The Satmar Rebbe's Life and Controversial Anti-Zionism | In Conversation with Rabbi Ysoscher Katz 

what a nice comment! i for one am very glad that you're enjoying this! I am a Jew who studied at a Jesuit University and Diosecean college one year each, and have never felt more respected by people, the administrators and professors, which was a very pleasant surprise, since I was born in 1954 and did not know what to expect... I think there's a great peace has been made between Christians and Jews since the ecumenical movement of the 1950s and onwards... thank you

@@eytonshalomsandiego I am glad to hear you had a good experience at those places. I think the more we learn about each other, the better we can get along. It is possible.

Same tradition, here, too. Agree with your observations too!

To your last sentence: Those who have been there know!

Hiii,when you say once you know your know..is this in a positive way or negative? I don’t know lol and interested to understand what you two mean. ❤Thank

@@user-kg3xq1gu4x Positive!

Kinda reminds me of this concept that I'll let Fraidy (maybe) explain (or others) about Tzolafchad. He too was pondering once about women's equality. He had five daughters and, because he pondered this, there were reasons why his fate in court wasn't a positive one but his daughters got a plot of land in Israel because of their argument in favor of their dad, or something to that effect. The point I'm trying to make is that this fighting for equality (by a man, especially) isn't a first. There is also a special woman who fought for women's rights to also get educated. Sara Schenirer who started the Bais Yaakov (Beth Jacob) movement.

In the times of Moshe Rabbeinu (Moses). He was the judge in the court when it came to Tzolafchad. His daughters were arguing over why they can't get a plot of land that is rightfully theirs even if they're not a man. And Hashem found favor in their argument and granted them their rightful ownership of their land. This all started because Tzolafchad pondered. Lol.

Thanks so much! "Non Jew boomer" is a heck of a self-description! 😂

Thanks for your very kind words, they're much appreciated.

Ha ha, you get special schar for getting to the end. And my thumbs up. I did watch it to the end after all!

He's a total grifter! You can't see that?

@@bivvystridents3752 you’re looking for a different word. Grifter does not mean what you think it means. It’s a fancy word, but you’re misusing it.

Yasher koach!

Thank you so much for your kind words Jeanette. I appreciate that you took the time to write this comment.

Thank you!

This guy is a douche. So fake.

Thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. I look forward to Ysoscher’s response. A lot of food for thought here.

Thanks Abe. Been a long day, will respond later this evening or sometime tomorrow.

Waiting for this reply thanks for the input abe

SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT HOPEFULLY BETTER LATE THAN NEVER. I QUOTE YOUR CRITIQUES AND THEN MY RESPONSES IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Just a few observations on the interview. 1.The Rebbe's issue with what you refer to as the Antinomianism in Chasidus dates back to the Santz Sadegar Machlokha. While in Sadegar they believed that A Rebbe is not bound by Halacha The Santzer Rub vehemently opposed that notion. The Rebbe saw himself as a disciple of the Divri Chaim so he too was opposed to that idea. And this was his view way before he had to deal with Zionism and the Chasidisha Rebbes that he directly and indirectly accused of being influenced by the Zionist idiolgy. (What needs to be pointed out is that all of the main stream chasidisha Rebbes considered themselves anti zionist even while supporting the government of Israel and instructing their followers to participate in the elections for parliament) YES AND NO. YOU ARE CORRECT, THE OPPOSITION TO CHASSIDIC ANTINOMIANISM WAS A TZANZER INFLUENCE. HE GOT IT FROM THE DIVREI CHAIM, WHOM HE SAW AS ONE OF HIS INTELLECTUAL AND SPIRITUAL ANCESTORS. (THE OTHER WAS THE CHASAM SOFER.) NEVERTHELESS, BEFORE HE TOOK ON ORTHODOX ZIONISM IT WAS NOT A CENTRAL PIECE OF HIS THEOLOGY. hOWEVER, ONCE RELIGIOUS ZIONISTS BEGAN BASING THEIR SUPPORT OF ZIONISM ON CHASSIDIC ANTINOMIANISM, THAT’S WHEN HE BECAME A CRUSADE FOR HIM. VE’HU RAYAH, IT’S IN THE CONTEXT OF AGITATING AGAINST RELIGIOUS ZIONISM THAT HE MAKES THE RADICAL PRONOUNCMENT נשתכחה דרך הבעש”ט. You write: 2.The Satmar Rebbe never ever rejected the type of chasidus that he himself grew up with. You mention that in Satmar we didn't learn Chasidus while this is true in regard to Chabad/Polish chasidus it is not so when it came to chasidisha Seforim such as מאור ושמש,ַבאר יום חיים, יושר דברים אמת, נועם אלימלך, בני יששכר וכו' We were very much encouraged to learn these musser based chasidisha Seforim and this didn't change before or after V'yoel Moshe. TO QUOTE CHAZAL, הוא מותיב לה והוא מפרק לה. YOU YOURSELF ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION. WE WERE ALLOWED TO STUDY MUSSAR BASED CHASSIDSHE SEFORIM, BOOKS WHICH FOR THE MOST PART HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE MYSTICALLY ORIENTED TORAS HABESHT. ESSENTIALLY PROVING MY POINT THAT HE REJECTED CHASSIDIC THEOLOGY BUT KEPT INTACT CHASSIDISH PRACTICE AND EXTERNALS--INCLUDING THE STUDY OF BOOKS WHICH WERE ONLY CHASSIDISH IN NAME. THEY ESPOUSED TORAH WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN PROMULGATED EVEN IF THERE WAS NEVER A BESHT. You write: 3.The only litvish Rosh Yeshiva that the Rebbe was really close to in America was Reb Arum Kalmanowitz, the Mir RY. And until Itzkowitz and Atik came to be RY in Satmar which happened way after the Rebbe passed away, Litvish Torah was totally non existent in Satmar and you know that the Rebbe was not a fan to say the least of their Derech Halimud. YOU LEFT OUT AN IMPORTANT ONE: RAV AARON KOTLER Z”L. THE REBBE WAS A HUGE FAN AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HE GAVE THIS GUSHING EULOGY. COMMENDING HIM FOR STANDING STRONG AGAINST ZIONIST TRENDS, WHICH IN ESSENCE WAS A BACKHANDED CRITIQUE OF THOSE WHO UNLIKE RAV AARON WHERE NOT AS STEADFAST AS HE WAS. \ You write: 4.The Rebbe doesn't write נשתכח תורת הבעש"ט But rather דרך הבעש"ט. He very much believed that the תורת הבעש"ט is חיי וקיים and he qoutes sefri talmidi Bal Shem all the time. Now it's also important to note the context in which he writes this and it's not about the general idea of Zionism being supported by Chasidisha Rebbes in the name of the Bal Shem. It's to defend himself from critic by Chasidisha Rebbes that criticized him for being so openly critical against other Jews even not frum Jews. The Chasidisha Rebbes felt that emphasis on אהבת ישראל בתורת הבעש"ט extends itself even when it comes to non frum Jews and therefore it's not appropriate to speak out against them. It's on that note that the Rebbe rejected that and said A. That wasn't what the Bal Shem believed and B. We don't really know and understand the דרך הבעש"ט YOU CALIM THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TORAS HABESHT AND DERECH HABESHT AND THEN GO ON TO SITE AN EXAMPLE WHICH IS ALL ABOUT TORAT HABESHT. THE REASON THE BESHT AND HIS FOLLOWERS CHAMPIONED THE NOTION THAT אהבת ישראל “extends itself even when it comes to non frum Jews and therefore it's not appropriate to speak out against them.” THIS PREMISE IS BASED ON TORAS HABESHT, NOT DERECH HABESHT. 5. Rav Kook was born and raised as a Litvak and him being somewhat influenced from chasidus had absolutely nothing to do with the Rebbe's rejection of דרך הבעש"ט. 6. The Apter Story is with the אוהב ישראל not Reb Mier. WE ALREADY DISCUSSED NO. 5. AND NO. 6 IS INDEED MY MISTAKE, SOMETHING THAT OTHERS HAVE POINTED OUT AS WELL. 7. About the Kastner issue. To add insult to injury one can add 2 other events that in some ways are even bigger issues. A. Rav Hertzog was the one that arranged the Rebbe's certificate to enter Israel. B. It was Reb Yakkov Katz from Agudha that arranged for the Rebbe to not have to stay at the camp for migrants after he arrived to Israel. The best explanation to the Kastner conundrum is that a big% of the money came from the Orthodox community in Budahpast and Reb Pinches Fruediger specifically asked for the Rebbe to be included in the transport.

@@davidstarkpiano please see my response below

Ha ha, say more. What would you like to see covered?

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn I’m always ready to learn about how Charedi groups are carrying out their missions while dealing with the secular world, having spent much of my life at that fringe. Any chance you might do some episodes in KJ or Monsey?

@@Hadassahs-Holt Monsey is definitely doable! KJ is terrifying to film in! I don't know how they managed to make the film 'City of Joel' - I wish I could interview the filmmaker and find out.

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn That would be an interesting interview--you should ask him.

Thank you so much for your kind and touching words.

Many rabbis wore hassidic ''streimels'' which identify hassidi affiliation, but don't actually. Such as the '''Lithuanian'' Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv . My grandfather, a devoted student of Reb Yoelish, left hassidic garb after arriving in the U.S. However he walked from the lower East Side weekly, across the W'burg Bridge for Shabbos afternoons with the Rebbe. When my grandfather Rav Chaim Leib (Arye) Lerner would enter the Study Hall, the Rebbe would stand. About anti Zionism it's enigmatic that Satmar communities 1) have nevertheless taken such strong root in Israel and 2) are simultaneously so antagonistic to the State!

Had no idea that you’re his descendant. So much yichus!

Edit: this comment was meant for Gabe above about Joel Brand and Rudolf Kastner. So sorry, youtube messes up sometime. You have very special yichus! You mean Kastner, Rudolf Kastner. Brand was also a character in the rescue missions but it was Kastner who helped save the Rebbe, stood trial for collaborating with the Nazis and was assassinated in Israel.

I have several books by your Zaide, not the least of them being אם הבנים שמחה. He was a giant in his generation and led me to explore one of the major influences in his own life, the teachings of Rabbi Yehudah Alkalai, z”l. If you haven’t learned it, the books are available through Mossad HaRav Kook Publishing in Israel. Rabbi Alkalai was one of the early founders of the Orthodox Yishuv movement in the mid to late 19th century. He was a big influence on Moses Montefiore.

@@jimdeane3667 that's very interesting. Thank you.

Thanks as always!!

Yes, I do too! Alte Faiga was always a character in my periphery but I’d love love to learn more!

Agree, she deserves her own show. She was an amazing, extraordinary, and very complex woman.

And she made THEE BEST kokosh cake! I had it in Yeiled!

Why did you mama buy food with Satmar affiliate Kosher certification to begin with 😉

We pretty much only ate Satmar hechsher so we could have swapped lunch.

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn 😄

Probably it was meat? It is recommended to eat meat schechted by those who learn Tanya, because they will Bez'H have true love and fear of G-d so when no one is looking they will ensure the meat is properly kosher and not just be superficially looking the part.

So to explain why Menachem's parents threw out Satmar stuff, and would have never bought Satmar meat: it has all to do with the fights of Satmar and Lubavitch in the 80s. Also there became a ban on Satmar shechita after a certain point in Crown Heights. Until a certain point, Lubavitchers in Crown Heights most definitely ate Satmar shechita (not everyone did, but a certain segment did). Then there was a ban, and that was over. Even those talking about Lubavitchers who are strict to eat only Lubavitch shechita, that isn't true for everyone. Many will eat other shechita, but it's still a hard stop at Satmar.

Thank you Poppy!

That is something that indeed deserves some attention, his relationship to other chassidus in Williamsburg. Although, Klozenberg is a unique case because there’s also a personal angle. Klozenberger rebbe was married to Satmar rebbe’s niece before the war, and that marriage wasn’t a simple one.

@ysoscher This person you're responding to is correct. I want to take time to watch this youtube, which I haven't yet. Based on the comments it seems you two must have glorified him, which he does NOT deserve. He normalized intersect hatred & physical fighting between different chasidisher groups even using "yimach shmo". He was a talmud chochom, but he encouraged HORRIBLE sinas chinam among yidden. The frum world would've been MUCH better off had he missed the Kastner train, FEH!

@@lesaym5871 wow! שארפע ווערטער. Not cutting him any slack

@@ysoscher He doesn't deserve any slack! Like Amalek, we say they fought with Bnai Yisroel and therefore removed the fear of others starting up with us. So too he broke "red lines" that were not feared afterwards.

@@lesaym5871 oy!

Fascinating! What a weird story. Thanks for sharing it. The lengths one would go to justify life choices!

That's quite depressing.

Thank you for your kind words, they’re much appreciated.

Thank you so much, I’m so happy to see appreciation for Ysoscher who it’s clear delighted me so much in our discussion!

Weisz, Farkas and Goldstein are all names in these communities. So much vibrant community was lost, those left and their children... we are all family.

@@FriedaVizelBrooklynThank you and God Bless you!! ❤

Marshall, so nice to hear from you! I hope this segment answered some questions…

Thank you, much appreciated!

Indeed, their chesed, kindness and warmth is extraordinary.

You must have a really interesting story.

What is Zionism?

Zionism is Jewish nationalism - the belief that Jews should have a state of their own. Zionism as a political movement started in the late 1800s and reached its goal with the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. Before WWII, most Zionists were secular or socialist Jews rather than religious Jews. After the Holocaust, many more Orthodox Jews became Zionist given that 2/3 of European Jews were dead and most of the rest were refugees with no place to go. Satmar, however, did not go along with the majority and maintained a traditional Orthodox opposition to the idea of a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah.

​@@deskset7436 Youre not entirely correct. Israel has always existed, Israel which is the homeland of the Jewish people. There is extensive geological, biblical, historical evidence that demonstrates where Israel is and that Jewish people have been associated with it for centuries. In AD history Israel has been referred to as pelestien, and all original references to this 'pelestien' were connected directly with Jewish people. The name pelestien was created by a roman emperor because Jewish people did not obey his rule. WW2 is just one components of an already existing people and nation which have existed for over 4000 years, and it is all documented. Categorizing orthodox or non orthodox in the matter of who is, was and isnt or wasnt a 'Zionist' is absurd, Jewish people have always prayed for to return to Israel and there have always been a Jewish presence in Israel and the surrounding nations. Today Israels largest population is largely Sephardi and Mizrahi who are from the surrounding middle eastern/so-called arab nations. So this notion that somehow todays Israel bears no resemblence nor any connection to an 'ancient' people is absurd, there has always been a connection. If you want to use the shoah in the proper context then you should be saying that during and after the shoah the arab nations have been only too happy to take up the nazi mantle after they were defeated in euroep by the soviets. Your narrow minded western centric interpretation of the region is tiresome.

Thank you as always so much Joe. Hope you are having a lovely first daylight savings time day!

I so appreciate hearing this and am so glad you enjoyed it and learned so much from it.

Good to hear from you, Yoshi

Thank you for watching/listening!

The cat lovvvves this basket. She’s generally reserved but wherever you put the basket, there she is!

I believe they have a following in Montreal, but not a huge one. The most famous Canadian Hasidic group, besides for Lubavich, is Tosh, which is in a suburb of Montreal. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosh_(Hasidic_dynasty) Also a very strict sect.

@@FriedaVizelBrooklynThanks so much for the additional information.

What do you mean by “the other side”?

I really appreciate your counter comment to lots of the comments who took umbrage with Ysoscher's use of the term OCD to describe the Rebbe's chumras. Although I immensely enjoyed learning from Katz, I personally wouldn't diagnose or apply a value judgment. But at the end of the day, couldn't it be true at once that he was a great giant in modern Jewish history and suffered from certain obsessions? We all know that very frum people often have issues with moderating it. So we put a label on it... Is that really so negative? Btw we never made plays about the Rebbe's rescue and Dr. Fisher, I feel like we missed out. We did dance in a train/line on Kuf Alef Kuslav.

Privileged Monsey Satmar 😅

@@CRachelSPA 😂😂

So happy to hear people enjoyed my conversation with my wonderful guest...!

Ha ha… that’s a first…

I appreciate every little piece of personal story/history people have to add to the puzzle of Rabbenu Yoel.

May I ask: what was your great grandfather’s name?

Dovid Eisenberger A"H@@ysoscher

Thanks for such a sweet comment; I really appreciate it! Have a gite voch :)

Thanks for your kind (and undeserved) words. I very much appreciate it.

oops, I meant to say Undeserved. I also fixed it in the original comment

Thanks, much appreciated.

Oh you’re so so sweet thank you!

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. You must have many interesting stories of Reb Yoelish that were told in the family. What's the line through which you are his great nephew?

There was a particular incident when Lubavichers came to Williamsburg to spread the good word so to speak and it erupted in a violent confrontation (started by a Puppa Hasidic I am told emphatically!). I don’t think that there have been incidents of violence outside of this. Nowadays I find that Satmar and Lubavich are finding a new way of connecting - many Satmar nowadays travel for work or vacation and have learned to lean on local chabad houses for minyan and facilities. So a lot of Satmarers have warmed to Lubavich. I don’t think we’ve seen any violence in years and years. Still, Satmar wouldn’t eat Lubavich hechsher so maybe it still works the other way? Most foods that have a Satmar Hechsher also have an OK or other hechsher on top of it.

@FriedaVizelBrooklyn so interesting. You are creating bridges and connecting people. When a group of people look different, its hard not to feel a certain way. But exposure helps. I did not know that Satmars do not eat lubavitch meat. It was also interesting to hear about the source of the stockings.

There were several incidents of extreme violence perpetrated by satmar against anyone they perceived as a threat. All this was under the beirach moshe. The reason why lubavitch stopped eating their hechsher is because the hisachdus never condoned the violence.

I’m so glad you’re here and joining us for the discussions! Please keep an eye out for my small friday food videos which I’m trying to get going!

👍🏻 will do!

Thank you so much! I'm taking it a little slower now but hoping to publish more down the line. The hardest part is getting wonderful people on camera, because so many people are hesitant to be on camera.

Thank you so much!

toda rabba!

I so enjoy reading such comments. I have never been to "der heim" (Yiddish for "the home" which is what we'd call Eastern Europe) and I really enjoy hearing from people from that part of the world. We do have a kind of connection. Anyway, we are all learning about Jewish holy subjects here so that's our repentance...

Thanks much!

I will look into this further :)

Thank you, yes!

good question: family custom

Toda rabba!

Thank you so much Rach. So much goes into making these videos so it’s nice to be appreciated.

@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn It really shows and is much appreciated. Your videos are something very special. There’s a lot of humanity and somehow something quite extraordinary in the ordinary, if that makes sense?! 🤪

😁

Great story.

Baya Mara = באניע

I’m so glad to hear!

The former

Thanks for staying to the end!

Her name is Chloe :)