy's right because he mentions that by the time a certain flat screen displays the image, it's too late. This essentially blames the problem on input lag.
Having seen disassembled zappers, they're literally just a photo diode, all it's looking for is a specific light level, which when focused as much as it is it'll see either black or white, another thing that could mess with it is the fact that LCD's aren't truely black.
The lag on the modern HDTV is caused by signal processing. An HDTV has to scale the picture sent to it by the NES, creating noticeable latency. If the picture was letter-boxed the HDTV could possibly work with the Zapper. There's a problem, though. The NES has a resolution of 256 x 240, which would look tiny if letter-boxed on an HDTV.
If only someone would develop an adapter for the lightgun that would allow you to calibrate its reaction time, then all of our problems would be solved. Then you could mod the NES for RGB output and send it to the HDTV through the Framemeister, and you would have the best of all worlds.
or just use a crt, they have better color and look way better on analog signals anyways. btw i just did a video seeing if my plasma would pass the latency test... it failed.
If you want to play any light gun games, you will have to use a crt television. That is why you should never get rid of your old tv, and that is the point I wanted to make with this video. Most people nowadays only have a modern TV set, and those sadly won't work with light guns since the latest TVs will try to improve the image - causing a very slight delay in image delivery. This tiny delay is enough to throw any light guns off their timing.
Vigerp im aware on how it works. most electronics i have i got for free cuz they did not work. and i know duck hunt uses a black frame then a black with a white square then one more black frame for the gun, the 2 black frames are so you cant cheat and just point the gun at a light bulb. and if your delay is big enough to shift the timing of the frames then the light gun is a no go. but now you got me wanting to do a side by side to test how bad my delay is. my plama tv is my only non crt and i only use it for ps3. every other system i have runs off my 36" sony trinitron. i.imgur.com/9AeLM9c.jpg this is my setup of were i game, and i made that bench table thing from an old bed frame, tv stand is a turnt over washer!
RockeyDAproductions, I misunderstood earlier. My apologies. I know there are programs out there that will allow you to check for input latencies in frame counts, like the 240p test suite, but I have never used it myself. Also, sidenote: I also use a Sony Trinitron CRT, but I only have the 32 inch, as the 36 inch is hard to find. Quite jealous of yours. :)
Old TVs had less electronics and displayed the image frame as soon as it was received via the signal cable. Newer TVs convert the image into a digital form that the LCD matrix works with. Unfortunately, this takes some time and in some models it results in lag. You need a TV with a low-latency gaming mode and a fast matrix.
I bought a used 14" Toshiba CRT TV for about $14, from an owner of a small restaurant that want to replace it with new LED TV, just to play Duck Hunt , and now the $3 clone zapper's connector is corroded, so I need to wiggle the cable, to make better connection to the $5 NES clone 😂. Damn, I should have told my parents not to throw away that Spica (a decent NES clone complete set from 1990).
I had my box and it works good no red brinking and it appears on my Roku tv and I even bought a new zapper nes but I shoot at the duck and it misses ?? Is it couse it’s a new tv maybe ?? So my question is when I click on the gun it changes from one duck to two so the zapper works but to shoot it does not work ?
This incorrect, the lag or framerate has nothing to do with the technology in a light gun, the light gun works because of the hardware inside the NES, CRT stands for Cathode Ray Tube, effectively a electron gun, when the trigger is pulled the NES sends a signal to the CRT to clear the screen and fire at a specific point on the screen, where the duck is, the light gun is configured to detect that concentration of electrons, modern TV's don't use CRT technology, so the light gun cannot see anything and the game registers it as a miss, the lag is being caused by a signal processor, not the screen itself but the software the TV uses!
There are actually two dimensions to this and you only covered one. The other is the filter used to capture the light coming from the CRT. Even if you compensated for the lag, it wouldn’t work. More info can be found here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qCZ-Z-OZFUs.html
For the original NES? Not that I am aware of. You do however have modern consoles like the Wii and PS3 that have rifle accessories that do work with modern HD TVs. So, by downloading NES games through the Wii store, you will be able to play these games using any TV setup.
It's true that some light peripherals use scan lines in order to know where the device is pointed, which is typically how oldschool styluses work, but not all worked in such a fashion.
It must be true in all cases. Input lag does not explain it when you're dealing with 120hz refresh rates. TN panels have the lowest redraw times that are comparable to CRT screens.
no, it is because on and older TV, also called a ''Tube TV'' has a glass tube in the back of it made out of glass, led, and mercury. The zapper gun shoots out a laser at the speed of light, it bounces from the gun, to the tube in the TV than goes right through the duck and bonces back to the gun. But on a newer TV, if you look at the back of it, they do not have a tube inside, meaning that the laser can not reflect. Although, the lag could be a reason but without having a tube is the main reason.
Duly noted. I have played around with the idea of scripting my videos, which would help with that. English is not my first language, so I often pause to think of what to say next. Downside with scripting is that I think it feels a bit less human and personal.
Your interjections were not distracting from video. You spoke casually and eloquently at the same time. Like a conversation with a friend who is trying to help you with something. I think this guy is just being a critic. You weren't talking slow, it sounded well-paced and understandable. Scripting your videos wouldn't be a good idea because it would seem kind of unauthentic and robotic. Great video and keep making great content!
Thank you so much for your kind words, and also thank you for subscribing. :D That being said, I appreciate critics giving feedback also. There are always two sides to everything, and it all comes down to balancing it all. Too much scripting = robotic and non-personal. No scripting = longer videos. ;)
