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The Roots of Your Profits - Dr Elaine Ingham, Soil Microbiologist, Founder of Soil Foodweb Inc 

Oxford Real Farming
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You can see Elaine's slides here: docs.google.com/presentation/...

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24 янв 2015

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Комментарии : 333   
@renzoohm6844
@renzoohm6844 Год назад
Protect dr Elaine at all costs !!! 💙💯🌹
@narendrajoshi790
@narendrajoshi790 5 месяцев назад
Great clarity and thorough knowledge with extremely good teaching techniques Thanks
@ohoiboi9818
@ohoiboi9818 8 месяцев назад
understanding something completely as an individual means they are able to explain it simply. That's real knowledge.... She knows what she's talking about
@myhanslombard
@myhanslombard 5 лет назад
My yield went up 85% in 14 months(bananas). This is the best way of farming.
@saamokari2356
@saamokari2356 4 года назад
Awesome 🌱
@magicsupamoggie
@magicsupamoggie 4 года назад
Thanks for the feedback Hans.
@keelymunoz6960
@keelymunoz6960 3 года назад
Thank you for the feedback. Her classes are so expensive but I really want to take them. Hearing someone say it works makes me want to spend the money.
@johnman559
@johnman559 8 месяцев назад
Hydroponics, much bigger yield no critters required, let that sink in.
@gtavtheavengergunnerlegend3340
@gtavtheavengergunnerlegend3340 2 года назад
I've watched a lot of videos, hundreds and this is the most beneficial I've ever seen. Wish I would have seen it years ago.
@richardhogg8842
@richardhogg8842 10 месяцев назад
I wish I known all this in 1970 when I started farming , after a few years I suspected that the weren't telling the rel truth, now I will die knowing the truth ! Watch your back !
@thebobthebobanite6287
@thebobthebobanite6287 7 лет назад
I have learned more from an hour of this lecture than the thousands of organic gardening/farming videos and books I've consumed.
@IvanPavlov007
@IvanPavlov007 3 года назад
Yeah this is mindblowing. I've been binging organic/regenerative agriculture content for almost a year but this just drove it home so hard. Basically what I'm starting to see is nature already performs at peak performance, then we get in the way, destroy/control/micromanage and wonder why things aren't working so well. When she pointed out that we don't even need to replenish the nutrients from a harvested tomato - something I still believed - or that there's ZERO relationship between plant tissue nutrient concentration and soil soluble nutrients, my jaw literally dropped.
@justayoutuba5380
@justayoutuba5380 3 года назад
Same
@stratify9704
@stratify9704 3 года назад
Same here, university costs+time and learned a great deal more.
@gtavtheavengergunnerlegend3340
@gtavtheavengergunnerlegend3340 2 года назад
Same here
@TheAdhdGardener
@TheAdhdGardener 2 года назад
Same! This is the building block information we need for our gardens🌻
@Horse237
@Horse237 6 лет назад
I have been studying for some time and still this woman amazes me. I nominate her as one of the most important female thinkers and doers of the modern world. We need to propagate these ideas and practices.
@mmccrownus2406
@mmccrownus2406 4 года назад
SuperDukka U have d lot of true points but mostly just materialistic unstudied ideas
@Horse237
@Horse237 4 года назад
@@mmccrownus2406 Buzz off. Have you read the Critique of Pure Reason?
@happinessyogateacher
@happinessyogateacher 2 года назад
Sounds great! Bridging the gap between academic and practical world. Translation into real world will help get principles utilized where best effects can grow!
@markwrench6334
@markwrench6334 3 года назад
1:12:13 love the way she checked her watch when she said, 'We've got to get this information out to everyone on the planet.'
@CrackFiend101
@CrackFiend101 5 лет назад
This should have a million+ views!!
@saamokari2356
@saamokari2356 4 года назад
Agreed. And commented, just so that the algorythms start promoting these vids 🌱
@Chief5868
@Chief5868 8 лет назад
Preach it Doc! I'm 58, entering my Junior year at Penn State for a B.S in Biology because this lady spurred me to do confirming research to the point where I could not decipher the documents. My backyard is my lab this summer and hope to demonstrate this paradigm to my cousin's lawn care customers.
@Horse237
@Horse237 7 лет назад
This is my first Elaine Ingham video. Do her methods work with greenhouses and raised beds? I think she is the best teacher available.
@TheGrasspond
@TheGrasspond 7 лет назад
How about that. I am 58 finishing an MS in natural resource mgt at SUNY ESF up in Syracuse. Great to know there is someone else out there my age doing this!
@svetlanikolova5557
@svetlanikolova5557 7 лет назад
+Horse237 Yes! if you put your plants on the ground. Or your raised beds are bottomless!
@northavealum
@northavealum 4 года назад
I'd be very interested to know the results of your backyard lab experience and the reaction from your cousin's lawn care customers. I'm interested in Dr. Elaine Ingham teachings for agricultural purposes - but also for my front lawn (which has degraded over time and no professional lawn care company has provided a satisfactory result for the last 10 years.
@krustysurfer
@krustysurfer 4 года назад
@@Horse237 Sure do
@Littleking1985
@Littleking1985 2 года назад
I said for years you don't grow the planet you grow the soil. I thought I knew what I was saying until I found Dr. Ingham. She really showed me I didn't even know the half of it. Brilliant woman I'm glade I found out about her now I'm binge-watching every video I can find.
@TMillz420x
@TMillz420x 4 года назад
I can tell she knows what she's talking about, alot of valuable knowledge here for amateur growers like myself
@Andre-et5nu
@Andre-et5nu 5 лет назад
I'm grateful for our God given abilities to discern the wonders of this world. This lecture blew my mind. Thank you!
@randalmoroski1184
@randalmoroski1184 6 месяцев назад
The evolutionism doctrine is all throughout, but it is Still God given..! Lol PTL.
@NthGbsn30
@NthGbsn30 2 месяца назад
WOOOOWWWW now I’m hooked on this woman!!! Oh & they’ve most definitely silence & blackballed her content!
@Jotanna7
@Jotanna7 7 лет назад
Oh my gosh!! Found my new teacher!!!!!!!!! Soo much thanks!!!
@amendfuse4276
@amendfuse4276 4 года назад
The number of times I’ve rewatched this...thank you many times over for posting this!
@capeguy
@capeguy 9 лет назад
Amazing lecture...discovering how bacteria, fungus, beneficial nematodes and plant relationships work finished the pieces of the puzzle for me.
@marijasoln
@marijasoln 6 лет назад
Thank you Mrs. Dr. Elaine Ingham. I am grateful you for your work and I think that the soil on the planet Earth too
@donnabrown1518
@donnabrown1518 4 года назад
I always wondered why the first year I grew a garden in a specific spot the plants didn't produce like I would like them to. Every year after that, the soil and the plant life on that soil improved and now I understand why. It was the organic systems that I put into place that allowed the micro-organisms to thrive.
@jsmyth024
@jsmyth024 5 лет назад
Anyone who found this exciting and interesting would probably LOVE the work of Paul Stamets. Mycology and Soil foodweb for the win! Edit: Also this! The studies done on sterile mice(without a gut biome) are really thought provoking. A channel called "What I learned" is one of the best on the tube, afaic.
@addthis1203
@addthis1203 10 месяцев назад
Thank you Ma’am Elaine Ingham
@glockasauruswrex6362
@glockasauruswrex6362 3 года назад
Wow...mind BLOWN🤯 I want to thank Dr Ingham for her insight into this. I need to dive deeper into this, imma 1st time gardener and going from Miracle-Gro potting soil to building my own living soil, making compost n eventually vermi-compost is quite the journey! I shall endeavor to persevere 😉
@PDXMILO
@PDXMILO 5 лет назад
She aint kidding about OSU and Monsanto! I took a class about gmo's and chemicals in ag there and it was a long commercial in pro gmo and synthetic chemical propaganda. Luckily they actually had some organic ag and permaculture offerings there too.
@bernardlively6321
@bernardlively6321 4 года назад
This woman should have a V.I.P. suite @ the FDA!
@johndillon7565
@johndillon7565 6 лет назад
We need more experts like this lady in government.
@saamokari2356
@saamokari2356 4 года назад
Everybody needs to be educated on this. I have been to high school and have never heard of this. Sad. For us to have a legitimate concersation in a democracy and to take good decisions, we need to know how theese things work 🌱
@loyal2dasoilmedicalgrow62
@loyal2dasoilmedicalgrow62 4 года назад
Aloha I love it the knowledge is real and I can relate ..I live in Kauai and we suffer the same “dirt” issue here on island and I’ve took the time to educate my self about soil and I love what you teach and your approach on it would love to see some organization here to deliver the same message throughout the island....much love and aloha
@svetlanikolova5557
@svetlanikolova5557 7 лет назад
The only thing I bought is organic hormone and deworming meds free horse fertilizer with more red wigglers, that i can ever dream of. This lady is absolutely amazing. She is my Garden and soil college. Thank you for putting this video up. You should translate it in all available languages and teach people to save our planet! Thank you and blessings from Bulgaria! PS. You just saved me a ton of money and time as well. God bless you!
@Jefferdaughter
@Jefferdaughter 5 лет назад
Finally, in the USA some horse owners are learning to ignore the advice from the chemicals companies and veterinarians to de-worm their horses every 6 weeks. Or 4 times a year - all without running fecal tests. Before WWII, more people knew how to manage their animals and land to keep both healthy. For example, horses and cattle were often co-grazed or rotated to each other's pastures. With different grazing patterns and acting as deadend hosts for each other's parasites, there were advantages for the pasture and the animals. Never heard of hormones being used routinely in horses, but sadly they often are in both beef and dairy cattle.
@xxpowwowbluexx
@xxpowwowbluexx 4 года назад
In another presentation she mentions how deworming medications are sterilizers, killing hosts of beneficial biology. Don’t use them.
@xxpowwowbluexx
@xxpowwowbluexx 4 года назад
I believe it was this one. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-69sR8opXd8w.html
@qualqui
@qualqui 9 лет назад
Very interesting talk by Dr. Elaine Ingham, thumbs up and thanks for sharing!
@ryanalexander3088
@ryanalexander3088 7 лет назад
Christ, what a woman! I'm in awe
@addthis1203
@addthis1203 10 месяцев назад
Best lecture on organic farming
@enigmatum100
@enigmatum100 4 года назад
2020 and this is still amazing.
@NthGbsn30
@NthGbsn30 2 месяца назад
2024 & I’m over here with my mouth hanging open! I already fell for most of the scams she mentioned. I got here because I’m new to composting & AJW.
@user-co4iu5go9x
@user-co4iu5go9x 4 месяца назад
GOOD MORNING 🌄 DR ELAINE THANK YOU MAKING ME UNDERSTAND SOIL/ DIRT.. I MADE SO MUCH F UP'S .. NEW INDOOR GROWER EXPERIMENTING... YOUR A WONDERFUL AND UNDERSTANDING DR
@nkeirukaegboka9557
@nkeirukaegboka9557 2 года назад
Amazing teacher! Very insightful! Thanks for sharing this knowledge.
@thomasbudi2000
@thomasbudi2000 8 лет назад
Thank you, this is a wonderful teaching. I learned a lot.
@katarzynabellingham3991
@katarzynabellingham3991 3 года назад
amazing, i'm so lucky to find it here. well done!!!
@GarethEvans
@GarethEvans 9 лет назад
I learn something new every day, what I was doing was not working.
@benbridges552
@benbridges552 9 лет назад
Thank you all involved for sharing such wisdom!
@MyVegetablePatch
@MyVegetablePatch 9 лет назад
Thank you Dr Ingham. Fantastic information. Hope to learn from you in the live seminar in Australia :-)
@NS-pf2zc
@NS-pf2zc 7 лет назад
She fascinates me every time! just incredible information!
@rolandocimafranca2414
@rolandocimafranca2414 5 месяцев назад
i am a Filipino Forester glad to encountered this video in youtube.
@carbrock.2854
@carbrock.2854 5 лет назад
It's refreshing to hear that all the mineral plants need are in the soil, that it's just a matter of building the microbiology of the soil to make those minerals bioavailable to plants, but there's not much practical information here beyond "making and adding compost". No talk about cover crops in order to continue feeding the microbiology. She still makes it sound complicated, like only her company knows the proper mechanics of improving the soil, but I guess that's how she makes her money.
@mmccrownus2406
@mmccrownus2406 4 года назад
Agreed. Christine Jones suggests vast results from multi species cover crops as solution
@eddluireg
@eddluireg 2 года назад
Best condensed video ! Thank you
@anhkimphan514
@anhkimphan514 3 года назад
Thank you so much for your knowledge. I have learn so much about soil microbiology in this lecture.
@IanClelanduiwgroup
@IanClelanduiwgroup 9 лет назад
It is pity the video make more reference to what was on the screen so we could have seen what was being spoken about. Other than that it was great
@tdtrecordsmusic
@tdtrecordsmusic 3 года назад
She is right. My family tends to a property which has plenty of untouched area. It's in a desert area & the only places where there is dirt is the thin animal trails + the places where cars/people go. The rest of the natural Earth is COVERED. When hiking, the ground cover is usually as tall as your boots with a fluffy mass of falling twigs which are about chest high. The plants are basically taller than a man. Wheat / barely / oats also cover the hills as tall as they can grow... all without ANY touch from man. It's all clay .. any place where there are no plants the dirt turns as hard as cement.
@mattolsson8816
@mattolsson8816 9 лет назад
Fantastic!! Thanks for sharing
@sifu9683
@sifu9683 3 года назад
Very nice...never too late to learn and apply.
@cochranetreecare5360
@cochranetreecare5360 4 года назад
Thanks Elaine. Great video
@ryghnesnigel7082
@ryghnesnigel7082 6 лет назад
keep this coming please, thank you so much.
@zuluber8923
@zuluber8923 3 года назад
Enlightening lecture..thanks alot Dr Elaine
@magicsupamoggie
@magicsupamoggie 4 года назад
More-on Farmer! Love it!
@nw5767
@nw5767 3 года назад
You are a Rockstar! Love it
@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951
@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951 2 года назад
Dr. Elaine is super!!!!!
@suhasyadav12121
@suhasyadav12121 4 года назад
Thank you madam for the wonderful info
@zentimental4988
@zentimental4988 3 года назад
every living being in my garden thanks you for sharing this, heartfelt crucial information. i'm brewing compost tea's like a madman, throwing around endo and ecto mycorrhiza, bonemeal, bloodmeal, guano, organic bloom-stimulaters!! please Elaine we need more of your knowledge spread far and wide. wow incredible lecture. the simplicity is even so we could teach this to kids in school no problem
@bays19
@bays19 8 лет назад
One of the best video Ive seen on the tube!!!
@user-hs3my9sp9o
@user-hs3my9sp9o 6 месяцев назад
When talking about removal of nutrients remember we grow carbohydrates. They are 47% C 43% O 4% H 3%N. That is 97% of the elements in food come from the air around us.
@debrarivera6016
@debrarivera6016 7 месяцев назад
Fantastic. More more more
@emilkermendy4595
@emilkermendy4595 6 лет назад
I love all Dr E. Ingham's presentations and the didactic and fun way to explain recently discovered microBiology fuctioning of soil. Particularly, in this video at 15:12 to 15:20 she states: COMPOST IS NOT A FERTILIZER, IT IS AN INOCULANT. Its brilliant. Now, lets go to practice. We grow wine Grapes and make wine, we learned long ago to make good yeast starter, it work wonderfully, so, applying the same concept, how much comport would be good to apply to a vineyard, supposing its microbiology needs to be improved? (always there is room for improvement). We would appreciate comments.....
@simonmasters3295
@simonmasters3295 2 года назад
I'm answering from first principles but I'd say introduce a mix of native species or desired green cover in 9cm pots...maybe even plugs grown in, or innoculated with, high fungal compost and planted close to the Vine rootstock
@rojilander7212
@rojilander7212 3 года назад
Thank You..Thank You..Thank You... For the volumes of ...Let us not forget the work to analyze all this biology..and perfectly organize all this information for farming educational purpose...Everyone becomes intrugued with a soft close up eye on that zoo of micro dinosaurs hanging out interacting in a somewhat frightening symbiotic manner which plants play a role in gaining nutrients from a natural competition not unlike the wild creatures who walk the land above..including man..Have to watch again with a notebook...
@yoyoav29
@yoyoav29 4 года назад
one sentence that captures all the essence 27:00
@suttonsplash14
@suttonsplash14 6 лет назад
amazing talk!
@rondianderson4402
@rondianderson4402 8 лет назад
The protein secrtion alone is mind blowing, knock your socks off info!
@greenstair
@greenstair 3 года назад
The information is great and massively educational. We do not deserve to be spoken down to because we were taught bad methods however. Please don't be aggressively negative to me, I simply didn't know and that attitude turned me off - we need to, we HAVE to turn people onto this. So please be more understanding of our ignorance, be kinder.
@venkytalla
@venkytalla 9 лет назад
I am disappointed that the video taping was not showing the content on the screen that was being talked about.
@Jefferdaughter
@Jefferdaughter 9 лет назад
Venky Talla A link to the slides Dr. Ingham was refering to is provided in the description immediately below the video.
@xinyuma2244
@xinyuma2244 6 лет назад
I found another version posted last year with the camera changing to the slide whenever she addresses it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PMikVOrE7LI.html . Re-enjoy! :)
@sakispap5542
@sakispap5542 5 лет назад
32:20 this is serious, this NEEDS to be done soon! Enough is enough... Sorry about my frustration, what a great video!!
@hudson8865
@hudson8865 2 года назад
Thank you very much.
@kenyattagrows4215
@kenyattagrows4215 3 года назад
Great lecture
@myfitstoreuk5608
@myfitstoreuk5608 Год назад
What an enlightnig video!
@andepenn71
@andepenn71 5 лет назад
Wonderful!!...
@alpaycan76
@alpaycan76 7 лет назад
i wish i could see where she was pointing on screen...
@AmarSingh-hn3lj
@AmarSingh-hn3lj 7 месяцев назад
Hi Thanks for the great information Very informative 👌
@TellyTabs
@TellyTabs 6 лет назад
There are 300 million people with hearing loss worldwide. Please subtitle your videos! Closed captions (CC) are rubbish so don't rely on that. Thank you!
@vasaoz
@vasaoz 6 лет назад
love it
@manjushreetsl2531
@manjushreetsl2531 4 года назад
Thank you.
@tobywaka12
@tobywaka12 8 лет назад
WOW
@jonathanfriedlander8563
@jonathanfriedlander8563 Месяц назад
A Ruldolf Steiner reincarnation! The modern era father of biodynamics since 1924 . And still practiced today by many .
@krustysurfer
@krustysurfer 5 лет назад
Amazing! Makes the most LOGICAL Sense! I am from the Pac N.W..... Surfing out on the peninsula, the smell in the temperate rainforest, that humic fulvic acid in the air, so cathartic, so healing..... Duplicate that biosphere and most problems disappear with farming... Food forests make the most sense, let life colonize and reap the bounty as we say thank you as we apply uric acid wherever we roam..... Fungus it is... You have won my heart and mind! Aloha and thank you for your hard work.
@billlumberg5746
@billlumberg5746 Год назад
Great video Elaie is brilliant thanks. Wish we could see the screen and bacteria to fugi ratios.
@guloguloguy
@guloguloguy Год назад
Thank you, Very Much, for this sobering talk, about the importance of building soil biology!!! What might be the best approach, to restoring any degraded parcel of land, especially small, residential, rural property, that has been planted largely, to "turf grass". I suspect that it would be best to start by planting as many "pioneer species" of trees, shrubs, and wildflowers, sedges, grasses, rushes, etc., whatever is locally "NATIVE", and, that will help send deep roots into the ground, and to save, and compost as much of the duff, and leaf litter, and to compost that, and distribute it around the trees, and shrubs, primarily, and to keep trying to introduce more and more plant species, until you have the maximum diversity possible, depending on the amount or Sun light, water, and temperatures.... Can you recommend any concise guides on "soil microscopy"?!...
@katipohl2431
@katipohl2431 3 года назад
#Algae are living in soils as well and Dr. ÖSTERREICHER researched about algae as indicators of soil health. The role of viruses and archae (a newly discovered biologic kingdom) in soil is also under research.
@joeschaar22
@joeschaar22 5 лет назад
If humans don’t recycle our waste back into our agriculture we build up a huge mass of energy in waste water treatment with chemicals. Until waste is cycled in too, we always exporting nutrients and not getting them back.
@raiquenruggieriramil1562
@raiquenruggieriramil1562 Год назад
Gracias
@soilcreepsandgardengeeks71
@soilcreepsandgardengeeks71 5 лет назад
I've learned of and completely sold and empassioned by this. A quick question: people assume that microbial activity doesn't begin until soil temps are at around 55 degrees. While I'm sure it's true that the activity gets ramped up as temperatures warm would I be correct in assuming that soil biology is active you're around. If while I'm sure it's true that the activity gets ramped up as temperatures warm would I be correct in assuming that soil biology is active year-round. If true so, what kind of activity is being carried out in winter months etc.
@garthwunsch
@garthwunsch 3 года назад
I don’t know how much life process goes on in very cold soil, but I do believe there’s a lot. My mulch decomposes over winter under the snow, of which we get a lot in central Ontario. Youngsang Cho of JADAM Organic Farming (book and RU-vid) says it’s important to culture microbes at the ambinet temperature of the garden. Big Ag marketers sell single microbial cultures that are to be cultivated at temperatures much higher than soils normally get... unless you’re in a hot desert. Those microbes will die (along with your bank account) when applied to a cool soil. Cho teaches how to grow the microbes for pennies.
@manasikashyap
@manasikashyap 5 лет назад
Life changing stuff here. Can anyone recommend a soil microbiologist who has published on the direct impact of fungal ratios in the soil on plant diseases & pests?
@ABplusOriginal
@ABplusOriginal 2 года назад
Teaming with fungi.
@ABplusOriginal
@ABplusOriginal 2 года назад
Harley Smith
@njbjr1
@njbjr1 5 лет назад
GREAT
@jojobowers1
@jojobowers1 4 года назад
*Throw this chart out the window*. Legend.
@olgac8211
@olgac8211 3 года назад
Some parts of the information I found quite new as I am working on Case Study to address the setbacks of the Green Revolution. I then referred to google scholar and my Ecology Book on symbiosis. I did find it a bit extreme. We do need certain amount of tools, including vertical hydroponics, drip irrigation, greenhouses, etc. However, being extreme is the problem. Farmer suicide from Bt cotton is a problem of such extreme when the Green Revolution came to India in the 1990's. I did notice that such ideas are not equally affordable for individuals, particularly, in Low Middle Income countries and rural communities.
@elHippieSupremo
@elHippieSupremo 9 лет назад
1:06:53 an interesting bit of information. Old Growth Forest.
@sariihover4798
@sariihover4798 5 месяцев назад
I wish I knew this video once it is uploaded
@sunkissedfamlyfarm2076
@sunkissedfamlyfarm2076 4 года назад
Thank uou
@halsteward1003
@halsteward1003 6 лет назад
Could you please do a speech on Biochar mixtures.
@senguttuvanvelayutham5125
@senguttuvanvelayutham5125 4 года назад
Great
@charliemcgriff7643
@charliemcgriff7643 5 лет назад
Hey I enjoy your program have you ever come to florida teaching seminars
@raythomas1734
@raythomas1734 Год назад
Very, very interesting! I'm trying to make a large compost pile using wood chips, 3 types of manure, leaves, grass, hay and straw looking to brew organic tea. I need help. I want to use it my greenhouses and crops in fields. Thank you Raymond Thomas
@meh4164
@meh4164 4 года назад
Thanks for sharing. Do you have the Thursday and Friday session videos?
@ralphishere5756
@ralphishere5756 2 года назад
More on . 🌲👽🌲
@Reciprocity_Soils
@Reciprocity_Soils 5 лет назад
For food waste composting, could I layer it out on a wide area of ground? I would like to remediate the soil in a large unused plot of land. Following nature in this way, will it biodegrade into useful organic matter for a future large garden?
@DarinHibbs1
@DarinHibbs1 5 лет назад
Wisdom...
@eatrightfully
@eatrightfully 7 лет назад
One thing I forgot below, sugar is a simple carbohydrate and if your using flour you are putting proteins into your recipe. And did you know that plants provide all the nutrients you need in the right proportions with a general selection. And that proteins are made from amino acids and that we can get all that we need from plants contrary to quoted opinion.
@olgac8211
@olgac8211 3 года назад
It is not only proteins we need. Probiotics, Vitamin B12, certain people do not have agriculture to depend on 100 %. Animals and humans had been in balanced coexistence for centuries.
@Lazmanian
@Lazmanian 2 года назад
@@olgac8211 we can still benefit from their services without deceiving the relationship and exploiting or slaughtering them
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