You guys went the wrong way with this topic in the first 2 minutes of the video. Talking about makeup artist is making money and if you have a job you’re making money. You guys know good and well nobody is calling anyone a shill because they are making money in the fire arms industry. We, the viewers of these free videos, are sick of people being paid to give us dishonest positive reviews on products that are junk. That’s what we are talking about when we call out shills. And then they lie to us and say they are not being pay for their opinions. It’s the dishonesty of the profession that makes them a shill not the fact that they are making money.
Also gotta mention MAC, something something bought up all those surplus rifles and cranked up the price something something raved about yhe VHS2 but immediately allagedly sold it....
We don’t care if GunTubers make money. In fact, most reasonable people want them to make money so we can continue to enjoy their content. We simply don’t want them to get paid to put out a positive review on a dog shit product when it comes to life saving equipment
I think one of the reasons people are so touchy about this is the nature of the tools being promoted and bought. Someone buys a surfboard that doesn’t work well, they’re out some money but probably not in a life or death situation. Someone buys a firearm based on a review they watched that was dishonest, they or their family could pay the ultimate price for it.
It’s not about being paid for a review. It’s about the fear of a negative review keeping a company from working with you again. It incentivizes you to be positive
Exactly . Not everything a company puts out will be perfect but they need to call it as they see it . By being honest it will push the company to do better or make improvements on the things that don't work
Ya'll might like Brownell's, but let's not forget, Brownell's is one of the companies, that handed over their customer information, that led to the prosecution, and conviction, of Dexter Taylor in NY, for just buying parts! He ends up being charged with illegal firearms, which they are not. He bought 80% recievers, and parts, and assembled his own guns, never attempted to sell, they were personal, which is covered by the 2A. In his trial, the judge said the 2A doesn't exist in this courtroom, so guess what, he's now in prison, waiting for appeal, he was not prohibited from owning firearms, and had no criminal record. Thanks Brownell's, you get to take that L, along with liberty safe!
Just looked up and read multiple articles on Dexter Taylor's case and found nothing regarding Brownell's. Do you have a link for info about Brownell's involvement?
@@russkepler5139 : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9SyNGiF3vfg.htmlsi=zVLB3kBPcATrnW7x 20 minutes in he mentions how they got his info, and mentions Brownell's, and MDX at 25 mins, as the retailers that gave the feds his info.
@@Trad-Am Dexter said he got barrels from Brownell's and MDX, but does not state that's where the Fed's got info either in the video or on his replies to posts on the video. I'm not defending Brownell's. Just not seeing the connection to Mr. Taylor's persecution in NY and Brownell's or MDX providing Customer lists and that is what put him on their radar. Thanks for the link!
No we got to this point because youtubers go on about their unwavering character and then lie making people spend good hard earned dollars on crap products
I have no issues with anyone being compensated for their work, however... This industry is different from any other in that these are tools that are used for self preservation, a matter of life and death..(so to speak.) When an item is trash and the reviewer is pushing positive feedback to promote sales because he's being paid and doesn't want to ruin their relationship with the company...that I have an issue with. That's considered a shill and is disingenuous. The consumer spends their hard earned doll hairs to find the item is nothing like said reviewer stated in their video. I truly miss the days reviews were being done for fun than financial gain. At least back then, reviewers were being honest and didn't compromise their integrity. Good topic👍
I find it easier to be more objective and emotionally disconnected from the outcome of a review, when I don't I have my own money invested in a product. At the end of the day, I think most of us try to eliminate as much bias as possible due to the nature of products reviewed having the potential of saving someone's life.
This is why I typically buy all my own firearms for review. I'll get red dots from companies, but I don't hold back on beating up the free products. Not really in it for the money. I just love making content
You know i think about it like this: do you expect a car review channel to buy all the vehicles they review? No, the company sent them that vehicle for review and then it gets returned. It can get too expensive to buy ever gun you review, and if a company offers to let you keep a gun for reviewing it, thats a perk, just gotta (legally) disclose it
I think it's because buying a bad gun could cost you your life, so people want an honest review. And when you're playing with hundreds to thousands of dollars, people can't afford to buy a crap product and then just be okay with eating the cost. Buy once, cry once is the motto, but when you do months of research and you save up enough for the gun you want and it fails, you're not trusting the people who convinced you that was the right tool for you at the moment /price point.
I'm an old soldier (70). I don't give my friendship easily, but I assure the three of you that you have it. I'm here in Northwest Alabama. Any way I can be of help to you fellers, I'm here. Shalom!!!
My hang up is when gun tubers start telling you that you need this 1500 optic or 3000 AR or this 7000 NODs because youll die or fail in shtf or self defense while getting most of their products and ammo ect for free or deep discount . While maling the average consumer feel like they are a poor ..
@@BlackoutPatriotwouldn’t it have been nice to start off adulting with those kinds of resources lol. There’d be a lot more T-rex arms companies out there…
I am also smart enough to good or bad I know it’s a sample size of one. So if they had a bad experience with a gun. It doesn’t mean all are bad or good
Getting paid doesn't make you a shill. Lying and/or hiding relevant information does make you a shill. This happens and is called out in any industry that uses "influencers" to advertise.
Sticking to smaller channels for gun/gear reviews these days. Still like some bigger channels for certain stuff, especially 2A news and discussion about what’s happening at Federal level.
Do what you're not understanding when it comes to these page Shields is that some of us only get one shot at buying a gun because we live week to week. So some of us actually depend on the things these people on RU-vid say about particular guns. We come to you and watch your video's because we're hoping you can help us spend our money. So obviously we want someone who is being honest because this is our hard-earned money that's going to buy something that we may have to depend on at some point to save our life or the life of someone we love. So I don't think it's too much to ask that you are honest and not a paid shill. And if you are going to be a paid shill at the very least tell us that you have a contract with PSA that you review their products and that you usually like them(their products) and are probably a bit biased. Its that simple. Just be honest
You guys are the giants in the industry! I decided to create a pew pew review channel in large part because of channels like y’all’s. For that, I humbly thank you for the inspirations. Y’all have a lasting legacy, as does much of “guntube.” I look forward to the next discussion!
You dotn know what you are talking about!! Theres so many lies and misinformation in this video🤦🏻 watch Focus Tripp response video to this exact video and you will be shocked to find out that this gods of yours are selling you snake oil🤦🏻
Guys gotta eat. I'm just happy the pro 2A community has a space. Granted a very regulated space. I bought a cmmg. Not only on the basis that Jonny spoke highly of it. I've seen both bad and good reviews on cmmg. I bought it cause I tried it and I liked it! You guy make your money. I got no problem with that. Just keep up the good work!!!
I agree with y’all the only thing is that a firearm is something I’m trusting to protect me and my family’s life with and other products don’t have that responsibility
This was good. The idea that I can’t run a for-profit business and have integrity at the same time is insane. This is supposed to be America. Edit: PSA is terrible. They take advantage of small reviewers. Absolute trash.
VSO! Great one for sure. Just because reviewers get “free gear” they should work for free/charity. If you don’t, you’re biased. Crazy. I Good content comes from money and time.
Hyping up garbage products has no place anywhere! Whole lot of people reviewing guns and related products that have no basic mechanical or quality understanding. If your video starts with you regurgitating the “specs” I tune out. I can get the “spec” from the manufacturer.
Do some homework before you make a statement like this man, this guys are giving alot of misinformation, Focus Tripp made a response video about this guys using this exact video
All advertising should be taken with a grain of salt, however everyone must make a living. I never look a one review. if your up front, I do not care if your paid. I just saw a optics reviewer beat a scope against a tree for 3 minutes, WHY???
With regards to the PSA jakl bullshit, they vary in quality. It's fair to say that if one was sent to a youtuber, it was probably a higher quality one that actually got double checked.
Exactly, and making an entire video trying to berate aomeone who reviwed a decent one os petty bullshit. As a reviewer one ought to know better rather than throwing insults and creating division in a realm already under attack. Divided it falls
There's 1 thing a person whos watching these videos need to know... It's up to us as the consumer to make an informed decision about what we buy. So never just take a single person's opinion these videos are free, and the info is out there. Yes theres 100% paid shills out there but if you watch several reviews you'll get all the info you need to make a good decision.
I love the fact that you folks can make money doing what your doing. The only thing I don't like, guys saying the Jakl is a great gun, when in fact they suck. People work hard for their money, many fall for what they hear on the tube.
Love your podcast. Usually listen to at work while driving the rig. You guys and many others both gun reviews and podcast. Thank you all for what you do.
Reviewers need to be honest with the audience between hard use, long term reliability vs fun for the range etc. As an example PSA AKs aren’t dimpled receivers and using swell neck rivets so don’t expect comm block reliability 30 year item. Also some guys will say no money changed hands but they won’t say money was sent to Leviathan and they paid the reviewer. Just be fully transparent and mainly I watch for entertainment. One individual isn’t going to influence me to buy something.
Anthony, I think that in the firearms industry they may have the opinion that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Guys, about the paid shill thing, part of the reason some people might be getting upset about it, is the fact that if the SHTF your life may depend on it.
I dunno. Really bummed to hear you guys misrepresent what's considered a shill at the beginning of the video. We don't have a problem with you getting paid, you deserve it. We appreciate the content. That said, we don't want to have crap products pushed on us by the companies you work for. And it certainly seems like some of that is coming out of Leviathan.
Good episode, as someone who recently got into this guntuber thing, my opinions have changed on a few things and others it has not. Some of the new guntubers I know seem to be selling certain parts of their integrity for very little return, I think that they will not be as successful because the audience now is more educated. My opinion of leviathan has gotten better as I see them providing creators an avenue to not be taken advantage of by companies. I started my channel because I felt I was recommended a lackluster product and I wanted to provide my average opinion in hopes of preventing other consumers from feeling disappointed with a purchase. I am lucky to have expedited friendships and relationships in the industry thanks to Johnny and Jared, and hoping I never disappoint them by comprising my integrity for anything less than FU money 😂
Thunder Ranch did a test on a PSA upper. They put it on an M16/M4 lower with the giggle switch. They fired it first for accuracy to get a base line and got a .5 moa. They fired 1000 rounds full auto and then repeated the accuracy test still under 1 moa. They then went back and ran another thousand or two thru it, then did an accuracy test still under 1moa . Then they ran it hard again, rinse and repeat. At 7 or 8 thousand rounds, they broke out of 1 moa to about 1.25 moa. I loved the video, but I nor anyone I know will ever abuse an upper like they did. I've bought several.
And how they need our money to keep putting a video up on you tube . I would love to be able to do what these guys do but I don't the money to make the video at my house lol
Don’t have any issues with people making money. But when people like Mr Guns and gear can go months without finding a single issue about anything gets old….
Around 34 mins nails it. All the the desparaging comments referring to guntubers as "shills" etc., is from jealous haters. Pure and simple. The internet is full of these trolls who hate their own lives. Pay them no mind and carry on.
How about how so many guntubers all of a sudden ended up with silencer central banish suppressors. Then only test rifles with those suppressors on. That is one of many examples. Or about about a rifle test or only shooting Remington ammo. It becomes a useless review of the rifle if you do t test without the suppressor or use different ammo.
It's simple. Firearms are so important in American culture that there are countless brands. People tend to be brand-loyalists and when they love a particular firearm, they hate to see anything negative about it. You can't make everybody happy, you just have to be honest with your reviews. Also viewers need to have the understanding that just because 1 person has a bad experience with a firearm, that doesn't necessarily mean that others can't have a good experience with it. My P365 might run flawlessly and your P365 might run like crap. It's on a per gun basis.
I have zero issues with someone having to send a gun back. I want to know what the company's response was, how it was handled, and how it ran afterwards. I have had issues with parts that were out of spec or new guns that something simple broke on the first time out. Instead of fixing myself i call the company and get their response. Most times they ship a replacement part and incase of the rifle they ask for me to send it in for inspection and testing. We are dealing with companies that use machines (that get out of spec) and CQ cant catch everything.
I saw a review from Honest Outlaw about the Springfield ST Victor 556, and it was a dumpster fire. But another reviewer that I trust he has 5,000 rounds through his. But I am still hesitant on buying. Because I am lucky if I can buy two guns a year
10,000+ through mine. Been cleaned once. Runs flawlessly. Only thing I’ve had to do to it was torque the castle nut back down after around the 6-6.5k round count. But, sample size of 1, I have no complaints with mine. I also have the Saint 9.6” pistol, with around 8k thru it, and it’s been good.
You guys are wrong in the first 1 minute of this podcast. You don’t even understand what frustrates us when it comes to shills. You don’t even understand the definition of a shill. 😂 holy crap. And you THREE are THE BIGGEST clock bait artists in this industry!!!! 😂
I beleive about a 3rd of the info on social media I've heard it all glocks junk akm's jam if u don't spend 2500 on a ar15 it's a budget purchase I need to spend 4k on nods that's not getting used or I'm a poor guntube has become garbage for the most part
This is why no matter what gun it is, a 600.00 turk shotgun, or a 3500.00 MP7 clone, i leave any and all malfunctions in the video However nowadays, with manufacturing being so good, i have more guns that work great, versus ones that dont.
The issue is that a firearm is something somebody's life may depend on. Whether they use it to defend themselves, protect someone else, or if the only concern that ever comes up is whether the gun is gonna go off if you drop it or randomly in the holster. Even if it's a matter of if the gun is going functions reliably after you spent thousands of dollars to harvest a once-in-a-lifetime trophy or a young hunter's first deer, the business of guns is very serious. So people get understandably upset if they find out someone is potentially promoting a shitty product because they are getting paid to or in exchange for access to new products when the end customer is dependent on them for serious purposes. And that is why people in guntube are so up-in-arms over shills.
As far back as I can remember, I pay extra for RU-vid Premium. I did this so I didn't have to watch the commercials. So, when the channels I watched started doing their own hard commercials, I got pissed off. I was paying RU-vid extra monthly so I didn't have to watch them and now I was being forced to watch them anyway. That was very short sided of me. I didn't realize that RU-vid was practically cutting the channels advertising payments to nothing due to policy changes. When I found this out, I had a new outlook on the channels hard commercials. For the channels to survive, they had to create another income stream. And to be honest, the hard commercials are for products that I am actually interested in.
I get what your saying. But it doesn't cost a lot to do you tube videos from your home . If you have to keep repeating that you need financial support a d donations to help keep the channel going im going to question why and what is your real purpose of doing the video. Jared sometimes does his videos on his back porch or in a hotel room and gets just as many views as it would be in his normal room . If you really want to speak on 2A issues on you tube for the 2A cause then you can do it for free. A lot of these guys made alot of money early on before getting de monetized that now they need the money to pay their bills cause they quit their ft jobs and bought bigger homes and toys
I view RU-vid videos as free plus I have no idea what goes into them, so if a RU-vidr is benefiting, it seems like a hell of a deal to me. I get that that isn’t fair, but that’s my natural perception.
The issue is that people don't trust salesman. And for good reason. Most are slimy and will say anything to make their commission. When reviewers are paid and it's obvious they're biased, we all get the same "used car salesman" vibes.
Paid shills are only in the firearm industry? Hell no that's not true... we call out paid shills a lot in any say entertainment industries... or the health food or lifestyle industries or many other things... yes it's find getting paid.. but a paid shill is someone that is dishonest for that money
It's pretty simple, we just want honest reviews. Don't care if you got paid or got it for free or whatever.. But being paid to do positive reviews on something that isn't actually good is deceiving and quite frankly dirty. Hence the whole Olight situation.. they actually sucked. No way around it, but they were paying big amounts for positive reviews even though they had major flaws. That's dirty. Firearms are life saving equipment, so comparing this industry to makeup or whatever other industry for that matter is a moot point. If I can pay you to say something is good when it's not you're a shill. That simple.
Gamer here coming from the PC game hardware world to the gun world. That community is also super sensitive to paid reviews. Also, the GeForce Partner Program was evidence that companies try to lock competitors out of the market.
It's a simple process you buy yourself and honestly say what you think about it, and they supply you with it you put it out openly and say what you want and think about it, the thing is that you are very straight and clear on the item 😏 🤔
I respect you boys and I can normally tell in the first few minutes if I am even going to listen to whatever guy is reviewing whatever. That said I am obsessed with precision gas gun. And I promise you folks I will absolutely be nice and sweet avoiding anything negative if nightforce provided me some glass and I except all forms of mk262 clones and proof barrels or whatever
The firearm industry recognizes that the social media space is highly biased, and punitive to the the 2A product issues. Following their own community standards/rules isn't enough, you still get cancelled after building the site up. Ask me how I know.
Dont try to sell me USCCA insurance just because your getting paid to do so. Your just setting up your fans to purchase something that most likely will not be there for them when they need it
In my unsolicited opinion, the greatest issue in this corner of the internet has less to do with the act of people taking cash for reviews and going soft on bad products(which isn’t great by itself), but has more to do with what causes the shilling; which is the industry’s proliferation of unnecessary products, arbitrary ideas and fabircated(theory crafted) use cases for all of those things through fear tactics(and instilling feelings of inadequacy) simply because the industry needs to create increasingly more niche products to keep the market growing; this is in conjunction with content creators suffering content starvation, and needing also increasingly unique and niche things to talk about to keep an audience. Sadly, all of that has to be the case for this subculture and media platform to stay afloat. It’s just the nature of the thing by virtue of this being an INDUSTRY; and one that is largely ran by unscrupulous business men and con artists. Edit: also, don’t trust a company named after a biblical demonic figure, who uses an octopus in their logo to show you they have their literal tendrils in, around and behind many things 😂
I think we all know that these are jobs for most guntubers, or if not a primary source od income, its a secondary source. The problem isnt the money, its the fact that people think some are paid for positive reviews on crap guns. The most reason example was the DD pistol. Saw a couple of good reviews before all the backlash started.
One of the things keeping kids involved with guns is Call Of Duty. It's a gateway. Plus, there's plenty of good old boys being made still to this day. I know tons of people from 18-30 years old that are into guns.
It’s not just the gun industry, it’s anything that might be called a big boy toy… it’s just that all kinds of people are gun people, not just motor heads or aquarium people or guitarists in a metal band… maybe you just see it because guns are the first expensive thing you buy after a car and a phone. Plus the internet blows up all these voices
A show talking about shills and grifters has a guest with some of the worst clickbait titles and thumbnails for his videos that say basically nothing. Great idea.
I think the largest difference would be, we're using their recommendations to purchase tools to protect our families. The BCA price was tempting. Thankfully Reno May showed BCA is the quality that you pay for.
Guys go watch Focus Tripp response video , you will be shocked to find out that this guys were not genuine in their statements, and you will learn how things actually work with gun youtubers
This guys are one of the biggest paid shields in the gun youtubers sphere 😂😂 Focus Tripp did a response video to this exact vidoe of theirs , exposing them for their lies
The whole “paid shill” thing isn’t exclusive to the gun community. I have other hobbies, home audio, mountain biking. People in those crowds also accuse creators of doing the same. I guess people just expect you all to just entertain them for free.99…
The issue is when ppl give positive reviews for known shite. Also, to say certain people’s reviews can’t be bought is incredibly naive. Monies is always exchanged on some level. Directly or indirectly