The Rumbling is Perfectly Defensible - Attack on Titan 

I just want to say this wasnt justice. It was the very last resort that Eren managed to pull of in order to save his friends for as long as it was possible

Another fact: negotiation doesn't work, even if you are a really great person but you are an eldian. The founder can turn you into a titan and make you do stuff you will never even think of doing, that's why negotiation isn't a choice

We have no obligation to lay down and die for a world that hates us, if the world said that me and my people should vanish, we have every right to tell the world, no, you vanish.

This is amazing. Thank you. Not only does this explain why the Rumbling was Eren's only "real" path, but it also explains that Eren Jaeger---the man we know is emotional, full of justice, and cares for his people and friends---is *not* a monster. Too many people see Eren's evolution as "Good --> Bad;" this, unfortanutely, is *not* how it works. Not in Attack On Titan, not in the real world. Eren is simply an Eldian that cares for his friends. Yes, he wishes everyone could get together, just as everyone else. It's just too unrealistic with such limited time and power.

Eternal reminder the alliance were like "genocide isn't the answer!! We'll find a solution to end the cycle of oppression without violence!!" And it ended up with paradise being carpet bombed lmao they had no solution from the very start

"I knew as well as I knew anything that the oppressor must be liberated just as surely as the oppressed. A man who takes away another man's freedom is a prisoner of hatred, he is locked behind the bars of prejudice and narrow-mindedness." Nelson Mandela In the infinity of the universe no one is right or wrong, there are only consequences to the actions we take, took or will take.

This video perfectly sums up my thoughts, my feelings and my ideas in the show all in one nice bouquet.

I have at least two reasons that I remembered why I supported the Rumbling. The first is because I believed in the Chinese philosophy known as Legalism and the Islamic theology known as Ash'ari. And the second reason is because I hated the Marleyan society for failing to be better than the Old Eldian one. With the Rumbling is destroying everything, all flaws and corruptions in all socities, the Marleyan one included, are also destroyed as well. And according to Legalism, humans are naturally evil and inherently selfish creatures that needed to be control. And the only reason why a human is willing to die for another human is because of the shared self-interests. So that made me believed that if they cannot be controlled, they are needed to be dealt with. And according to Ash'ari theology, we humans possessed free wills but our freedoms are limited to the power to decide between the possibilities given to us by God. And because the actions of humans are all willed and created by God while we humans still possessed free wills such as intentions at the same time, we humans have "acquire" responsibilities for our own actions. And this is why I supported the Rumbling when it comes to my own personal beliefs and desires because when everything from the old world is destroyed along with its flaws, the survivors can restarted anew and that Marley and the rest of the world needed to take responsibilities of their actions for attempting to commit genocide against Paradis as well, even if it is because their actions have been made by the possibilities offered to them by the Divine. And yes, Eren has to take responsibility of unleashing the Rumbling as well and in the manga, he did in the end when he made no attempt to put up the resistance against Mikasa when she arrived to end his life. Plus, the conflict between Paradis and Marley also pointed out how much naturally evil and inherently seflish the humans in both societies are. The same also applied to all humans in the rest of the world as well. And no, I am no Muslim and also not a Chinese. I am simply a believer of Legalism and Ash'ari. That's all. Hoever, I think you underestimated how politics and diplomacy worked a bit. The idea that no ones wanted to ally with Paradis in the war against Marley is something unrealistic. So allowed me to introduce you to the Franco-Ottoman alliance: In the 16th century, France allied with the Ottoman Empire after they lost the Battle of Pavia and King Francis was captured. Desperate to rescue her son, Duchess Loiuse of Savoy, who is King Francis' mother, dispatched Jean Frangipani and his entourage to the Sublime Porte of the Ottoman Empire's capital in Constantinople with a letter to request for help to Sultan Suleiman to rescue her son from captivity and to attack the Habsburg from the east. In the Sultan's eyes, the letter is the recognition by France that the Ottoman Empire is a European nation and the true Third Rome, given the Ottoman Sultan the legitimacy to participate in Europe's affairs and also received the pretext to go to war with Hungary, which happened to be ruled by King Charles of Spain's brother-in-law, King Louis II of Hungary, through his marriage with Charles' sister whose name is Mary. This led to the Battle of Mohacs and the Ottoman Empire annexed Hungary as the Budin Eyalet while also opening the gate for the Ottoman Empire to go further into Central Europe, specifically at the Habsburg's Austrian capital of Vienna. I told you this because the alliance between France and the Ottoman Empire yielded good results for both parties despite the fact that it was very scandalous at the time in the eyes of the Catholic Christian Europe. So if such alliances like the Franco-Ottoman alliance, the other similar ones that come as the sorts of response such as the Anglo-Moroccan alliance and the Habsburg-Safavid alliance can happened in our world, why Paradis cannot join the Allies during the Marley Mid-East War, when the Mid-East Allied Forces needed help the most?

I feel like the first and third arguments are throwaway arguments. They basically boil down to: It's satisfying to see the Rumbling in animated form. And I agree. I don't think there are many people that would argue that, except for a few pseudo-moral Twitter-users. None of these points actually defend the morals of using the Rumbling. The second argument is the only one that actually tries to do what the title of the video set out to do. It does so by trying to point out flaws in the 50-year plan. But this argument is in itself flawed. Firstly: The 50-year plan is not the only solution proposed in the series. So even if you would completely invalidate this option in your argument, this still wouldn't leave the Rumbling as the necessary solution. Secondly: There are misconceptions within the argument itself. For example you claim that the Rumbling was not able to deter attacks and actually work as a viable threat in the past. Which is true, but only because the Tyburs knew that the king of the wall was shackled by the vow renouncing war and was thus unable to utilize the rumbling. Now that Eren and Zeke got rid of this vow the Rumbling suddenly becomes a viable threat. I'm not trying to defend any plan or claim to know which one actually would be best and I think that one could construct a coherent argument for the use of the rumbling but I feel like your argument in this video is very flawed.

The conspiracy that underpins the Liberio festival often goes unnoticed in discussions of the Rumbling. One of Eren and Zeke’s goal in pushing for and attacking the festival was to ensure that a global alliance against Paradis formed in the first place. Recall, for instance, who was the one who suggested Marley both advance their time table for their invasion and brought the Tyburs into the equation. Even if you don’t buy that explaination, Eren and Zeke still forfeited a prime opportunity to deal with the coming declaration of war without the fallout of the Liberio festival. They could have simply grabbed hands when they met in Liberio and used the Founder to either negotiate with Tybur via paths, or wipe his memory/kill him witth the Founder. Either way zeros the chance of a global alliance because the guy was the only person in Marley popular enough to command the respect of the world. No Willy Tybur, no Global Alliance.

If you study international politics, you will see a striking resemblance between the AoT world and realism philosophy. Anarchic world system leads to uncertainty of states' intentions, uncertainty leads to security pursuits. Marley needs the founding titan to safeguard its national security, as titans had become vulnerable to modern weapons, but Marley's attempts threaten Paradis existence. It also shows that international institutions and dialogues cannot prevent wars. Paradis is a weak state, but it had the potential of unleashing weapons of mass destructions to its enemies. Under this logic, Eren's strategy is rational (although Eren's decision to destroy the all nations instead of focusing on Marley is debatable).

as a Jeageris i approve

Wanna hear a further take? When the rumbling is over, a world with only Eldians is a world where peace is finally possibly. Take in consideration all the powers that the eldians have, they can easily achieve world peace for millenia.

Eren needs to keep moving forward. There is no other way to prevent that future island of blood.

Eren isn’t just the Attack Titan… he’s the LAST Attack Titan. After 2000 years of pain and hate and subversion with no end in sight, that end is finally here. And it’s name is Eren Yeager.

I said the exact same thing. Genocide is bad. No one is arguing that. But, when you really think about it, there was no way Paradis would be safe and it would fall regardless. It was this tiny island VS the world. Negotiations and talking only go so far.

Eren did want things could be solved peacefully. Many attempts have been tried but world still antagonize eldian and paradise. With his Titan+life due is approaching, he being pushed for last resort

I’m pretty fucking sure staying on the island would’ve been the best option. Just throw rocks at anyone who comes close and boom your fine forever as the world outside advance in culture and technology.

Erentards always try to use declaration of war event as the escape goat lmao. The declaration of war event was caused because of Eren and Zeke’s schemes. I have also included the chapter numbers so no one say say it is my head cannon. Yelena laid out the plans to attack on Liberio to provoke worlds nations and give them a month to gather their ships and destroy them in one attack with partial rumbling(Chapter 132). Moving forward with that plan, Zeke gives the suggestion for Marley to move forward with their Paradis invasion plan emphasizing the need for an international declaration to buy Marley time for modernization (Chapter 93). In pursuit of this, Zeke suggests to invite Willy Tybur as a “narrator” for Marlyean Eldians drafting a script with him for the upcoming festival (Chapter 95). Willy, recognizing the enmity that stands between Marley in the world, plans to use Paradis’s upcoming attack as a means to rally them against the island - his plan to do so will not work unless that happens (Chapter 100) This global alliance wouldn’t even exist if Eren and Zeke hadn’t conspired to bring the events of Declaration of War to fruition.

Love this my dude! Would love to hear your thoughts on other stories as well! Like Re zero, death note, and most importantly the masterpiece, Made in Abyss

Never in the history of entertainment media has anything made me soo feel soo conflicted. Attack on titan is the greatest tv series of all time

I kept screaming YES, OF COURSE, EXACTLY, and whatnot during the entire video. It's like u said I don't support this in real world either but I, like you also deduced these reasons to defend rumbling.

Eren wants too end the perpetration of Eldian's on Paradis (permanently) from the outside world

I like every side of this story. Eren is based. Armin (and friends) are also based. Everyone is awesome.

People are quick to jump on the righteous bandwagon to say "hey it's wrong to support genocide", but by doing so they already missed the point of the story. Some of the core concepts presented is that 1) people are intately prone to greed which results in conflict, 2) our natural tendency would lead us to destruction, and 3) this tendency goes back and forth in cycles. The how and why are the story beats, and the point here is that whether you're in one camp or another, our actions are but a footnote of the cycle that will ultimately repeat itself.

Isayama really wrote the story to make the rumbling the only and true solution, no matter how you look at it. And honestly regardless of him writing himself into this corner it's probably how it would play out in real life too. If there was a group of people with literal superpowers of course they would be ostracized and the rest would want them eradicated. Humanity would wipe out this threat, unless said threat wipes humanity first. It really is a survival of the fittest situation and only one can remain. Eren and the yeagerists (fans) do not actively support such horrible acts. But it's what must be done, plain and simple.

i subscribed to see where you stand when it ends ps: I agree with you

Another way to put it is that Eren see the world as Nazi and themselves as the Jews. The motivation is not that far fetched. Obviously nobody should support genocide, but the reason why this story is so good is that it gives very strong insight towards the mind who ended up with this resolve. For once we're not given a mustache twirling bad guy who wants everyone dead because he is pure eeeevill. The means are justified in the mind of the villain, and reasonably enough, those who see things his way support his actions. This is good storytelling.

The people that say that if you like the rumbling you support genocide are probably the same people who like Frieza but don't consider the fact that he's space hit*r.

So this argument falls apart with one line inputted into the anime that manga readers didn’t understand: a country that loses its army suffers economic collapse. They risked the rumbling because they didn’t experience it. They didn’t understand the true horror that they would unleash. A small scale rumbling to destroy the allied fleet and maybe a bit of Marley would have been more than enough. No more army. Economy collapses. No economy, no researching new anti titan weapons. No need to hunt weapons depots because the dead economy takes care of that problem. Paradis would have also been in a position to provide aid to the newly disenfranchised countries that just attacked them and prove they are not “devils”. Literally everything would have been fine had cooler heads prevailed like in real life. Unfortunately, The worst person imaginable who was biologically predisposed to wiping the slate outside clean and emotional to a fault all his life got his hands on the weapons of mass destruction. Look man, you have good points and you even taught me about how to look at a story through a meta lens. The rumbling is quite literally indefensible. That wasn’t Justice. That was quite literally a drug addict slaughtering people because he quite literally couldn’t stop.

Sneak pieck lmao

Agreed. Is what Eren is doing awful? Yes. But, some people treat what's happening in the show like it's an easy thing to fix. It's not... And there is no good choice. His options are watch everyone he loves die or kill everyone else. He's not doing this cuz he likes it, he's doing this cuz he has no choice. Mans has it rough...

Yeager for life

BASED

I love this video, it lists the reasons why it was supposed to happen and why it we rooted for it. From the perspective Eren, the whole story is a radicalization story, our powerless MC lost so many around him because of the outside world, saw they did not plan to change, a peacefull integration was never going to happen, he had couple of years left to live, not enough time to see if negociations where an option (which we will be spoiled to eventually), what did he do in the end? He moved forward, untill all life outside of the walls was exterminated. Is it awful? yes. Does it make sense from Erens perspective? YES Just remembering all of the amazing characters we lost during the show, they way we did, I could not condone Erens actions againt a world that only showed him hate... I would throw a conspiracy theory regarding the ending and the rumbling, but I will avoid that untill it's out

Season 2 outro best outro Season 4 part 2 intro best intro

Note that a way to view the symbolisms in this story is that the walls represent religion. It keep those who were ignorant of the workings of the world safe and secure. Meanwhile, if you destroy the walls, you destroy the world. As many truly thinks that religion is the only thing that brings order and peace to the world, and loosing religion would only lead to chaos that will ultimately destroy civilization as we know it.

I'm an anime only, but I gotta disagree here. 1: Meta reasons While seeing the apocalypse beautifully animated is, well, beautiful, that doesn't make it justifiable. Otherwise similar horrific events in the show, like Eren's mother getting eaten, Zeke screaming and turning people into titans or those terrible men killing Mikasa's parents and kidnapping her could be viewed as justifiable simply because they are fictional and make for cool moments within the story. The situation presented in Attack on Titan, particuarly in season 3 part 1 and season 4, is one of moral dilemma, making you choose what is and isn't ethical based on the circumstances, with the majority of the main characters choosing to pursue a peaceful resolution in spite of the slim chances of it working because they would rather risk themselves than make the whole world their enemy, while characters like Eren and Zeke choose more radical solutions with an almost certain chance of success if they pull it off, but with devastating consequences, killing untold people. So, when Hanji calls the others to move against Eren because global genocide is morally wrong, that is a perfectly acceptable, and quite frankly norma position for the audience to take, and whoever is in defense of Eren's plan will have an uphill battle trying to justify it (likely much more so when the next part comes out and we see the devastating effects it has on the innocent people of the world). By making us think in terms of which plan has more moral value, the plans that are presented have meaning, so we can't just brush it off as cool when arguing about it as we are here. 2: Logical reasons The Founding Titan power is almost godlike, with almost uncountable possibilities. For example, Zeke wants to use it to change the Eldians genetically, making them unable to reproduce. The power was also able to create the wall titans and the walls in the first place, as well as wipe the memories of those on Paradis. With this information, the Founding power seems to have complete control of the minds and bodies of all Eldians. Needless to say, that is a lot of possibilities that the characters could explore. Eren could, for example, make Eldians invulnerable to all conventional forms of weaponry or torture (knives, guns etc) and make them super strong, removing Marley's ability to hurt or imprison them anymore, or even have them all be capable of becoming titans at will while retaining their minds, causing a revolt around the world and distracting Marley and each country under their control from attacking Paradis. Better yet, he could have altered the Eldian physiology so that Eldian and Marley blood was indistinguishable, meaning Marley would have no idea who to subjugate in the first place (granted this would take several generations to be effective). There are also a few other options that the forces of Paradis could have taken without using the founding titan, for example, threatening but not actually using any or all of the options listed above, hijacking the Tyber speech with the threat of using the colossal titan explosion, in a key Marley location, either listing demands or inspiring the diplomats of other countries to stand with Paradis. It would be a shot in the dark sure, but chances are it would at the very least gather support abroad and demonstrate to the world that they wouldn't immediately resort to the Rumbling, wiping everyone out. Even if the rumbling was unavoidable due to time being linear and unalterable (and any effects you have on the past simply result in the events that have already occured, as seen with Eren and his father), a smaller rumbling could eliminate only Marley, which had only recently forced the other countries into submission, would eliminate the primary reason for the world hating the Eldians in the first place (although granted Tyber's speech rallied them against Paradis, so it would depend on whether fear would win out over ideals) - this is the worst case scenario for the honourable forces of Paradis though. Regardless, the logical ramifications of the Rumbling would be dire - for one, the entire ecosystem of the planet would be ruined, with severe negative effects on Paradis, there would be no way of utilising the technological advancements the rest of the world had made, meaning citizens of Paradis would still die needlessly of preventable illnessess lead less efficient lives. And, if the population should expand beyond the point the island can sustain them and if all the natural resources get used up, they would be unable to expand since everywhere else is now barren and lifeless - the rumbling would likely cause Paradis to die out in the long term anyway, unless another suppressive government akin to the one in season 3 takes over - oh, Eren did that as well. Well, he solves that problem, but now Paradis lives under the same kind of system that Eren found so repressive in the early seasons, causing all sorts of problems. 3: Semantics While the whole story builds up to Eren's actions, that doesn't justify them. You could argue that his future visions made the rumbling inevitable, but you could also say that it is his fundamentalist mindset and seething hatred to those beyond the walls, be they titans or later humans, that they were a natural progression for him, and ultimately consistent with his character, but from the very start the other characters were concerned with where Eren would end up, refusing to quit on his warpath through unfaltering willpower. Well now their concerns were warranted. Again, just because the story naturally leads to the rumbling, it doesn't make it defendable as done in the video. An argument we could have is if the rumbling is the only way for Eren to save Paradis (which I've contested in this post - admittedly it is the weakest point in my criticism) or if Eren had any other choice considering he saw the future and the Attack Titan as an entity carries out the future, but those are separate discussions. What do you guys think?

Zeke supremacy

They fucked around and found out. Enough said.

I’m still not convinced that wiping out the world’s military wouldn’t be possible. I think you dismissed that kind of option too quickly. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a modified version of Armin’s plan could work. Why wouldn’t it work to pass on the founding Titan power to others after Erin gets too old and dies, keep the power away from the royal family so they don’t muck things up again, wipe out just the hostile militaries of the world with the founding Titan power, erect super large walls around all the world’s nations, have paradi institute new governments that have sovereignty over particular nations of the world (maybe paradi could even try vetting the members of each nation’s government to try and have members native to the particular nation that will cooperate with paradi), have those new governments facilitate opportunities for dialogue and negotiations between Eldians/paradians and citizens of other nations; have paradi and the other nations promote diplomacy, peace, some trade within reason at the start, and all around help depropagandize the other nations; set up a process to where citizens of the other nations over time can prove to paradi that they are not a threat to paradi, and then allow those citizens to be able to freely travel the world once again; and then maybe in a couple 100 years, paradi can finally take down the world’s walls, give back each nation’s full autonomy/freedom, etc. At least that’s what I would try to do. There are certainly more specifics I’d have to give. But, I think it would work eventually. At the very least, I would think it would be a hell of a lot better than “the wonders and glories of - GENOCIDE.” - Dennis Prager from YTP - Good Old P.U.

You forgot the biggest problem with the 50 year plan they never had 50 years they have maybe a decade 2 at most which isn't enough time, why you ask why well because the world will obviously have nukes by then. The single best reason for the rumbling is that technology will overpower the threat of the titans long before peace is viable so you have to destroy the world while it's still primitive peace was never an option. People like to say not everyone is bad just the Marleyans which tells me people don't pay attention Marley has a huge eldian minority because they treat them better than the rest of the world.

Based and genocidepilled

Shinzo wo SASAGEYO! FOR PARADIS

I mean, if I was born an Eldian I wouldn't sit down and just die. I don't know why people can't get that. Eren is doing what needs to be done for his people. I would fight if my country and family came under attack by an enemy nation. I wouldn't let that nation strip my rights of reproduction or mass slaughter my people. When its fight or die you need to fight. More people need to understand that narrative. I mean the Eldians are being treated like the Jewish in the holocaust. They've got 1940s~ tech in Marley which I'm sure is supposed to be a subtle hint, as well as keeping the Eldians in their own camps. Marley is at fault here because you can't hold a nation of people accountable for the crimes their grandparents committed.

Eren is not a complex character by any means, and i don't admire him but he was right and the Alliance was wrong. Imagine killing your comrades to save people you don't even know and wouldn't hesite to kill you if they had the chance.

you'd a maniac

I agree 100%

4:23

Yeagerist!!!!

The TRUE REASON: Eren just wants to command all the wall titans. I mean you can't disagree that the rumbling is cool as hell! And Eren is still a teenager at heart!

Eren could've taken away the ability to turn titans away form all the eldians using Founding titan .....is the best solution

So... I bet you hated the ending? Your semantic argument looks mighty stupid with the reveal of Eren's true character after all

since they are basically calling Eren an austrian painter and his followers Notsees, I can sympathize more with the 3rd reich than I can with what they are calling Marley, I haven't seen them call Marley anything or blaming them for not minding their own business

The rumbling is an event that is enviable eldians people's life is a mirror of black peoples daily life. erin is what the real world needs and deserves right now