The Shroud of Turin: More than Myth? w/ Father Andrew Dalton 

That disciple saw the cloths lying flat from outside of the tomb, but that is not when he saw and believed. Only when he entered the tomb and was able to closely observe the cloth did that happen.

Pure phantasy. There is ... NO SHROUD mentioned in the gospels anyway! Read and trust the Bible. I started to think about the Shroud of Turin some weeks ago because quite a lot of RU-vid channels claim that it is 100 % sure the burial cloth of Jesus. So I did what Paul said: 1Thess 5,21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, I searched for all the relevant "burial" verses in the gospels and I did some basic Greek word studies on BibleHub (free bible study webpage - select Interlinear): Mk 15,46 And Joseph bought linen cloth [SINDONA, singular] and taking him down, wrapped [ENEILESEN] him in the linen cloth [SINDONI, singular] and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. Joh 19,39 Nicodemus also, who earlier had come to Jesus by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds in weight [about 32 kg]. Joh 19,40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound [EDESAN] it in linen cloths [OTHONIOIS, plural] with [META] the spices [AROMATON; about 32 kg], as is the burial custom of the Jews. Mk 16,1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices [AROMATA] so that they might go to anoint [ALEIPSOSIN] Jesus. (1) SINDON > "a linen cloth" or "linen cloth"? I quickly recognised that some Bible translations of SINDON are adding the indefinite article "a" although there is no one in the original Greek texts. Is it mandatory to add "a" and is it also mandatory to understand "the" plus noun singular always as one piece only? If SINDON must be understood as one large piece linen only (like the Shroud) - where the bandages (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION) came from? Why the gospel of John does not mention SINDON? Answer: In the context SINDON must be translated/understood as a general material description "linen cloth" and it means all the needed burial cloth (bandages and head cloth). Joseph for sure knew what was needed according to the burial custom of (rich) Jews at that time. And John didn't mention SINDON in his gospel because he also didn't mention the purchase of Joseph. (2) SPICES > stains/particles Nicodemus organised a 32 kg sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes. Together with Joseph they wrapped/bound the body in linen (OTHONION) WITH the spices. They completed this work according to the burial custom of Jews at that time. STURP (Shroud Of Turin Research Program) used many analytical methods and finally it was even emphasised that not any trace of spices/oils were detected!? But there must be at least non degradable stains/particles of spices (like for blood)!? And if in the meantime a failure of STURP was revealed - how the adding of spices worked with something like the Shroud of Turin? Answer: OTHONION means bandages and the spices were put between the bandages when the body - EXCEPT THE HEAD - was wrapped/bound by Joseph and Nicodemus. This was done promptly after taking Jesus from the cross. (3) SOUDARION Shroud If the complete body of Jesus was already wrapped/bound by Joseph and Nicodemus in something like the Shroud - why there was a need to add a head cloth (SOUDARION)? Also Lazarus wore a head cloth when coming out the tomb himself (Joh 11,44). And despite the burial cloth Lazarus was able to stand up and to go! Answer: The SOUDARION was added also promply to cover the head and it remained there until the resurrection. (4) WOMEN > anointing Jesus was transported to the nearby rock-tomb and was laid in there. Some of the women observed this and nothing else was done in the tomb. After Sabbath the women came with the intention to anoint Jesus. How this worked if the body was completely wrapped/bound in something like the Shroud with the spices? To get access at least to his head they would have had to remove/destroy the wrapping and uncovering a naked man underneath!? Answer: The women came after Sabbath with the intention to anoint Jesus' head (hair/face). This was an act of honour that could have been done easily by removing/readding the head cloth (SOUDARION). But it would have been impossible and illogic with something like the Shroud of Turin. So there is no need to trust a still doubtful and controversial relic like the Shroud of Turin to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus: Joh 20,29 Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’

According to the gospels' context ... Joseph of Arimathea bought all the needed burial linen cloth (SINDON). That means bandages (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION). Nicodemus organised about 32 kg spices. That means a sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes. Jesus was taken from the cross and maybe he was also washed. Then the body, except the head, was promply wrapped/bound with (META) the spices between the bandages (OTHONION) according to the burial custom of Jews at that time. The head was covered with the head cloth (SOUDARION). Finally Jesus was carried to the nearby rock-tomb and was laid in there. The rock-tomb was closed with a stone and sealed. After Sabbath the women intended to anoint Jesus' head removing and readding the head cloth (SOUDARION) but ... Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 Jesus has risen! At dawn one Sunday almost 2,000 years ago, a great event took place. What happened? Two days earlier, the completely innocent Jesus of Nazareth had been executed on a cross. In the evening of the same day, two of his disciples buried him in a rock tomb before the Sabbath began, the day of rest for the Jews and today's Saturday. Several Roman soldiers guarded the tomb. Sunday morning, shortly after midnight, it happened: Jesus Christ rose from the dead! As the first proof of this, God caused a great earthquake. Then He sent an angel to roll away the heavy stone in front of the tomb. So everyone could see that the grave was empty! The soldiers trembled in fear and were completely powerless. They could not prevent the resurrection of the Lord Jesus - but they were witnesses to it. A new day dawned for humanity - the starting point for the gospel of God's grace. Jesus predicted: “I am the resurrection and the life; Whoever believes in me, even though he dies, will he live” (John 11:25). This saving faith in Him is not merely believing that His life on earth was perfect and sinless. It also includes more than believing in His death on the cross. Saving faith includes belief in his resurrection. If Jesus had not risen, faith would be meaningless. It would be as useless as belief in any religion founder. None of them can help us because they are all dead. But Jesus lives - He has conquered death and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him!

The Sin-Bearing Messiah (written about 700 BC) Isaiah 53 1Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no [a]form or [b]comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no [c]beauty that we should desire Him. 3He is despised and [d]rejected by men, A Man of [e]sorrows and acquainted with [f]grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4Surely He has borne our [g]griefs And carried our [h]sorrows; Yet we [i]esteemed Him stricken, [j]Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5But He was wounded[k] for our transgressions, He was [l]bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes[m] we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord [n]has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8He was taken from [o]prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9And [p]they made His grave with the wicked- But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth. 10Yet it pleased the Lord to [q]bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. 11[r]He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the [s]spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors. Footnotes: a Isaiah 53:2 Stately form b Isaiah 53:2 splendor c Isaiah 53:2 Lit. appearance d Isaiah 53:3 Or forsaken e Isaiah 53:3 Lit. pains f Isaiah 53:3 Lit. sickness g Isaiah 53:4 Lit. sicknesses h Isaiah 53:4 Lit. pains i Isaiah 53:4 reckoned j Isaiah 53:4 Struck down k Isaiah 53:5 Or pierced through l Isaiah 53:5 crushed m Isaiah 53:5 Blows that cut in n Isaiah 53:6 Lit. has caused to land on Him o Isaiah 53:8 confinement p Isaiah 53:9 Lit. he or He q Isaiah 53:10 crush r Isaiah 53:11 So with MT, Tg., Vg.; DSS, LXX From the labor of His soul He shall see light s Isaiah 53:12 plunder The Holy Bible, New King James Version, Copyright © 1982 Thomas Nelson. All rights reserved

​​​@jeffreyerwin3665 John 20:4-9 (KJV on BibleHub) 4So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes [OTHONIA, plural] lying; yet went he not in. 6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes [OTHONIA, plural] lie, 7And the napkin [SOUDARION], that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes [OTHONIA, plural], but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. 9For as yet they KNEW NOT the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. Key question: What the other disciple (John) but also Peter "saw and believed"? According to verse 9 !!! when they were in the tomb it was NOT the resurrection. They only saw that Jesus' body wasn't there anymore. Therefore "saw and believed" together with verse 9 must be considered as flashforward (explanation) when John wrote this story. Such flashbacks and flashforwards are nothing unusual in the Bible. E.g. John did the same with verses 35-37 (as explaining parenthesis) in chapter 19 regarding "blood and water" to emphasise "medically" for each sceptics that Jesus was really dead: 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. 38And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. A second explanation simply can be that they "saw and believed" what the women told them shortly before: “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.” And try to remember that it was dark and the light in the tomb didn't allow to see all details from the entry. So there was nothing special like the Shrouds' image where you are biasedly convinced that it shows Jesus. But there is no Shroud mentioned in the gospels anyway. Nobody could refute my biblical claims up to this time and therefore it is not relevant for the faith in Jesus.

A recent study overseen by Dr. Liberato de Caro of Italy’s Institute of Crystallography of the National Research Council, in Bari has concluded that the Shroud of Turin dates to the first century. In a report published on the website of Italy’s Department of Chemical Sciences and Materials Technologies, de Caro outlined the “Wide-Angle X-ray Scattering” or WAXS method they used, which measures the structural degradation due to natural aging of the cellulose that makes up the fibers of the linen threads. This process, which is non-destructive, was used on a variety of historical textiles which have well-documented ages, and then compared to the Shroud of Turin; the best match was with a piece of fabric from ca. AD 55-74 known to have come from the siege of Masada in Israel. The new dating contradicts the 1988 carbon-14 test of fabric threads from the shroud, which dated the relic to the Middle Ages. Critics have long pointed out that that test was flawed, as it came from an area of the fabric that was repaired in the Middle Ages. The new study also notes that ancient textiles can become contaminated with substances over time that could distort carbon-14 results. The new findings show that the fabric of the Shroud of Turin originated at the time of Christ.

No they've been advised that it's not worth repeating the tests. There are good websites that fact check the claims made about the shroud.

​@@johnmichaelson9173 It was done in 1988, not 1978 The reason they havent tested it again is because no one has organized anything that has been deemed trustworthy. They have already seen tge fiasco that ensurs when you let random labs do what they want to the most prized of all relics. You cant just go cutting off strips from the center of the shroud near where the body image is. If they are going to do it again they have to do it right this time.😊

Its been done using two new methods they both were 2000 years

@@micc6462 Wells that's full of detail and technical information. Thanks. 🙂

Read and trust the Bible instead of mysteries. Start with the Gospel of John to get to know Jesus and what he did for you. 2 Timotheus 3 16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. Hebrew 4 12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 Jesus has risen! At dawn one Sunday almost 2,000 years ago, a great event took place. What happened? Two days earlier, the completely innocent Jesus of Nazareth had been executed on a cross. In the evening of the same day, two of his disciples buried him in a rock tomb before the Sabbath began, the day of rest for the Jews and today's Saturday. Several Roman soldiers guarded the tomb. Sunday morning, shortly after midnight, it happened: Jesus Christ rose from the dead! As the first proof of this, God caused a great earthquake. Then He sent an angel to roll away the heavy stone in front of the tomb. So everyone could see that the grave was empty! The soldiers trembled in fear and were completely powerless. They could not prevent the resurrection of the Lord Jesus - but they were witnesses to it. A new day dawned for humanity - the starting point for the gospel of God's grace. Jesus predicted: “I am the resurrection and the life; Whoever believes in me, even though he dies, will he live” (John 11:25). This saving faith in Him is not merely believing that His life on earth was perfect and sinless. It also includes more than believing in His death on the cross. Saving faith includes belief in his resurrection. If Jesus had not risen, faith would be meaningless. It would be as useless as belief in any religion founder. None of them can help us because they are all dead. But Jesus lives - He has conquered death and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him!

The wounds on the Holy Shroud are just all that much more proof that it did indeed once cover the body of our Lord Jesus! There are some not so bright people out there that want to believe that Jesus was wrapped up like some kind of mummy but this will only be found in those that have much lower than average intelligence. Thank the Lord for that. ✝

And there are people who trust a relic more than the Scripture. The Shroud is a highly controversial discussed relic and I don’t rely on so called holy objects. It didn't play any role from the very beginning of the true Church. All we know about Jesus and for faith is in the Bible. After his resurrection Jesus appeared the women, his disciples and more than 500 others. Evidence enough! And today there are people like Barrie Schwortz who, as one of the main Shroud apostle, preaches that the Shroud is the authentic burial cloth of Jesus but he does not believe that Jesus is THE Son Of God and the promised Messiah. 1 John 2 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ [MESSIAH]? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. John 3 18He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” But there is hope also for him and others. God's grace still waits for everybody. Also for people who are Shroud obsessed and who are offending people who don't agree the pseudo-science "Sindonology". 2 Timotheus 3 16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. Hebrew 4 12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. John 3,16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 8 31Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 14,6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 1Joh 1,9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purif us from all unrighteousness. John 14,23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. Gal 5,22+23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 1 Corinthians 15 (NKJB) 1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth.

he did say that on the pints with aquinas podcast, don't get funny ideas.

And its a good thing they did, or the muslims probably would have destroyed it.

As the image on the Shroud _clearly_ proves, parts of his beard were indeed yanked out. No doubt about that. And after Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus got Jesus to the tomb they immediately began to clean him up before they had to stop for Sabbath. The image shows a man that was horribly beaten, had a cap of thorns smashed down on this head, was savagely scourged, and then crucified until dead. Are you dumb enough to think that this guy was _not_ Jesus??

@@beverlyhurd8556 100% correct, some people will cling to straws NOT to believe. The shroud IS the burial cloth of Jesus, and proof of his resurrection.

@@miriam100ful Boggles the mind how many people just wish to ignore the truth, isn't it? Not just the super stupid like atheists, but those that think of themselves as Christians. Hard to understand. Well, better them than us, eh? 👍

His name was never Jesus but you are right about the beard. Not only that but Immanuel was beaten within an inch of his life, he looked like mincemeat and did not even look human. There were no nail imprints either, no nails were ever used.

@@garystanfield2274 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You mean like you just did?

Well I for one listened to the podcast and have done enough research on the Shroud to know that your “Lazarus” comment for example was uninformed at best! It’s never been duplicated, not even close and there’s a million dollars up for grabs for anyone who can so have at it!

@@marcelmorejon9023 i CAN PPROVE BEYOND A DOUBT THAT THE SHROUD IS A LIE OF ROME AND PROVEN BY SCRIPTURES ALONE WHICH CHRISTIANS KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT AND WHY THEY ARE SO EASILY DECEIVED.

nEVER LISTEN TO WHAT A PRIEST TEACHES.

@@marcelmorejon9023 NEVER LISTEN TO WHAT A PRIEST TEACHES.

Yes, you were there and know all about it! (LOL!)

@@jeffreyerwin3665 Lol, This Roman priest acts like he was there, I use scriptures to disprove this Roman lie.

@@garystanfield2274 Nonsense. Scripture does not falsify the authenticity of the Shroud. And scince proves that it is authentic. Sir, you obviously had a bias against the Shroud and are probably spouting JW propaganda.

@@jeffreyerwin3665 I'm biased against the Roman lies. Tell me how they have nail wounds in the fake shroud? You most likely believe that John Zebedee was told that Mary was his mother and so he took her home and took care of her, right? That is another Roman fabricated story, scriptures prove that it is also a made-up lie.

@@garystanfield2274 The Gospels were not written by Rome, and they confirm the authenticity of the Shroud. Sir, your ranting is nothing more than JW propaganda.

Rather sad how many dumb people there are out there that will call the Holy Shroud a fake due to their own ignorance. As the image on the Shroud _clearly_ proves, parts of his beard were indeed yanked out. No doubt about that. And after Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus got Jesus to the tomb they immediately began to clean him up before they had to stop for Sabbath. The image shows a man that was horribly beaten, had a cap of thorns smashed down on this head, was savagely scourged, and then crucified until dead. Are you dumb enough to think that this guy was _not_ Jesus??

There was no crucifixion another Roman lie.

@@garystanfield2274 Aside from any theological reservations you may have, have you ever spoken with a psychiatric or psychological professional to determine what makes you seek attention in such a desperate manner? I highly recommend it, particularly in cases of people like yourself, with no real grasp of social etiquette and whose simplistic psyches are unburdened by advanced education. Perhaps there is a free clinic in your area that offers psychological counseling?

Just because people rip your beard hair off doesn’t mean all of your beard hair gets ripped off. They could rip off a little bit, or a clump, like is depicted in the shroud picture.

@@posthawk1393 Catholics believe every lie that Rome perpetuates because of their brainwashing and ignorance of what the scriptures really teach.

Is Jesus burial cloth. Have respect, or decline comment.

the miraculous images on the Holy Shroud are the Sign of Jonah which Jesus promised for an evil generation. why would you disrespect this amazing gift from our Lord?

I pray for Jesus to touch your heart, truly this is the Shroud of our Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 and the suffering he went through to save us. He loves us so very much My Jesus Mercy

Why do you feel threatened by the gift Jesus left for us?

Try to remember that it was *proven* by many dozens of doctors, scientists, archeologists, and other highly trained researchers and *tens of thousands of hours* of examinations that the Shroud most definitely wrapped the body of a severely beaten, scourged and crucified man that was wearing a crown or cap of thorns when he died. Very few people out there, other than atheists, are quite stupid enough to believe that this was someone other than Jesus Christ.

Jesus loves His Church very much. Good luck explaining this one on judgement day😂

Sir, your objection is not valid. No one worships the Shroud. You will not find Shroud replica displayed in the sanctuary of any church. Why attack this marvelous gift that Jesus left the modern world that validates his ministry? You are very much mistaken.

Are you silly. No one is worshipping the shroud. It’s a tool for us Catholics to better know our lords sufferings and who he was. Pray the 7 swords of sorrow rosary, before you make crazy statements.

the shroud is NOT an icon, and was not made by human hand, not is it a painting. Jesus is giving people a chance to believe in him, the shroud is proof of his death and resurrection. The Catholic church may be responsible for many errors of faith but the Shroud is not one of them. "get a life with the living"? what a funny statement to make.

Smells like troll .. . . . . . .

Robo Troll

You working for Satan dude

it's not fake, what evidence are you basing your statement on?

@@miriam100ful He has no evidence, only his prejudice.