Thanks for the review, it helps a lot. Brompton no stock, not open for sales for FY2021 and older bikes are overpriced. The camp royale looks pretty decent as a substitute and will be reviewing it personally.
Good insights. After testing out both the brompton at funan and royale at mobot myself. To summarise and conclude, I would say, brompton is a nokia, royale is a samsung. The royale got integrated rear light and detachable pedal. This is my personal opinion.
Really enjoyed this review Jamie! Wish this video came out 2 weeks earlier! I got a Dahon Boardwalk D7 recently. It rides well but I absolutely detest the folding process and the fact that it's really hard to move around when in the folded position.
@@lolaokhrana couldn't agree more. It is way overpriced and over rated!!! I owned a Brompton actually. And these clones really make my Brompton look really silly lol. To be frank, I have done some research and I decide to get myself a Camp or Pikes too... lol
I had one of these and I have sold it. There are fundamental differences which you didn’t address 1) seatpost and seatclamp. Build quality and clamping action is far less smooth operation due to inner sleeve being metal compared to Brompton’s nylon. 2) brake cables were not trim perfectly with too much excess 3) the frame and stem hinge doesn’t seem to be as smooth as Brompton The rest would be pretty similar considering it is a clone. Of course for the price, you will expect difference and beg to differ. For first time owner, wouldn’t be able to tell any difference. For me, on the other hand, camp or pikes allowed me to appreciate my brompton better and thus no more clones for me.
Talk about brompton. Some users say the brake levels are more human egromics. I don see how much imporove. If so improve most bikes will hav similar adjustment. Then with a brompton you have to bring it all along. You cannot hold on to a tray of food if you wan to push a brompton altogether.
Personally, I'm looking forward to when the 3sixtybikes, Pikes and now this, are coming to the USA. If something is 80% as good for much less, I'm good with that.
I own a Brompton Ti. Good to see new small folder coming into the scene. It will increase small folder riders and push for more innovation. Great review.
Good video, its a folding bicycle and one of many made. I enjoyed the comments also, so much emotion. Makes me wonder what the first evolved man ranted about when he learnt to walk to others.
My wife wanted a Brompton but I wasn't sure she would maintain her interest in cycling ... I wasn't ready to buy a Brompton and have it ending up a white elephant ... coincidentally, she said let's go see the Camp Royale on the day u uploaded this vid (1st time I am seeing today) and after seeing it, she bought it (she got the last pc in "gold") and she is happy with it .... Thanks Jamie for the very informative vid!
In carousell, similar bike called 3sitxy sells for about $850 to $900. If you go aliexpress and taobao, there are more such bikes...they are a quarter the price of brompton.
Basically, there are 2 manufacturers: 3sixty and PIKES, the rest are just rebranded versions of one of them. Overall, PIKES is a little bit better than 3sixty.
Brompton are high quality made products from western country. Thats what I know and these birdy or campwheel are just knockoffs..!! Making anyone rich within a short timeframe
@@atexnik I think these are overpriced in comparison to a brompton which is manufactured in England and is the original design. Id only pay $150 for this copy
A much awaited review, thanks a lot. Although, I always see an honest review from you but not this time. It does not feel very honest. Can't be without downside as compared to Brompton. The question is, since you own both, if you can only buy one, will u buy camp royale or worth to spend more with brompton? (10yrs of use plan)
Thanks for leaving a comment. Am being totally honest here, it’s an option for someone who doesn’t have the budget. If I had to choose, of course it’s a Brompton or a Birdy:)
so you want jamie to use this bike for 10 years before he posts a review about it? how about all the other bikes he has reviewed, 10 year use case also? c'mon man, be reasonable and take the review in context. if you agree with him, then he's being honest. if you don't agree, then he's dishonest? c'mon...
I am just stating how I feel. I love all Jamie's review, including this one. And I'm glad that he is smart and understand my question. Not like some guy (use 10yrs before review... hahahaha) 🤣
All patents expire! That’s life! Brompton needs to innovate and improve their product to stay fresh. My Brompton is 10 years old and I love it. But if they don’t improve there general product there will be someone ready to knock them down. Competition is important for the consumer to get the best they can afford and keep options open. Thx for the video
@@alexmorgan3435 not if the patent expired. If that was the case no one could have ever built another car after the first car company built theirs! Or build any machine after the first one was built unless the owner of the patent said yes. Example is the use of automatic locking hubs in 4 wheel drives. Jeep had the patent on that for the length of its patent protection. All other manufacturers had to have the driver get out and turn that little knob in the axle at each tire in the front to get the wheels to turn under power. After the patent expired, everyone could use the design. Patents only protect the inventor for so many years set down by law. The issue is countries like China that don’t enforce it so they allow theft of patent rights. But in international law most countries will honor other countries patents. But there are limits and time is one of them. They all expire after a set number of years. When was the last time you saw a 4 wheel drive that you had to get out and lock in at each wheel? Everyone now uses the system of automatic locking hubs that Jeep held the patent for.
I think we must not be so quick to say it was a steal, without actual proof of the seeing the actual patents filed by Brompton. For all you know the judge may have forbided Brompton from filing a patent disallowing any other person from folding their bike frames the same way. The judge might have said such a patent was too discouraging or preventing other competitors from making other suitable folding bikes altogether....Then again Brompton may have been too lazy to file any meaningful patents. Who knows. If patents were filed why aren't there any ongoing clashes and the court cases. No need to be secretive. This is Singapore, and lots of lawyers here to help stand up or sue Mobot..No need for any pretense that Brompton could be holding back..
I think the Brompton fold is worth copying..Because you can really put it in a slightly bigger suitcase and carry with you on the plane as carryon luggage..No need to even check-in your Brompton when you fly...But if you can fold like a Brompton but cannot take the load of an average cyclist, can't ride as well as a Brompton..I would say too bad, go make other bikes that can be ridden ..
I think copying the Brompton is not all bad or disgusting. If folding on the Brompton was the best way to fold a 20" inch wheeled bike frame, and any other way was just too fat, too clumsy etc..etc..and the Brompton really had a patent on its folding action then 10 years ago say, the world will be deprived of neatly folded bikes until such patents expired or when other manufacturers were allowed to manufacture their folding bikes exactly the same way as the Brompton fold..All in all I don't think the Brompton fold is that uncopyable..or patented....
Hey! Hanks for the video! My wife and I are considering these and often refer to your video! We’re convinced but I think the website has the wrong measurements. Can you post the folded measurements for this? It just doesn’t look like it’s 38cm wide…
I wanted get e folder bike but mostly quit expensive and not really e brand or type I like it so much do you have any recommendations? I do have some customer have a folder bike I check price from them they statue about 1k+ u.p. 3k+ onward! And if you push after folding still need band down a bit
Good video Jamie but this is just a Brompton in name only. I am all in favour of innovation but where is it. This is an exact Brompton copy and in my opinion built to take sales from Brompton. Maybe it will force Brompton to innovate ?
Brompton did innovate, that's the very reason other companies make knock off clones of them! They impersonate the Brompton in every detail because the details were superbly researched and implemented. This is just another knock off trying to cash in by replicating the 'Appearance' of a Brompton! If the company were actually any good they would make their own bikes rather than simply pirate copy an existing established brands model.
I don’t think these bikes are taking away sales of Bromptons. You can’t even get one right now because of demand. For one thing, it’s brought out more aftermarket parts and accessories as the popularity of the design has made more demand for those items. As a bicycle mechanic, I’ve worked on Bromptons and I’ve seen these copies. You can tell the difference between the craftsmanship of the hand brazed Brompton frame to the machine tig welding used by these copies. I would like to own a Brompton, but I also like the portability of the design. So I’m getting ready to get an Element Pikes Gen 3 (basically the same bike as the Camp Royale) in the meantime. I have a Biceco by Dahon folding bike that I ride, but it’s a bit more heavier to carry and doesn’t fold as small than the Pikes that I have looked at my friend’s bike shop.
I've been riding this bike for about a month ru-vid.comUgkxwC0IIeIomGQVeBWg-kKJaToZkLEFIA2W and a half now and I think it's fantastic. It helps me get to work on time every day since I'm able to fit it inside of public transportation rush hour. The price is great too, people are always shocked when they ask me how much I paid for the fold up and I tell them "200". It's easy to fold and installation when it ships is insanely easy. All you have to install when the bike arrives is one foot pedal, everything else is done for you. I do recommend you carry some sort of wrench to tighten any loose screws on the handle bar and seat whenever they get a little bit loose. Other than that I think it's a fantastic bike. Easily fits in the home, can fit inside a car trunk and can even fit in subway rush hour.
Thanks for sharing. I got two questions: 1. Is this more heavy or the brompton heavier? 2. Is there a 3 speed internal hub version of this bicycle? I think 3 speed would be much lighter in weight and also less maintenance work required since the gears are internally hidden. Am I correct?
@@jamieohpa oh I see. Okay thanks a lot for your kind reply. I do think that this is surely a very good alternative for people that could afford a brompton. Keep up the good work. Take care and God bless:)
@@lilliansullivan5867 What do you expect from EU. They tend to discriminate against anything British since UK declared themselves out of EU. Look what they've done to Dyson - www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/dyson-eu-court-legal-vacuum-cleaners-energy-luxembourg-ruling-a8623591.html Yes BURN!! At some point EU will burn!
The only reason bikes are considered “expensive” in Singapore is because the rules of what type of bikes are considered safe etc.. are not in-line with the major biking centres, e.g. the Netherlands, or Europe. If you standardise towards European standards then manufacturers can more easily import them to Singapore. Brompton is supposed to be a major brand like Apple iPhones. The more flexible you make the rules for bikes, the more discounted you can buy your bike for. If you can buy a China e-bike, a very mid to top end priced one, you would never bother with Brompton. I absolutely agree, it is light and quickly foldable, but if you want an e-bike, then you need something slightly more heavier and robust which may not fold like a Brompton. I know the market will open towards other brands, like there is an Android phone that works well.. Early days of the iPhone it was impossible to make people consider an alternative..
Re-sale value against a Brompton will be similar to an Android and an iPhone. Plus materials and craftsmanship not really as good Brompton. Also too heavy (although the Brompton is not exactly a lightweight...need to check out a Dahon K3 if you want something easy to carry).
Good review bro.... Especially during this period as most bicycle are getting more expensive & limited in stock compared to before the pandemic period.
More options is more good. A bit of competition will hopefully fuel innovation and lower prices. Even if they are straight up Brompton clones, hopefully it will put pressure on Brompton. Brompton has good build quality, but monopolies always eventually make companies stagnant, lazy, and overpriced. It is an option. You don't have to like it or buy it yourself.The Brompton option will still be there. Some people have different needs/taste/budget and appreciate having other options.
@@jamieohpa Yes I know. I realise that bicycle shops are not really taking orders due to shortage of bicycle parts. The official Brompton store also won't take booking slots till year end. That is terrible. Is the Birdy City 9S easily customisable in terms of adding accessories/bags? What about quality of the bicycle? Thanks!
@@Tekhelet75 hi there, you may go to the sg brompton website. they do have other dealers as well, but you have to give them a call. having an appointment to purchase the bike, i don't find it "terrible" due to stocks limit and high demands; that's quite understandable. honestly, Brompton is worth the value. it can last for decades. my friend has a Brompton that lasts 8 years now and still riding smoothly. mechanism and material made - all smooth and meant to last; see, this is the reason why people are willing to wait to get a bike from Brompton. once you have a feel of it, you'll know what i mean. otherwise just visit the website and there's more info in it!
@@bakerstreet101 With drugs, the pharmaceutical firms are allowed to charge large amounts way in excess of the manufacturing costs in order to recoup their huge research and development costs. Once the patent expires the generic manufacturers have a chance and prices tumble. That is the deal. Without it R&D would not happen. Brompton is different. They are not trying to recoup R&D so much as playing by the rules and manufacturing a quality product in a very expensive location. I wish that more British firms had the same ethos, rather than farming out manufacturing overseas where costs are less and conditions of service for the staff are not so good.
brompton have to improve something... but you have to weigh it, for champ its about 13.5kg, standart bromie 12.5kg, what camp need to do is make the rear triangle and the fork made from titanium and add X suffix behind it and booommmm! M6LX but cheaper hahahahah... but bromie have a really really good craftmanship... you can see from its welds and bromie is like rolls royche of folding bike...imo
I feel sad that people don’t seem to understand patent laws. I feel even sadder that I’m pretty sure that ability to understand those patent laws are way above their head. There is a lot of theft going on with internationally protected patents, this video and it’s subject matter on the other hand is not one of them. When a patent expires, the greater community can utilize, with out recourse, those patents. What a lot of patent holders will do is innovate on the original patent and seek a patent on that innovation. This is not the case here! Now manufacturers can pay to use the Patent protected property and build there own version and that happens all of the time. But once the patent expires, that protected property is the communities general use property. I’m not a lawyer but I can read and do research. The words are my own so if I messed up the legalese, then ok, whatever! To call people names because you don’t agree with them actually reflects on you more then on the person you object too! Not stirring the pot, just trying to get the bubbles out lol
@@bighare4205 There are people accusing camp of illegally copying Brompton products in the comments. Even accusing this video of making money on this accused theft of Intellectual property and that somehow makes this video creator at fault somehow. Just read some of the comments below. Thx.
Since 1 whole month ago, I found out Mobot is not a China company. It is a Singapore origin company. Because it is a Singaporean company, I therefore don't think there was a significant "patent violation" in building a bike that folds like a Brompton. There are sufficient lawyers and people who can read the English language in Singapore. Also Singapore are also very much into studying English law and the idea of patents is nothing new. Also as a Singaporean entrepreneur I would never launch into a manufacturing process if I knew I was needed to go to court straight afterwards to defend my "get rich quick product" without a clear takeoff path of 5 years to make money. I am sure it will be easy to just pay some lawyers to check out the patents filed by Brompton. If parts of Mobot is made in Taiwan or China, then the entrepreneur must be able to speak Mandarin. But because the entrepreneur or his crucial executive team is not from the Mainland, he will be familiar with the law, patents prevailing outside of China and would NOT be in the crazy shan-zhai(山寨) business. Beside this shan-zhai philosophy was only a brief period coinciding with the early stages of mobile industry. It is very unlikely that Singapore Govt would allow such products to be sold or imported to Singapore...if Shan Zhai was a big portion of the product. Look the British like to go around the world always pretending that they started everything so the world is literally copying them. It makes them feel superior that putting milk in their cup of tea is something they started. Now the whole world is copying them..They of course also invented the bicycle except that there wasn't any patent on this mode of transport..at the beginning.
No one is accusing Mobot of having violated patents conditions filed by Brompton and copy the folding technique of a proper Brompton. You need to hire some lawyers to ascertain the exact patents filed by the creators owners of Brompton. Maybe Brompton owners were so thrilled with the fact that they knew, no other folder-ble bikes folds just as neatly as a Brompton that they decided not to bother with patenting this creation or folding action. They in fact expected anyone to just create a bike and show that it could ride better than a Brompton. This was their general challenge to the world. Along came this Singaporean who decided that he could get workers in China to build a frame that folds exactly like Brompton. The rest is history.. Brompton is not good at creating Ebikes that could ride for 100000 km with a full charge. In fact the trend in this world is can you build a better or cheaper e-bike. The trend is not can you rebuilt a folderble bike like the Brompton...There is going to be very much electricity that just is not used that well by a Brompton..
Tanstaafl! Good thing you are not a lawyer. Also there are a lot of entrepreneurs in Singapore that understand patents and how to hire a law firm to check out patents when you are planning to build a product. Singapore is definitely not China or Shenzhen. They actually know how to speak the English language wow..and even understand the shan-zhai mentality which was never really present in Singapore when they started making vegetarian meat, or solar panels..Besides to have such educated civil servants, I very much doubt a shan-zhai product like Mobile phones was ever allowed to be sold in forever so law abiding Singapore.. Come now.. wakey wake wake...
turtle, I am in Boulder, CO and have a Mobot coming in a few days to compare to my Bromptons. I will post a video after having a chance to evaluate it.
@@chuckankeny5987 Thanks, I'm looking forwards to the video! :) Quality folders are in short supply, there's huge secondary market price gouging happening right now for second hand Bromptons, and I'm really looking for other options.
Come on builders, at least do something different. I will just through out one idea, use quick release skewers. All serious commuters know flat tires happen when it is raining, dark, and cold. Being able to quickly remove the wheel is big plus especially when it is freezing out there.
I am baffled here. I am willing to spend good money on a bike only if the bike is outstanding, such as Brompton. Here I am to spend nearly as much money as for a Brompton and get a Brompton look-alike. What is the point?! To throw good money away?!
This looks like a straight copy and is likely to infringe Brompton's legally enforceable copyright. Buying this clone damages the UK company who have spent decades designing, refining and producing the original quality bikein London UK. I have forwarded this video to Brompton and they may seek legal redress. I hope so.
after getting a 29er mtb , i will never go back to smaller inch bicycle , so much more stable , downside , cant fold, so far the best folding frame is Change mtb folding frame
Not really cheaper than a Brompton once you take delivery into account. Brompton register their bikes so if it gets stolen it’s useless to the next person as you can’t get it serviced. Brompton have a worldwide dealership and their bikes are proven to last twenty years and you can still get spare parts. I wonder how well made the hubs and bearings are? This knock-off may appear a touch cheaper but in the long run I bet it doesn’t last as long. Does it come with a pump? And does it come with a comprehensive toolkit that fits in the frame? No I thought not.
the cheapest brompton i can find in singapore is $2500 , this is 1799 , thats $700 difference , what pump and toolkit is worth $700 ? stolen bikes ? lock it, be vigilant be smart... stolen bromptons can be serviced..by the thief if he is handy .
i had BROMPTON bikes which were EXTREMELY pricey, and not only that, but to my dismay, EVERY part of the BROMPTON is ALSO extremely PRICEY, that includes, its screws, wheels, tyres. It's RIDICULOUS and out of pity for the general public of bike riders, i SIMPLY threw them to the garbage, knowing that if iI would have given them away for FREE, their new owner will still have to spend a LOT of money for every apare part. i REALLY hope the developers / designers of the CAMP ROYALE designed ALL its parts to be generic, and therefore a LOT more affordable. Similar to the DAHON.
My Friend bought a Pikes, after one ride with his brompton bikers friend, he decided to sell his Pikes , and bought himself a real brompton … lol , you can felt "inferior" and like riding a "pirated copy" of a Brompton
Brompton did innovate, that's the very reason why others repeatedly copy their design! If this company were actually any good they would design and build their own bicycle products, but because they're not they just pirate an established brand's well respected model and replicate its appearance. Unfortunately for potential buyers, there is invariably a world of difference in the quality of the original and the knock off pirated copy! This company has made every effort to replicate the APPEARANCE of the Brompton in order to attract those whom like the original innovative Brompton, but they certainly haven't replicated anything like the high quality of the original. These utterly disposable knock off's tell one all they need to know about the ethics of the company that produces them and those that run those companies...
