To me I always feel that Balenciaga (at least the way they communicate) got that sense of looking down on others, so you can feel high above & edgy. You're part of the inside joke, but the biggest joke is buying to that ideal to me.
Well, i lived during the 90s, i was into fashion, and art, architecture, etc. The thing is, fashion was about creating beauty, within the world of design and fabrics, thats why people like Valentino, Ungaro or Galliano was so apreciated, but then, the owners of this fashion brands realized that fashion was similar to Art, it had an specific audience, and that meant that they only could sell high priced items to that audience, so to get wider they knew they had to mix their product with the vibe of the times, the emerging of the street and the low street culture into pop culture, a symbol of that was the bag that Demna presented for his 1st collection for Balenciaga, the striped Bazar shopping bag, wich is nothing but a leather version of the Bolsa para la Feria that we use here in latin america to go shop the food of the week in the street ferias, only that we buy those for 1 dollar. Today its not anymore about quality or brilliant design and reach a level of beauty, its about the vibe, the idea atached to the garment, the message of the clothes, the logo, and the group that it represents. To me, what got lost, was the idea to create something Beautiful, to get the attention of people through creating beauty.
Resources is a big factor for the decision for a lot of these designers. Virgil had spoken about that before, and also through helping Tyler with Le Fleur’s perfumes/trunks. Designers like going to the established houses because of the sheer resources they have present to do whatever they would like to with it. Demna working with Mercedes F-1 for the futuristic couture glasses and masks would probably not be a possibility if he stayed with VETEMENTS with Guram. He wouldn’t be able to stop and rent out the NYC Stock Exchange. The houses give designers the tools to make their desires possible and grow their networks whilst making a metric shit-ton of profit off their backs.
And to the factor of social values, Demna utilizes lots of the imagery that he was surrounded by growing up, being from a similar area I see the references to the culture in his work. Demna was a child of war, and that show was considering being cancelled due to the war in Ukraine, the trash bags, towels and cheap department store plastic sunglasses were what was available as he had to flee his country’s war. He works heavily with the WFP and up-cycles lots of old pieces for sustainability. As for working with celebs I don’t think that exactly is in his power rather the marketing. Demna worked on Yeezy Season 1 with Ye so he has a mentor relationship there. Kanye set up and stylized lots of what Kim’s association with the brand is. Of course there is a lot that he does wrong or is signaling if anything but compared to most of the fashion landscape of today Demna really is ahead in the aspect of social values, in my opinion.
This is true and the only reason I could really think of. However, in Demna's case he just left the brand he built behind for more resources? I don't think a lack of resources is a bad thing, it means you need to be more creative. I think Demna has definitely still utilised the resources he's been given at Balenciaga to the max, the venues are always amazing but that doesn't mean he didn't have to sacrifice vetements in the process. I'm glad he at least didn't try to run two brands at once. I think I would also just need to know more about the costs and logistics behind these brands to properly understand his motivations.
@@fashionlover4 I agree but don’t think he sacrificed the brand, the tried to do both for a while and that’s when it truly suffered, the collections from when he ran both brands were not very good, he let his brother Guram take the helm, and Guram has somewhat continued the same design language. A lot of the themes and characteristics are shared and they both consult on the designs. Balenciaga let Demna change everything resource vise, down to how the retail stores are brutalist deconstructions, and sustainable in that old (previously trashed) clothes were used to make furniture or decor. I don’t think he could have achieved the same level of success with VETEMENTS if he did the same work for at least another 20-30 years. The resources from a house like Kering are just too great, too many stores, artisans and all. Demna’s spirits and designs are still going on with both brands (down to the Gvasalias Simpsons shirt they did following the Simpsons X Balenciaga collab.
@@brutalitygaming1230 I think the real issue is what is the purpose of this unbounded growth and resources? Why make such political statements against war, against climate change and pollution, and use aesthetics towards revolution only to gain power, but not do anything materially with that power and influence
Off whose backs? Designers get paid very well they aint no common worker, also where are the social values when ur boss is one of the richest men on the planet?
Important conversation. I was trying to decide, after the stock exchange show, whether it’s ignorance, harmful, or playing the role of spectator of world issues.
Same, I saw a lot of praise for the artistic choice which I agree, it was a cool venue but at the same time, it just felt shallow. The message that he was trying to convey is pretty much void because it's a huge fashion brand really just trying to sell more clothes at the end of the day.
Literally demna is just memeing. Taking anything he does seriously is where you lose. His messages are shallow because it’s not real to him. The only time I think his message was real was the show with the models walking in the snow other than that he’s just a clone of margiela
Literally you said all of my thoughts regarding Demna. Also not long ago I saw someone pose the question as to why whenever it’s about Balenciaga everything that’s praised is regarding the show more so than the designs themselves, thing that doesn’t happen for other brands. With Demna it is always about the message and never about the actual product and it’s starting to feel gimmicky to me but it’s also so smart because he turns everything into a satire and that makes everything he does untouchable… yes a hoodie in couture 2022 but like ironically…. Duh.
who said demna is not about the final product? his brand vetements is focused exclusively on the final product. and this is not how many people feel about this brand.. i feel like its how you feel about it
Some really interesting points, I like what you said about designers already having successful independent brands of their own. and the decision to move to a bigger brand. I hadn't really thought about it in the way you discussed it here and it actually made me apply that thinking to my own career. Cool video
His first collection for Balenciaga actually had some startlingly brilliant ideas - altering the pitch of a collar by shrugging it back, that boxy dior bar jacket, the mix of socialite glitz and utilitarian, the overall styling... a lot could have been extrapolated from that single collection for years to come. But I Guess sales figures inevitably creep in and as usual the interesting things did not sell, so it all devolved (in the way that Alessandro Michele’s Gucci , which I loved, gradually abandoned his ornate proclivities because it probably cost too much to do) As a parallel I think Glenn Maartens at YProject could have had a similar trajectory - he started with notoriously hideous garments for the sake of memes and bad press, taken from all the existing tropes of Everyday clothing, and then once he had gotten the attention he needed, started demonstrating technically what he was capable of. Same can be said of Doublet which has wonderfully innovative textiles and treatments masquerading as kitsch. So there is hope out there. Just don’t expect it from a brand which needs to keep thousands of staff in jobs in hundreds of boutiques worldwide.
nice video to watch! i like the fact that you put forward your points in a way which is well informed, true to yourself as well as respectful. regardless of whether people agree or not it would be great to see a video on other designer houses in the future.
Nailed it... opened up new thought ways in terms of how balenciaga and vetements approach design, some of my favorites as well but have plenty of missteps along the way, especially appreciate the extra attention around the whole “woah is me this industries doomed anyways” approach
i never came to this thought process that every brand must have a meaning and something to achieve. honestly i just love him as a designer, but you really changed some views of mine.
It's not that they must, it's just how it is, every artist/designer has some motivation for how and why they're creating what they're creating. It's often not applied to fashion but makes fashion a lot more interesting when you think about these things!
I do that, but I feel like a lot of people don't as much. I still think there are interesting ideas in more mainstream high fashion and Demna is definitely a designer worth discussing and more people will always have an opinion than if I talked about much lesser known designers. Although I do plan to highlight lesser known designers I like in the future.
I'm so glad I found your channel. You're funny, passionate, analytical, have morals/principles and all of this in the name of fashion?? Bravo! Vai cosi! - Love from Naples
I would love a video of Kanye and your views on his influence and recent work with denma.also just want to say been following you on TikTok for ages and I love the longer videos I’ve found you are one of the only fashion creators that can have a non bias and fully researched understanding of the topic
your content is so informative for me trying to learn different points of view on brands and their messaging, very helpful when trying to create informed personal opinions on designers and explore their work, keep it up!
I Love this video, I actually agree that fashion brands now and days trade artistic value for monetization and exposition. But it then loses meaning overtime because it cant relate to someone, I think the best type of brand is a brand that stays true to its nature while also creating and inventing "new things". Because there's nothing new in this world, just a recreation or remix of something that already exist in someway.
RU-vid got it right recommending this video to me. I absolutely agree with everything you said! I am new to fashion but I'm an artist and my medium is the same position as fashion. Accessibility at the expense of meaning and quality is not a good thing. Not everyone's a sell-out, it's just that those people don't get any coverage. Just found your channel and subscribed
For someone from the industry (hi! How are you? I go by Ozzy!) I think this is well put and really appreciate your opinion. I never thought of it this way (I don't follow high fashion designers anymore because it is all for profit and there is so much issues with them) and is so refreshing to hear!! You got yourself a new subscriber and can't wait to see more of your commentary. Working in the fashion industry for 10 years and we need opinions and thoughts like this. Thank you!!!!
great video, super on point, refreshing to hear. i too really enjoyed the irony and thought Demna was incredibly genius, but lately i've just been bored with it all - wish things would get more spiritual and grandiose feeling, so i really enjoyed a take really excellently articulated about wanting to abandon the nihilistic perspective and irony in hopes for something, well, new. thanks for that. however, i would like to respectfully disagree on one of the points you made, if that's chill. you made an excellent and obviously true point about big houses hiring up and coming, hot designers as creative directors. these big houses will always do such to stay relevant and hot, but the believer in me has me thinking there's more to it than just that. i think such a hiring is a marker for the house's future, a new direction, a new era, and also is such a collaboration with the mind, who takes into consideration the house's legacy - aesthetic, fabrics used, tailoring, message - and tries to add to it. the fashion industry can obvi get gossipy and weird, but when i actually appreciate the lore, i can look past the capitalism of it and really just look at these shows and collections as high art, on a giant capitalist stage, as oppose to capitalist products wrapped with an artistic bow. for example - you stated at the beginning of the video, Margiela did the only Hermes collection you cared about (same tbh, though i havent seen all, but ew why would i) and it was unlock anything he'd ever done. Galliano at Margiela, I believe, was controversial but such an interesting moment for the fashion world, and while it's different, it's my opinion that he's furthering the house's legacy in innovative ways. also look at such differences from Galliano at Dior, or Heidi, or Kim Jones, or Kris Van Assche, or Raf, etc. It doesn't seem as much an attempt to capitalize as it does to bring freshness to a house. In regards to Demna, I vaguely remember friends saying it was such an odd, risky hiring, as Balenciaga was always couture and tailor heavy, but was struggling and desperate for a revival and direction, to which, to your point, it was dope but perhaps now beaten to death. Lastly, while, sure the bag retrieved, there's a multitude of reasons a designer would go to a bigger house to creative direct, if given full control, to fuse their ideas for the house while adding their true touch. obviously, the challenge, the access to materials/budget, the press, and, perhaps most of all, as a friend of mine who went to direct at Helmut stated, to learn. but anyway, its too often we see vids being hyper critical of a designers work without the sentiment of message, or, in contrast, the can-do-no-wrong praise when the message is interesting, but hasn't changed in nearly a decade. best~
Fashion critique is like a lost art imo. So many fashion youtuber try to educate but getting lost in the information i.e. Bliss Foster. Your channel is such a breath of fresh air. Beside great perspectives, you trigger such a meaningful discussion in the comment section. Great stuff, keep doing what you doing!
I don’t usually comment which shows how good this video was :) though I do disagree with the ‘democratisation of fashion’ being a bad thing. Hype beast culture spreading to high fashion was inevitable, but that’s not really ‘democratisation’. My interpretation of democratisation is how it is easier to become a designer through social media, as well as designers who are industry giants publishing more information (like Rick Owens publishing his show notes). This definitely makes high fashion less exclusive, but in my opinion, high fashion is not where the future of the industry is. I encourage you to look into the london design collective fantastic toiles if you don’t know them already. It’s somewhat anti-luxury, and may interest you due to their lack of selling out and treating fashion instead like art pieces (being 1 of 1 in design and fabrics). I look forward to more videos :))
Thanks for the support! There's definitely pros and cons to it and I think what you're saying is absolutely correct. I have not heard of fantastic toiles I'll check them out.
Great video as always! I was wondering if you could do a video on the significance of Margiela? I'm coming from the music field but more and more (through your videos) my creativity has been inspired by fashion despite how pretentious and exclusive I find it. Keep it up!
Full disclosure, haven’t watched the full video cuz I have to run to work haha, but calling Virgil a money maker is a pretty huge understatement. Say what you will about his design style, and of course there are big problems with the general hype beast culture, but Virgil used the resources of fashion houses like LV to make clothes that real people (including a lot of people of color) actually wear day to day. Now, of course most people can’t afford to casually purchase Off-White dunks or LV varsity jackets, but Virgil’s willingness to embrace street style especially from the perspective of a black man from Chicago really helped to break down the Ivory Tower of high fashion, at least in my opinion. I think in general it’s really hard to make an argument that fashion, or any given art form is becoming diluted, because anytime you look at the history of art you get old elites telling younger people that they are ruining their craft. Yeah, design languages and subcultures have become homogenized thanks to things like the Internet and Virgil. But I dunno, to me there’s a beauty in that that’s lost when high fashion is left to the arcane wizardry of elite designers that alienate most casual people (especially when the vast majority of those elite designers and consumers are white and incredibly wealthy). Neither option is better than the other, just different paths. Lovely video though, will finish it when I get back to the house!
I appreciate your thoughts! this video wasn't about Virgil I just thought he was relevant to the point I was making, I plan to make a full video talking about him. I see where you're coming from and I do have an appreciation for Virgil! I've been getting other comments about him so I think I will save my thoughts for the video on him!
Great video and I think I agree a lot of the time. Demna’s Balenciaga early on didn’t really feel like a consumer product (from my perspective) and rather a poignant thing that maybe you weren’t even supposed to buy and if you were buying it you were ‘falling for it’ but the Adidas and Facebook collaborations and the usage of the stock exchange are just starting to feel unusual and maybe a tad out of touch. I can’t quite put my finger on why but a lot of the points in this video are definitely part of it. Thank you very much for a great video, excited to see the next.
I agree although I wasn't a huge fan of vetements I had a much greater appreciation for its unique position in fashion at the time but I feel like that has been lost
I really agree with the whole point of “diluting high fashion.” Like as someone who really appreciates designer and looks deeper than just the brands logo, its really painful to go and see some tik toker filming a stupid prank video in some thousand dollar balenciaga hoodie. I just feel its really upsetting when designers are almost purposefully setting themselves up to become less about the design and more about the revenue that comes with the brand.
I feel like there’s a place for irony and sarcasm within high fashion. The nihilistic and ironic style has been used in many art forms, I think we should me open to it, especially if it’s purposeful and well conceptualised.
I agree and while it wouldn't be my favourite idea in general, I think that Vetements did a decent job with it when they first came out with it however I've grown disenchanted with the idea and it no longer holds the same message in the current context to me.
The comment about sustainability really resonated with me and i agree with you. I'm a retired architect and sustainability is an issue as well in architecture. Buildings being one of the biggest pollutants on earth, not only in constructing a building but also maintaining it. Anyways, its funny how there is a lot of virtue signaling in both design fields. One brand i do like and i think does sustainability well is Patagonia. They are def not making Balenciaga money but they do stick behind their cause about saving the planet. I think an honest statement they make is that they know that they are unsustainable as a clothing company and their efforts are to become more sustainable by exploring and creating pieces that both resonate with the community of outdoors enthusiasts as well as creating mores sustainable materials and means of production.
I covered fashion in Paris in the ‘80s & 90s It was a time of immense creativity and talent. The designers put creativity first and if they made money, all the better. It was probably one of the few real Golden ages of fashion. In contrast, I am very disappointed in how the industry has evolved strictly into money making machines. I am aligned with your observations. I am impressed that at your young age, you have figured out so much on your own. PS. What we see on a catwalk is often rooted in those 6 or so big schools specializing in fashion education. Would love to hear your commentary on that subject.
You said you dont like the big luxury brands and I think anyone that has a genuine interest in fashion can easily feel like that. The brands dont really sell their original brand identity anymore, they havent for a while. Its all about who is the head of the brand, selling what *they* do, not what the brand does. Using your example of Virgil, Lee McQ, Galliano etc. What that means is that for most of these brands, the very expensive brands are essentally very expensive diffusion lines, no wonder we arent interested much 🤷
That's a good way to put it, I honestly believe that once the main designer is done with their brand there is nothing wrong with simply ending it but obviously that's where money comes in and ruins everything. It's not all bad obviously but I'm more interested in new ideas not rehashing older ones.
I completely agree about how annoying it is that new designers are always poached by bigger brands. It sucks seeing someone on the come up just for them to end up at dior or something. W vid keep it up
Great message. Sure makes you think why we are promoting these brands. Especially now in the light of their latest campaign thats horrific. It does raise questions on social issues that these “luxury” brands dont give a f***k about.
Feels like watching a pewdiepie video. Jokes aside, thanks for telling me about denma. Didnt know he made vetements. What i love about vetements and balencia are they meme worthy ironic fashion designs, but if you dont help to the change the fashion for the better then whats the point, like what you said. Great video
The most important thing at Vetements and Balenciaga is the styling, this is why the stylist Lotta Volkova is so elemental to these brands. Its the mixture of different types of clothing that usually do not go together within the same look, like bdsm with athleisure, that make it modern, avant gard and subvert the traditional ways of dressing. This came from Gvasalia growing up in a post soviet country where people could only access limited and traditional clothing, and the post soviet subcultures that inspired Gvasalia's work used the mixture of different styles of clothes as an act of rebellion
Yeah virgil is a money maker but look at Louis Vuitton shows for menswear in previous eras and look at the zainy childish and playful Louis Vuitton that is present today. And also watch an off white show there is a lot of creativity and ability within virgil and I don’t think he should have been merely lumped in to the money makers category because yes he makes money but he is extremely important in the official narrative and lore of fashion especially for young black people. He is the first “high fashion” creative director who had an Afro-centric and Afro-American centric view to fashion. I know this is not exactly that deep and that this was not the point but it did kind of irk me that virgil was merely cast into the money maker pile along with Kim jones. 🙏🏽also great video and I subscribed🙏🏽
Well I think that that was a major aspect that I didn't like about Virgil. Everything else you said is true obviously there is more to him, I just felt that he was relevant to the point I was making. I plan to make a video on him in the future and properly analyse his career and impact. I think he is a part of the money making designer group like Kim Jones but there is definitely more to him than Kim Jones. I appreciate your comment, thanks!
“Fashion people” forget that this is all business, money making isnt inherently bad. If anything being able to make money while doing something new is the mark of genius and what most designers aim to do. Virgil is largely dismissed by “certain crowds” of fashion because he brought a way of dress to high fashion that they were traditionally dismissive of.
@@12Arrancar I agree, and it is sometimes hard for me to separate but I try to. I'll keep my opinions on Virgil for my video but I think there is no way his impact should be dismissed.
@@fashionlover4 I personally have never liked anything Virgil Abloh had ever done and it was so refreshing to see a fashion RU-vidr not constantly slob on his knob lol
I personally like a fair bit of Balenciagas designs I just don’t like that this is what high fashion is now. Literally just what me and the other povo kids got from op shops and donation bins but a little bit stretched and warped, few extra pockets and platform soles. When I was a kid I’d leaf through old magazines looking at the designs, regal and otherworldly and luxurious, with fabrics I’d never seen in real life making shapes you couldn’t try to imagine. Now it’s just hypebeasts in 900 dollar hoodies and quirked up sneakers that they can’t style and look terrible on them bc the most experimental thing they’ve ever worn was their mums nightie when they were playing dress up as kids.
Great video. I agree with you for the most part. Ans in my opinion. McQueen was the last of the big designers who didn’t sell out. He hated his stint at givenchy with a passion because he felt like they were putting restraints on his creativity that’s why in the end. He was just designing his own line. I guess. I like your take on the whole industry. The only thing is. I wish u would slow down your wording But keep on doing your thing. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
honestly, I don't think you're overly idealistic. it's honestly nice to see that Gen Z creators tend to be more conscious that millennials, many of whom seem to have completely internalised late capitalism driven by consumption or the 'ironic' response to it. Also, v true about Demna... I also liked early Vetements, but the meaning has become deflated with Balenciaga. also, cool to know that you're from Ukraine originally! My grandad's family are from there.
Ironic that high fashion would take a jab at capitalism because all of there clients are people who played the capitalism game right and are winning so they can spend thousands of dollars on Gucci or whatever else.
I disagree with most of the things you said (in multiple videos) but I respect you for actually taking the time to articulate your ideas and I admire how you built this small yet really strong community of ppl who actually think before commenting
Demna started out really strong with his first Balenciaga collections (Women's FW16 and Mens SS17); you could tell he was really trying to put on his big-boy pants on and do justice to this historic couture house by trying to create a good mix between the heritage and his aesthetic (streetwear, utilitarian and uniformistic designs with couture-eque silhouettes) - it seemed like Kering gave him full creative freedom to remake the brands image at the beginning and as time went on they began exacting more control over the collections and told him what to make based on what sold best. And so the collections are becoming more basic and watered down - even the few shock-tactic gimmicks for press he does for every show are getting tired (and the elaborate sets don't help a lot either). FW20 was the last solid Balenciaga show - right before the pandemic
also additionnal refs about postmodern irony i would reccomand frederic jameson's writings on depthlessness in pomo and adam curtis documentary on vladislav surkov
