The SECRET Why Pros Don’t Ride Titanium. 

In my opinion uci is just a club to protect industry. Just like fia is for formula 1!

I have both a titanium Moots and a Cervelo soloist. Horses for courses. Love them both but different tools. Just ride and enjoy yourself. Wheels and tires matter a lot more

Pros are advertising billboards, they advert companies via clothes and equipment. Some people buy bikes with the false belief they will go as fast as a pro because the pro rode the same kind of bike. If companies have spent a lot of money on moulds and factory set up for carbon then they are not going to reinvest in a titanium factory set up when carbon is selling well.

Because they need to hide batteries & motors in the frames.

I own a 1998 Litespeed Ultimate that rides like day 1. I'm pretty sure someone will be riding it long after I'm gone.

And of course in 1999 Lance Armstrong won a time trial stage in the TDF on a Litespeed painted to look like a Trek. Can't do that stuff anymore because they make carbon fibre frames look so distinctive nowadays.

Beta vs VHS is a comparison that’s lost on most people these days, but Beta was the superior product, VHS took the market.

In 2012 I had a ti frame, built by Jim Kish ( Kish Titanium), built up with a 10 speed mechanical groupset and all the parts I wanted. It is still my primary bike and looks and feels the same now as the day it was delivered, which is to say like new. Since then, I've watched as the bike industry has gone mad and cyclists eat it up. So glad I never bought in to the scam.

Today is the 28th anniversary of the first and only new bike I ever bought:my beautiful and rare Dawes with reynolds 531 competition tubes🤗🥳

I started to ride a titanium Merlin in 1990. Tom Kellogg designed the Merlin frame. Tom built me a custom titanium Spectrum in about 2001. I kept my Ti Bikes for many years and then gave them to friends. These frames will live on and still produce great rides for many more years.

The later German tanks were also notoriously unreliable, especially the transmissions. Some were so heavy that only a tank of similar size could recover them if they were damaged or broke down . The Russian T34 had a superb 2 stroke diesel engine.

I have a litespeed firenze and a bianchi xr4. I ride my litespeed way more. Its more comfortable, feels stronger and don't have to worry about it being damaged easily. The xr4 is very nice and it does feel a bit faster. Could be the wheels are 50mm on it compared to 38mm on the litespeed or the lighter weight of the bike. I sure have to worry way more about wear and tear on the bianchi. At the end of the day I enjoy both for what they offer and know the litespeed will outlive the bianchi and perhaps even me:). UPDATE. I ran over a construction sized staple/nail and by the time I realized I had a flat it had dug a scratch through all 3 layer's of paint on the inside of the chainstay on the xr4:(.

I purchased a specialized tarmac frame, the carbon s works version, in 2008. It had been used and ridden everyday and was third hand. The frame was cracked, but I got a local boat builder to fix it up and he said that for an 20 extra grams it was stronger than new. He explained that as long as the frame was not stressed above tolerances it would last forever. The bike transformed my racing at the time and I still use it on my indoor trainer. While I am considering a titanium frame for mountain biking and bike packing, I am not sure if I agree with all aspects of your video. I think if titanium had advantages over carbon, the pros would use it. No question. The teams look for every advantage. For recreational riders like ourselves I can see many advantages of having a titanium bike. I love disk brakes and would never go back, although rim brakes were lighter than the brand new discs, I doubt that is the case now Technology such as through axils is annoying but look at the advantages. I could alao never go back to cable gears for normal cycling and racing

I always like watching your videos. You always make arguments that make sense. Keep it up and ride safe

Great discussion totally agree. Thanks. KB

CF makes any shape directional, has superior weight/strenght ratio. It makes it best material for bikes - especially for me, as I love to ride in mountains, and I produce barely 100W average. My first passo Stelvio I've done on 15.5 kilo clunker on steel frame, steel chainrings, crankset and rims - it took me 4 hours when I was 31, my last took me 2.5 hrs on 5.5kilo Scott Addict Ltd. when I was 61. Of course there is nothing for free - You cannot treat your composite with hammer, but hey - I've got almost 100 000km on my 2007 Addict and it's still ticking, while my previous, almost twice heavier alu frame I broke a year after purchase, just riding uphill on Tenerife. If you comparing bike with tanks I'll dare to compare it to free flying models I was making them for decades for competitive sport. When we started making them of CF ( first stolen from Soviet military complex ), we brought them to superior competitive level. I can further explain Ti weaknesses, or Alu PA9 ( 7075 ) weak points, or 6061. I machine Ti and those alloys especially for bike parts nowadays. In the past for very demanding, extremelly lightweight, strong, still possibly stiffest flying models. When most problems we sorted out by modern composites, especially CF, to level where propulsion had to be cut by 30%, because models starded flying beyond airfield. 😄

another reason for the lack of titanium frames in the peloton is that the pros don't need to give a tinker's cuss how long the bike will last, a huge factor in why many people like titanium as you mentioned. however, a pro could use a fresh frame every stage of the TDF. if the UCI allowed it, each bike could be designed to last exactly one stage, disintegrating 5 metres past the finish. I remember it was someone like chapman or murray talking about formula one engines, saying that the ideal engine life was one that blew up on the second time you started it (long before the modern engine component limits that are now imposed).

In full agreement with the content of the video. A few years ago I read an article by someone in the cycling industry that a well known bicycle manufacturer were getting their frames made in China for 200 dollars each and sold in Europe and North America for 5000. $ . That was in regards to carbon . Now in the area of steel frames ,which you can also include titanium if you can’t complete the frame build within 40hrs , you’ve practically lost any profit. I ve. always compared a carbon bike to a disposable lighter.

I started off years ago(age 9, now 57) on steel frames(Schwinn/Jamis/Bianchi/Lemond) when I made the jump from a Lemond Zurich(Reynold 853) to my first titanium bike a 2002 Litespeed Arenberg. Last year I purchased a Litespeed Ultimate rim brake version with DT Swiss PR1400 Dicut OXIC wheels and not once did I actually give a carbon frame a second thought. I look at the comparison of frame materials from a manufacturers point of view, carbon frames are high volume/extremely high yield and this makes them very attractive for mass marketing. Titanium is low volume/high yield, though I am starting to see more boutique brands testing the niche titanium market, as my hypothesis on carbon frames may be starting to plateau(are the manufacturers looking for the next marketing products?), now off my soap box. Off subject, While I'm not opposed to disc brakes and prefer rim brakes, I realize rim brakes days are numbered. I'm now in the market for an endurance, longer distance bike and I'm highly tempted to replace my 2002 Litespeed Arenberg with a 2024 Litespeed Arenberg(12sp 105 mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes, but most importantly a much more age friendly relaxed riding position).

It would be very interesting to know how many frames a pro team uses over the season. Even more interesting to have pros limited to 3 frames per year.

Riding a 2018 Litespeed T2 as my do-everything commuter and love it. Timeless looks, no paint, no corrosion & light. Components can be upgraded as needs/desires permit.

Carbon is just better for racing, it is much lighter, stiffer, but can also have compliance engineered in, and there's much more flexibility for shaping it to be more aero. My best bike is a Litespeed Archon (from the look of your top tube looks like you might have the same), and I like it, I bought it because I like the idea of it and I expect it will outlast me. I've raced on it, won races on it and as an amateur it's not going to be holding me back but honestly carbon is just better for racing. The Archon is very stiff (stiffer than usual for Ti) and I have more comfortable carbon. I also rode a Ti Van Nicholas Amazon from Ireland to Indonesia (missed Brunei)... I like Ti. But I also have carbon bikes and it's easy to understand why no pro has raced on it since the 90s, just about any performance metric, carbon is better.

Good video and I agree with you, the relentless pushing of product is the reason we don't see ti frames in many cycling disciplines where they may well be more suitable - or steel and aluminium for that matter. "Race Sunday sell Monday". I do think "development" does occur at a faster rate as a consequence and, regardless of where one feels peak bike is, it probably wouldn't of got there if we didn't live in such a profligate world. Who wants to drive a trabbie when a VW golf is available? Incidentally I, as a rider for over 30yrs, was seriously looking at titanium a few years back. I didn't go there in the end but do know two cyclists who did, both had cracked frames - warrantied obviously - and both thought it was a for life purchase. I'm also friendly with the owner of a very long standing and well regarded lbs who sells and services high end bikes. He, over the years, has seen lots of cracked ti frames, even more ali frames and more again failed carbon. Seems only steel, death and taxes are forever - I know...steel fails too.

Good discussion Reg -- btw which gloves are you using here? cheers

I really like what you said about carbon being worn out after a few years.. I am riding two aluminum bikes (allez sprint Gen 1 & 2), after switching from carbon. Gen 1 for traveling, Gen 2 sitting at home or for racing. Had to change the frame once because of unrepairable dent on the seat stay. Titanium on the other hand, would have been able to sustain the impact or if not, dent repairable. I think it would make sense for me to switch my travel bike for a Litespeed

The problem with the whole “Ti manufacturers do it for the love” premise is that as soon as ABG took over Litespeed in ‘99, they started selling LS-branded carbon frames. This strategy didn’t do well, I imagine because people associated LS with Ti. LS finally saw the light and played to their strength, which is titanium. They dumped CF because it wasn’t making money, not because of love for Ti

Could not agree more, I purchased a new Reilly Titanium bike, handmade in Brighton by Reilly cycles two years ago to replace my Colnago carbon framed bike (which has now relegated to the turbo trainer), so much more comfortable, does not creak & groan on a rough road. Looks like the day I got it, not a mark on it. It also comes with a lifetime guarantee and a promise of a half price frame replacement in the event of a serious and unrepairable accident. It has rim brakes and cable gears, simple to maintain. The two carbon bikes I have owned (Colnago & Cannondale) always seemed a little fragile and easily marked.

To each their own. But I like riding metal. My last bike (alu) lasted 20 years - now it's on my turbo trainer. The trick is keeping a sharp eye out for corrosion. I'd love a Ti disc brake bike, but I've got kids at uni. So the new bike is also alloy. Not interested in carbon. Cheers

nice video👍, there's an advantage of cycling people being into new things, that's second hand market, is full of treasures like really nice ring breaks bikes, nice ring breaks wheels. thanks to that I can ride on a nice one

I have a Litespeed from 1997 with Campy 9 and bought another Litespeed in 2021. Best bike out there and the frame lasts, wouldn’t buy carbon frame for anything. Reginald new viewer, where is the video from?

Case in point: Andreas Kirschner's Ti frame manufacturer Falkenjagd 3D-printed an entire Ti bike frame seamlessly in one piece as a proof-of-concept for their Aristos series. Set him back a mere 40 000 Euro in production cost...

I have a Moots Vamoots RSL and love it, with carbon rims very smooth the only thing I'd change is the gearing so I can climb hills better

Quite right!

Which litespeed would you recomend if I where to invest in a do it all for the rest of my life bike? 97% for Road, but also the possibility to do put on some gravel wheels down the line?

You can put a way bigger brand sticker on a big square carbon tube. It’s been 50 years since I raced. I was on the wait list to get a Teledyne TI bike the first to come out on the market. They were slow in production and I never got mine. 30 years later I was still riding my steel race bike when my family bought me a Giant TCR. 20 years later I still ride the TCR. Off road I have a Santa Cruz super light 08 this bike got me hooked on disk brakes and suspension. My current favorite bikes are my German trekking bikes, a Cube and Focus both aluminum . They go anywhere and are fun to ride and I can take them on tour. Heavy like a German tank and built to last. I now like any bike I am riding. Just happy to be riding.

I have a Van Nicholas Skeiron that I bought second hand. A 4 year old frame that i have no qualms buying 2nd hand without worrying about its condition from wear and tear. I don't have a bottomless pocket and prefer a good frame that will last me for years. I don't ride very fast and am thoroughly enjoying my ride on this bike. Fyi, i have a mechanical 105 groupset, so no worries about obsolescence.

More common sense from you Reginald. I want to replace my aluminium Bianchi rim brake for a titanium rim brake, suggestions? I know Litespeed stopped making rim brake versions.

Aero is free Watts and molding composites into aerodynamic shapes is considerably easier and cheaper than hydro forming metal into aerodynamic shapes.

Looking forward to hear your opinion on 3D printed titanium bike. Or maybe just give me your assumption. Is it going to be as strong as traditionally welded frame? I read somewhere that they use titanium powder (I don't really know what they use to glue the material together on the printing process) and not the usual alloying process. Is it going to be the future of cycling? As some titanium 3D printed bike can be made aero. Like Bossi Strada SS. Or Hi-Lite/Hang Lun bike from China. Because I know the technology still so expensive now but I'm quite sure Chinese will make the cheaper version.

It's not titanium, but I'm about to resurrect my Columbus Max frame - I love that frame. I'm just getting back into riding, and I note a bunch of people are buying pro-spec gear, and then bitching about the cost. Anyway, you got a follow; good vid.

Couldn't agree more 😬

Problem with Ti is if ain't welded oxygen free, it can crack. And then it's a warranty job or an expensive repair. I'd never buy a s/h titanium frame for that reason: Often a lifetime guarantee for the buyer, but that's lost if the frame is passed on. Personally I'd still just go 853 or 953 or their Columbus equivalents.

Hi, By the way J. Anquetil, E. Merckx and B. Hinault each won 5 TDF on steel bikes. Why the actual riders do not use steel bikes ?

I have a Litespeed Icon 2007 with full Campagnolo Super Record group Set …been hammered and looks and rides like new, my go to bike, have a Colnago C60 and it comes no where near it. Titanium is top dog 👍

Interesting thing you mentioning aero bikes. You may already know this but back in the mid noughties Trek released both aero and non aero versions of the Madone 5 series. Lance Armstrong always chose to ride the non aero version of the 5.9 without the fin shaped seat tube. I'm also curious on you opinion of the 5.9. A lot of people consider it to be the greatest carbon road bike ever made. Did you ever get a chance to ride one? If so what did you think of it?

Reginald,interesting you mentioned german tanks. A problem with them was on the eastern front and other polar regions the engines would seize because the tolerances were so fine.

Lycra sleeves! Great for keeping the sun off. And not uncomfortable in hot and humid Asia.

can you please send timecode where explanation starts?

Thanks Mate !

Interesting stuff. I ride carbon steel and alloy bikes. There is use case for all. I simply don't have the budget for titanium. My go to bike is a GT carbon grade. The frame is less than a kilo, it has 25mm of vertical compliance and is stiff where it matters. Plus afford able. Titanium simply doesn't have the same envelope and cost more.

My local bike shop has a Lynksey titanium road bike with full 105 for £999.00 right now. People dont get it. I spent 26 years in advertising, I work for the NHS now but I see through the hype. Got a Sabbath Silk Route for £1600 that's a full TI touring bike and a Ribble endurance TI, oh and a Spa Elan 2 TI. Don't need another bike before the grave, never ridden carbon, never seen the point.

I Ride A 2024 Lynskey Pro GR Ti Customized With Ultegra Di2 12-Speed. Most Comfortable Bike I've Ever Ridden.

Titanium bikes were used in the pro tours in the 90s,mostly rebranded a.k.a Eddy Merckx made by Litespeed. Colnago had ti bikes too (not sure what/if teams used them) Some riders had actual Litespeed ti bikes like the Ultimate. Agree with you it is all about marketing and planned obsolescence,long live bikes made to last,most of us are not professionals with a team and sponsors to pay for everything.

After two fancy bikes with Enve carbon forks, I want to go back to a handmade steel fork. They just make the whole thing feel more alive.

I’ve owned two titanium bikes and the frames failed on each. I’m in my mid sixty’s and weigh 155 pounds, I’m fit but not an animal. Litespeed refused to honor the lifetime warranty on my bike saying that the warranty was not for my lifetime but rather for the lifetime of the frame which is taken to be eight (8) years. Motobecane did honor their warranty. So now I’m riding a generic Taiwan built carbon bike with Dura Ace 9000 components and Kysrium Elite wheels for less than the price of just a Ti frame…

Same reason why lightbulb companies intentionally produce bulbs that fail after a couple of years. You don't want to make something too durable or you'll dry up the cash flow.

Am wondering if 3D printed titanium frames are the future?

Probably the logic is that on a durable titanium bike similarly like on a steel bike all the equipment will eventually wear out before the frame itself,so one would have to think whether to invest in replacing it and saving the frame,whereas on a carbon frame the equipment on it will fail more or less simultaneously with the frame itself,so one could scrap it without any doubts.

What is a location of this video? From the signage, it seems like this is Brunei.

Agree with the marketing however Titanium also produces lot of environmental impact as recycling it is still low therefore steel wins at all fronts

I’ve been riding a titanium Litespeed Classic for 24 years. It is still amazing. I have no reason to ever get another bike

I have been riding metal bikes for 50 years which includes racing in my twenties, and I have yet to wear a single frame out. But if I was a pro today I would obviously race whatever I was told to ride which mean carbon. But I'm not a pro so I ride what I can afford to maintain.

Dude. Aero makes a massive difference. GCN showed the difference in time over a course with various generation Pinarellos. Titanium can’t be moulded into aero shapes easily like carbon can. You can 3D print a titanium frame but I wouldn’t trust it over a welded tubular frame.

Laying up the carbon takes a lot of skill. It is laborious, but takes diligence. That is why cheap Asian labour is used to keep costs down. Welding titanium requires skill too. But rolling the tubes is made by machine. The cost is the material and the skill and care in welding. Also because of the labour many titanium frames are welded and made in Asia.

What Ti bike was Reginald riding?

Carbon fiber is the ultimate road bike frame and fork material. It has the best stiffness to weight ratio and is the easiest to make into aero shapes. Formula 1 cars use carbon fiber for their body for the same reason. I also know someone who's titanium seat post snapped off from fatigue. Not all carbon is equal and it can certainly have quality control problems.

It costs $100-$500 to make a carbon frame.... by putting them under pros so the top races can be won on them those frame sell for $2000-$7000. Money talks.

Overall agree. But other metal’s are likewise durable. Titanium might be the most, but my Turbo Levo aluminum is 4 years and 3,000 miles and looks perfect. I do agree carbon not only will fail, must fail. That’s because of chemistry. Carbon is highly reactive and will oxidize, and will fail.

Actually, I am glad these riders switch to carbon fiber: their cast offs are a fraction the price of new. My Seven Cycles titanium/carbon blend cost $800 for the frame versus $6,000 for a new one. It is outfitted with a Campagnolo groupset with rim brakes. My wife has the same and we are thrilled with the bikes. Yes, I know it is not a pure titanium frame, but the bottom bracket, down tube, and all of the union segments for critical strength are titanium.

i sold my Trek checkpoint SL5 2023 model and got me a 2014 Kona Rove Ti.... best decision i did....

My Ti is class and stuck on the Tacx Neo. I need a crap cheap bike so I can get it off.

Drivers are slower today due to the lack of doping, there are strict controls. It has nothing to do with bikes.

My dream bike is a recumbent titanium with rim brakes - up yours, UCI!

One good reason: Carbon bikes weigh less than ti bikes. Lighter bikes climb faster from what I have read.

If the professionals went back to riding steel frames the fans would not be able to afford to buy one. It’s not the steel itself that is expensive but the process of manufacturing the tubing; Reynolds, Columbus, Vitus etc etc. I have a Reynolds 753 frame (Cinelli Lugs) equipped with a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 groupset and it rides like a dream . Steel is Real.

Malaysia peninsular or East?

20+ years on my Merlin Cyrene and it rides as good today as day 1 even after 10's of thousands of miles. Would never own a plastic road bike

My dream bike is a titanium bike....someday I will have one.

Drinking coffee with my alu bike by my side

I would love a titanium bikr

Pros ride in a team which is sponsored and therefore need to ride a certain bike brand. Well, that is not completely true now is it? Just look at Peter Sagan and participation in the Pierre Baguette team. An other thing: why doesn´t retired pros who are no longer sponsored by any brand still not ride titanium bikes or rim brakes for that matter? Don´t get me wrong I have nothing against titanium bikes and would love to own one. But the reason I want a titanium is not because I believe it´s better or faster than a carbon or alu bike. I just like the look of many of them, and I like the fact that there is no paint that get chipped or scratched. I also like that is practically indestructible. I have also heard many say they are really comfortable to ride, and if that is true I would love to experience that. You could argue that many carbon bikes are just as expensive or even more expensive than titanium bikes, but many are not and they also are much more available. If I want to buy a titanium bike I will have to buy it online without having the opportunity to test and experience it and first. You have to pretty invested enthusiast to get hold of a titanium bike, and it will be quite expensive. I truly believe that Pogacar would be able to win a GC on a titanium bike. He managed to win with rim brakes and disc brakes, and he even won with both brake systems using an electronic groupset. Wow! Or not wow. It´s about the rider, not the bike. The bike can of course help you and if two riders are very similar the best bike can certainly be decisive. An other thing: if a team like UAE or Ineos who both have quite a big budget, what is really stopping them from using titanium bikes if they really truly belive they are better than carbon? In a world of marginal gains I refuse to believe that it´s because of some far fetched conspiracy theory.

uh oh. Im hoping this channel does not degrade into Reginald vs Hambini

I agree 😂

Very interesting and good points made. I would have been 100% behind what you were saying if you had been riding Campy 🤣. Hard to be advocating for the top quality while riding Shimano's shoved down your throat latest incompatible marginal upgrade. Peace and love... keep fighting the good fight.

Uh, duh ya . Carbon fails so Spe, Tre, Cann, others sell more frames. Likewise gravel dust wears out components faster, tubeless sells more consumables, and hydrolic brakes service loves the mechanic.

Yet again you make some very good points and then dilute them with blatant untruths. Just like there are good steel bikes and cheap steel bikes there are also good carbon bikes and cheap, poor riding ones. You say they are pumping out several carbon frames per hour but high quality ones can take a couple of days to produce and requires precision craftsmanship just like high quality steel bikes do. Titanium bikes are very nice, I own one, but a quality carbon bike such as Time or Look is an exquisite piece of work, not plastic junk as you suggest.

Maybe because they snap/shear? Now I am going to watch this and see why...

Aluminum is lighter than titanium... not many know that

More comfortable? That haven’t heard about titanium. I do like Litespeed. I ride a 1996 Trek 5299. (Original owner)

Same thing for Shimano...

Carbon breaks, titanium doesn't. You can resell a carbon component ten times after it breaks. Titanium can literally handle going to space and back. I have a steel fixed gear/single speed. Incredibly satisfied. The doping-tech comment is a good one. I'm a competitive powerlifter, but I have no hope of going to the top, because I refuse to dope. Testing is incredibly easy to dodge these days, especially if you know when the testing is taking place, you can get off your lower dose of gear a month away from comp and you're often fine.

Best truth about bicycles video i've ever seen !!! Fuck the industrialists that only care about making money for themselves , instead of making quality for the consumer !!!

Most titanium bikes are made in china (&taiwan) and the quality is usually not bad at all (some local european titanium frame manufacturers deliver significantly more inferior quality). Merlin , Baum, Stelbel and other premium manufacturers are certainly on another level but also 10 to 20 times more expensive than their asian competition.

Carbon bikes have a much greater environmental footprint than steel or ti or al.... irrespective of how long the bike lasts, only referring to the manufacturing process.. no one talks about this...

What we prefer as individual amateurs does not matter. In addition to this video you should show the evidence that a titanium frame would be better than a carbon frame for pro cyclists performances

Are you saying that the UCI has banned Titanium bikes?

Of course the elephant in the room you didnt mention was although the pros bikes look like the ones we can buy, thats where the similarity ends.

i dont understand the slide at 9:02. thats a carbon bike?

"Just a theory" - how I dislike that phrase. Maybe you meant: "It's just a hypothesis".

Carbon fiber is simply a much better choice for highest performance bikes. Mere mortals should be better suited with a titanium frame though...