The greatest feeling in a rhythm game is struggling with a song, playing other songs for a while, then coming back to the first song only to find that you've improved enough to clear it.
Then you're able to beat even harder songs without even thinking about it. The flow state that music games can achieve where all thought goes away and it's just you and the song is special. There are not many games that can do that. Tetris is one of the only games I can think of where you can just get fully immersed into the games mechanics without thinking about anything.
@@obsidianflight8065 This, I only got into Osu! cause I saw it randomly on RU-vid and was like wow these people are really good at this, then never gave it a second thought. Then one day I found out it was free and cause I had a potato laptop at the time, I was lile, well I mean it's free and probably low spec, so I got into it and now it's one of my favourite games of all time.
Sometimes I wish I played Rhythm games more often, but then sometimes I remember I struggle on Guitar Hero's Easy difficulty. Somethings gotta click first, whether it be the hands or the brain, and neither of mine are working lmao.
its alright, we all missed notes and had terrible combo when we all started but with time, you'll get there. how many hours depends, but you'll get there
I feel like different people jive with different mechanics. DDR utterly breaks my brain while BeatSaber feels as natural as breathing, but I had a couple roommates with the exact opposite experience. So maybe you just need to settle on the right title!
This was a very interesting and informative watch, however I'll have to agree to disagree on one comparatively tiny detail. While Phigros's main mechanic is a cheap gimmick, I'd argue the game is still better for it as it allows for more creativity and ways for individual charts to stand out. Also, while it is ripe for abuse, like moving a line just before you go to hit it, which can seriously pull you out of the flow state, most charts don't do this and instead compliment it really well, though there are a few duds. I have literally no other feedback to give, the rest of the video was great.
2 years late but i really agree, the game uses this mechanics really well and it just makes every chart feels really unique and feel really good to play, phigros is probably the rythm game i enjoy playing the most
Sorry, but it seems like he probably only looked at some of the oldest charts on Phigros. 😭 I know this is two years ago, but at this point the charts have already improved significantly to the point gimmicks can be implemented less jarringly.
The level of deep understanding of rhythm games, their community and their in dustry in this video is astonishing. I REALLY want to see you take off, you BROKE it!
My favorite rhythm game series is definitely Project Diva. I find a lot of rhythm games hard to read, such as DDR and Taiko, but Project Diva is so easy to understand and doesn't hurt my eyes. I have no experience with the arcade version but the game feels wonderful on a PS3/4 controller. My biggest problem with Project Diva Future Tone specifically is that the highest difficulty charts feel almost impossible due to how fast they expect you to press multiple buttons at the same time. It really sucks because there are other charts with the same rating that don't do this but are still really challenging, not to mention much more fun than mashing buttons simultaneously with both hands.
i remember finding this game and showing my friends it on my psp, they were all about that high difficulty on taptap on ios. laughed at my weeb game at first but after trying it out they refused to give me back my psp for a while cus they where hooked.
If you feel that way about Future Tone, you should try the earlier mainline games - Future Tone is actually the arcade spinoff. It's not easy to play them these days since X - arguably the worst one - is the only one on PS4, while the rest are trapped on PSP, PS Vita, and PS3 - but they don't have rapid streams of multiple simultaneous button inputs, because that doesn't exist in the mainline. You'll get "wide notes" that require you to hit both the button and corresponding D-pad direction, but they're much simpler.
I know I'm a week late, but I appreciate the depths you went to in order to make this video as flawless as it is. I play beat saber as my main rhythm game, and the fact that you discussed part of the scoring system and how it ties in to performative play alongside boosting flow really shows your expertise here. If you do end up talking more about beat saber, just know that beat saber's scoring system is completely independent from timing, and rather relies on cut angle and how close you cut to the center of the block. This is mostly because timing is almost always going to be identical with fixed length sabers, however there is still an aspect of timing in the game, especially with the outer lanes. Since you usually have to angle your sabers to the side to hit a block in the rightmost and leftmost lanes, the center of the block reaches the cutting point of your sabers for only a moment, making a 115 strongly timing based when compared to the inner lanes, where it's less timing based. You can however combat this by swinging more in line with the highways that the notes come down, as to align your cut with the path the center of the note takes down said highway. Additionally, beat saber is largely wrist, but most accuracy players will tell you that there's a lot of arm to it as well. If you want to slice as accurately as possible, you use more arm, which takes more energy and is usually slower. If you want to swing faster, you can use your wrists, but you will likely drop accuracy a bit. Then again, there's players like cerret who have their own styles for slow, mid speed, and fast maps; I suggest talking to some more experienced players. Despite this though, beat saber, when done right, is an awesome game to play with equally awesome flow. Good video :)!
I was looking for someone mentioning the nuances of beat saber. As a top 500 player I was sad that this wasnt mentioned due to it being the only reason my scores are so bad.
This channel is so underrated and I'm glad to be supporting you. One thing though is I firmly believe that Geoemtry Dash is not a rhythm game even in average play and especially more in high level play. This is due to the fact that it's not a sight reading game but a muscle memory-based game where you need to get the timings "memorized" usually not related to rhythm in the music. Especially in high-level play or "extreme demons" is what's called in the community where deep knowledge of game mechanics, raw skill, memorizing, and being able to consistently perform the parts in a level is where Geoemtry Dash sets it apart from a rhythm game.
geometry dash is a rhythm platformer, a game that is not defined by its rhythm but by the fact that platforming and rhythm are paired together. (Geometry dash is one of my favourite games of all time)
@@kirbysuperstardeluxe9889 Yes, majority of rated levels have their music/beats SYNCED to the gameplay, but just like I said, you do not depend on the RHYTHM of the music to actually beat/progress on a level as you depend more on muscle memory and consistent practice of the timings, this is coming from a top 1042 global player and almost, if not more than 2000 hours of experience (as of writing this comment)
@@dudeguyperson2187 I have a lot more hours in geometry dash, and tbf, Extreme demons are not the majority of the game, and even in Osu! you need muscle memory to beat certain levels cuz it takes a point where it's too fast to react. People really forget that humans have react time limits, and say "nah this not rhythm game cuz people cannot sightread levels" bro, people pass easy demons in 3att like it's nothing, and if a level is a little offset everyone will complain, so what's the point of not accepting it as a Rhythm game
phigros acturally sight readable with judgement line moving but sometimes some charters like Leaf can did smth really weird and just jumpscare some people(combo broken) anyway nice video, I love it
Good God I love everything about this video. I was just playing kda in djmax and their chart even mimics the dance, I'm amazed to see such a detail discussed. I'm a burgeoning indie dev working with a team less familiar with rhythm games and this is indispensable knowledge for them. Thanks for all you do ~
I love how mental design tries to show how rhythm doctor shows you visual cues *after* they finish the 3 minute tutorial Don’t get me wrong though that game is still awesome
One rhythm game I personally love is maimai, the washing machine rhythm game. A unique feature of maimai is its circular judgement line, which allows for spins in high level charts to be performed in a very smooth fashion. The charts also take the vertical screen into consideration, often charting spins downwards, avoid putting notes exclusively on the left or right, and slightly tilting the screen so sliding is more smooth. A more significant feature is the slide. Many games have notes that require you to move your hand from one place to the other (osu, arcaea, etc.) but the slides in maimai are especially flexible. The slides vary in speed, making slow charts especially testing on flexibility, when you have to keep track of other notes as well as the slide. It also doesn't start moving until one quarter note has passed, making slow bpm charts especially tricky to learn. The slides themselves vary, and since judgement is only on the beginning and the end of the slide, they can be tangled with notes and other slides, adding to the flexibility difficulty. Fast bpm charts often forgo the complicated aspects of slides, instead opting for fast slides that really test the player's speed and endurance. An aspect that could be worked on is the (relatively) recently introduced touch mechanic. They are notes that appear on the screen instead of scrolling towards the judgement line, which sometimes make them go hand in hand with slides. A unique aspect is that their hitbox doesn't exist until the notes fully appear, making a fast judgement impossible, and instead (usually) resulting in a miss. This forces the player to decide whether to delay a hit, as it would more likely result in a hit, but can throw their rhythm off. Currently they are mostly used as filler in charts, which is a shame.
I still hope that interest in rhythm games will increase enough for sega to notice. They are the last major rhythm game producer that doesn't have any official cabinets outside of east/southeast asia
Yes! We need more rhythm games! One impressive one you didn't mention here is The Metronomicon that flawlessly incorporates rpg tur- based (beat-based?) combat with highway scrolling. Kinda like Necrodancer but way different. There are also games like Beat Blast where the melody you build is your arsenal of weapons used for typical dungeon crawling. Heck I'm willing to try out a rhythm city-builder or a rhythm souls like! This field of gaming is slowly taking shape but needs innovation! So thanks for the vid! I'm working on a rhythm 3D platformer where your input is different depending on when you are in the beat (kick, hat or snare) so I'm trying to contribute to this evolution of rhythm games!
I love this video so much, looking forward to part 2! I've only been into rhythm games since around 2015 when I tried out the japanese version of rhythm heaven megamix, but I've tried a lot since then, and I've found a good home in the rhythm doctor community. Thank you so much for highlighting it here. Also I noticed you included bits and bops on your chart, I'm glad I'm not the only person who has that game on their radar 👀
@@MentalCheckpoint Oh that's definitely very interesting ! I'm looking into ways to automate parts of my editing process using scripts myself (to the point where I've legit considered ditching Premiere and hopping onto Remotion and making my own video editing tool entirely in JS) So I'm extremely interested in knowing what kind of workflow you have. Plus I love your content, I've been wanting to make game design and devlog type of content, and i'd be more or less making the same type of videos as you if editing didn't take hundreds of hours of work per video :(
I think you should have given phigros a bigger look, I don't think you're giving it enough credit, it does more than just throw gimmicks at you. Now don't get me wrong the game is still very gimmicky but it puts an effort to make said gimmicks not frustrating and actually satisfying to nail. One mechanic that does this is the fact that regardless of where the judgment line (or lines) is, the player input is detected in an infinitely extending hit box on the notes course while you're still being judged at the location of the line. so if you're following a beat for example, and the judgment line starts moving up or down while the note speed fluctuates you don't have to adjust your hands at all, just continue following the beat and you'll get trough it. Another example is if there are two judgment lines say one at the bottom and another one at the right of the screen if two notes are coming at the same timing you can tap where the input detection overlaps only once and you'll get them both. This makes playing trough hard charts very satisfying as you cleverly find ways around the charts shenanigans. Another thing is that the game uses proper use of progression on the difficulties of a song to teach you how the chart will behave so say on normal difficulty you'll see the judgment line bounce around with easy telegraphs while on the hard difficulty it'll do something similar but with a smaller window to react. And the final thing I wanna say is that gimmicks are not inherently bad, they create very memorable moments and it's what makes boss songs so unique, in the just released story chapter of Lanota they throw a super weird gimmick at you on the boss of the chapter, and while this is one of the easier bosses they've done it made it super memorable.
100% Agreed, I’ve played tons of rhythm games over years but nothing has felt the same as the way Phigros can bend the rules while still feeling fair Phigros can get a bad wrap cause it looks like random movements, but (credit to the outstanding map charters) it doesn’t FEEL like random movements, everything flows in a way that can be predicted All of this combines to make a rhythm game that feels alive instead of static and enhances the music it’s played with through incredible charting
2:04 i made my own list of rhythm game catergories, granted, it isn't as fairly balanced as yours, or includes as many western games (so the vr section is non existent at the moment) here are the catergory lists: barline (non-gacha scoring, non pc based highway games): cytoid, cytus, cytusII, djmax technika, museca, neon fm, chunithm, dancerrail, musync, deemo, dynamix, nanoline, overrapid, rhythsia, arcaea, sound voltex, k shoot mania, otoroiha, spin rhythm xd, nostalgia, beatmania IIDX, lunatic rave 2, ez2dj, muse dash body (requires large arm swings, or large leg movements): beat sabre, dance dance revolution, pump it up, danceevolution, dancerush stardom, in the groove, not itg circular (highway rhythm games that have a circular barline): maimia, wacca, hachihachi, lanota, superbeat:xonic catch/drag (you catch beats...): osu!catch, beatblade, tile hop drums (you play drums, there are two kinds...): future tom tom, taiko no tatsujin, drummania, dtxmania, rock band full screen (lots of visuals, uses the whole screen, and unusual barlines): ongeki, beatstream, reflecbeat, jubeat, synchronica, tone sphere, zyon, a dance of fire and ice, groove coaster, just shapes and beats, osu, project diva gacha (gacha barline games, as the only gacha game not on mobile is ongeki): tapsonic top, bang dream, d4dj, idolmasters, project sekai, ensemble stars, love live, (and a whole rabbit hole of other games... i could probably list another 5 more) guitar (you simulate a guitar): clone hero, guitar hero, guitarfreaks, rockband, rock smith unpredicatble barline (yeah these are barline games... that want to make you memorise more): phigros, voez, orzmic, sevens code vertically scrolling rhythm games (4k, 7k, and don't have other gimmicks other than taps or holds): etterna, friday night funkin, musync, quaver, robeats, sdo-x, sparebeat, tapsonic bold, o2jam, dj max respect, osu!mania, pop'n music you can see i've missed many games, as this was made quite some time ago, when i still was new to rhythm games... but this was how i catergorised rhythm games... some new catergories will be added.
This is honestly one of the most impressive channels I've seen, you've only recently joined yet have already found an amazing style with brilliant content. Keep it up and I'm excited to see what else you come out with!
I seriously enjoy your videos! Im not a game designer nor much of a gamer but its so interesting hearing you talk about a feild im basically alien to, good job!!
This is some of the highest quality content on game design analysis I've ever seen on this platform!!! Also I love the voiceline from the Concerned Joe Alpha at 3:49 lol
Great video with cool animations! I'm a fan of rhythm games and I want to make one someday, so this video is very handy. I also hope it can bring more people to try these games. Great job!
When I was a teenager, DDR had just started coming to the US, and I lost tons of quarters to it, bought the games, bought the mats, and played the hell out of it. But, at that time, I was not the most physically fit person around (though it did start the process of me getting healthier). I didn't have the endurance to keep up with songs like Max 300 and such, nor did I have the technicality built up to hit a AAA on harder songs. What I did have, however, was a wonderful community of arcade goers who taught me more about the game, and introduced me to freestyling. It started with the Butterfly spins, then foot placement and movement, then drops and hand hits... and all of a sudden I had this feeling of "I'm not playing a game, I'm dancing on a stage for an audience!" THAT is a power of rhythm games. You are a part of the game, and the more you are into it, the more the game rewards you either through the game or just as an effect of being more invested in it and your improvement.
i think one of the main reasons i enjoy playing DJMAX Respect V is for its potential for performative play! it's a "keysounded" game, meaning that for most songs, the notes that make up the different patterns actually cue appropriate audio samples from the song. furthermore, in DJMAX, buttons can be tapped at any time to play whatever sound the next note on that button is supposed to play. when i'm playing charts that i'm not struggling to clear, i usually find myself looking for whatever extra buttons trigger drum/snare hits, and tapping them along with the actual notes!
You should give Everhood a shot! It would come under the “Avoiders” category you have, with a turning point halfway through where you go through the same songs, except you have to catch notes of the same colour and throw them back at the enemy. Swapping from a passive role to an active one transforms the songs massively, and it has some even better twists that I won’t ruin!
I woke up today having dreamed of a rhythm game/creature collector game. I have no idea how to develop either so this was a wonderful and informative primer
That outro speech just killed me xD You can even end up making a speech of something like "The robots just need to hear the word "like" and "subscribe" in the audio spectrum so their monotonic minds can go and include this video in their algorithm" xD I'm looking forward on how will you keep dissing the algorithms in you contents xD
Even as an avid rhythm gamer myself this video was a fantastic introduction to rhythm game design and how they work in general. Extremely well paced, informative and inclusive to nearly all of the large and mid sized rhythm game communities. Your understanding of the genre and how you conveyed it so clearly was exactly like taking the thoughts from my mind, spectacular job!
I play a rythm game called Aaero. Its so much fun! The devs are actually making a Aaero 2 which will be multiplayer and introduce custom tracks so you can chart your own song in the game. Anyway, thanks metal checkpoint for this video! Keep up the good work man
As an arcade rhythm game player, I'm impressed by the vast amount of different games included in the video. Also, I can't believe you actually listed all the footages used in the video... what a chad. 🤩
according to this video, Sunset Sandstorm by Crohn44 is a perfect rhytm game • perfect flow between song and inputs • sync based on the drums in the first half (intuitive) • badass overheat moments that make you feel pro (spams on drop) • makes side wievers think you are good at the game (using spacebar at some points, the badass spams again) • it can be beat in several different ways: easy (normal way) and hard (swag routes all around the level) • some cool and easy to understand gimmicks like square orbs in the beginning or portals on wave before drop • differenciation between parts: When you beat the first 30%, you will for sure be nervous already, and when you get to the drop, YOU WILL REMEMBER THAT MOMENT FOREVER, because you will most likely pass it in 3-4 attempts. that is an example of the correct balancing in a rhythm game. some other points maybe
Just saw the video about negotiating mechanics this morning. Binge watching your videos ever since! You inspired me a lot! Keeo it up please, awesome work! :)
i never thought id be the kind of person to enjoy or even be any good at rythm games but beat saber opened my eyes man 😂 When youre in a proper flow with a song you love coupled together with the feel good chemicals you get from exercising its just so good, i love how the game makes you want to keep moving even if youre exhausted, i cant think of any sport that really does that
Rhythm games are just appealing to the eye too. Seeing all of that going down with what the player is doing, and what's happening on the screen is just so cool. Arcades filled with rhythm games just hit different.
Simply fantastic! I loved the fact that easier levels tend to be based on vocals and drums, where as the harder levels focus on lead guitar... Totally makes sense. Those pro Japanese dance game champs look badass. I bet if I tried that It'd be a freakin' mess.
my fave rhythm games are cytus and super crazy guitar maniac deluxe series (mainly 4). both are free to play, one is on mobile, one is on pc. i love cytus' music selection, beautiful artworks and simple gameplay of tap and hold. and i enjoy playing it with just thumbs (usually called thumbplay) though i wish i could do one hand like others. i also enjoy how i feel like my fingers are dancing whenever i play the game. i also really like how songs are grouped into chapters and the secret songs/beat charts you unlock when you do certain gestures on certain songs. love that. the story too is intruiging. for scgmd4, i enjoy playing on keyboard (we used to play it as two players, one on arrow keys, the other is on number keys). it's like guitar hero (i have never played that game but it's the closest comparison). what i really like about it is the song selections are mostly rock, and that after certain combos, you get this sick animation playing. in boss battles (yep, there are boss fights too lol) they add certain gimmicks (blocking some parts, removes color of notes, changes symbols to add confusion, etc.). i also like the different guitar cosmetics you get.
I never realised how much I adore rythmn games until I watched this video I always quit games because my fingers arent fast enough to keep up but now I want to try out beatsabre or that ddr sequel because I love moving my body and dancing I know for sure what im doing when I go to the arcade next time
2:05 I _knew_ I wasn't crazy! I got some odd looks when I insisted that I love *Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice* cause it's a rhythm game, glad someone else came to the conclusion that the Souls series have some rhythm blood. I've recently been thinking about games with rhythm design in them, and have had a bit of a thirst for them, and I've come to the conclusion that some of my favourite combat games have this rhythm DNA in them, either as music or as a kind of call and response dance. On the music side, *BPM* was immensely fun (if a little light on content) where interestingly enough I found myself consistently skipping beats to keep myself in a 4/4 tempo, which might show where the game could be improved (maybe a "suspense" bonus for skipping a beat so that you can strategise where to skip it (eg before the last beat of a reload, before the last shot of the mag, and/or before landing the killing blow on an enemy)). But what I found more interesting was applying this give-and-take idea to some fighting games, namely *Sekiro, Way of The Passive Fist,* and *Absolver,* and if you've played these games you might notice the similarity that all these games use to give that feel, the _parry._ Maybe this is just showing the blurry line between "rhythm" and "flow", cause I could even lump _specifically_ the *Sisters of Battle* fight from *Hollow Knight,* but none the less I think this is an interesting train of thought. Also I vaguely remember someone saying that the reason *Dancer of the Boreal Valley* in *DS2* is so hard is that she attacks in 3/4 unlike all the other enemies who attack in 4/4, I don't know how true this is but thought I should mention this. Also also glad to see *Patapon* get some recognition it's a treasured part of my childhood.
About procedural generation: it's not that it is impossible to achieve flow / good results with procedural generation; it's just that tech isn't good enough yet. If someone threw enough effort at it, good machine learning model should be achievable even now.
The most important part of flow is connection between patterns in music with patterns in a beatmap, so a good model might produce better results than all but the most exceptional human-crafted maps.
Mental checkpoint probably won´t read this but for whoever reads it. I remember the first time I played osu! it was on december of 2012, christmass eve and that stuff, a friend of mine texted me to play a rythm game with him, i agreed. So I downloaded the game, installed it and also downloaded the "Don´t stop me now" beatmap that has the Elite beat agents music video, got in a multiplayer lobby with him, and asked him how to play just to see the game starting on catch the beat... an amazing memory for me to be honest. I don´t download beatmaps left and right because I prefer the ones that have better flow as the video mentioned, something that makes a good connection between tap and the music. Amazing video as always and rythm heaven is another of my favourite games of all time.
2:20 "Be it upward scrolling, downscroll, sideways, or *yes*." And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm on a mental hospital, because my parents think I am crazy giggling for hours thinking of this quote.
