Love this channel! and love the fact that you've made this video. I sell and repair coffee machines in Melbourne Australia and this issue is sadly far too common and a bad design flaw in my opinion. Long story short, the steam boiler water level probes can be coated with descaling solution (or just get dirty over time) and the next time you turn on the machine it thinks it's full, heats, overheats and cooks that fuse. Airlock would be when the steam boiler refusing to drain the descaling solution after you've opened the valves. These days I still tell my customers to avoid this and just change filters on time. Even on a newer model I've witnessed a near death experience (for machine...) when a customer of mine, 6mth old oracle BES980, told me they descaled and steam isn't working, I turn it on and it heats up without much water in the steam boiler and i heard it tinkling and could smell some plastic burning, this was over literally 30 seconds so can happen very quick! Luckily I caught it on time and worked well after i darined the boiler and cleaned the probes. CLEANING THE PROBES AFTER DRAINING THE DESCALER IS THE BEST WAY TO PREVENT THIS OVERHEATING. If airlock then yeah just try and do whatever you can to release that including removing one of the pipes on steam boiler to give it room to breathe. Hope this video and comment save your machine from this issue! Yes prevention is better than cure. Changing the water filter every 3 months (Claro Swiss brand) will minimise scale build up. RO system would be good too if you can afford it. I've done a handful of thermal fuse replacements, not fun, takes many hours and these days I refuse to work on them because it may end up being a bad motherboeard or bad heating element. Yes in some cases it's an airlock, very good method you've shown on how to distinguish between them
Kev, thanks for this video, my Sage Dual Boiler developed exactly this problem after following Sage's own descaling instructions to the letter. The worse part was it was a month outside the warranty. I took your recommendation & contacted Radu at Espresso Repairs Shop to assess the issue. He confirmed it was the thermal fuse which meant the removal of the steam boiler. He checked over the machine during the repair and also spotted a leak on one of the probes on the steam boiler, so fixed this & replaced all o-rings. Top guy, would recommend him to others. I have no affiliation to Kev or Radu & was naturally hesitant to use a repair guy I didn't know, but I needn't have worried, he was very professional & competent.
@@Ghostface944 To replace the blown thermal fuse requiring the steam boiler removal and the replacement of all seals and o-rings on both boilers, it was £160. Money well spent to avoid creating an elaborate paperweight! Happy to report it's working perfectly a year later. Jaz
Kev, thanks for the videos, they are all great. This is an issue, but another MAJOR issue for me is the group head coating, either forming bubbles, pealing, or rusting. I am disappointed and i notice this is a very common issue with all DB users.
I can vouch for that, and almost every single DB has the corroding group head issue with different degree of seriousness, the layer of Teflon coating at the group head would start to peel off in weeks of usage! Official Breville and some Breville influencer aka youtuber like to call it a cosmetic issue...
OMG... it's this issue that I kept reading about in reviews that put me off buying the DB for so long. Hope this isn't going to be an expensive mistake. Thanks for the video Kev.
Yeah I get a lot of emails from people about this, personally I wouldn't let it put you off, I'd either get comfortable with taking the top off and tinkering with it (which is great if you can, as you can do your own maintenance when required, a lot of it is really simple, I could probably even do it, hehe, but no need as I have an espresso engineer round the corner) or find a local engineer to take it to, or get a filter system or RO system. Cheers, Kev.
Thanks Kev. This is probably the most important video for the Dual Boiler. The machine is fantastic but I have an issue with Sage recommending regular descaling using their branded solution when it causes issue after issue for their customers. I’ve stopped descaling now and I’m using Ashbeck bottled water, which is not a bullet proof solution. When the machine does eventually die, I probably won’t replace it but research other brands. What a shame.
Potential Remedy: I have the Dual Boiler and I had this issue pop up last week, while I was descaling it for the first time. I had no idea was the beeping was - but when I tried the steam wand it didn’t work. I was frustrated and had heard that descaling could cause issues. I decided to do a back flush cleaning with one of the little cleaning pods. Did that - and then boom, the steam wand worked! Not sure if there was an air pocket, like you referenced - but thankfully it’s working perfectly. But now I’m scared to ever descale it again. Ha.
I have a soft water system and reverse osmosis filter for drinking water. In 5 years my Sage Duo Temp Pro has not scaled up and I have had no issues with my kettle or 30 year old washing machine. Odd pipes might take some time to remove limescale inside them. Softened water also means you need less coffee (or tea) and less soap or detergents in general and no scaling marks on glass and polished surfaces.
Popping the lid and manual descaling is the way to go. After two years looking inside the machine to check for leaks is a very good idea anyways. And while you are on it you can descale as well.
Thanks so much! This happened to me after descaling- it wasn't resolved by factory reset or by unplugging overnight, but the tilting and banging the right side you described fixed it, so it must've been the air lock. Glad I didn't try to take the machine apart.
Thanks for the video, I had Err3 issue too after descaling. I couldn't bleed out the airlock through the screws as machine would error as soon as started. Fixed it by removing a probe from the top of the steam boiler when cool and syringing water into the boiler. It now works fine. I was reluctant to put too much water in just in case it caused issues so I do temporarily get the error3 still, but seldom enough that I'm living with it until the o-ring seals need replacing in the boiler.
Just heard the three beeps for the first time today. The machine is less than a month old. That said, everything seems to be working fine, and beeps have gone away now. Fingers crossed!
I think the problem is something else, unrelated to descaling solution. I changed the O rings at the bottom of the water sensor probes and cleaned them off scale OUTSIDE the machine and ran into the three beeps of death, therefore nothing to do with coating of probes. After the boiler primed, the diagnostic menu showed HLH for the three probes, indicating that the shorter sensor i.e. full probe was still indicating insufficient water. At the firmware display screen of the menu, press the power button and it will test the machine, including running the pumps, after which I had HHH and the boiler would heat and steam. My hypothesis is that the boiler fills either to a cutoff of back pressure against the pump and an airlock will stop it short, or it fills by a timed quantity but not by the detection of the probes (which would be silly but equally doable). Either method could be done in software quite trivially but the result is insufficient water and no boiler activation. The reason this would be associated with descaling is because that's the only time people have a reason to empty the boiler.
Thanks for the video but I need some more clarification on your suggested solution: 1. Cool down the machine 2. Drain the steam boiler 3. Leave the valve open 4. Turn on the machine 5. Hear the pump run 6. Then close the valve (?) 7. Then quickly turn it off to avoid blowing the thermal fuse (?) 8. Then I assume just wait for it to cool down and turn it back on and see if the steam wand works? Are these steps correct?
Hi Kev! We have water delivered for a large bottled water machine at home. Water tested clean. Should I still use the filter on the BDB? I sometimes use distilled and then add something like Lotus coffee Water treatment to it (which does make it tastier than the delivered water). Thanks for the great content!
You mentioned various water treatments in your video, what do you think of filter jugs like the Brita range? I'm asking because I use such a jug for my Barista express impress. Thanks for another great video.
Great vid Kev. I'm also seeing others suggest that this issue can be caused by the descaling solution coating the sensor in the steam boiler, fooling the machine into thinking the boiler has water in it. Is this a thing or not?
You mentioned the thermal fuse is unlikely to happen on ‘the current version.’ Any specifics on when this was released? I got my Sage Dual Boiler from Brussels in March 2023. What version might I have?
Hi Kev….I am about to pick up a good condition second hand dual boiler. We’ve been in our house 5 years and been using the same kettle with tap water…there are no signs of limescale on the kettle. I have a peak water filter jug too…when I tested the water it suggested one of the lowers softening settings. Do you think the sage filter in the water tank of the dual boiler would be sufficient without having to descale? Cheers, Martin
G'day Coffee Kev (and fellow coffee lovers). Thanks for sharing your tips and solutions. I'm running the Breville Oracle BES980 (not sure the age as i got it second hand). Everything on my machine works okay, but the steam wand is not working - When the steam dial is switched on both auto and manual i receive the 3 deep. Any info on this and how i can resolve? Thanks in advance!
Luckily, we’re I live, the water softness is less than 50ppm. I also use a filter system to take out the chlorine taste. Never seen scale on any appliances, including the kettle.
Got one on the way to NZ from amazon Au. Such a bargain. Theyre £1200 in UK my home country! They have 6L bottles dionised water here for a bit over fove bucks. I was planning on just using those to be honest unelss harmful to the machine or adverse to taste? And will never run the descale function?
I just had the sensors in the boiler start leaking steam and putting condensation all throughout the inside of the machine. I decided to open it after watching a video and it was very straightforward,, well for me anyway. I ordered the obviously broken sensors and corroded parts i could see for $180 Australian buckaroos and will install them next week. I pulled the sensors out to see of the o rings were leaking so i know how simple it is to do.
I descaled. This issue shows up only after i haven't been using the machine for a week or so, like when i go on holiday. After turning the steam lever up and down a few times and wait 10 minutes more than the usual heat time, the steam works again. Until the next holiday..... any idea on why this happens?
So you mean it happens when you descale and then don't use it for a while, or it happens when you don't use it for a week or so regardless of when you last descaled?
@@Coffee_Kev it happens when I don't use it for a week or so regardless of when I last descaled. I reported this to breville, they told me to descale again (2/3 times) until the problem is solved. I did not follow their advice.
@@Coffee_Kev completly silent. I open the steam, 3 beeps of death, nothing happens. Until after a while the slightest bit of steam starts to come out when i open the steam knob. When i see that i know another 30 secs and steam is ready in full power.
@@izoard77 Radu (engineer) says this is peculiar, could potentially be a water sensor, if you're OK with a bit of DIY you could remove the sensors one by one, clean them with steel wire wool or very fine sandpaper and insert them back in.
Hello. With my BES980xl the automatic froth (lever down) gives me 3 beeps and does not froth milk. However, manual froth (lever up) works just fine. Any suggestions?
For the v60 I use a zero water filter jug giving 0 tds on the meter. Then add third wave water sachet to get about 150tds. Do you think this is over the top for an espresso machine as living in a area of very hard water?
Hi Andy, nah I don't think it's over the top, it might not be the cheapest solution over the long term, but it's a solution. Just keep in mind that they do a few types, you'll want to choose the espresso sachets. Cheers, Kev.
Kev why is my sage barista express auto dose button beeping three times when I press it. I’ve tried holding the manual dose button for three seconds but nothing. Am I taking it back?
Have the new machine, but made a mistake not closing the drain valves after descaling. The steam boiler still gets warm if i run descaling again, so not sure if really broken. But i cant get it to steam anymore.
Where you able to troubleshoot the problem? The fix did work for me (it was the air lock problem), though I had to search for a more detailed source on how to perform it. I have a comment somewhere here, that described the method I used to get it fixed.
