The sad truth about gliding and soaring 

Most motorcyclists die in single vehicle accidents.

I think the greatest cause of motorcycle accidents is testosterone.

True. Also seems that most deaths include one of the following: very inexperienced pilots; aerobatics, competition (landing out, low thermals). Age also counts. I'm a hang glider pilot so I can say about how it goes in HG and paragliding. Competition increases the risk enormously. Thermal gaggles and out landings. Recently two PG collided above launch at my club's festival/comp, while they were tumbling down and opening reserves, a third pilot froze and flew straight below them. This third guy was very experienced, and died, was too low for a reserve chute. In free flight, a glider too hot for skill level (or age) also counts. And in january a local HG pilot crashed into trees on final approach. He is past 70 and was flying a competition glider that is much less forgiving and is harder to handle (we shift weight for roll input). He spent over 2 months in ICU and is now on wheel chair. Were he flying a low intermediate, he wouldn't have crashed, I'm sure.

There are other reasons for decline of soaring. First of all, a good used motorcycle is $4,000 and a glider is $400,000. You are hard pressed to find a really used one under $40,000. And its not uncommon to need $20,000 in repairs. Second is requirements. It requires skill that takes practice that takes money and time. Just meeting the FAA requirements and maintaining adequate knowledge pertaining to legal stuff is a burden in itself. A motorcycle endorsement is $50 and an afternoon of your time, and good for life. Then there is liability. The club local to me has several members fighting six figure lawsuits from disgruntled landowners. The club itself is constantly under legal action both civil courts and constantly dealing with the FAA for tow plane noise and what have you. The FAA doesn't recognize Gliders out landings as valid actions. They will violate the pilot of multiple counts as if it was voluntary and intentional. Private property rights are an absolute in America and very strict in states such as Wyoming. If you end up shot, nobody goes to jail. If you live. They can have your house.

@@ericoschmitt While I was subscribed to the Sailplane and Gliding magazine, which is the official magazine of the British Gliding Association I generally looked through the published list of accidents which include everything from near misses, loss of aircraft but pilots managed to bail out to fatal accidents. It contains everything which has to be reported in line with the guidelines of the BGA/CAA. While inexperienced pilots certainly make more mistakes I have observed a very broad mix of experience levels of pilots which are involved in serious incidents. While inexperience carries a lot of risk it appears that complacency of an experienced pilot is even more dangerous.

Good for you.

A great post. I flew 7 days as p2 in the UK 2 seater nationals, with two different pilots. Both were great pilots and didnt get sucked into dangerous flying, but I witnessed the occasions when over aggressive under skilled pilots joined a crowded thermal and put others at risk. Fly your own flight, within your own abilities, is my creed 👍 For everything else there's Condor VR gliding simulator 🤪 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tD7Xv6IIiGQ.html

I am unsure of what you are saying, sir. English appears to be your second tongue, which is a perfectly fine thing. My secondary tongue is not so advanced. But did you say that you had stopped gliding?

@@Svensk7119 Yes, I am not gliding anymore. As I wrote (in my pigeon English 🤣) I have reviewed all my near-accident situations critically and decided to call myself an exceptionally lucky person. Every one of these situations could have ended differently. They were all "it was close" situations. These were situations that we all narrate to our pilot friends in the evenings. We all have those situations in our memories - lucky safe. I just realized that I am tempting fate. There was another factor that played together in that decision. I have stopped to be part of the corporate world and my life started to be much less stressed than before. I do not need to burn emotions through gliding anymore. As a consequence, the risk level acceptance diminished. So again, I do not fly gliders. No regrets. One day everybody will stop flying, but it is not my medical tests, It is not fate, it is my conscious decision. Sorry for my English. It is difficult to describe quite a complex thought process mixed with emotions.

I could understand to stop gliding in competitions, because that is really more dangerous than usual soaring. But the "normal" relaxed gliding, maybe even not in the mountains, can be excercised as safe as a bicycle ride, in my opinion.

"There are old pilots & bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots!" Ancient Chinese proverb.

Too much jargon to understand the story.

@@SeattlePioneerapparently their airport lies next to a street. Or the field damages the wings? All the crop.

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt indeed, you cross autostradale (highway) on approach to 08

This guy must be good, he flies gliders for 60 years

Things have changed a lot since then. I fly microlights, they are very safe these days typically

As a former microlight instructor I can confirm that currently microlights have a safety record as good as, or better than, GA generally. Sadly there are sometimes fatal accidents but they are getting rarer with better, more reliable machines and effective pilot training.

Microlights safer than GA? Per mile? No way. Per flight? Accidents per participant? I can't believe it. I'd say they're safer than wingsuits, though. @@bigglesace1626

Wasn't there a issue with the launch at Sutton bank that caused casualties?

I can't fly my little experimental unless I just accept I could die, same attitude if you rock climb. I'm pushing 60 and still dont really care if I die

Thanks Neil, yes the feedback has been overwhelming! So many comments and stories from people.

Always remember, Airspeed is life! Altitude is Life Insurance!

No, you can WATCH that corner and do a step aside for that doofus. If the doofus gets you, you were driving too fast. But yeah, the doofus is pretty small in your mirrors, and he hits you from a direction you do not expect. Still, always watch out for the doofus! If you are only half conscious, you won't make it.

, when I first started flying I had too much confidence in single engine planes. They are unreliable and the situation is made worse by expensive hard to obtain maintenance. Now I would only fly from one airport or emergency landing site to the next, I realize how stupid I was to just fly directly to a destination fat dumb and happy.

hi i am a novice . could you elaborate on why would this be the case or even provide some website or link for me to look it up?

​@@samar949additional cost, additional weight (which reduces performance), etc....

3rd try to post the link to DG's archive.

Is like buying a new table saw and removing the blade guard because it gets in the way of your viewing of the blade and cut.. People hate safety features if they compromise on the performance of the instrument.. Gliding is the same.. Parachutes are too heavy.. Collision avoidance systems are expensive, stall warnings are annoying... Each pilot who chooses not to have these features is doing so because he thinks I dont need any of that, I know what im doing, thats only for amateurs..@@samar949

​@@nadiaroler6314RU-vid really doesn't like comments that contain links.

So very true. Athletes never stop trading. Musicians never stop practicing…….lots of other examples……

I'm no expert by any stretch and came across this by curiosity, but all commercial flying has an electronics suite for safety doesn't it? And all these dead glider pilots or the majority were irresponsible then? Or perhaps, more likely, the truth is these were just regular people just like you who rolled a dice and got unlucky? People often do something day in day out like driving but will eventually make a mistake. We are all human. It just seems to me a mistake here is just far more costly.

There are many reasons why people get killed in aviation, there's some crossover, but also some significant differences in what tends to kill pilots between powered flight and soaring. Powered GA pilots tend to get killed by knowledge, inexperience, currency issues. Unintentional flight into IMC conditions, loss of control due to high altitude environments / terrain, etc. It's not uncommon that many GA pilots intentionally avoid active air conditions, they have that option. However many pilots who die soaring are exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced. Soaring however always takes place in an inherently (comparatively speaking) risky environment. The air is active, and it's being done in aircraft that are often lighter than GA aircraft, sometimes much lighter. In competitions you'll be flying in close proximity to other pilots. There's the competitive element itself that rewards pilots for pushing it. Then there are the outlandings, you simulate that in GA training, but many soaring pilots actually do it regularly. A large minority of my landings hanggliding have been into un-scouted fields in fact, that's just part of the reality of cross country flying. There aren't many soaring pilots that intentionally fly in an overly dangerous way, everyone has a sense of how much risk they are willing to accept, but it's very rarely no risk, sometimes you lose that bet and walk away unharmed, sometimes it kills you. I lost a friend this past year. Among the best hangglider pilots in the world, he had been flying for around 40 years. Even after so long he was an absolute monster of a pilot, infinitely passionate about cross country flying, at the end of the soaring day he would always be smiling and sharing beers. I remember at the end of one day, the rest of us had all been on the ground for an hour or two, no clouds left in the sky, the sun starting to get low, sitting in the hanger chatting we heard the tell tale whistle of the wing of a hangglider swooping in overhead and he lands after an enormous fai triangle. I had come down earlier because my hands were frozen despite wearing gloves and so I was curious to see what kind of gloves he had. He wiped some blood off his lip, turbulence smashed his face into the control bar hard enough that he said he had been worried about passing out. Turns out he didn't have gloves with him! Flying through snow, freezing temperatures, and turbulence for over 9 hours to complete his triangle. Despite all that, he was smiling and as passionate as ever, I can only envy such drive, he was an inspiration. Anyone would change the flight that injures or kills them. However fewer pilots are honestly willing to make intentional changes to their risk profile. I'm not going to judge a skilled pilot who has chosen a riskier profile than mine. I know if I was able to ask my friend if he would have changed how he flew over his life knowing how it would end.... I doubt it, he lived for this. Another friend of mine had a hard landing and took a moderate brain injury. He was an instructor and gave safety lectures and landing improvement courses. I don't think there was anything particularly noteworthy about the flight that injured him. I don't think he made any overly dangerous decisions. The reality is that we are leaves on the wind, it's dangerous, even when you are trying to be reasonable with your safety margin. The truth is there's not one top glider pilot that hasn't pushed the envelope further than others were willing to. In Sebastian Kawa's book "Sky full of heat" he recounts some stories of learning to thermal in clouds, and stories of competitions that preceded him when cloud flying was not penalized by competition rules. Pilots would thermal up thunderstorms using the presence of hail as an indicator of where the core was. Keep in mind this was done with just a turn indicator and airspeed, no artificial horizon. Needless to say, gliders were being ripped apart, severe icing, midair collisions, pilots who bailed out could be deposited 30k+ ft frozen and suffocated. After reading some of those stories, most everything else sounds tame by comparison, and it demonstrates that at least in competition, it's important to set rules that create reasonable boundaries on what people are allowed to do. Unfortunately I have more stories of friends as well as my own failures. The moral though is sometimes people knowingly choose a more risky flight envelope, and while it's important to step in when you think people are really crossing a line or doing so unaware, sometimes it's their decision, and I just can't judge them for that. Secondly I would say, do what you can do to stay safe, but never think it can't happen to you, because it can. Commercial aviation is safe because of the combined effort of an entire industry, pilots, engineers, regulations, ground crew, automated systems.... one guy can never equal that.

@@Chris-kv4vl Not entirely sure what you're on about there, but the overall impression I'm picking up on is that getting knocked about would do you the world of good.

​@@Chris-kv4vl you have way oversimplified and overgeneralized the whole thing. Pilots of commercial aircraft can still crash, they can still make mistakes. The avionics doesn't prevent crashes wholesale. A lot of these crashes he describes are ones related to competitions, which means they're pushing themselves and the aircraft to their limits. That's a danger in any sport that involves any kind of vehicle. The others, I can't speak for at all but it sounds like in gliding, it's very easy to become complacent and becoming complacent in a glider can lead to death very quickly. But the same can happen in a commercial airliner. Ever seen some really sketchy landings in crosswinds? The avionics can't save bad inputs. It'll alert you, but it's too late if you rock the plane 20deg in a 50mph crosswinds 40ft off the deck. That's gonna be a big, firey oopsie. And sometimes pilots get close and if you watch a video of a pilot breaking it down, it's always due to a bad input.

Sorry to hear that, hope you're OK now

Ouch! 12m is a VERY nasty fall.

@@PureGlide In my paragliding community, I often hear the same saying, that driving to the site is more dangerous than actually flying... And if we PG pilots are slightly more exposed to lethal accidents than glider pilots, we are way, way more exposed to non-lethal but serious accidents.

Couldn't agree more, thanks for commenting

Seconded!

Key danger word there - Alps 😊 Fly safe all!!

@@christophergaus3996 Why would it be more dangerous in the Alps? I would've assumed that this is the safest place to do it

Well said :)

I thought it should be as easy to modify things on a motor-glider than on a experimental class...

Sorry to hear that

Sorry to hear that, there’s a lot of parallels really, both sports need tremendous respect!

Paragliders are safer than gliders or hang gliders

Thanks Jimbo, must be a whole other thing dealing with top dressing risks as well as doing it full time!

Great comment. As a PPL/SEL TW pilot, with just a little glider training. I can confirm that stall/spin training is egregiously lacking in the US. The best training I have is 4hrs in a Pitts with the best Pitts instructor in the world. And the most valuable experience I have is Stalls and Spinning Pitts S2A, Citabria, Decathlon, and Cessna 172. I'm sure Sailplanes are trickier. Due to the difference in tip airspeeds, long span, low Reynolds numbers due to narrow chord and low speed, wing torsion and flexibility, overall poor stability and control characteristics such as massive adverse yaw at high lift coefficients. Owing to the fact they are highly compromised aircraft dedicated to one objective.

Interesting points . I would argue that 25 hrs a year is no where enough experience to maintain current skill levels let alone develop new ones . Genuinely surprised how few hours could be flown during any sport which have serious consequences to error . Surprise accident rates aren’t higher . Great vid

NV 23 hi from Raven!

Best of luck with your training!

Thanks Johan :)

@@PureGlide Well said. Doesn't matter what you do in life as long as you recognize and MANAGE the risks....after all there is risk in EVERYTHING we do from walking down stairs, to crossing the street, to riding in the car with mama, among a whole world of other risks. I had two careers in aviation...first one 20+years) as a military pilot primarily in helicopters, but there were a couple of thousand hours of fixed wing in there (and plenty of opportunities to hurt or kill yourself), too...that was followed by a second career flying corporate jets all over several continents. Along the way of those two careers I added a glider commercial and a glider instructor to several other ratings with that glider stuff begun in a German glider club in Mainbullau, Germany off of a winch. Wound up my career with north of 13,000 hours in multiple categories of flying contraptions....and an FIA diamond badge in gliders. Soo...I'd say that good old common sense, a bit of luck at the right moment(s) and paying attention to the rules (both physical AND regulatory) of the way the world works should keep one alive. Tim is right about MANAGING risk, but FIRST you have to recognize it...and whether you think about it or not, that is true of pretty much every sort of activity a human might participate in.

@@donjohnson8649 Very true! I've been shaken up by near misses driving a car, most recently a motorcyclist was overtaking on the wrong side of the road stationary trucks and cars at traffic lights, and he just couldn't wait. I was about to turn right to go around them and didn't see the motorcyclist but instinct made me hesitate and not pull out to turn right (from a street on a 90 degree angle to the road). He wasn't supposed to be there he wasn't meant to cross into the oncoming past stationary cars and trucks or cross over a white line but the road was free of cars on that oncoming side and he thought Why not? He didn't know I was there about to turn right. He has no idea that he was saved, and possibly me also, from. him hitting my driver side, simply by an instinct. I didn't have clear vision of the right side of the road and something made me think...no. Even though he shouldn't have been there. He imagines he made a great decision. No. I did. But he will continue to dice with death and that's what shook me up more, as I watched him speed triumphantly ahead...towards the next intersection. The way I grew up understanding cars and risk, you take your life into your hands each time you get behind a wheel. Cars are a lot safer these days but we still have people with permanent life-altering injuries, and deaths. Caution and well timed decisions are what keeps us safe. But at the end of the day someone wth a sudden rush of blood to the head, can change everything.

Sounds like a staggering accident rate! Where I live we have a bit over 2000 flying gliders, an on average less than one fatality a year. The local gliding club, with a bit over 150 members, have had only one fatal accident since I joined in 1975, and that wasn't while gliding but by spinning in an ultra light.

Robert Kiyosaki tells the story of how one of his flight instructors threw their jet fighter into a flat spin then folded his arms and sat looking out of the window, giving control over to him. He says it's one of the best lessons he's ever had :)

Well said! Also check out the video on how to pee in a glider haha 😂

Thank you for watching

Thanks for sharing, sorry to hear about the people you lost. Yes with young children I completely understand a decision to give it a rest!

Sailing is a wonderful sport. May you have fair winds and following seas!

@@TheWealthOfNationz - thanks

That does sound like a good day!

Thank you!

Thanks! hope it stays that way too.

@@PureGlide to be honest: I held back getting back into GA because of it. But at some point I decided that happiness must override the fear. It's a risk. I will do everything in my power to reduce and manage risk - but I have to fly. Soaring is my avenue for now. I'd like to get a tail dragger but those aren't very safe, either. An engine failure or flight control problem is just as bad for your health.

Well said :) sorry to hear about your lost friends

Thank you, it really is a privilege

Thanks Bill, yes well worth reading them

Sounds like a good sensible attitude :)

"Never erode your margins." This is really the key.

Very sorry to hear that :( But glad you walked away from your incident.

There's That Key Word Lockup- I didn't expect it, but it happened when training too long and now tired from Hang Gliding all day. Then insisted to be pushed faster, I narrowly escaped by doing exactly the wrong stunt on purpose just told to me by instructor that killed his brother, being I knew now I had only inches to spare to pull out of this deadly dive, because of locking up, causing a complete dead stall of zero speed. I flared out at the last second of dive with knuckles digging in the grass,, and instantly on my feet. Ok, we're done for today... But I always wanted to be in a glider, and visiting Germany, I made sure I brought back 2.5 meter electric folding prop glider. It's amazingly quite powerful. Cheers

Well said and very interesting. Thanks for sharing

I think this is well said and largely I agree. However some new rules are not inherently bad. As we grow and learn we expand our knowledge. It would be negligent not to update rules and regulations based on best practices. I can think of numerous accidents not inherent to gliding but in general where regulations were pulled back and accidents happened as a result. Or situations where there is no regulations, looking at ocean gate.

Neil Armstrong was a glider pilot, and instructor as I recall.

Haha we do wear them! It doesn’t help if you crash into the ground :)

Sorry to hear that :(

Thank you too!

Sorry to hear about that :(

wasn't a good month then because i witnessed a crash early may this year... i hope you are okay, it can take a toll on you to see something like that happen. stay safe!

@@thijsboss1246 Sorry to hear that from your side, hope you're okay to! I'm doing great right now, sometimes I get flashbacks to the crash, but in general just doing great and enjoying the flights :). For us, and our country in general, it was a real bad start of the season, lot's of incidents happened...

“Her”

Thanks for sharing :)

Thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about your 4 friends. I don't think there are many people in aviation for any decent amount of time, who don't know someone they lost.

The correct answer is, "Yes." You were BSing people.

@@SeattlePioneer How so? Explain?

You're very welcome!

Contest flying seems to be the cause of much grief, according to a lot of these comments. I'm sorry you haven't flown since your 2nd accident - is this because you're unable to? Being in the air really does make one feel alive, which is why we do it I guess...

@@brendangilmore4297 I chose not to fly anymore. Two dimensions are enough now. I do miss it though.