I discuss the merits of making a solid block to replace the compound slide of the lathe. Paypal donation www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr... Support through Patreon / robrenz I am "robinrenzetti" Instagram lots more content there!
Before I build a taper attachement, I hope that to get a cnc lathe, maybe a small, old Emcoturn 120... ;) If I have to do tapers I can always drop the compound on the rear end of my crossslide.
As a student studying manufacturing engineering, I love seeing your solutions to improving efficiency and accuracy. I only hope that someday I can have half the skill and ingenuity you possess. Thanks for taking time out of your busy day to produce these videos. They are very much appreciated and sustain people like me who don't have their own shops.
Watching again, Dec 2023 2nd or 3rd time. It’s great to have master references to go back to. I’m working on a friends compound (Chinese lathe) and it’s so bad I’m having a hard time knowing where to start lol. Thanks, again, for taking the time for putting these fantastic videos together. Now if you can only convince Dan Gelbart to repost his “How to evaluate a lathe”, the stars will be aligned again.
Hi Robin, First of all, thanks for the shout... ;) You deserve all the attention you get from all of us, I would gladly spend hours on your side learning all the small details that make greater parts.... This installation on your Hardinge lathe is a real improvement on an already excellent machine... Thanks again and all the best, Pierre
Man I love your vids! Scraped in tool post mount to correct deflection from torqued set screws..... Jeez, you tha man Robin. That parting op though! I feel fortunate to get to peak in your shop every time. Thanks for sharing, cant wait for the next one!
I'm one of the OXTools Gals. Love watching machinist and welders turn metal in to art and/or functioning items of use. Looking forward to many videos in the future. Creativity is always appreciated. - Annie
Hi, Not commented before but really enjoy all of your videos. Excellent thought processes and attention to detail. I particularly like your grinding tips - I work in a Grinding Facility at Rolls Royce in England grinding Turbine Blades for Gas Turbine Engines. Cheers Crispin
you left out your train dont forget your train buddy i mean Rolls Royce Gas Turbine Enginesare very cool but, your train build ,epic! cant wait for you to get back settled and in your shop again ;)cheers .
Thanks Crispin, then you possibly have used diamond rotary dressers from my previous employer (Dunnington/Wendt/Winterthur/3M). I was on the ground floor in developing the processes for making their rotary dressers and spindles. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hi. The Process we use is called 'Viper Grinding' which is a pattant shared by RR,Tyrolit, and Makino. Yes we get through hundreds of rotary dressers. Interesting to hear you worked on the development of them.
To be clear, I didn't help invent the reverse plated rotary dresser. I helped develop all OUR processes and equipment to ALSO make reverse plated rotary dressers.
Followed your lead and made a solid tool post mount to replace the compound. Wow, what a difference! The solid post, coupled with a longer cross slide I made from an MLA Toolbox casting kit really improved my poor flimsy Craftsman 12x36 lathe. Now, I can actually use a parting tool, which is great. Much better surface finish on the lathe as well. Thanks for the idea Robin!
So, my Sherline not having a compound is a good thing... who'da thunk it? Glad I decided to design an adjustable tailstock for turning tapers, instead of going to a compound. This also explains why the parting tool I just finished works so well on a lathe notorious for not parting worth beans. I put it on the back side, and started with a precision ground 2 x 2" angle block, (it IS a cute little thing), and went from there. It is height adjustable and uses the chuck edge, and rear edge of the cross slide at reference, with overlaps to rest against the edges for repeatability when installing. The best thing, (IMO), is the source of the parting blades. After looking at a lot of them, it was a blade like yours which inspired me to cut slices from a worn out Skil saw blade, regrind the carbide, (square the end, remove the 'kerf' and set the rake), and go. One 7¼" blade nets 12 parting blades, and the price is right. A 1/32" reinforced abrasive blade, (either Norton or MSC's house brand work great), makes cutting slices of blade quite easy. I then bring them to final dimension and parallel top and bottoms with a mill. It doesn't take much time, and a dozen blades last quite a while. One word of caution: do NOT use expensive thin saw blades, use the cheap think ones. Parting blades made from thin saw blades do not have the torsional strength needed, and twist when used. Not quite to the level of making flat Slinkies from SS like you did, but no chatter parting is virtually unheard of on Sherlines. There's a few things I did when I mounted a motor and the lathe which help as well. Yet, again, I have learned from a video of yours, Rob. This comes in very timely, as well. I'm about to raise the headstock on my lathe, so I will be making a block similar to this, but using for a spacer, instead of replacing the compound. Lots of good design ideas, especially since I just got an Aloris type tool post. Thanks, GeoD
I amhappy that you published this as I have a cheap Chinese lathe, and have been fighting deflection for years and did exactly ( not to your design ) what you have done, by removing the compound and replacing it with a 3" sq block bolted to the cross slide. I did not fix it solidly as you did, but none the less improved repeatably to a very high percentage. I will look at my set up and see if I can fix the rotational aspect. And of course as you pointed out the compound can still be replaced when ever screw cutting or taper operations need to be done. Well DONE and thanks
Hey Robin, Cast Iron for the tool post block, humm. Secret mechanical ninja tricks for extra low Q damping. Yes you get bonus points for the chip funnels. At first they looked like you took some material off the block to shrink its ominous presence. I didn't examine it that closely when I was visiting. I was too busy looking at all your other toys. It was nice that you took it off and showed the base details. How did you get it back into exact position for all your calibrated tools? Is it like the CNC lathe and once you set tool 1 all the rest follow it? Thanks for the kind words but its really all you my friend. People can easily see you are the real deal. All the best, Tom
Hey Tom, It repeats pretty well but yes the DRO has a global datum shift like G54 on a CNC. You deserve them, but they still have to visit my channel to get a chance to decide if they agree! Looking forward to your mini 1-2-3 blocks. ATB, Robin
You have one of the most underrated machining channels on RU-vid! Tom, Stefan and Pierre are right on directing people here. You do brilliant work and I hope you keep on producing videos. Thanks for sharing!
This video is great. I have a Hardinge HLV-H and now know where some of my cutting problems may arise from. I now want to make a tool post holder like the one you did. Thanks for pointing out the flaws in the Hardinge design.
I was literally having issues with a 60 degree compound cut in 304 the other night. I was sure it was because of my small 9" that I was seeing the deflection and issues, but it at least makes me feel a bit better that larger lathes have similar issues. That rotation back and forth gave me a *wonderful* wavy finish on the dovetail cutter I was making. I was coming up with a clamp or something to hold the entire compound down, but once I saw this I let out an audible "duh.". Love the thoughtfulness of the design - I know what im making tonight. Also, i've enjoyed your videos - they all seem to be very relevant to what i've been tackling in the shop. Thanks for all the effort!!!
Wow! Nice work! You actually made a Battleship of a lathe (aka Hardinge) more rigid and functional. Love your attention to detail in all aspects of design and machining. Thanks again for sharing.
The best part about your videos Robin is the extra and extremely well thought out design that goes into any tooling you make. I'd never have considered the need to scrape that base after it's been preloaded so it again sits flat and doesn't pull the cross slide into a banana shape. And very impressive demonstration with that cut off tool showing just how rigid everything is. My pos lathe will never be a Hardinge, but this will still help a lot. From my perspective at least you get major style points on that base so it's not a chip and coolant shelf.
Robin I have to tell you this was beyond just informative, you've given me insight to a problem that I wasn't even aware of. I liked this video a lot. Keep it up, much appreciation for the effort and time that goes into this kind of work. Cheers.
Robin, I am going to make a hand crank drive extension for my lathes. A constant battle with my watchmakers' lathes is the lateral forces exerted onto the workpiece, compromising the surface finish. This can be mostly overcome with very careful feed by hand, however, compromises feed rates etc. The dowel pins with set screws to keep the toolpost from rotating is also great. Very informative video. Thanks for the ideas.
Very interesting video. In fact I have been researching this recently. I have a couple of good old German GEMA lathes, one of them came with a quick change tool holder system (the brand does not really matter). But, what occured to me is that the quick change system introduces a weak link in itself. The inherent 'U' shape produces bending forces, etc. Parting off with this setup is out of the question. Before tossing the compound slide and its angle adjustment, I am inclined to revert to the solid block tool holder solidly mounted and center height adjusted with shim plates. The goal is to have the forces move through steel-to-steel interfaces without any additional bending or twisting forces. It used to work great on an old VDF I used to own an I never gave it any thought back then... just used the setup the German engineers back in the fifties decided as optimal, which was a solid block holding up to 4 tools and indexing every 90 degrees. Original equipment, perfect fit for the machine. Would love to hear your thoughts!
You just revealed the biggest issue I have with my mini lathe! I'm an amateur at best having learned how to use a lathe from my dad. I just can't part soft metals like silver and aluminum with parting tools without screeching and hellish sounds coming from the part, not to mention the tool biting into the piece and pulling the whole tool post down. Granted I need to readjust a lot, but the damn compound slide is a wasted and relatively useless component for daily functions. Thank you so much for shedding light on an issue I was struggling with.
IM looking at doing this to my lathe. Thanks for the information . the bottom of the solid tool post is something I didn't think about doing. But will use the idea .
Completely understand the twist imparted in the tool post mount from the set screws, but I doubt I would have thought of it. That's why I watch. Always learning. Thanks !! Brian
What a unique experience to watch your videos. Thank you for making videos and sharing your considerable skills. Your improvement of the Hardinge is especially interesting to me. I worked on an HLV-H for several years and thought it the best lathe I had ever used, but there is always room for improvement! Best wishes!
What you said makes a lot of sense. I've often thought about removing the compound. Your solution is elegant and beautifully crafted. Nice job. Something for me to think about. Good video.
While I dont think I will be scrapping my compound any time soon... it is just too useful for many of the jobs I do. I do think I will add building a solid tool post to swap on when doing higher precision work. Awesome work as always Robin!
i make foundry patterns and was thinking people might be interested in having cast iron blakes made that they can finish out on there own to suit there particular lathes. i'm not sure how but to make them for all the different sizes and how it might be the most universal think posabble . seems lots of people are wasting away quite a large hunk of iron .
As in previous years Robin, your workshop is still on my xmas list. Great to see all the new content that you are listing. We never stop learning and thank you for your knowledge, experience and sharing it with the community.
Hey RobRenz! this is the first of your video's I've seen btw. Great idea! I am a new hobby machinist with a floppy mini lathe, and have been trying to find a video for curing the slop in the compound.. this is the cure for me! I really have searched too, so I'm thankful you posted this. (yes I subscribed as well) Thanx
Rob, As an update I have one of the Sieg mini lathes . It is a lathe kit more than a tool but it fits my needs. Anyway I ended up drawing up a tool post mount like yours in SolidWorks and 3D printed a prototype. I am amazed at how much better a PLASTIC solid mount is compared to the cast iron compound. Once I get the details sorted on the model and print a final version I plan on building it out of steel or cast iron but I just wanted to say thanks again for pointing this modification out!!! Cheers! Steve
Very informative and timely given how I recently completed my compound replacement, of which I think you are aware. Design considerations on my machine were a little different than yours, I don't have a dro w/ or w/o tool offsets but was thinking about pinning the qctp to the riser in essentially the same way as you described. And one of the first things I tried was parting off with HSS and carbide and finally both are possible once again! Now I think the weak link has move down to the cylindrical dovetail boss that holds the riser to the cross slide, but nothing I can do about that until /if I ever make a t-slotted cross life replacement. Thanks for everything Robin, always exciting to see your content. 👌
Been a viewer for some time first time commenting. Very good video. I have a large lathe. A 25 in swing that is old and worn on the cross slide. The machining I do with it is normally , chuck it up and get it done very quickly because a piece of equipment broke. The machine shops in my neck of the woods a always very busy. The turn around time is usually 24 hrs or more. Most of the time what I have to do has more to do with speed than accuracy. I will take a look at maybe seeing if that would help on my lathe. Thanks
Really nice addition to the lathe, certainly keeps the parting off cut from chattering! Will be my next tooling project for sure, once I can find a suitable chunk of material, nice project for the metal shaper; a bit of oldschool chip making 😎 My lathe is a Weiler Ergodor, a late 80's German toolroom lathe, approx 12 x 19 capacity. Actually thinking of adding the little Hardinge to the shop also. I love the way you can reverse the leadscrew under power, that and other features make them a really efficient little machine for threading. They are wonderful quality lathes, you could say Rolls Royce, but I think some of the classic Dean-Smith & Grace lathes slightly pip them. Still exceptional quality like the Hardinge, but utterly, utterly beautiful machines also. The little Monarch 10ee would I guess be an American equivalent. Thank you for all your fascinating and informative videos. I'm way over in Ireland here and really enjoy all the neat tooling ideas in your video content 😎 Rotary broaching toolholder is another one for the shortlist too 👌🤓🖒 Ger
Thank you for making this video. I have a 8" SB1001 lathe with a compound that turns above a 40mm diameter ring. I swear I can see the compound flexing at times. Glad to see that it's reasonable to remove the compound from a manual lathe.
With each new video you post it becomes clear that you're one hell of a smart man Robin. I am a big fan of Tom for the same reasons. The "no compromise" outlook you all have toward your work is refreshing. Thanks for another great video.
Great Idea! Thanks for the illustration and background thinking. I guess you have to re-zero your x axis once you reinstall, so all your tool holder offsets remain good.
I always thought those tool post drill chucks were a bit silly. The concept was great, but the rigidity was lacking, at least, with a standard compound. This modification makes a lot of sense and stirs up some ideas. Coincidentally, I bought my HLV-H last year, just about the time you published this video. The more I use it, the more I find tweaks that need to be done. Since I do not have a DRO...yet...I do use the compound, but it is absolutely the weak link. In fact, my compound has a crack in it on the thin spot of the threading lever.
That's nice, I was going to build a better block for my Haas tl2 lathe to get rid of the tee nut and I really appreciate the info! I never though about the torque from the tool post mounting distorting the base but of course it would! I was just going to use 2 dowels that are already in the tool post but now I think I'm going 'borrow' your mounting system. In my opinion the only compounds that can turn a nice smooth taper without hassle are on large lathes and have power feed. I use to run a huge lathe with huge compound (I think it had around 18 to 24" of travel as it was about 3' long) and it had both power feed and its own half nut for tapered threads. It work well but was literally like having another lathe bolted to the cross slide! Thanks again.
Outstanding video Robin. I'd heard mention that you had a rigid non-compound configuration, and I'm glad to see it in action. I think Stefan also mentioned he had something similar in a podcast. I would loved to have seen you make that cast iron base. One disadvantage I see to this is that you loose the flexibility of rotating the tool post, which means you need a dedicated tool & holder for every type of operation - for instance a different tool for every chamfering angle - but maybe you overcome that with pivoting head tool (which also defeats the consistent tool offset advantage). I'd like to hear/see how you overcome the lack of tool post rotation flexibility in your individual tool collection. Again, thanks for another really illuminating video - much appreciated. David Best
Thanks David, the time saving of having many standard tools ready to cut far outweighs the few times I need to put a tool in a holder at a specific angle. and thanks for watching and commenting!
Robrenz - I can see the utility of the solid toolpost for production, but having used the Hardinge as well as the Feeler knock-off I never used one for production. Of course I never had my own shop and worked in tool rooms making jigs and fixtures or one off parts. I loved using the Hardinge, especially the threading mechanism. If I could ever afford one I wound definitely consider your style of toolpost for production work. Keep the video's coming.
Hi James, the solid tool post allows picking up any tool and knowing the diameter it is going to cut and its orientation. That is extremely time saving for one of and short run parts also. The drill chuck on the post allowing DRO control and feed is also a big help. Most of my work is one to three parts at a time. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for sharing, as a hobby woodworker I never understood the tolerances you machinist are working with before I started to watch you, Tom (both of them) Steffan, Adam an the others.
I hit the send button too soon but now I forgot what else I wanted to say thank you for your content I’m just figuring this whole thing out and I’ve only had my little mini leave for a couple months and I’m trying to document my learning through my channel and I’m learning from people like you thanks for being in her
I watched this probably on release, out of curiosity. Now that I have a Manila The in the basement to improve this takes on a whole new relevance; thank you for the wisdom.
Excellent, thanks very much for that. It's something I really should do on my noodle, but was surprised would make much difference on such a nice lathe like you have. Some other good tips, so keep up the excellent work. It's always a good day when I see one of your videos have been published.
I REALLY look forward to you posting new videos - I've watched many of them more than a few times - I think it was Tom Lipton who mentioned that you PACK these with high-value content and he's bang on. I think I learn 2-3 things a minute watching; and I'm very grateful you take the time to make these videos. Thanks. Now back to watching - nice to round out a week with a new video from you. BTW, you guys (Tom, Adam, Kieth's R & F, Tony, Stefan, the lot of yah) are gonna be the death of my wallet...I spent 2 hours today in a nearby town buying a Bridgeport and am actively looking for a lathe...so while my finances hate it, I'm grateful for the inspiration. I haven't made anything with my hands in years, but will be very soon. I appreciate these videos motivating me to get off my arse and get after it.
oh, and I found you BEFORE Tom's referral - hope that drives some new visitors to your site but I was digging for Hardinge content and you came up a couple of months ago...just sayin'.
Robin, you deserve any and all praise and comments! Your content is the best, bar none, it’s insightful, professional and of the utmost quality. We should all be so lucky as to have such a wonderful teacher, if they were all of your caliber we might be able to lead as we used to back in the days when the US had some of the best engineers in the world! Edit: That is a lot of tools, you need some place to organize all your goodies!😂😂
Thanks for the video solution........having thought about this possibility for a number of years, watching the video confirms that I probably will fare better if I do away with the compound slide and mount a solid steel block to mount the QCTP tool post on.....one that I've just bought. I need to make a new crosslide as the lathe, a Colchester Bantam, is one of those that dates back to the 1920/30 era and the crosslide is as short as it's wide which creates wear on the saddle dovetails in the middle as opposed to modern practice of the long crosslide. I considered a back tool post to mount a parting tool on but now I'll add a second QCTP on a block at the back to make it as rigid as possible while allowing different back tooling to be quickly mounted......the jury is still out on that need.
But......there is a problem if I (we) want to do screwcutting........I work with the compound parallel to the job and move it sideways as I go deeper when screwing which is different to the so say American way of angling the compound over at 30 deg etc......so the jury has gone back out to ponder on that one. I suppose with carbide insert screwcutting tools the speed is up so moving sideways like in the old way is a thing of the past.......gotta do some more looking.
@@ROBRENZ I still have to come to terms with carbide threading as I have always used HSS before.....carbide doesn't like to be run on a slow rpm for turning so threading is going to be a new challenging ball game for me. I'm starting to invest in more carbide tooling now that the price and availability, coupled with the variety of packages, has put it right under my nose . It's too tempting to ignore and old practices die hard when current must have solutions present themselves just for the asking. I found that to get the best out of my old lathe with carbide the speed needed to be cranked up a lot and dry cutting is a distinct possibility if you get the speed and feed right.
Never needed more rigidity on a HLVH lathe, but the parting tool convinced me on the fixed tool post. That was impressive. Thinking of the same for my small bench lathe. Kudos !!!
Lol, ive seen alot of his videos two or 4 times. I watch surface plate lapping videos almost nightly when im getting ready to sleep. Its better than tv shows and i can learn as i start to snooze, win win.
very insightful on all the problems that the compound can cause . im certain there are many oxen among us here . i also like that rotary broach love to see how you made it .
Hi Rob, I come from Birkenhead near Liverpool UK. Again recommended to your channel by the excellent Tom Lipton, and an excellent recommendation it was too, Thanks for all your work and advice. Geoff
Absolutely love your videos, your attention to detail is astounding! I have not witnessed in my life (57 years) any machinist that is anywhere close to your level of craftsmanship, with the exception of (Stefan Gotteswinter). Please keep the videos coming, even though it is way over the head of us common folk...lol Also was just wondering if once you had the block trammed in to zero, if drilling a taper pin to the cross-slide would allow to reattach without having to set it back to zero each time. I'm sure there is a negative to this, or you would have done it.
Thanks for the kind words. Pinning it to the cross slide would keep me from being able to fine tune the alignment without using the two set screws which would affect the flatness of the mounting surface.
wow. I've recognized the weak point but never would have thought of that on my own. great, informative video. thanks loads as always for your efforts and sharing.
Robin. I have been watching all your videos and have learned a huge amount. You inhabit a whole new world of precision and meticulousness compared to mine(!) - thanks for enlightening me to what is possible and inspiring me to try to do better. Keep 'em coming. Ian.
Great video. As a total novice with an decent analytical mind... I have always felt that the compound should be removed since it's obviously a weak link and seems unnecessary. I never had the balls to bring this up on a forum, but now I feel much better. Thanks for a great video Rob.
I can always count on you and Stefan Gotteswinter to satisfy my quest for precision in the home machine shop. I'll have to admit a bit of angst watching you semi-retire the singular feature I covet Hardinge lathes for, the compound threading retract. Once I saw the jaw dropping cutoff, well, I completely understand. Anyone who has parted off any metal immediately understood once they heard the cut.
Robin, you nailed it from the get-go, you can't fight physics, you need to fool it into thinking it's won then throw in a curved ball to re-establish the equilibrium. Sir, you are at the omega end of the skills spectrum and I am trying to achieve letter alpha. I know when you post I need to try to clear my brain (not too difficult with that task) so I can absorb what is about to come. Many thanks for sharing and giving a shout-out to the other guys. Kindest regard. Joe.
One of the few channels that I watch everything that you do. And save most of them. Thanks for showing the details that make for better quality work Robin. As a fellow chrome dome You wear it with dignity. The glare is part of the way it iz. Just think of all the money we save on shampoo!
Thank you, sure did appreciate the graphic of the tool post model as I could not quite understand the explanation without it. Great idea and excellent content.
You present an interesting albeit radical approach to increase rigidity. The manual of the original Swiss Multifix QCTP (e.g. used by Abom79 in his home shop) mentions that in case of high tangential loads the fixed part should be mounted using 2 dowel pins in addition to the big threaded post. That should take care of pushing the post away by tangential loads. The repeatability of the original Multifix is known to be excellent. Instead of removing the compound you could make it more rigid by using the tapered gib to lock it. Or with a straight gib tighten all lateral adjustment bolts to lock it down in order to increase the rigidity. Readjusting the gib is still quicker than putting the removed compound back in place. After those alternative, less radical methods your approach only has one advantage left which is the angled surfaces to make the chips fall away easily. In that respect your approach is really neat. A short bristled brush is the next best solution for those who don't want to blow the chips off.
Nice! Even to the detail of hand scraping the mounting surfaces. Most people look at something as rigid as that base you made and say, "That ain't moving." You took it to a degree better than most... (And look at that cut off!) Proof is in the performance.
I subscribe to very few, subscribed here. I could go on about this or any of the other vids such as the 2 I just finished watching, MAKING INSERT CARTRIDGES 1 and 2. I thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and will be watching many more of your videos soon. I have not made a cross slide eliminator block such as this yet but will soon for my 2 lathes. Long ago I tightened my cross slide gibs to the point of not being able to move, with the idea of completely removing them some day. Thanks for showing how you did it.
